Roundup Ready Corn & Soybean Food Plot [Archive] - Page 2

dbltree

07-08-2011, 05:55 AM

July 8th, 2011

My corn is tasseling and doing well...it's a mix of free seed corn varieties which gives it an uneven look right now.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/7-7-11Corn.jpg

Ears are starting to form and silk

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5371.jpg

Which means deer are starting to attack it!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5370.jpg

I'll have to fence this field next year to see if I can minimize damage

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_5369.jpg

Now that the heavy rains and cool weather have given way to summer, the warmer weather has the beans growing well.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/7-7-11Soybeans.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5382.jpg

These are Real World soybeans

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5381.jpg

and ag beans (free leftover seed)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5383.jpg

I'll be overseeding rye and radishes into these beans in late August

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5390.jpg

These are L&T's beans, I believe they got them sprayed this past week so they should start to look better soon.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5328.jpg

Tiffany posted on Facebook that their beans were yellow and stunted and wondered what was going on...that of course drew 100's of "comments", few of which are correct. Wet cool weather has been a problem for all crops in SE Iowa but there are some other problems that can cause this.

SCN (Soybean Cyst Nematode) is just one that could cause yellow stunted beans and is usually avoided by rotating with other crops such as corn and brassicas.

Soybean Cyst Nematode (http://extension.entm.purdue.edu/nematology/soybeannems.html)

There a host of other problems that can affect soybeans, almost all of which are most likely to appear during cool wet weather and this link has some great pictures and descriptions.

Disease and Pest Resistance (http://www.croplangenetics.com/FINDSEED/SOYBEANS/ECMD014224.aspx)

Most major seed providers have plant breeders constantly at work developing soybeans that are resistant to disease and pests and the free seed I get from those same seed companies is almost always some of the most highly resistant varieties available anywhere.

When you buy seed, be certain to look for those traits to help insure you won't be disappointed due to sick and dying beans next year.... ;)

letemgrow

07-08-2011, 07:05 AM

Your beans are looking great!! Won't be too much longer and they will canopy.

NCHILLBILLY

07-08-2011, 07:45 AM

Hey guys i have 100 acers of food plots on about 5000 acers or so i planted what the farm has there mostly rr beans they are already starting to canopy have already been sprayed one time come the first of aug i will plant purple top turnips and winter rye works great that way mixing corn and beans to me is a bad idea the idea of corn around the outside sounds good beans in the middle or half in half it if you stick with simple you will have good plots

dbltree

07-11-2011, 04:58 PM

July 11th, 2011

This is a pretty dramatic picture of fenced versus unfenced soybeans on a farm that I help manage the habitat on....this farm I might add has a constant supply of food sources year around, if not for that the beans outside the fence would be eaten to the ground!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Fencing/Fencedbeans.jpg

This is one of my own fenced bean plots that again has year around food sources to keep them happy

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Fencing/Fencedbeans2.jpg

The plot I fenced last year however, deer learned to crawl underneath and I suspect once they go under their hair may help insulate them from the fencer, I cannot say, I only know that despite tinfoil hanging all over it...they are unphased!

While some may have success with the 3 wire system, they quickly learned to jump mine so in my neck of the woods I don't use anything less then a 5 wire system. Wet weather prevented me from planting alternative food sources outside the fence that isn't effective so plan ahead to make sure they have other feed besides what's inside the fenced area.

Electric fences for whitetails can be effective but they are not fool proof! Like livestock once they figure out a way in to a lush food source...it's doggone difficult to keep them out.... ;)

Details on how to build electric fencing for deer at this link...

Electric fencing for whitetails (http://www.outreachoutdoors.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=3444)

dbltree

07-13-2011, 05:36 PM

People are getting excited about the idea of overseeding winter rye and radishes into their standing soybeans which of course leads to more questions...like how much to broadcast? More or less then when conventional seeding?

Overseeding usually results in lower germination rates then conventional seeding where seeds are covered and well into the moisture zone. They lay there until sufficient moisture is present to help them germinate and need continued moisture to help the seeds actually take root. It's an uphill battle although rye is certainly better adapted to this then other cereals but all seeds laying on the soil surface may suffer predation from rodents and birds and if rainfall is light a certain percentage of seeds may germinate but then dry out and die before getting a root into the moisture zone.

With that in mind then, generally we overseed at higher rates then with conventional seeding. While it's not imperative to sow at high rates, doing so can help insure a successful stand of winter feed in your soybean stand.

I sow at 100-150#'s per acre of winter rye and 5-10#'s of GH forage radish and do so in late August (in my area) when soybeans are yellowing and preparing to drop leaves. Broadcasting at this time means there is still some canopy to keep seeds from drying out as they germinate but the canopy will soon disappear giving the young plants plenty of sunlight.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soys1.jpg

If the beans are late maturing or were planted late, you may have to wait into September and rye can be overseeded well into October if necessary although it may not have time to produce sufficient growth to provide winter feed.

Overseeding into forage soybeans does not work well because the beans will maintain canopy until they freeze and die, so unless they have been decimated by heavy grazing you probably won't have much success. Here in SE Iowa we plant soybeans for a late season draw when deer seek out the soybeans themselves so we plant high yielding ag beans that are bred to dry down early. This makes them perfect candidates for overseeding rye and radish into.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soys2.jpg

We utilize high quality stands of both white and red clover to provide spring, summer and fall forage at minimal cost but as winter approaches deer will seek out high energy grains like corn and beans if it's available.

Normally I follow brassicas with a spring/summer crop of oats and annual clovers but it's hard to find a lower cost alternative then no-tilling in free soybean seed! These beans would not even be there if not for the lush stands of white and red clover sandwiched in between them.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soycloverstrips.jpg

Even though the soybeans will not survive the summer, they provide an economical source of summer feed and another "cover crop" of sorts and serve their purpose by keeping deer adapted to coming to one centralized feeding area. They also will help keep deer from wiping out lush young brassicas planted where the red clover previously stood, each crop type a stepping stone to the next and all intricate parts of our habitat plan....

This field is an example of multiple food sources within one field....apple orchard planted to white clover on the left, tilled area was rye/red clover tilled under ready for brassicas. Soybeans are holding deer while the brassicas get started and then will be tilled under for rye/oats/peas/radish and red clover and unseen on the right is more lush white clover...no reason for deer to ever look for another source of feed...ever!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soysnbrassicas.jpg

Even a fairly large field of soybeans can be stripped bare as cold winter weather sets in so overseeding rye and forage radish can vastly increase the carrying capacity of your area planted to soybeans. If you plan to follow the soybeans with brassicas the following summer (remember...rotate, rotate, rotate) add 15#'s of red clover when you overseed the rye and radish seed. Red clover is commonly flown into soybean fields and we can easily do the same, further maximizing the use of the area we have in soybeans.

If your budget allows for it, broadcasting some urea after the rye is up and just before a rain will help spur growth of both rye and radishes.... :way:

bryan

07-14-2011, 06:59 AM

Thanx for the info dbletree... It was just in the knick of time i was about to buy some radish and brassica seed today and broadcast it in between the soybeans... Will early september be to late of the brasiccas and radishs to grow? Hope not because i was looking forward to doing this since i read about it this winter...

dbltree

07-14-2011, 09:37 AM

KSQ2

07-14-2011, 12:19 PM

Our big field (10 acres) is planted to rr beans. We're going to no-till wheat into them, after applying liquid nitrogen and preemergent herbicide. The plan then, is to harvest the wheat next summer, work the ground, add p&k, and plant short season beans, and do the same thing all over again. My question is, will we have a problem doing this year after year? I've known farmers to plant rr beans around here every year, trying to eradicate Johnson grass, and get a crop at the same time. I haven't heard of any having problems planting beans too often.

waylonb19

07-17-2011, 11:18 AM

I have an acre plot on a ridge out back of my house. I tear up the top of the ridge to play around with planting various crops. The sides is planted into white clover to help with run-off. I planted the top which is about 1/4 acre to beans. I thought they might make it with the plot being so close to the house. I was wrong..haha. Nearly all the leaves have been nipped off of them. Curious if they will continue to grow and produce a bean? If not then I will tear them up and plant brassicas or radishes.

dbltree

07-17-2011, 03:14 PM

Curious if they will continue to grow and produce a bean?

They will continue to keep the leaves stripped so any pod production will be minimal to no-existent. I would re-plant something more productive....;)

turkeyriver

07-17-2011, 04:22 PM

If there are no weeds, or very few and you could spray them with a little R'up, you don't need to rip it up. Just wait for a rain and broadcast the seed on bare ground.

iowathumper

07-22-2011, 08:17 AM

So where do you get your Radishes from?

Sligh1

07-22-2011, 09:00 AM

Go the Brassica thread in Dbltree's management posts.
Ground Hog Radishes:
http://www.welterseed.com/productItems.aspx?id=3&org=0

billcurry

07-22-2011, 09:27 PM

poor corn...what is going on here?

these RR corn and beans-it was planted with the same thing last year I believe. Its been rather warm here the past two weeks with little rain. What is "eating" the corn? This is in central WI-Sand Country at its finest!

SEIowaDeerslayer

07-23-2011, 12:55 PM

I'd say Japanese beetles, bears, or coons.

letemgrow

07-23-2011, 01:33 PM

Grasshoppers are bad in places this year and doing that much damage.

dbltree

07-23-2011, 05:29 PM

Grasshoppers are bad in places this year and doing that much damage.

I've never seen damage like that except for deer damage but that is definitely "bugs"!

Here's a link to grasshopper ID Grasshopper ID (http://www.saskpulse.com/media/pdfs/2008_Grasshopper_Identification_Booklet.pdf)

Grasshoppers in Field Crops (http://www.ext.colostate.edu/PUBS/INSECT/05535.html)

This link shows the same damage to corn

Field Crops - Grasshoppers (http://ipm.illinois.edu/fieldcrops/insects/grasshoppers/index.html)

dbltree

07-24-2011, 03:41 PM

July 24th, 2011

Some soybean updates from the past week starting with the worst to best on some of the farms I manage as well as my own.

The fields all were planted to the same ag beans with except for a test planting of Real World beans in one of my fenced plots, so the main factor here is deer grazing pressure and some fertility issues. The first pics are from a 3 acre field next to premium cover with no ag fields planted close by. The soil has been abused by poor farming practices so we are in the process of correcting that by building up soil nutrients and rotating crops.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Beans1.jpg

These pics were taken on the 15th and the exclusion cage was not there from the beginning. Soil test called for 160#'s of K but the new landowner decided to only go with 120#'s of potash the first year. Basically these deans are done for...kaput!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Beans2.jpg

On the same farm but in a larger 8 acre field with slightly better fertility the beans look better, heavy grazing pressure but the size of the field makes a big difference.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/8acrebean.jpg

These pics from 7/18

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/7-18Height8ac.jpg

Grazing was obviously on every single plant inspected across the 8 acres!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/8acgrazed.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Bean5.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Bean4.jpg

Some varieties were already forming pods

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Bean3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Bean2.jpg

Here's Lee and Tif's beans for comparison on the 19th

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/7-19LnT.jpg

and yet another farm that I plant where the landowner and I have engaged in a long term soil and habitat improvement battle to create the best of the best and we're making some giant strides towards that end.

This view shows both fenced and unfenced beans at his farm where no corners are cut in building soil nutrients through P&K and heavy ag lime applications along with constant crop rotations....the difference is astounding!

This pic from 7/19

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/7-19Walt1.jpg

Despite nearly drowning earlier the fenced beans are now canopied and very healthy!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/7-19Waltbeans.jpg

This soil has been under a continuous rotation between brassicas and winter rye/clover plow downs all the while not cutting corners with fertilizer and lime.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/7-19Walt2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/7-19Walt3.jpg

What is even more amazing however is the fact that the unfenced beans, also in hidden fields, no crops near by...have NOT been wiped out! Planted next to strips of lush rye/red clover and perennial white clover that deer are adapted to eating, the beans have heavily grazed but not decimated as in the first pics!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/7-19Stripbeans.jpg

The beans are healthy and growth is steadily outpacing grazing!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/7-19Waltgrazed.jpg

The strip beans were planted on the previous years dead brassica strips where normally we would plant oats and berseem, so the beans in essence became the "cover crop". They are serving their purpose well....feeding deer, keeping them adapted to feeding in that plot, keeping them from challenging the fenced beans and because they are Roundup Ready it allows us to keep "clean up" the strips. They will also keep deer from decimating newly planted brassicas in adjacent strips of tilled under red clover

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Soysnbrassicas.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/7-19WaltStrip.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/7-19WaltStrips.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/7-19Westfield.jpg

These are my own fenced beans... on 7-18 they were roughly waist high

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/7-18-11WaistHigh.jpg

I fertilized with 450#'s of 6-28-28 at planting

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/AgBeans7-18.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Agbean27-18.jpg

Lush white clover outside the fence has helped keep deer from challenging the fence

These are Real World beans planted along side the ag soybeans in this plot

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/RealWorld7-18.jpg

No real noticeable difference across the plot at this stage

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Fencedbeans7-18.jpg

These are from the same field on the 21st of July with temps at 99 degrees for more then a week, heat indexes ranging from 110-121 yet the soybeans are thriving!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5520.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5521.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5522.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5523.jpg

All of the landowners I work with, including myself grow soybeans for grain production for a late season attraction. We use clovers for the main spring and summer food source and prefer high yielding beans as a part of our overall habitat program. When used in conjunction with other crop rotations and electric fence soybeans can be an extremely useful too but as the pictures reveal they can also be easily wiped out in fields under 10 acres if there are high deer numbers.

We are in the middle of the worst heat wave the midwest has seen in 5 years yet the soybeans are thriving and growing rapidly while other crops wither in the heat....another reason to plant diversified food sources within the same centralized feeding areas.... :way:

LoessHillsArcher

07-26-2011, 08:21 AM

This spring our planter was down. We had to either hold off on planting the beans and corn or broadcast and lightly disc them in... so Russ and dad got out the broadcast seeder and went to work. We plowed up alfalfa fields and brome fields, disced them up and planted the seeds two weeks later on May 15th. Here is what we're left with today.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/iowadeerhunter/Number%20two/100_2458.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/iowadeerhunter/Number%20two/100_2461.jpg

We weren't sure what these little balls on the roots were?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/iowadeerhunter/Number%20two/100_2463.jpg

Scott

07-26-2011, 08:40 AM

Those little balls are your nodules formed by bacteria that legumes use to fix nitrogen from the air to be used by the plant.

letemgrow

07-26-2011, 09:08 AM

They are looking healthy and that is the N fixers on the roots.

LoessHillsArcher

07-26-2011, 09:24 AM

Sweet, that is what I was going to guess! Neat to actually see it.

letemgrow

07-26-2011, 09:35 AM

Sweet, that is what I was going to guess! Neat to actually see it.

Pick some Partridge pea or other legumes sometime and they will have the same.

LoessHillsArcher

07-26-2011, 09:57 AM

You read my mind, that's what I was going to do this weekend. Curiousity will have me pulling up all these plants...

letemgrow

07-26-2011, 10:13 AM

You read my mind, that's what I was going to do this weekend. Curiousity will have me pulling up all these plants...

Well leave a few for seed!! :D

dbltree

07-27-2011, 07:37 AM

I'm really not sure which deer like better in the summer time...soybeans or...corn! They will eat ears, stalks and all and demolish a beautiful field of corn in no time!

This is in a large 80 acre field that has another large field of soybeans right beside it, yet deer are wreaking havoc on the corn!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/DeerDamage.jpg

Large areas of the field have been eaten and destroyed and all the outside rows have had the ears eaten as soon as they began to form.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Damagedcorn.jpg

What chance then does a small unfenced field have??

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Grazedcorn.jpg

Almost zero in my area and the corn has not even reached the stage where coons and squirrels have a go at it!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Decimatedcorn.jpg

I love growing corn but it can be problematic unless it is fenced so often brassicas may be a viable alternative. Short season brassicas rarely require herbicides and although they require heavy applications of fertilizer, the seed is a fraction of the cost. Brassicas are not subject to wind damage and can recover from hail damage...worth considering if you are having problems having any corn survive until hunting season.... ;)

dbltree

08-01-2011, 05:34 AM

August 1st, 2011

33 days not with only a 1/4" of rain yet the soybeans are thriving and considering ours are on mediocre ground at best, I believe they can stand toe to toe with most beans around the country. High yielding RR ag beans for which we paid not a cent for the seed....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5586.jpg

The unfenced beans have reached a point where they are able to hold their own despite being heavily grazed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5588.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5592.jpg

and are putting on pods like crazy now

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5584.jpg

Our plan is to overseed with winter rye, forage radish and red clover in late August, which will not only provide additional fall, winter and spring food sources but also continue our endeavor to build soils and fix nitrogen for the brassicas that will follow in our crop rotation next summer.... :way:

dbltree

08-07-2011, 08:15 PM

August 7th, 2011

Our last heavy rainfall was June 28th and there were still a lot of beans that hadn't been planted so needless to say, they got planted around the 4th of July and of course have struggled with drought and record high temps ever since.

The little beans however make tasty treats for our local deer herd and a reminder that leftover soybean seed can be used up with a fall rye/pea/clover planting. Don't use soybeans or Iron Clay Peas (really beans not peas) instead of peas but in addition too them because peas are winter hardy and beans will be toast the first frost that we get!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deerinbeans.jpg

if you have seed left in the planter or can scavenge some from a farmers drill or some such it won't hurt a thing to plant them as heavy as you wish in late August with a fall rye planting...deer will lap them up in no time!

This is a field that the farmer had planned on planting to corn but instead it grew up into a mass of weeds and grass while he waited for the rains to stop. In late June he finally no-tilled them into the jungle of weeds and eventually nuked everything with gly.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5677.jpg

They have had perhaps one good rain after planting yet have done amazingly well for the extremely poor conditions at every turn. RR soybeans are a great way to "clean" up a field and can be planted in low fields that may be wet until late June and still becomes a viable food source.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5674.jpg

Lee and Tiffany got there in, in early June and are doing well under the circumstances

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5678.jpg

No record breaking yields perhaps but at $13 bucks a bushel they will do alright and feed some deer to boot....note the heavy pod production even on the small plants.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5679.jpg

The drought is obvious....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5671.jpg

but soybeans are pretty amazing plants able to thrive in the heat and dry soils

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5676.jpg

Started moving cams around and along the strips of soybeans is a great place to monitor activity

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/ZDeerinbeans4.jpg

These RR ag soybeans are doing a great job of providing high quality forage now

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/ZDeerinbeans3.jpg

and then bushels of high energy grain this fall

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5670.jpg

There is not a plant that hasn't been grazed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5666.jpg

Yet each plant is filling up with pods...and the pods with beans!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5667.jpg

some friends of mine planted alternating rows of forage beans and the same ag beans I planted and showed me a picture along with plants from the field. The forage beans were taller but ALL beans were being grazed and deer did not show a preference for one over another. The ag beans however were full of pods while the forage beans had nary a one. They will eventually produce some pods but many will not fill and those that do will be very small beans.

The forage beans will stay green until it freezes which is unfortunate because then they will be 100% unattractive to deer right in the middle of hunting season so be sure to do as my friends did and plant both forage and ag beans if you decide to plant forage beans at all.

The ag beans produce plenty of forage and beans and work well for us

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5660.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5661.jpg

It's going to be fun to monitor cam pics of these beans in December... :way:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5659.jpg

letemgrow

08-07-2011, 08:42 PM

How are your real world ag beans looking as opposed to regular ag beans Paul?

dbltree

08-07-2011, 11:54 PM

How are your real world ag beans looking as opposed to regular ag beans Paul?

Right now they pretty much look identical so we'll see how things shape up this fall...:way:

crs740

08-08-2011, 09:19 AM

What variety of RR soybeans did you plant? I planted forage beens this year but would like to plant regular ag beans next year

dbltree

08-08-2011, 03:02 PM

What variety of RR soybeans did you plant? I planted forage beens this year but would like to plant regular ag beans next year

Mine are a mix of ag soybeans that actually were free! Seed companies give away literally semi loads of free leftover corn and soybean seed each year, usually thru Pheasants Forever and the NWTF (pays to be a member of both)

That aside just talk to your local co-op and they can fix you up with the best high yielding, disease resistant RR soybeans...usually for far less then forage beans!

Look for varieties that will mature and dry down by late summer, well ahead of hunting season...then overseed winter rye and forage radish into the standing beans just as they start to yellow in late August.

You'll end up with an unbeatable combination of green and grain that will keep deer coming to your plot from September until spring!! :way:

crs740

08-09-2011, 06:10 AM

Thanks Paul. That article you sent was a great read. I implemented hinge cutting accross 3/4 of a bench on a steep ridge to get the deer to have to come within bow range of my stand just inside the woods by a food plot. Hopefully there are no holes. I really want to try the winter rye/radish mix

bryan

08-09-2011, 05:45 PM

I know this is a stupid question but i dont know... What is the difference between ag. and forage beans?

dbltree

08-09-2011, 05:55 PM

I know this is a stupid question but i dont know... What is the difference between ag. and forage beans?

Funny you would ask just as I was about to share the following....;)

Facts about soybeans

The following information is meant to help landowners in the upper Midwest make intelligent and knowledgeable habitat decisions when considering soybeans. The information is centered on the following assumptions:

1) That your “hunting season” is centered around the rut period (first 2 weeks of November) and/or late season hunting in late December through mid January.
2) That you live in an area of the country that would expect to receive a killing freeze in early to mid October.
3) That your primary reason for considering soybeans is to provide optimum attraction during the time periods mentioned above.
4) That you have a desire to produce the maximum amount of feed from a minimum amount of acres yet provide a constant, year around source of feed at the least cost.

This information does not apply if…

1) You live in the deep south where growing seasons are long and a killing freeze may not occur.
2) You prefer to hunt only in the early season (late September to mid October)
3) Your primary reason for considering soybeans is to produce summer forage
4) You have unlimited financial and land resources

I do not sell soybean seed nor do I buy it so I can share information and ideas unfettered by profit motivations or loyalties and simply share truthful information observed in the Midwest.

Ag soybeans are bred for grain production but naturally produce copious amounts of high quality forage.

Forage beans are bred for forage and can produce more forage per acre but in the Midwest, little or no bean production.

Fact: All soybeans go through a period when they are unattractive to whitetails, in effect rendering the plot or field useless for deer for 2-3 weeks.

Why?

Soybeans go through a drying down period in which the leaves will slowly start to yellow and eventually drop, then pods and the soybeans themselves will dry . Soybeans bred for grain production typically go through this process in late August through mid September, well ahead of most Midwest hunting seasons. The “useless” time is before hunting season and the grain will then be the highly sought after attractant during November and December, key hunting periods for big mature whitetails.

Soybeans bred for forage production do not dry down naturally and continue to stay green until it freezes which in most of the Midwest is going to be sometime in early to mid October. The “useless” period for forage soybeans then is for most of us, is not only in the middle of hunting season but the rut period itself! The last thing we want is for deer to move to a neighboring field where ag soybeans are dried down and ripe for the picking.

Fact…all soybeans (commonly used for whitetail attractants) will produce pods/soybeans but soybeans bred for grain production can produce 40-60 bushels of grain while forage soybeans in the Midwest will produce significantly less if any beans at all. While grain beans are rapidly putting on developing pods the forage beans will have none and by the time they start to develop pods it’s too late in the fall for them to fill.

Fact…whitetails seek out forages spring through early fall but as high energy grain and mast crops become available they turn to them in earnest. Acorns, corn and soybeans are the most common so whenever possible we want to have those highly attractive food sources available mid October through December. Even if forage soybeans have developed some beans, whitetails will refuse to feed on them until they have fully dried down which is often well after the peak rut period has passed.

Fact…whitetails typically can only utilize roughly 17% protein in their daily intake, clovers and common ag soybeans can easily meet that requirement with CP in the low to upper 20% range.

Fact…we cannot grow big deer, only age and genetics can accomplish that so offering more/higher protein does not translate to bigger antlers..if only it were that easy!

Fact…providing year around sources of high quality forages and grains in centralized, secluded, screened feeding areas, adjacent to premium bedding areas is extremely important to holding big whitetails on our property. This requires that we plant multiple food sources in those areas with perennial white clovers being a crucial corner stone in accomplishing this feat. Any combination of crops and natural food sources that can provide for all of a whitetails needs every day of the year is suitable.

Fact…the majority of landowners have limited acres with which to accomplish the about mentioned requirements which means they must be resourceful in putting together the right combinations. Ag soybeans dry down at the perfect time in late summer to allow us to overseed winter rye and forage radishes into them. As they yellow and dry down the rye and radish plants begin to grow and provide forage until the following spring. Combining the high yielding grain production of the ag soybeans with the rye and radishes then increases our overall yield and leaves not a day when deer our will not find food sources in that feeding area.

Forage soybeans do not dry down prior to hunting season so they stay canopied (unless decimated by over grazing) making over seeding impossible. Since they have very low grain yields, any beans will be quickly stripped leaving the plot bare and useless for the remainder of the winter until replanted the following spring. Other crops can of course be planted adjacent to keep deer coming to the plot but on limited acreage this transfers all the feeding to the remaining food sources, again limiting our ability to actually feed deer all year long.

Fact…given a hidden, secluded safe feeding area, whitetails will quickly adapt to feeding there an eventually will eat almost anything planted there.

Fact…if the feeding area becomes void of feed and an adjacent neighbors field has standing corn or soybeans whitetails will take advantage of that, adapting them to visiting the neighbors property making it imperative that we provide food sources that won't "run dry" because of low yields.

Fact…a bushel of soybeans weighs 60#’s so ag soybeans have the potential to provide nearly a ton of highly attractive feed per acre more then forage beans…critical in holding whitetails on our property during the fall and winter months.

Fact..the average 150# whitetail consumes 3-6#’s of feed per day much of which is natural forage but at 2#’s per day one acre of high yielding ag soybeans producing 50 bushel per acre (3000#’s) could provide 1500 days worth of feed. 20 whitetails consuming 40#’s per day could in theory have 75 days worth of feed on one acre of ag beans. Forage beans producing 10-20 bushel could feed 20 whitetails for less then two weeks, at which point they will leave to seek out other high energy food sources.

Because we can over seed the ag beans with winter rye we can maximize the usefulness of our plots, increase the carrying capacity, extend the grazing period to cover the entire winter and prevent whitetails from leaving our property.

Fact…with few exceptions, when ag soybeans and forage soybeans are planted in the same field, whitetails will eat all the soybeans with little preference for one over another. Take either one away and they will continue to feed happily on either.

Fact…soybeans (like all crops) should be rotated yearly so it is important to plan to have other nitrogen using crops such as corn, brassicas or cereal grains incorporated into our program. When at all possible include these crops within the same plot or field rather then in other fields so that deer become adapted to always traveling to the same feeding area 24/7, 365 days a year.

Planting in a strip crop fashion will help keep deer from decimating soybeans , lush white clover or rye and red clover will often allow soybeans to grow with out fencing.

Fact…forage soybeans have the ability to produce a tremendous amount of high quality forage but ag soybeans overseeded with rye have the ability to produce more high quality feed per acre over a longer period of time.

There are always exceptions to every rule and each landowner may experience unique situations regardless of which crops are planted so the facts given are just basic information to give landowners some insight in helping them make the choices that are right for them. No one thing is right for everyone and there are countless ways to create a great habitat program.

In the deep south where a killing freeze may not occur during hunting season, forage soybeans will continue to provide a source of forage and will produce beans because of the longer growing season. In the far north they may freeze out in mid September and may produce no beans at all leaving no draw at all during hunting season.

RR ag soybeans typically run $45-60 a bag and in most agricultural areas are available locally so shipping is not involved while forage soybeans may be 25-50% higher plus shipping costs. In most of the corn belt RR soybean seed is available through PF, NWTF and the DNR, for .50 cents to $10 a bag for handling.

Seed companies give leftover seed away yearly having no use for it after the growing season, giving it away for wildlife plantings allows them to write it off so don’t overlook the possibility of planting your RR beans for almost nothing….;)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5664.jpg

scottonbuck

08-09-2011, 07:53 PM

Scott

08-09-2011, 08:01 PM

I know this is a stupid question but i dont know... What is the difference between ag. and forage beans?

I just don't see the advantage to forage beans. I think there is more to gain from ag beans if you have a decent size plot.

letemgrow

08-09-2011, 08:07 PM

I just don't see the advantage to forage beans. I think there is more to gain from ag beans if you have a decent size plot.

The only advantage I can see to forage beans is if there is heavy browse pressure. They can withstand that better than ag beans, but for the upper midwest, ag beans are the only way to go IMO.

Daver

08-09-2011, 08:46 PM

The only advantage I can see to forage beans is if there is heavy browse pressure. They can withstand that better than ag beans, but for the upper midwest, ag beans are the only way to go IMO.

If you were planting a bean plot primarily to provide summer forage then I could see where you would think about forage beans. But, since I too get free, leftover ag beans from various sources there really is no question in my mind which ones are "better". :D Ag beans all the way!!

Sligh1

08-09-2011, 10:32 PM

Paul, I had some RR beans drilled in my plot July 5 but as you know we didnt receive any rain untill this past weekend. The beans are just now coming up good/decent. What are the odds of the beans producing grain? I already plan on overseeding with Rye in Sept. I figure worst case scenario it will make a killer youth season plot since the beans will still be fresh and green. I hope to get some beans yet but I really have no idea what to expect.

I planted some beans about July 25 last year after cows whipped out my bean plot that I planted in May. I honestly would say my original planting would have yielded ROUGHLY 50 bushels to the acre. After I re-planted them we did have good rain after July 25 though. This year is a different animal, that's for sure (in SE IA). "IF" you get some good rain you could have some pods. BUT you have other variables.... Is the ground fertilized like crazy??? Did you plant a big enough plot???? Big enough that deer won't graze it like crazy? Do you know if you planted a fast maturing bean? "IF" all those answers are good and you get right weather, you COULD have 10-25 bushel beans which certainly isn't horrible BUT with this weather and depending on all those variables, so hard to say, IMO. You will likely have some good youth hunting, no doubt about that!!

*One other challenge you have.... With late planted beans, those rascals are gonna be green into October. That makes over-seeding rye, etc very difficult. You'd like yellowing beans towards end of august so the leaves fall off and let sunlight in on new stuff you interseeded. If you have any other areas you could do those things, MIGHT be something to consider.

dbltree

08-14-2011, 08:04 AM

August 14th, 2011

I have friends who can plant an acre of corn and then...combine it the next spring! I can plant 6 acres of corn however and they will eat the entire crop to the ground by the end of summer! Corn can be a great draw but once the ear is stripped it's done for, while soybeans or even brassicas have continued grazing, beans, roots etc. so one has to weigh the pros and cons of each along with deer density and decide if corn is right for them.

All of my corn has been demolished already and will have to be disced down but for now I set a trail cam up to get pics of the "demolition crew" at work...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Deer%20in%20corn/q1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Deer%20in%20corn/q2.jpg

They don't just strip the ear...they eat the plants themselves down to the stalk!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Deer%20in%20corn/q3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Deer%20in%20corn/q4.jpg

I'll let them feast away for now and then disc it under and plant the rye combination so I know I'll have food there all fall and winter.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Deer%20in%20corn/q5.jpg

Deer of course aren't the only animals that cause problems in corn, coons and squirrels also take their toll and around here the coons are thicker then hair on a dogs back making corn a "not so great" option for me, especially since it is the most expensive crop to plant... ;)

dbltree

08-16-2011, 09:15 AM

Many landowners are not aware that deer will not touch soybeans during the yellowing/drying down phase so we do NOT want our beans to look like this in October!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_0008.jpg

Here's a link to soybean maturity zones so you can be sure your buying beans that will mature and dry down well ahead of your hunting season.

Soybean Maturity Zones (https://netfiles.uiuc.edu/tjw/www/scn_map.htm)

Just talk to you seed supplier and they can help furnish you with the right beans for your area.

When beans start to yellow, that's the perfect time to overseed winter rye, forage radish and even red clover, so in my area I prefer soybeans that mature and dry down in late August thru mid September.

This is what it's all about...soybeans in November!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/BuckinSoybeans.jpg

Bushels per acre....that should be every landowners question when considering which beans to plant....what is the yield potential for these beans in my area? The higher the yield, the more deer we can attract and hold over a longer period of time.

Even 3 acres of beans however can be quickly stripped as the weather gets colder

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Deerinsoybeans.jpg

That makes overseeding with rye extremely important to allow us to continue feeding deer in that plot all the way until spring!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Ryeinsoybeans.jpg

Deer love the forage soybeans provide, that much is true but all soybeans including those grown for grain provide very attractive, high quality, high protein forage

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/8ac4.jpg

These ag beans are not only feeding deer all summer

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/8ac3.jpg

but will keep them coming during the rut and late season as well

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/8ac2.jpg

I will overseed winter rye, Groundhog forage radish and red clover into this field in late August

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/8ac1.jpg

What a great combination of grain and forage that will bring in hordes of deer for the landowner this fall! if we had planted a later maturing soybean...the only thing he would have is summer forage...don't think he'd be real happy with that this November.

Plant beans that will are right for your area and will mature and dry down well before hunting season, overseed with 50-150#'s of rye, 5-10#s of forage radish and 15#'s of red clover (white can be added also) and you'll be able to keep deer coming all fall, winter, spring and next summer...then rotate to something like brassicas...perfect! :way:

TDswitchback26

08-16-2011, 11:21 AM

Paul, when your talking over seeding.. do you have to do this with a drill since the ground isnt broke up or can i broadcast it? Thanks

Daver

08-16-2011, 06:35 PM

Paul, when your talking over seeding.. do you have to do this with a drill since the ground isnt broke up or can i broadcast it? Thanks

Broadcast it Tim, but we will need some rain to come on to make it work. :D (Disclosure - Tim and I are neighbors.) I have a bag seeder if you want to use it. Rye will just about grow on top of concrete if you get some moisture on it. Labor Day weekend is a pretty good time to do this, but we will need some rain sometime.

dbltree

08-16-2011, 07:39 PM

we will need some rain sometime

We need a LOT of rain...just wanted to clarify that Dave...:D

TDswitchback26

08-16-2011, 09:16 PM

I got a seeder but thanks Dave! I twisted my ankle stepping it one of the 8 inch cracks last time i was down there. lol

bearcatbaseball10

08-18-2011, 10:56 PM

here's a picture of one of our shooting house plots....even through HEAVY deer damage early and through present time, they are still holding pretty strong and started to go to Pod 2 weeks ago or so when I was in there overseeding bare areas with turnips....looking forward to hunting over this one this fall. Planted 6-7 and didn't see rain for 10 days....later pictures were taken today 8-18.

6-29-11 they looked like this....you can see the exclusion cage in the background.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/267502_542665812589_138801477_31138559_902066_n.jp g

8-18-11...same area...exclusion in the back ground again where the 4 legged boogers can't get to!

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/296643_544944131819_138801477_31179504_3168436_n.j pg

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/291833_544944141799_138801477_31179505_7471159_n.j pg

Pods...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/297643_544944116849_138801477_31179503_1063473_n.j pg

EVERY PLANT OUT OF THE CAGE LOOKS LIKE THIS.....

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/299048_544944086909_138801477_31179501_4914456_n.j pg

and the 4 legged evidence....34 yards from one of our archery sets :way:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/299688_544944101879_138801477_31179502_3307231_n.j pg

dbltree

08-19-2011, 05:38 AM

Great example of using an exclusion cage...well done! :way:

In my area I have so many friends who have tried forage beans and then been deeply disappointed, even disgusted with the results! They paid an outrageous amount of money for beans that ended up being a waste of time, money and plot space...for that reason I feel compelled to at least make others aware of the problems so that you can make informed choices.

All beans can be easily decimated...INCLUDING forage beans...all of these pics are pure forage beans...wiped out!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Foragebeans4.jpg

This is the reason many of us have decided to use fencing to protect ag soybeans because it's not the forage we need, but the BEANS!! It makes no sense to fence forage beans...take the fence down and then have the beans yellow and deer avoid them right in the middle of hunting season!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Foragebeans1.jpg

So why not mix forage and ag beans??

You certainly can but I would NOT mix them...plant strips or blocks of ag beans and separate strips of forage because deer are turned off by the smell of the yellowing beans and may avoid the whole plot if the they are mixed.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Foragebeans2.jpg

If I buy a premix of ag and forage beans...why isn't that better?

Because we grow beans as a source of highly attractive grain during hunting season....mixing 60% forage and 40% ag beans is like instantly cutting your yield in half!! Why on earth would we want to do that?!?! Weather can cut our yields in 1/2 as it is...why cut our ability to attract, hold and hunt deer in HALF????!!!!!!!!!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Foragebeans3.jpg

We want to provide high quality forage, spring, summer and early fall and then as much high energy grain as possible during hunting season. This is easily done by planting 10% of your plot to white clover...easily in the 20-25% protein range and capable of feeding deer almost year around at a fraction of the cost of other food sources. Plant high yielding ag beans and fence if necessary for fall attraction, make sure they are early maturing, overseed rye, radish and red clover into the standing beans and you will have a food plot supreme....bar none!

Friends...I'm just a blue collar workin' man....every dollar I make is hard earned and I sweat buckets for it, so I respect the value of a dollar and do my best to get the most out of it, especially when planting habitat. I tend to represent people like me on these forums, those who want the very best habitat without spending an arm and a leg for it...otherwise I could care less what seed you buy or from whom.

All of that being said...I wouldn't take a truck load of forage bean seed if you gave it to me because I have no use for anything that is useless from October 15th to November 15th and so few beans that is virtually useless the rest of the season.

If you have unlimited land and financial resources then none of this may matter to you...but if not, please don't end up disappointed like so many others in my neck of the woods... ;)

crs740

08-19-2011, 08:21 AM

dbltree

08-21-2011, 09:49 AM

Pretty damn good reasoning there Paul. I unfortunately got on the band wagon this year with forage beas, but am going to try your approach next year, At least my beans are right next to clover and standing corn.

Well done on planting a combination of crops in one place...:way:

You can’t grow big deer…

The implication by those companies that market seed almost exclusively to whitetail hunter/landowners is that their seeds/crops have the ability to produce bigger/larger antlers but nothing could be further from the truth. Assuming whitetails are not in a starvation situation due to over population and over browsing…no plants or combination of plants/crops on this planet can cause antlers to grow larger then their genetic potential. Mortality is usually what keeps deer from reaching their genetic potential…not what they eat.

Age and genetics…the only two factors that determine the size of a whitetail bucks antlers (disease and accident stress aside) If this were not so, then those raising captive deer would only have to feed them the very best to grow giants…but since this is not possible they spend incredible amounts of money to buy stud bucks that have the right genetics or buy semen and artificially inseminate does.

People living in agricultural areas often forget that giant whitetails are killed every year in wilderness areas like Saskatchewan and Mexico where not a single deer has ever tasted a soybean or clover leaf. My younger brother lives in northern Idaho and has killed some huge whitetail bucks including a booner that lived their entire lives never ever tasting any type of agricultural crops. His daughter’s boyfriend’s dad killed an amazing 220+ inch monster that lived his whole life eating…browse.

My brother hunts lions all winter…whitetail bucks perish from a different kind of mortality out there, note the deep snow and the type of browse.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Hunting/LionkilledBuck12-08.jpg

Idaho’s Greatest Whitetails (http://www.idahobiggame.com/books/idahos-greatest-whitetails/)

Hmmm? Wonder how those huge whitetails ever got along with someone “providing” them with some high priced “magic” food source??

Instead…they seem to do just fine on this…

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Idaho/I3.jpg

Have we forgotten that browse is a whitetails natural food source? Not soybeans, not clover or corn or Buck on a bag brassicas…browse. You may also not be aware that natural browse not only meets and exceeds the daily protein requirements of whitetails but many species EXCEED even the most high quality clover and soybean levels!!

It goes without saying then that it is imperative that we provide that natural forage by improving our woodland habitat by Timber Stand Improvement, hinging, edge feathering and tree/shrub planting. It also makes the idea that we must provide deer with some other source of protein or they will never achieve their potential…quite ludicrous.

The most difficult time of year for whitetails is the most often overlooked by both landowners and those that market seed to them….winter…the one time of year they need food the most…we provide the least.

Rut weary bucks are the most likely to leave for greener pastures when there is nothing left to eat and therein lies the problem with crops like forage beans. They provide feed for only a few months of the year and during a time when there is already plenty of other forage available. When deer need feed the most however…the forage bean plot is bare as a board forcing them to leave. A mix provides food for only a short time longer because yields are a fraction of what they could be.

A plot containing white clover and grain soybeans however can provide deer with high quality forage literally year around and grain when deer are at their most desperate state. Over seeding with winter rye and radishes not only eliminates the “useless” time when beans are yellowing but carries deer through the entire winter and into spring.

This buck has been living on my place for 5 years now…no monster by Iowa standards but he gets along just fine on white clover, rye and soybeans…no “magic” high priced seed has he ever seen…

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Trail%20Cam/Z18.jpg

Combined with natural browse whitetails will receive a diet of high quality forage that will far and away exceed their most maximum possible requirements…all at a reasonable cost to the landowner.

We’re a desperate lot it seems, always looking for an easy fix or a magic pill, turn on the radio and there are ads for pills that say we’ll never have to exercise again, just take a pill and the pounds will just shed right off! Others claim to solve memory loss or prostate problems…and they are doing a brisk business by those who believe their outlandish claims.

Nearly every deer biologist, outdoor writer or TV celebrity is being paid to hype someone’s seed…it’s a huge and profitable business in which profits quickly cloud over the truth.

There’s a pill for those folks too…clean their colon out so they won’t be so full of…”stuff” :thrwrck:

When I picked up a bag of Real World soybeans from Don Higgins at the Iowa Deer Classic I told him the same thing I tell everyone who ask me to test seed for them…I’m going to be brutally honest when I tell folks about your product. Don didn’t expect anything less…

These are his RW soybeans as of August 17th, 2011…they have not received any rain since June 28th

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5820.jpg

They look awesome…but so do my ag beans planted in the same field…they have loads of pods that are developing and filling well despite the severe drought

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5822.jpg

The only problem that I can see is that they (RW) would mature a little to late for my area but just right for those in mid to southern Missouri and Illinois I suspect.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5823.jpg

These beans are fenced because my goal is grain production for maximum fall and winter attraction, summer forage is easily provided with white clover and natural browse on all the farms I work with…the combination easily provides protein in the 25+ % range.

Obviously there is plenty of high quality forage on Don’s beans if one could avoid the use of fencing.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5821.jpg

The ag beans look equally great with plenty of pods

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5826.jpg

The ag beans are year old seed given away by major seed companies each year, germination may be slightly lower but with free seed I just increase the planting rate a tad. Yields however are completely unaffected by year old seed and will equal those of fresh seed.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5824.jpg

Shipping soybean seed (or any large seeds) is outrageously expensive so I would encourage you to purchase seeds from your local ag co-op if at all possible. Ask for early maturing, high yielding soybeans that resist shattering and always check for year old or left over seed after spring planting season is done for bargain prices.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5825.jpg

Friends…across the continent, whitetails can easily reach their genetic potential on nothing more then their natural native browse…if of course they are allowed to live. Use trail cam surveys to monitor your deer herd and keep track of the age of the bucks using your property, if you want them to reach maturity, you’ll have to let them walk until they do so.

Examine you habitat goals and determine how you can maximize your habitat by increasing native browse and planting a combination of crops within a centralized feeding area. Our goal should be to adapt deer to coming to that plot year around with emphasis on the period from December to April when deer are stressed and searching for food sources. Grain soybeans over seeded with rye and help you meet that goal along with clover, brassicas and rye.

Corn and milo are other great sources of late fall and winter feed and Mike sent a picture of his corn which looks pretty doggone good considering he is in a drought stressed area in WI

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/Mikescorn.jpg

Don’t fall for the “magic pill” hype in fancy ads or from deer biologist’s intent on profiting from your seed purchase. Creating habitat takes time and hard work but it need not cost a small fortune, your goals and means of meeting those goals may be different from mine, so if you use corn, soybeans or milo as part of your year around habitat program…please come back and share what worked for you on your land in an effort to help others reach their habitat goals….;)

dbltree

09-01-2011, 06:32 PM

September 1st, 2011

Soybeans are turning at a rapid rate here in Iowa....right on schedule...that last thing we want is soybeans turning during hunting season because deer will refuse to touch them at this stage.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5853.jpg

Perfect time to start overseeding winter rye, GHFR and red clover into the standing beans...so I enlisted the help of my son to get the job done .

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5950.jpg

There are different varieties and maturity dates mixed in so some are nearly all turned while others are just starting

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5954.jpg

the later maturing varieties are just starting to turn and allowing enough sunlight to reach the soil surface once the rye germinates.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5957.jpg

The early maturing beans have dropped 80% of their leaves already

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5951.jpg

Once the leaves drop the beans themselves will have to dry down before being palatable and attractive to deer, this can be a long process if the beans are green when it freezes rather then drying down

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5955.jpg

This is what it's all about...this is why we plant soybeans....this is what attracts and hold whitetails during November through January...soybeans!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5953.jpg

The drought in our area has drastically hurt yields because many pods didn't fill, so just because your beans have pods doesn't mean they really have beans in them. They may be BB sized or not even there, so open the pods and check the size of the beans to compare varieties.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_5956.jpg

Soybeans can be an awesome late season attraction but they can be easily wiped out so do your homework before considering adding soybeans to your habitat tool chest next year... ;)

dbltree

09-11-2011, 03:26 PM

September 11th, 2011

They have been combining corn since Labor Day here in SE Iowa, the drought speeded up the drying process and farmers are gearing up to go full bore soon. Corn is a huge draw for whitetails in this country both as cover and a food source

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_6005.jpg

It is extremely difficult to compete with freshly harvested corn and I have seen deer feed for months in the stubble left behind.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Corn/IMG_6069.jpg

Corn however is expensive to grow and in small fields it's often decimated long before season unless fenced. It is important to understand why deer find it so appealing in the fall because corn is high in energy although not as high in fat. Acorns are high in fat but not in protein while soybeans are often higher in both. Fat is often added to hog rations to supplement the corn and soybean meal to provide both protein and fat.

It makes sense then as land managers to provide both acorns and soybeans when possible and both can be grown for less then the cost of growing corn. Obviously oak trees take time to grow and reach a productive stage but hybrids can produce in as little as 8 years so when they are planted in conjunction to our centralized food sources they can easily out compete the neighboring corn field.

RR soybeans often require fencing but because they are legumes are far less expensive to grow and can provide a food source far into winter that will attract and hold whitetails like few other crops. When overseeded with winter rye and red clover they can feed deer until the plot can be rotated to another nitrogen using crop like brassicas or corn.

Now is the time to overseed rye into standing soybeans, with late August thru early September being the optimum time for most of the mid west. I overseeded rye in standing beans about 8-10 days ago after which we received roughly 3/4" of an inch of rain.

The rye is starting to pop up!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6012.jpg

Some just barely...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6013.jpg

more so in the shade of the beans that are just starting to turn

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6014.jpg

at first a little canopy is not a bad thing to protect the seeds from drying sun and wind

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6015.jpg

but in time as the leaves fall from the beans the rye will be begin to grow and provide a lush source of feed as well as providing great soil cover! I also overseeded red clover as these beans will be rotated to brassicas next summer.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6016.jpg

To make this work it is very important to have early maturing soybeans so be certain to check with your supplier and purchase beans right for you area. Late planted beans will of course be late maturing so be cognizant of this also as sometimes wet spring weather can delay planting. Always look for high yielding soybeans that are capable of producing 40-50 bushel yields under proper fertilization and normal rainfall.

Remember that almost any other crops from clover to canola can easily provide tons of high quality forage so for most of us, the emphasis when planting soybeans should be on the production of soybeans themselves. Those beans will allow us to compete with highly attractive crops like corn and hold deer well into the first of the year, adding winter rye and red clover closes the gap and eliminates any period of time when the plot is not attractive to whitetails.

I was a little concerned that the Real World soybeans I planted as a test for Don Higgins would mature too late to allow for overseeding so I was relieved to see that they are starting to turn, only a week perhaps different then typical soybeans grown in my area of Iowa.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6082.jpg

We broadcasted 125#'s of winter rye, 5#'s of GHFR and 20#'s of red clover into this 1.5 acre field of standing soybeans of which 1/3 is RW and the rest several common RR varieties of soybeans....all of which are starting to yellow

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6083.jpg

I planted them in early May so those who planted in mid May may find them still green and canopied making overseeding more difficult...just things to be aware of when you choose your soybean seed next spring. Maturity dates are a big deal!

Even though all of our soybeans endured a nasty 2 month drought, the ag and RW beans are filling nicely

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6085.jpg

Once the leaves drop and the beans are fully exposed I'll count only those pods that have filled and do a comparison but Don's beans are obviously high quality, high yielding soybeans!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6084.jpg

These are ag beans that were grazed all summer, yet every inch of the plant is covered with pods!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6018.jpg

They are turning just in time to allow the rye to get sunlight

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6019.jpg

This picture is an example of differing maturity dates with the soybeans on the right yellowing and drying down while the others are still green....the goal for most of us should be to have soybeans at the stage on the right in early September....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6006.jpg

You've heard the expression "won't amount to a hill of beans"...these are a good example! Late planted soybeans that then endured a severe drought and heavy grazing pressure with few pods filled at this point, they may hardly be worth combining.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6040.jpg

If they were a food plot however they could be salvaged by overseeding with rye, radishes and red clover...all of which would work perfectly in the row planted beans with the killed grass mulch covering the soil.... ;)

droptine37

09-14-2011, 06:43 PM

Here's a bit of info I thought some of you guys in the bad drought areas might find useful this hunting season. DblTrees previous post made me think about it. On our property we have some sand hills that year after year produce corn that only gets about 4 ft tall at the most. The ears are always small, in the 3-5 inch range. Combines these days really have a hard time getting these thru the combine and into the storage tank without shooting a good majority of the corn right out the back with the other residue. Our cut corn fields always have every deer from the area out there feeding on the extra corn that ends up on those sand hills. For those of you who hunt around standing corn fields that have been hampered by the drought and have really small ears it might be a good idea to start planning now on how your going to hunt the deer that come to these fields for all these small ears that the combine will shoot right out the back. It might effect your deer movement on your property like it does ours so I just thought I would throw this out there.

I actually just got done reading that in Kansas farmers arent even using there corn heads this year because the ears are so small. They have to use some other type of head but I cant remember exactly what it was. Anyways, unless your local farmer has the option to use another head that can handle these small ears just be prepared for all the extra grain that will be in your fields because it can really change your deer patterns.

dbltree

09-15-2011, 05:09 AM

be prepared for all the extra grain that will be in your fields because it can really change your deer patterns.

and they will feed it in it all winter if there is enough grain on the ground...;)

dbltree

09-18-2011, 11:40 AM

September 18th, 2011

A friend of mine sent pics in of his soybeans field which has already turned and the leaves are dropping...perfect! This is what our soybean fields should look like in September because when they look like this, deer will not touch the beans. The last thing we want is to plant late maturing beans that deer will avoid during hunting season.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Fredbeans9-18.jpg

While the beans are not attractive, his white clover is...so his deer have plenty to eat

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Fredclover.jpg

and because the beans are early maturing he was able to overseed winter rye into the standing beans and with recent rainfall it's starting to germinate. This will provide an additional source of food not only later this fall but all winter and into spring.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Fredryeinbeans9-18.jpg

The rye of course is so much more then "just a food source"...it's a fantastic soil builder that can be killed chemically or with tillage next spring before planting the next crop. Corn, soybeans or milo can be no-tilled into the rye or red clover can be overseeded or frost seeded into the standing beans along with the rye and both left standing until they are tilled under for brassicas next summer...lot's of options and all economical for those on a budget and with little or no equipment!

The landowner in this case also has brassicas, fields planted to switchgrass, Timber Stand Improvement, Timber Edge Feathering , hinging trees and hardwood, conifer and fruit tree planting projects in progress...all of which (based on the trail cam pics he sends me) are paying off with more mature whitetail bucks living on his property.

Habitat management pays huge dividends but it's not about one thing, not just about planting a food plot or using some "magic dust" mineral...it's about a complete program that allows you to enhance every aspect, every inch of your property utilizing every improvement possible.

Choosing early maturing soybeans and overseeding them in early September with rye, radish and red clover is a step in the right direction because it maximizes the use of the feeding area, providing food year around when combined with other crops like white clover. It also helps lower herbicide and fertilizer inputs and lowers concerns about failures due to droughts by using cover crops that build organic matter, control weeds, scavenge or create nitrogen and....feed whitetails at the same time.... ;)

dbltree

09-24-2011, 06:16 AM

My friend John sent in some picture of his soybeans in WI...he took advantage of free soybean seed and is tickled with the results!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/j5.jpg

They have been heavily grazed but still producing beans like crazy!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/j4.jpg

Lots of high quality forage all summer and soybeans for the late season....all from free seed!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/j3.jpg

His Egyptian Wheat screen looks great too!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/j1.jpg

Whenever you can take advantage of free RR soybean seed and are able to grow soybeans (with or without electric fencing) they can be an economical but very attractive food source... :way:

dbltree

10-09-2011, 04:19 PM

October 10th, 2011

10 days into hunting season here in Iowa and probably most of the country for that matter and harvest is well under way. These soybeans were planted in early June and started turning in early September and while there were deer feeding in this field all summer, the moment the beans started turning...it was void of deer.

I took these pictures on Friday morning (October 5th) and that evening a combine rolled in and began cutting beans...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6296.jpg

We have had a killing frost here so any soybeans regardless of variety or brand are...now dead but "dead" does not mean "dry" and the soys that turn this time of year take even longer to dry down, making the period in which they are not attractive to deer even longer.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6297.jpg

To avoid having this problem be sure to purchase seed with a maturity rating suited for your area that will insure they look like this by hunting season.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6295.jpg

These are Real World soybeans marketed by Don Higgins and like most soybeans in my area they have dried down well before hunting season.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6305.jpg

There are 3 varieties in each bag and that is more apparent now that the leaves are off

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6303.jpg

These beans performed very well under very dry conditions and appear to have yielded well

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6304.jpg

If you need to purchase your soybean seed (versus getting free year old seed) I would compare prices and shipping costs with that at your closest co-op and purchase the maturity rating right for you and your area. Shipping is cost prohibiting for many landowners but you may find Don at late winter shows where you can pick up seed.

I have already lined up most of my soybean seed for this coming year...free for the cost of picking it up and all top quality RR soybean seed normally grown in my area.

It will be interesting to see how long these beans last once the weather turns colder.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6302.jpg

Our soybeans did very well considering the severe drought conditions but in some cases the size of the beans was affected so when comparing beans always check the size of the beans from different varieties grown in the same field.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/s1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/s2.jpg

Use soybeans as part of a multi crop system that allows you to provide year around food sources so that where one ends...the other begins. Brassicas and soybeans are great crops to rotate and compliment each other especially when combined with areas of white clover and overseeding rye into the standing beans.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/s4.jpg

Soybeans can be an outstanding attraction from November through January

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/s3.jpg

so we are keeping ours fenced until later this month

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/s6.jpg

Roundup Ready soybeans are easy to grow and can be no till or conventionally row planted or broadcast into tilled soil, they tolerate dry soils and hot temperatures but...they can also be a total failure if deer decimate them and that is a very real problem that most landowners will face.

Plant soybeans along side plenty of other lush healthy crops and consider using electric fence on at least a portion of the field and you'll most likely end up with a successful hunting season.... ;)

Qdmaer

10-16-2011, 08:38 PM

Could soybeans be planted with a truax no till drill that i use for nwsg?

dbltree

10-17-2011, 06:27 AM

Could soybeans be planted with a truax no till drill that i use for nwsg?

You bet! Usually they have a box just for that on the drill but check with whomever has the drill...;)

Qdmaer

10-17-2011, 07:23 PM

You bet! Usually they have a box just for that on the drill but check with whomever has the drill...;)

Yeah the one i rent has a small,fluffy and grain box on it. It has 7 inch row spacings was my only concern. If i am planting just for deer will the shorter row space affect the growth?

dbltree

10-18-2011, 05:54 AM

Yeah the one i rent has a small,fluffy and grain box on it. It has 7 inch row spacings was my only concern. If i am planting just for deer will the shorter row space affect the growth?

7" is a common spacing for soybeans...just adjust the planting rate to plant the correct amount per acre...roughly 140,000 to 180,000 seeds per acre...:way:

dbltree

10-24-2011, 09:48 AM

October 24th, 2011

Late October view of my "still fenced" soybeans...note the rye coming up between the rows, surrounding strips of the winter rye mix along side strips of white clover. Out of sight but within yards of the soybeans are more strips that also include strips of brassicas beside the strips of white clover and winter rye/oats/peas/ radish and red clover. In this view you can see the Real World soybeans marketed by Don Higgins on the right and the RR soybeans that I got free on the left. All did great and are ripe for the pickin' when I let the fence down next week.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/beans.jpg

Some observations so far this fall...where there is white clover and or rye beside the soybeans, deer are focusing on the green feed at this point but where there is no other food source...they are focusing on the soybeans already.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/zk6.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/zk8.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/zk7.jpg

I recently had the opportunity to tour a farm while doing a consultation where the landowner had been following my threads for some time and had planted strips of white clover, strips of corn, strips of free RR ag soybeans (which he overseeded with GHFR) and he had planted one narrow strip of forage beans sandwiched in between all of these.

There had not been a killing frost in his area so the forage beans were still green and deer had grazed on some of them earlier but the bulk of them appeared untouched and as noted elsewhere, deer were focusing on the white clover. The combination of some white clover in or around regular RR early maturing soybeans is hard to beat and very economical for most landowners. In this case the forage radish had germinated and was doing well although in some areas a bit to thick but the forage beans were still green and it was not possible to overseed anything into those beans. Unfortunately the forage beans will freeze and die and become unpalatable to deer right during the most crucial period of the hunting season so use caution to purchase soybeans that will mature and dry down before hunting season n your area.

In the following pics...there is white clover just beyond the beans but it is very dormant because of the drought in our area. Still deer are feeding on the soybeans and then moving forward to nibble on the white clover that remains.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/a2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/a3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/a7.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/a8.jpg

Soybeans are very attractive in late fall and early winter but like any crop it should not be the only food source. Be sure to incorporate other strips or blocks of corn, clover, rye or brassicas that together will provide year around food sources and allow for easy crop rotation and soil building.... ;)

dbltree

10-28-2011, 06:13 PM

Shatter Resistant Soybeans

Most soybeans grown for grain production are shatter resistant for obvious reasons because no farmer wants his soybeans dropping out onto the ground before or while combining like these beans...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6398.jpg

It's also the last thing we want and perhaps even more important to us because we want a food source that lasts well into the winter and it's certainly not going to do us or our deer much good laying in the dirt and eventually in mud or covered with snow.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6399.jpg

When choosing soybean seed be sure to choose varieties that will mature by early September in most of the mid west and are disease and shatter resistant. Talk to your seed supplier and ask questions and ask for university tests that compare grain yields so you can choose high yielding beans right for your area.

The seed from Don Higgins has proven to be shatter resistant and appears to be very high yielding along side the other RR grain type soybeans I planted this year, only 1 bag of free seed was not shatter resistant and no doubt a "reject" variety after testing.

Standing soybeans during the late season = deer magnet and I'm looking forward to hunting funnels leading to mine... :way:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6400.jpg

Qdmaer

11-01-2011, 01:50 PM

Paul, Out of all the crops that can be planted what do deer like the best?

dbltree

11-01-2011, 06:43 PM

Paul, Out of all the crops that can be planted what do deer like the best?

If I could only plant one...it would be white clover but you have to remember that deer are likely to switch from one crop to another at different times of the year.

Forages high in protein in the spring but grains high in energy and fat in the fall and there is no one crop or plant that will fill those needs all times of the year...hence the different crop combinations.

All of that being said....deer are opportunistic and given almost any food source in a safe feeding area and they will just stay and eat that....the minute that plot is empty however they will leave, so the "favorite" crop is the one that's always there.

I make sure I have a number of crop types that provide food sources year around in one place...THAT'S the crop(s) they like best! :way:

dbltree

11-03-2011, 07:17 PM

November 3rd, 2011

I opened up the electric fence the other day and it didn't take long for them to figure out it was down...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Bean2.jpg

The soybeans have been dry and ready for more then a month now but I wanted to save them for November

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Bean1.jpg

Several friends have been disappointed to find out that their late maturing forage beans however are about as attractive right now as rotten eggs. The still green soybeans froze and now are yellowing and in a completely useless stage...of ALL times...NOVEMBER!!

On the other hand those who planted early maturing ag soybeans are watching a field full of deer and very satisfied with their choice of soybeans. Nearly every one of them overseeded with winter rye, forage radish and red clover which not only will provide continued grazing all winter and into summer but also some fantastic soil building organic matter too boot....you can beat that with a stick! :way:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Bean3.jpg

Interesting side note...I left the sides up and the fence on but watched deer after seer "slither" back and forth under it completely unaffected, just as I suspected... ;)

dbltree

11-08-2011, 08:47 AM

November 8th, 2011

The weather is turning colder and whitetails are seeking out food sources high in fat and energy whenever they can which means that corn and soybeans are going to get a lot of attention right now.

Cams reveal that doe groups hit the soybeans nightly...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/zx1.jpg

but they aren't the only ones...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/z1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/z3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/z6.jpg

This time of year bucks are interested less in feed however...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/z9.jpg

and the fat reserves they have stored up will be rapidly diminished this month

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Bean1-1.jpg

as they persistently pursue does coming into estrous

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Beans2.jpg

the only other time mature bucks are vulnerable is in the late season when rut weary bucks are driven to take risks simply out of hunger and more likely to make daylight appearances in fields such as those containing standing soybeans. This is the only time I hunt over food sources and even then only for a mature buck as they appear in the last few minutes of daylight.

I fully expected to harvest my target buck in this manner since he was almost completely nocturnal based on hundreds of trail cam photos over the past several years, but...a hot doe led him past my stand and to his demise. Once again I was blessed to take a truly mature animal from my own farm where he lived...and died...

The hunt and the history can be read in my Journal at this link:

Dbltree's Dream (http://www.outreachoutdoors.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1144&start=280)

Late December will still find me watching late season food sources with my muzzleloader but more then likely most of the "shooting" will be done with my camera.... ;)

letemgrow

11-08-2011, 09:27 AM

Once again I was blessed to take a truly mature animal from my own farm where he lived...and died...

Hard to beat a story like that!! That is as close to farming deer as one can come. :way:

dbltree

11-22-2011, 07:22 AM

November 22nd, 2011

A friend sent me a pic of his forage soybeans on 11-5-2011...killing freezes in late October killed these beans and rendered then 100% useless during the one the single most critical time of the year that we all wait for...the RUT!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/ForageBeans11-5-11.jpg

Fortunately he planted ag soybeans as well and was able to get free seed to boot and though they were planted side by side...deer ate the foliage of BOTH late maturing forage soybeans and early maturing ag beans all summer. He wisely had planted white clover around the perimeter of the plot and when I was there, the ag beans had dried down, the forage beans were still green and deer were focusing on the white clover!!

The forage beans did not draw deer from miles around nor cause them to grow ginormous racks but because he grows a combination of crops that allow him to feed deer year around, the deer on his property are becoming adapted to feeding there. he overseeded the ag beans with GHFR which did fabulous!

When soybeans freeze and die they take far longer to dry down then ag beans that do so because they are bred too and September is far warmer and drier then November so forage beans can easily take a month before the beans themselves will dry and be palatable to whitetails.

let's take a look at the same time period (early to mid November...prime rut period) and see what deer think of common ag beans??

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/S1.jpg

Whitetails are flocking to these soybeans for the GRAIN and of course bucks seeking does they know will be there

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/s2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/s3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/s4.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/s5.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/s6.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/s9.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/s10.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/s8.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/s11.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/s12.jpg

If you are interested in growing soybeans as part of your habitat management program, I urge you to utilize white clover as the chief element for high quality, high protein forage and early maturing ag soybeans for a fall source of high energy grain. Plant them in the same field and if possible in strips or blocks that include brassicas which will allow you to rotate the soybeans and brassicas. Over seed the early maturing ag soybeans in late August with 50-150#'s of winter rye and 5-10#'s of Groundhog forage radish to maximize the use of your plot (you cannot do this with forage beans)

RR soybeans are not for everyone and can easily be wiped out in small fields but where possible they can be an economical and easy to grow food source that will be very attractive in November and December... :way:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Soybucks.jpg

dbltree

12-01-2011, 06:03 AM

December 1st, 2011

Whitetails love soybeans...that much is true....

(time stamp not correct on this cam)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/PICT1406.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/bb11.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/PICT0690.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/PICT0960.jpg

Are soybeans worth the hassle of fencing however? Given alternatives in the same feeding area where deer are adapted to feeding do soybeans really make a difference?

My standing soybeans have nearly 2 acres of the rye/oats/peas/radish/red clover combo planted around them and the beans themselves are overseeded with straight rye at 150#'s per acre.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6801.jpg

The beans are ag beans and real World soybeans from Don Higgins, all high yielding, high quality soybeans that did very well and very attractive at this point.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6802.jpg

A close look at the rye in the beans reveals that deer are grazing the rye while literally standing knee deep in soybeans...which is the whole idea of course, to provide "green and grain" in one area, maximizing the yield or amount of feed we can produce off from a given acre.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6800.jpg

Still....one might assume that deer would not eat the rye until the beans were gone and they were...desperate, so to speak. This is the rye combination planted immediately adjacent to the standing soybeans and it is quite literally grazed to the dirt.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6803.jpg

Just beyond the beans is 1 1/2 acres of the rye/oat/pea/radish/clover mix and deer were filling up that field as I stood near the soybeans checking a trail cam. One would think they would ignore the rye for the beans yet obviously that is not the case

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6805.jpg

I don't want to imply that deer are not eating the soybeans because they certainly are

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Deer%20in%20Rye/d5-1.jpg

but it as is the case with almost any and all crops i plant for whitetails...it's not because they prefer beans, it's just because they are there...and deer are not stupid....they are opportunistic and take advantage of any food source that is close to safe bedding.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Deer%20in%20Rye/d1-2.jpg

I have 600 pics from the this cam in 5 days....and they reveal the truth, they tell the story that observation alone does not because it's there 24/7. So despite a field full of ripe, beautiful soybeans....deer are grazing the rye combo all night long

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Deer%20in%20Rye/d2-1.jpg

and these pictures reveal deer standing in the soybeans (we'll assume they are eating the beans)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Deer%20in%20Rye/d3-1.jpg

then LEAVING the soybeans to eat the rye combination and even the Alice white clover beside the rye

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Deer%20in%20Rye/d4-1.jpg

Some points to be aware of...NEW plots where deer are not yet adapted to feeding can sometimes be a wildcard the first year. Depending on deer numbers activity is not always the greatest until deer adapt to feeding there.

Farms that have 30% cover and 70% food sources (ag and plots combined) are going to give deer so much food that they are unlikely to concentrate on any one food source. Our goals were possible should (in general) be 10% food and 90% cover..the more ag crops there are the more scattered the deer will be as they feed on the combined fields and the more frustrating the landowner will be.

All of that being said...and deer area adapted to feeding in one centralized feeding area (not soybeans in one field and rye in another 300 yards away) then they will adapt to feeding on whatever you plant for them. Soybeans are certainly an attractive food source but for many this may require expensive fencing which then may be high maintenance compared to a 3 way crop rotation of white clover/brassicas and the rye combination mentioned here.

We all want the edge, that much is true...but often we are only fooling ourselves about how to get to that point. We spend insane amounts of money on "buck on a bag seed", fencing soybeans, arguing with others over which crop they like better....and NONE of that is necessary.

If you want the edge...provide the greatest amount of the thickest nastiest cover you can, plant your food sources in a safe centralized feeding area, where possible convert crop lands to CRP/NWSG to increase cover and lower the amount of feed available and then....the results will be far more positive then anything else you have ever done.... ;)

impactarcher

12-01-2011, 07:57 PM

dbltree

12-04-2011, 01:59 PM

Dbltree, I'm faced with the question of whether or not I want to mess with planting soybeans and the hassle of fencing them off in 2012. Part of me says yes plant them simply for the variety and the other part of me says save the time and money for something else. That being said, I see your still planting soybeans despite your love for the brassica mix and cereal mix! Why is that? If they require so much more ork and the deer don't prefer them anyways can you tell me a good reason why you still plant them and fence them? Just curious.

These are teaching threads so I do all kinds of things I don't have to so I can test, compare and share the results to help others make choices that are right for them. To say you don't need soybeans is not enough I must prove that so people reading this can have confidence in what I share. Note it is not about the type of food but rather the type of cover surrounding the feed.

2bowhunt

12-13-2011, 02:19 PM

dbltree

12-13-2011, 08:16 PM

I have two 1 acre plots seperated by a creek. My question is, can I effectively rotate soybeans(overseeded with rye) and brassicas? And if so, how much N would you recommend for the brassica plot? I would also be open to other ideas of what to plant for an early bow season/late season crop rotation. Thanks

You can rotate soybeans and brassicas but you only gain about 30 credits of nitrogen from the beans to be used by the brassicas so you'll need to add roughly 150#'s of urea to provide enough N.

I like to rotate rye/red clover with brassicas because the red clover not only provides up to 130#'s of N credits but also feeds deer until I till it under for brassicas.

Whatever you decide I also suggest you add some white clover to each plot, plant a strip around the outside, odd areas and such. White clover is a critical element in achieving our goals of year around food sources and thereby adapting deer to always coming to ONE place to feed (even if thatone place is divided by a creek or draw)

2bowhunt

12-14-2011, 05:16 AM

dbltree

12-19-2011, 06:51 AM

Ok, now concerning the clover, I do have 3 small clover "kill plots" totaling 1.25 acres all within the same 20 acres as the previously mentioned plots. With that being the case do I still need to add clover to my larger plots?

Yes...otherwise you will never adapt deer to coming to ONE place year around!

December 19th, 2011

Soybeans can be a great attractant during the late season but each landowner considering beans should be aware they have drawbacks. They may look great from a distance

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6883.jpg

but up close you may find they are shattering

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6880.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6882.jpg

and dumping the beans onto the ground

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6881.jpg

A good crop of brassicas can help you assure you have a continued food source and/or replace the soybeans altogether

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6885.jpg

Deer can strip several acres of beans within weeks depending on deer densities of course so keep this in mind when planning your feeding area and food sources.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/d1.jpg

When the snow flies they will beat a path to standing soybeans or corn

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/d4.jpg

That said I would remind everyone that last year in this same field there were just as many if not more deer feeding on strips of brassicas and the rye combination.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/d3.jpg

These deer are not here because they find soybeans irresistible but rather because they are adapted to coming to this field where they have a combination of food sources to keep them fed year around.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/d2.jpg

In every plot there is white clover and brassicas in addition to soybeans overseeded with winter rye

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/b4.jpg

The plots are surrounded by quality bedding and screened from outside interference, so the deer you see in these pictures will be here regardless of what combination of food sources we plant.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/b3.jpg

Deer are opportunistic and will readily take advantage of any food source available to them but in many cases they may be so adapted to feeding in neighboring crop fields it will take time to adapt them to your feeding area.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/b1.jpg

Soybeans can be a useful tool but never make it about one crop and never dilute the usefulness of crops by planting multiple plots all over your farm. Plant one centralized feeding area and utilize a combination of crops that in turn keep deer fed year around. Soybeans alone are incapable of doing this as is corn, so utilize clovers adapted to your area as well as crops like brassicas and winter rye/oats/peas/radish and red clover..ALL planted in the same field...and soon you too will adapt deer to always coming there and your hunting success will improve markedly..... :way:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/b2.jpg

bwese

12-19-2011, 04:13 PM

dbltree,

How big are these plots that you put all of these different choices in? Do you have an acre of each all connected and how do you keep the food there with the high deer density you have? What is your basic ratio of bean/brassica/corn/rye/etc. acres?

IQDM

12-19-2011, 06:35 PM

dbltree

12-20-2011, 06:46 AM

DT, is the reason for only one centralized plot so that it is easier to hunt? If I had strip plots in 3 different areas as opposed to 1 would the only negative be diluted hunting? Or is there other negatives? On the todem pole of a deer herd, the lower deer get pushed around quite a bit... what are your thoughts on social stress or pressure when 50 deer try to pile into a single 5 acre plot? I certainly agree with a centralized food plot... I am just wondering why only one if there is another area that would work or if your property does not allow for a central location?

Always use one feeding area per 80-120 acres! Deer will adjust by feeding at different times, I have counted nearly 60 deer in 3 acres and they do just fine. That said, every property is unique so in some cases irregular shaped property may require another feeding area but generally deer will quickly figure out where the food is and adapt to that....:way:

dbltree

12-23-2011, 06:39 AM

December 23rd, 2011

Several people have wondered how the Real World Soybeans have held up with regard to shattering so i slipped down and checked on them...they are shattering but not as badly as most of the beans. Thus far I have not see ANY soybeans that were totally shatter resistant which is one inherent downfall of soybeans period and something each of you will want to keep in mind when deciding what crops to utilize.

These are shattered RW soybeans but since there are several varieties in Don's mix, it appears some are holding up better then others.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6931.jpg

Some pods are still sold and holding up

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6933.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6932.jpg

In all of these pics you can see the winter rye overseeded into the beans

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_6934.jpg

because rye can germinate down to 36 degrees and grow at 34 degrees, some people have noticed that rye is still germinating and growing that due to severe drought had not previously germinated. It may be too late to provide fall forage but will still provide early spring forage and become a great cover crop.

I traveled to Illinois yesterday to do a consultation and as we walked through the landowners soybeans (which were shattering as well) he mentioned that someone told him that deer wouldn't eat the beans in the pods and that they had to fall on the ground first...amazing sometimes how little people really understand about whitetails and apparently have never watched them stripping the beans from the pods as fast as they can!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/IMAG0355.jpg

Deer are opportunistic, meaning they will not pass up any opportunity to fill their bellies and they certainly don't mind eating beans on the ground. The problem however is that when we get rains the soybeans swell, turn mushy and start to rot on the ground or snows cover them and the melting snow causes the same problem, so beans that stay in the pods are far better with less waste.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/IMAG0718.jpg

In every plot I have multiple food sources, there is never any such thing as a field of beans or a field of clover for instance but rather each plot contains the right crop combinations to provide year around food sources. This also gives us a unique opportunity (with the use of trail cams) to observes usage 24/7 on many plots on many farms and the results are always the same. Whitetails feed on ALL the food sources and surprisingly, in every case spend as much or more time eating white clover, brassicas and the winter rye combination...as they do soybeans.

I sometimes go thru 30,000 to 40,000 trail cam pics when I check landowners cams which gives me a unique opportunity to really study whitetails day and night and easily dispel myth's and misconceptions. In contrast landowners who rely solely on observation by sitting on a food source a few days out of the year usually are clueless to what is really going on.

In every plot, deer eat EVERYTHING I plant...not deer in just one plot on just one farm, but EVERY farm....hundreds and hundreds of whitetails ALL readily feeding on the crops I plant for them. Sometimes...they may be in the beans....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Deerinbeans1.jpg

but more often then not the cams reveal they are feeding on the winter rye/oats/peas/radish combination and Alice white clover planted beside it.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/Ryenclover4.jpg

You are bombarded with fancy ads that promise huge bucks and some kind of magic attraction if you purchase their seeds and further confused by people who rely on observation a few days out of the year, but the truth friends is often far different. never pin your hopes on any one crop but rather attract and HOLD whitetails with a combination of year around food sources (where possible) in ONE single destination feeding area.

Choose the combinations that will work well for you and your budget and give deer time to adapt to that feeding area. The following are some combination suggestions that are 100% successful on every farm I work with.

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

or

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover.

Soybeans overseeded with winter rye, forage radish and red clover in 45% of plot

Plant early maturing soybeans, then as leaves start to yellow overseed the above mentioned crops at 100-150#'s of rye, 5#'s of radish and 15#'s of Mammoth red clover

Rotate the brassicas and soybeans each year

In each case the combination of crops will keep deer coming to that ONE place day after day, spring, summer, fall and winter and trail cams will reveal the truth that some would prefer you didn't see..... ;)

nailbender76

12-24-2011, 11:14 AM

Kinda late in finding this thread, but the idea had been on my mind for a few years. I finnaly was able to have the land and opportunity this year.
The idea i had was to simply provide cover for the deer while they were in the bean field, mainly because the area can be easily seen from an old mud road. I was not so worried about getting a good stand of corn.
I used a no till 7.5" spacing and just mixed the corn seed in with beans while in the hopper. Was trying for 15 - 20% corn seed, but I think it was too much.
Got the plot in late, but still grew well. Picture is July 31. Corn put on few or no ears. The ones that did make ears were eaten early. I'm happy with it though, the deer are always out there and nobody can see them or shoot at them. Beans have great pods all the way around and should get me well past shed time.
I will do the same thing again next year, but im going to plant a straight up corn field as well. I don't think corn likes the competition.

dbltree

12-26-2011, 06:23 AM

Thanks for sharing the pics...the corn needs a lot of nitrogen so consider using 200-300#'s of urea at planting if you want it to thrive. Urea needs to be tilled in however so you'll want to disc it in before planting. ;)

dbltree

01-05-2012, 06:05 AM

January 5th, 2012

A good friend of mine planted soybean food plots on his large farm along side the soybeans planted in the farmed areas of the same farm and commented to me the other day that he may just go ahead and combine them because there are so many beans left. The farm was previously pasture so I suspect in time deer will adapt to his feeding areas and eventually they may clean up the beans by now but time will tell.

In contrast most of the beans I have planted in feeding areas were deer are adapted to feeding there are GONE! It took only 2-3 weeks after removing the electric fences for deer to wipe out the beans just as they annihilate standing corn making neither good options for my area. The white clover/brassica/rye combination however keeps them fed year around and they don't end up with an empty feeding area like they do with corn or beans.

One thing I would like to make clear here is that adding soybeans did not bring in any more deer then when we had only the clover/brassica/rye combination so when you are mulling over your habitat plans...keep that in mind. The most common misconception is that some crop...ANY crop has the power to draw deer for miles and nothing could be farther from the truth. Cover is the key to holding deer and once you have thick premium cover...they will eat anything and everything you plant for them. If your not seeing deer....don't blame it on the food source....but take a long hard look at the quality of your cover!

In this field we have strips of soybeans and strips of brassicas with white clover in the corners and the landowner observed deer primarily feeding in the "green stuff"...clover and brassicas. Still....the principle of strip plots can be seen in this picture and you can incorporate any combination of crops into one field in this manner. Soybeans and brassicas can be a good rotation if you overseed rye into the standing soybeans.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7059.jpg

As mentioned the problem with soybeans is that in most cases there are gone so quickly they are not that effective in meeting our goals of providing year around food sources.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7068.jpg

Stripped clean!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7064.jpg

The saving grace here is the brassicas...the big fat turnips!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7066.jpg

They focused on the Groundhog forage radish all late summer and early fall, then the rape plants and then the turnip tops and now...the huge Purple Top turnip roots!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7060.jpg

If all we had was soybeans....the deer would head for greener pastures and unfortunately many if not most landowners make that mistake, planting only a fall "hunting" food supply.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7063.jpg

Whitetails will readily eat soybeans...that much is true

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/PICT0633.jpg

and for some landowners soybeans may be a useful tool

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/PICT1077.jpg

but for many of us soybeans and corn require fencing to protect them and that doesn't make economical sense when other crops are just as effective.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/PICT0319.jpg

If you wish to include soybeans in your habitat program, be certain to use them in conjunction with other crops to provide year around food sources...not just on your farm but all in one central feeding area per 80-120 acres.

While not seen in these photos, we have white clover and brassicas in this field as well and the deer shown travel thru the soybeans to the other two crops

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/Deer%20in%20Soybeans/PICT0656.jpg

You have many options to keep feed in front of your whitetails year around and the following are just a few that work well for me

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

or

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover.

Soybeans overseeded with winter rye, forage radish and red clover in 45% of plot

Plant early maturing soybeans, then as leaves start to yellow overseed the above mentioned crops at 100-150#'s of rye, 5#'s of radish and 15#'s of Mammoth red clover

Rotate the brassicas and soybeans each year

turkeyriver

01-05-2012, 07:40 AM

Just a note for guys who want to grow some corn. As doubletree has said, nitrogen is the key to a good crop. There are farmers spreading urea on soy stubble and then no-tilling corn. The key to this practice is spreading the urea in April while it is still cool and then getting a rain to incorporate it. The urea will stay fairly stable until temps start to rise. I have been spraying liquid nitrogen for years using the same principle, do it early while it's still cool out. Incorporation thru tillage is the surest way to save the N, but not always necessary. As with most things in life, timing is everything. If you happen to have dry fertilizer boxes on your corn planter like I do, you can use those. I turned my corn pop. down to 20,000 and my fertilizer rate to the max at 240 lbs. per acre. Then I double planted the corn at angles. So I ended up with 480lbs. of fertilizer banded with the corn. I spiked my normal corn starter fertilizer with urea so that 480 lbs. consisted of 175lbs. of 0-0-60, 165lbs. of 11-52-0 and 140lbs. of urea. The co-op rep was a little concerned I might burn the corn with such a high rate of N in starter that close to the row, but I had no problems and the corn was fantastic. The beauty of it was with one trip to the plot with just my planter, fertilizer was applied and underground and the corn was planted so that deer couldn't easily walk down the row and nip the silks.

jerred44

01-06-2012, 05:40 PM

In a typical bag of corn and beans, how many acres will one bag of each plant?

dbltree

01-07-2012, 11:43 AM

In a typical bag of corn and beans, how many acres will one bag of each plant?

80,000 seed count in a bag of seed corn which at 28,000 to 32,000 seeds per acre will plant roughly 2 1/2 acres

Soybeans are different sizes so they come bagged in "seeds per pound" anywhere from 2200 to 3200 seeds per pound. Planting rates can vary from 120,000 to 220,000 seeds per acre so a bag will do roughly an acre or less.

dbltree

03-04-2012, 07:28 AM

I get emails from people who are willing to share success and failure and the end results from the habitat work they have done. When they are willing to allow me to share what they have learned in my teaching threads then that helps everyone, including me. There is no one way to create habitat just as there are many ways of successfully harvesting a mature buck, but...there are things and methods that have a higher degree of successful outcomes. Each landowner can look at the various outcomes shared and then make the choices they feel our best for them.

The following is a letter and pictures from a friend in Pennsylvania sharing his results both with fencing, forage soybeans and the use of beans in general.

Paul:

You may not remember me, but last May / June I corresponded with you a few times via email about questions I had on electric fences and soybeans. At that time I was making my second attempt at planting Eagle soybeans. A previous attempt in 2010 was unfenced that resulted in plants that somewhat held their own in regeneration, but never really developed many pods due to the overbrowsing. Last year’s project was to fence a two acre plot with fencing and try Eagle beans again. I would like to say it worked great and all of your recommendations on number of wires, charger type, etc… were spot on. It led to plants over 5’ high (see attached photo) and with some good pod development.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/A1BeanHeight9-1.jpg

What also continued in 2011 was my reading the QDMA and Outreach Outdoors forums. It is in those forums where I can learn from others. It is also where you wrote a thread about fencing forage beans that really hit home for me. Let me explain. As I watched my beans grow behind my protected fence last summer, I could not have been happier. I was having success. However as late August rolled around I started looking at the beans and noticed some plants had pods and some did not. Obviously from the different types of beans in the mixture (Northern Manager’s Mix) caused them to develop at different times. I started to think this may be contradictory to what I planned. I wanted pods for November, but because of the various types, I was not going to get them on all the plants and if I did, they may not have beans inside of them. It was about that time I also read your thread about fencing forage beans. It was like a bulb went off in my head. Yeah I have this great plot of beans, but I defeated the purpose of planting a forage bean. They never could eat the leaves until I took the fence down in late August and by that time, their food choices were changing.

I then made another observation that I believe you also pointed out in one of your writings. Based on my examination of my plot’s pod/bean production, about 75% of the plants had pods with beans inside. The others I believe were the wrong type for our Pennsylvania growing season. Watching them dry I thought that it will still be okay because our rifle season would be starting the first of December and since I passed on all bucks seen with a bow, this is going to be a great food source / attractant for my hunting area. What I learned was yes it was a good food source, but within three weeks they basically cleaned up the plot to bare stems. I think what also helped was that it was a full moon during that time frame and this seemed to make them use the plot heavily at night and eliminated my prized beans quickly. I attached a couple pictures that shows a portion of that plot on Nov. 14th and then a few weeks later. Zoom in and you'll see pods and then on the Dec. picture, nothing.

Nov. 24th

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/a2RoundHillLookingNorth11-24.jpg

Dec 16th....stripped clean!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/a3RoundHillLookingNorth12-16.jpg

I am writing you this to just say that experience is the best teacher and your experience in what works in Iowa is the same as in Pennsylvania. You taught me how to make a great plot but I am now question my plan. When I reviewed the amount of money and time I put into those soybeans for the small window of use, it was not worth it. Next year I think am going back to a brassica mixture because of the volume of food per acre, it has always been a safe / cheap plot and even with snow cover, provides food well into January. I may also compliment those brassica plantings with plots of the cereal mix that you list on Outreach forums. If I did plant beans again in one of my plots, I think I would just buy regular ag. beans (cheaper), fence them and come to terms that they are going to only provide about a 3-4 week window of food in November. Without areas to plant soybean plots large enough not to be fenced and survive heavy browsing, do you think I'm on the right track with just forgetting the soybeans and go with the brassica / cereal grain plan.

Again thanks for all your help and keep writing those threads on various forums and the occasional article for the QDMA.

In response to the last question asked...

do you think I'm on the right track with just forgetting the soybeans and go with the brassica / cereal grain plan.

I can only say that everyone of the landowners I work for have elected to drop soybeans and corn and go with the clover/brassica/rye mix plantings listed below now have proven they are even more effective then either beans or corn and together feed deer year around....making them predictable and easy to pattern...

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot...plant with the rye mix below and soil test for needed P&K/lime requirements. Lacking a soil test I use 400#'s of 6-28-28 and 500#'s of pel lime in my area.

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea, 400#'s of 6-28-28 (or comparable such as 400#'s triple 19 ) Add lime per soil test. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring and no fertilizer is necessary at that time.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas only 100-200#'s of urea may be needed but first time plantings may need to be fertilized and limed as the noted for the brassicas.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

dbltree

03-19-2012, 08:38 PM

Shattering?

There is it seems...much ado about the subject of shattering in soybeans leading many to believe that you must buy this soybean or that to avoid the problem. What most people don't realize, is that most commonly grown ag soybeans are very if not completely shatter resistant! No farmer wants to risk having his crop end up on the ground because of shattering so seed companies endeavor to breed high yielding ag beans that are going to hold beans in the pods not only through a normal harvest season but in fact all the way to spring!

I have had several people tell me they were going to combine their bean plots because deer didn't eat all of them and that would be impossible it they had shattered.

On a recent consult the landowner had various soybean food plots on his large farm, the ones next to cover were stripped bare but other fields in open areas far from good bedding cover were largely intact...uneaten and no shattering what so ever.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/2012-03-15_16-29-42_70.jpg

The cost of shipping soybean seed is very high and there is no reason to when good quality, reasonably priced high yielding ag beans are available at your local co-op anywhere ag crops are grown. It's nearly time to re-plant and these beans are still in the pod and on the stalk

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/2012-03-15_16-29-35_128.jpg

Nothing special or expensive...just common reasonably priced and readily available soybean seed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/2012-03-15_17-17-48_847.jpg

Winter rye and soybeans

Rye overseeded into standing ag soybeans late last August has been keeping deer fed and coming to the same feeding area despite the fact the beans have been gone for months

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_7477.jpg

Grazing is evident

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_7478.jpg

and the rye serves as a cover crop and soil builder to boot...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/IMG_7479.jpg

We have found that soybeans are not nearly as attractive as once thought and the landowner where the beans are still standing was amazed to see that deer mowed his Groundhog forage radish plants to the ground despite being planted right in the middle of soybean plots. While soybeans are no longer a part of our habitat program, you may wish to include them in yours in which case...check with your local ag seed supplier for early maturing soybeans that will allow you to overseed winter rye, forage radish and even red clover as they begin to yellow in late August....;)

risto2351

03-20-2012, 07:26 AM

Shattering?

While soybeans are no longer a part of our habitat program,

Paul,

Does this mean that you are not planting any beans on your property this year?

dbltree

03-21-2012, 02:31 PM

Paul,

Does this mean that you are not planting any beans on your property this year?

yes...that is correct Tony ;)

dbltree

03-27-2012, 06:07 AM

Winter rye in soybeans

Winter rye, red clover and forage radish can all be overseeded into standing soybeans in late August, providing they are early maturing ag soybeans and that makes a great combination and allows one to avoid having a "dirt plot" all winter and spring.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/2012-03-25_16-04-52_876.jpg

Perfect if you are going to rotate to brassicas or other late summer crops

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/2012-03-25_16-05-02_968.jpg

Winter rye is an outstanding cover crop and helps protect and build up soils while feeding whitetails at the same time!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/2012-03-25_16-06-50_667.jpg

Adding red clover and forage radish makes a good thing even better with the red clover providing early spring forage and then fixing nitrogen for the next crop. Overseed 100-150#'s of rye, 10-15#'s of red clover and 5-10#'s of forage radish just as leaves start to yellow in late August and maximize the use of your soybeans....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/2012-03-25_16-58-10_427.jpg

here is yet another example of common ag soybeans planted in central Illinois that were uneaten by deer and are still holding well.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/2012-03-24_12-51-42_396.jpg

I was able to examine these beans closely while on a habitat consult the other day and they are intact and could easily be combined.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/2012-03-24_12-51-50_124.jpg

On other areas of the farm (next to heavy cover) the beans were wiped out early on but these being farther away from premium cover remain for the most part untouched and none have shattered.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/2012-03-24_12-52-18_922.jpg

Good quality ag soybeans are bred not to shatter so don't be misled by comments to the contrary and avoid paying huge shipping costs to ship in seed that you can easily purchase at your local co-op.

On the subject of soybeans...to plant or not to plant? Soybeans have no great magical power to draw deer for miles and in many cases can be easily wiped out, often times before they are inches out of the ground. I can produce more/higher yields of forage for a longer period of time with a combination of other crops and avoid all the problems that accompany soybeans.

All of that said, you may wish to include soybeans in your feeding areas and combined with clovers, brassicas and winter rye (planted separately within the same plot) they can add diversity and when mixed with milo can be a great addition for pheasants as well. The point is that each of you should know that you don't have to grow soybeans to hold deer...it's merely an option that is no better then less expensive and easier to manage crops.... ;)

dbltree

05-02-2012, 08:52 AM

May 2nd, 2012

Winter rye in soybeans

There are few things more effective yet less expensive then overseeding winter rye into standing soybeans as they start to yellow. The rye will germinate easily right on the soil surface once given sufficient moisture...which came late for us in SE Iowa last fall, yet eventually because rye will germinate down to 36 degrees and grow down to 34 degrees...the rye did get moisture and did indeed grow!

You can barely see the soybean stalks for the rye here in early May this spring.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/ryensoybeans1.jpg

The rye provided winter and spring grazing to keep deer fed long after the soybeans were gone and provided excellent soil cover as well.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/rns2-1.jpg

Not a weed to be found thanks to the thick cover and the allelopathic chemicals in the rye roots

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/RnSnoweeds.jpg

I overseeded red clover along with the rye...now a silent partner in improving the soil and attractive to deer now that the rye has reached the unpalatable stage.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/rnc1.jpg

The biomass both above and below ground is phenomenal and the nutrient scavenging abilities of the rye insure that they will not be washed downstream and will be available for the next crop once the rye is killed.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/rns2.jpg

Winter rye is easy to kill via tillage or spraying with clethodim or glyphosate and is easy to no-till corn or soybeans into. The residue can be disced down or tilled under if no-tilling is not an option but no matter how you slice it...the rye is a huge win win when used a a part of your habitat tool chest!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Soybeans/ryemulch.jpg

For best results plant early maturing ag soybeans that will mature in late August and overseed 100-150#'s of winter rye per acre into the standing beans (or corn) as the leaves start to yellow. The combination will provide both grain and green forage that will keep deer coming to your feeding area all fall, winter and spring. Rotate to corn, milo or brassicas so for best results divide your field and plant multiple crop types within that field.... :way: