Nonresident Deer Hunting application

[Blind Sow]

The PROPOSED new nonresident deer hunting application procedure was approved at the December 7, 2000 DNR Commissioner meeting.

Any interested person may make written suggestions or comments on the proposed amendments on or before January 17, 2001. Such written materials should be directed to the Wildlife Bureau Chief, DNR, Wallace State Office Building, Des Moines, IA 50319-0034; fax (515)281-6794.

There will be a public hearing on January 17, 2001 at 10 a.m. in the Fourth Floor Conference Room of the Wallace State Office Building at which time persons may present their views either orally or in writing. At the hearing, persons will be asked to give their names and addresses for the record and to confine their remarks to the subject of the amendments.

The proposed new application procedure is as follows:

"Applications for nonresident deer hunting
licenses must be made through THE ELECTRONIC LICENSING SYSTEM for IOWA (ELSI) telephone order system. Applications will be accepted from the first Saturday in May through the last Sunday in May. No one may submit more than one application during the application period. If applications have been sold in excess of the license quota for any zone or hunting period, a drawing will be held to determine which applicants receive licenses. Licenses or refunds of license fees will be mailed to applicants after the drawing is completed. License agent writing fees, department administrative fees and telephone order charges will not be refunded. If any license quota has not been filled, the excess licenses will be sold first-come, first-served through the telephone ordering system beginning the third Saturday after the close of the application period until the quota has been filled or the last day of the hunting period for which the license is valid, whichever comes first. No one may obtain more than one nonresident deer hunting license. Hunters may apply as individuals or as a group of up to fifteen applicants. All members of a group will be accepted or rejected together in the drawing. Members of a group that is rejected may purchase licenses individually if excess licenses are available.

a. PREFERENCE POINTS
Each individual applicant that is unsuccessful in the drawing will be assigned one preference point for each consecutive year that they apply and are unsuccessful. Preference points will not accrue in a year in which an applicant fails to apply, but the applicant will retain any preference points previously earned. Once an applicant receives a license, all preference points will be removed until they are again unsuccessful in a drawing. Preference points will apply to any zone or hunting period for which a hunter applies.
The first license drawing each year will be made from the pool of applicants with the most preference points. If licenses are still available after the first drawing, subsequent drawings will be made from pools of applicants with sucessively fewer preference points and continue until the license quota is reached or all applicants have received licenses. Members of a group application will be drawn from a pool with the fewest preference points assigned to any member of the group.

Doug Clayton
State Conservation Officer

Doug,

Thanks for sharing this information to our non-resident friends!

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/confboardpics/deericon.jpg

Iowa Whitetail

[nrrick]

doug, thanks for the nr info. is there still talk about losing the 35% cap on nr bowtags? nrrick

[Admin]

I hope you don't mind if I interupt...

Here is a link to the IBA Legislative page IBA (http://www.iowabowhunters.org/legislation_9_00.asp) and I to am interested in where we stand. I am concerned about the low number of whitetail spottings in Western Iowa. We have harvested a 100,000 deer a year for the past 3 years and the year 2000 could be very well the same.

Currently I am in interested in the IBA's position on many issues.

[Blind Sow]

I went off the IBA board in Aug 1999 (afer 9 years) so I don't know what the IBA's current stance is concerning the 35%. You should contact the IBA officers (look the IBA's website) and ask their view.

Doug

[Patrick]

My personal opinion on the 35% (don't know if it is the IBA's opinion) is that the 35% cap should be removed. If a tag is going to go to a nonresident I'd rather see it in the hands of a bowhunter than a shotgun hunter.

My simple reasoning is as follows. Granted a few more nonresident bowhunters will shoot big buck, if they do I'll be the first to shake their hand. However, overall the success rate is lower for bowhunting than for any other weapon. Thus fewer bucks end up being harvested and we manage to conserve a little more of a valuable resource.

Personally, after having numerous groups of resident shotgun hunters trespassing on land which they do not have permission to hunt. We might be better off putting more tags in nonresident's hands, maybe they're a bit more responsible?

[snuffer]

BlindSow, Does this mean if we applied in 2000 and didn't draw,we have a point,or does that start in the 2001 draw.Thank You for all you do on this sight as it does help very much.

[wibohnt]

I am also interested when the preference points system will begin. I am also curious when these proposed changes will be approved or rejected. I personally like the preference system I can at least count on on tag every other year and since I am an Iowa land owner that is alot better than the possiblility of being unlucky in the drawing and not being able to hunt my own property for 3 or 4 years in a row.

[Blind Sow]

Yes, if you were not successful in getting a NR 2000 tag you should have one preference point going into this year's (2001) drawing.

Doug Clayton

[Blind Sow]

More than likely changes will go through. The only real change is the application process (obtaining a license through ELSI--electronic license) vs the old paper/mail-in application. The preference point system is in place.

Doug Clayton

[wibohnt]

Blind sow, I imagine if you were to draw an anterless tag you would not get a preference point. I have always stated on the application I would accept an anterless tag if not chosen for a buck tag simply because being in the Iowa woods in November is the incredible. However, if I would not gain a preference by taking a doe tag there is no way I would ever accept one again. I would think many other N/R's would do the same. I will do my part for QDM but not if it costs me a chance at a buck tag the next year.

I have also heard they have talked about N/R landowners such as myself being guaranteed anterless tags if not drawing a buck tag. Again I would hope this would not affect your ability to gain a preference point.

[This message has been edited by wibohnt (edited 01-12-2001).]

[Blind Sow]

I checked with Terry Little, head wildlife biologist in Des Moines, and he verified what I thought---if you accept ANY type of NR deer license, either sex or antlerless only, that will nullify any preference points you have accumulated. So if you want your points to add up DO NOT check the box saying you will accept an antlerless license.

As far as NR landowners getting antlerless tags nothing had happened as of yet. Our legislature just convened this week so the whole process is just starting up.

Doug Clayton

[PLK]

It might be noted that the 1500 poor saps that accepted antlerless tags in 2000, unknowingly put themseleves out of the running for a 2001 buck tag. I've heard that many of them are understandably upset, because the were not forewarned of the preference points until after the drawing.
I suspect that there will be few applicants for NR antlerless tags in the future, once they find out that by accepting one (every year) they will never get a buck tag.
At the start, it appeared that offering antlerless tags would give NR landowners the
option of still being able to hunt and at least harvest some meat. (after all who else but NR landowners would pay $150 to come to Iowa and shoot a doe?)
As it stands now that option is all but eliminated. The IBA supported a bill that would have allowed NR landowners to purchase an antleress tag, if they did not draw in the regular drawing, but the IDNR didn't follow thru and attempt to get the bill passed.
As Officer Clayton has noted, the new legislative session may bring new action.
The IDNR has a web page to keep everyone apprised of upcoming legislative activity, but as of yet, it is not up and running.

[This message has been edited by PLK (edited 01-12-2001).]

[This message has been edited by PLK (edited 01-12-2001).]

[Jim Wilder]

I as a non-resident looking in have been bowhunting in Iowa foor the last 6 years that is if I get drawn which I have not for the last two years. The resident of Iowa better hope that non-resident land owners do not ever get automatic deer tags. My reasoning is this just look at places like Pike county Ill. and almost all of North West Mo. If you don,t have your own ground or if you don,t pay a outrageous lease you will not have a place to hunt. This is not a maybe this is for sure. I urge all the resident hunters of Iowa to keep their Legislation on top of this. You already have wealthy resident buying all they can get their hands on and then charging redicelous prices to hunt. (Also do away with PARTY HUNTING)that iis as bad as Mo usinng rifles and hunting durinng the rut.

[HBH]

Blind Sow,
Good of you to keep us NRs updated!
My questions may have already been addressed, if so please forgive me. Have any #s been, posted, for the 2000 drawing as to how many NR were not drawn, (by hunting zone)? Has there been any movement on the # of NR (Buck) licenses that will be available? Has there ever been a brake down by season ie. 1st. shotgun season requests vs. 2nd. shotgun season requests?

MANY THANKS

HBH

[Tom Long]

I lived in Iowa for 13 years. Unfortunately, I did not start bow hunting until after I was transferred. I have hunted as a non-resident for several years, until legislation was passed that limited the number on non-resident bow tags for bucks to 35%. People, this is a joke, the non-residents bow hunters are not the ones taking all the big deer. Any bow hunter worth is salt would love to see a big buck, but far more good bucks walk away from a bow hunter. Most of us would pass on a questionable shot rather than lose a trophy. It's not the non residents that are killing the big deer, it is poaching and party hunting. Iowa is losing a lot of $$ both in the DNR from the sale of tags and your area businesses.You have a tremendous resource that is being guarded to extreme limits. I am very disappointed by the current regulations, I look forward to hunting in Iowa every year, not for the taking but the opportunity to harvest a REAL TROPHY. In all the years that I have hunted it was my choice to take a smaller buck, a doe or come home with nothing. I have opted to come home with nothing on several occassions, knowing that I had a great time in the Iowa woods. I will tell you this as a former resident, and now a non-resident, I don't go where I don't have permission. This is without a doubt the most important rule of hunting and one that I witnessed violated many a time by residents when I lived in Iowa. Bowhunters, resident or non-resident are without a doubt far more responsible than many resident hunters that pursue deer, coyotes and pheasants etc. I truly appreciate my time in the woods, and after not drawing a tag in Iowa for each of the last two years have alomst lost my interest. It would be interesting to see the expression on the faces of Iowa hunters coming to Missouri to hunt with high power rifles, participating in a drawing, paying $150+ being handed a doe tag and told to have a good day. This is not what bow or gun hunting is all about. How any serious bow hunter could feel this threatened by non residents is beyond me. I will admit that there are jerks in every sport. That being the case, then let's weed them out, there are mechanisms in place to take the bad guys down. Thanks for the opportunity, Tom Long, Stockton, MO.

[BugleMIn]

Look at what we have to contend with if a trip out west is planned for us?

Arizona has a 10% cap on nonresident elk tags. New Mexico charges $750 for an elk tag in a good unit during the rut and has a cap. Colorado is now upping its elk tags to $450. I'll pay it, but it would be nice to get drawn more than once every 7 years.

As far as party hunting goes we must regulate ourselves or the Anti's will do it for us. We must stand united to battle the opposing forces of Antis, we can't bicker among ourselves. Bowhunting VS Shotgunning, compound bow VS long bow, it isn't worth arguing over. Just be open for change if it benefits the sport of hunting as a whole.

But to open up our licenses unrestricted to non-residents will never happen if the hunters have a say. All you have to do is look around at what has happened in other states. Non-residents are already buying cheap hunting ground waiting for the day. And soon you will have to pay a farmer or join a hunt club to hunt. No way! Iowa doesn't have enough public ground to go around if that happens.

[Blind Sow]

HBH

I believe the figures you are requesting are on the NR application, or at least, they have been in the past. If they aren't call the DNR (515) 281-8688 and ask for the license bureau. They should be able to access those numbers for you.

There will be no change in the number of NR tags for 2001. The legislature just convened a little while ago and if a change was to be made it wouldn't go into effect until the following year. There has been some talk of raising it to 10K but that's all--talk.

Doug Clayton

[HBH]

Blind Sow,

Thanks for the info. I have read, the #s for the past years on the application sheets. I'll check and see if they are available at this time with the DNR for the 2000 season. I sure enjoy Iowa, just to see a good buck, I don't have to kill one to make it worthwhile. Although many NRs would like to hunt Iowa every year, myself aswell I would be concerned with much more pressure. Party hunting, in my view is both good and bad, yes it helps control deer #s but, I have seen too many Iowa residents shooting at does and 1 1/2 old bucks just for "target practice" their words not mine. And I know many of those shot dont even get brought out of the woods. I cant hunt this way, but it is traditional for many Iowa residents. And I dont see that changing. It has been my great fortune to have hunted Iowa for 4 years. I understand why some residents dont want more NR hunters. I do think if Iowa is to remain a state where you can have a chance to see a 4 1/2 yr. old buck, change is going to have to take place, and those changes are going to have to start with the residents. Most of us dont realize the value of something untill it is gone.

MANY THANKS

HBH

[bundy]

I would like to give my "opinion" on the NR deer hunters wanting to have more tags available. I went to colorado two years ago before their big price increase(from 250 to $450). Now for me to go on an elk hunt out west it will cost me a small fotune. Plus your not garanteed even to get a tag. Everywhere else in the country has similar situations for a chance at a trophy of a given species. Why should we be any different. Everyone knows about the quality of deer in Iowa and the midwest and people would be flocking here like snow geese if tags were not limited. I hope I nver see the day when I have to pay money for the right to be able to hunt the property I have been hunting for years. But it could happen if to many NR hunters with big money come in and buy off the farmers. It is already happening now. A friend of mine had it happen to him. I'm not against allowing NR hunters to hunt in Iowa. I just agree with the limits we have now. If you get a chance to hunt big whitetails in Iowa enjoy it to the fullest ,just like I will if I ever make it out west again to hunt elk.

[DC]

You can deny it all you want, but population growth and urban developement are the hunters greatest threats. NR hunters are our comrades - lets treat them like they are. I also believe in reasonable limits on NR tags. However, 6,000 tags statewide is not reasonable. I don't have the magic number, but 10,000 is far more reasonable than 6,000. In addition, the NR anysex tags should be good statewide and antlerless tags should be restricted by zone for management purposes. That's just common sense.

I also believe that resident hunters, primarily the party hunters, and poachers are a much greater threat to the quality of our deer herd than the NR who comes to Iowa to hunt mature deer only. I know of several large groups of party hunters in my area that kill everything with a spike and wonder why they very seldom get to harvest a trophy, yet they seldom shoot does, so the 'deer management' argument for party hunting is not a legitimate argument.

One of the groups did quite well this year on mature bucks, however, all of the bucks were illegal deer because they trespassed to get most of them and I was told that two of them were hi-powered. This group got kicked off of one property because they were chasing deer in the fields with their trucks. No wonder it is getting more difficult to get access to land when the party hunters leave their impression on landowners. I would venture to say that this group of 14 people hunt at least 20,000 acres. That is almost 1500 acres each!

It is time to end party hunting before it ends everyones hunting and it is time to welcome ethical, conscientious, hard hunting non-residents without discrimination as to what legal weapon they choose to hunt with.

Randy Willey (DC)
Member IBA, IOGA, & Life Member NAHC

[Ogz]

Party hunting is a time honored tradition in this state, and most likely a tradition that isn't going anywhere. If the state were to all of a sudden change the rules, I believe that we would have many more unfortunate incidences of law breaking and such. Party hunting and group hunting are almost one in the same, and I guarantee you that every hunter in the state that hunts with the same group of friends every year would still hunt with that same group of friends. We need to focus not so much on the laws, which some of you seem to think aren't followed anyway, and instead focus our attention on education. If we could convince half of our states deer hunters to let the little basket racks go, we would all get shots at 120" and better deer almost every year. It will take years to get this to work, and there will always be those that give hunting a bad image, but through persistance and proper management, we could have THE best deer hunting in the world. We need to start small and let our actions work for themselves. A group that gets big deer every year will soon have other groups following suit and so on. We just need more educated hunters, not a change in the way that they hunt.

[DC]

Ogz is correct in that we need to educate the deer hunters. Believe me I have tried, but most hunters just don't get it and I am beginning to wonder if they ever will.

On my side of the road, me and now my neighbors, who all generally stand hunt, are harvesting big mature bucks every year and our doe population is in check - with the exception of one property (where everyone in the county hunts but no mature bucks have been harvested for at least 6 years). Across the road they party hunt in a group of 30 guys and continue to harvest everything with a spike and very rarely end up with a trophy (the last one was 3 seasons ago). Their doe population is out of control because they would rather shoot a spike than a doe. The same group knows of our harvest results and they tried to slip in this year. I caught them, chastised them, and made them admit they were wrong for doing it. Next year I will call the sheriff and the DNR.

I am not a proponent of drive hunting deer but as Ogz said, we will probably never get rid of it. However, there is a radical difference between a drive and a party hunt - only in a party hunt can one guy kill all of the deer for the entire party. (I personally don't understand how someone can call themself a hunter and put their tag on a deer harvested by someone else.)

Although I do not participate, I do believe small, passive drives are a legitimate way to hunt deer.

Have any of you seen any of the negative press regarding party hunting in the newspapers this year? I read 4 feature articles in the Cedar Rapids Gazette during the deer hunting seasons and all of them were against party hunting - and these were hunters, landowners, and farmers that had previously participated in party hunting. Party hunting is not doing our sport any good at all. I know of several landowners that allowed all types of deer hunting until the party hunters came through. Now they allow no one to hunt - regardless of weapon.

I could list several 'time honored traditions' that have gone by the wayside and that our society now can hardly believe our predecessors ever allowed them.

- Party hunting encourages trespassing - my biggest beef;
- Party hunting produces more wounded and unrecovered game than any other method of hunting because most shots are at animals on the run AND recovery efforts are minimal because the drive must go on;
- Party hunts are unnecessarily dangerous for participants, nearby residents, and motorists passing by;
- Party hunting creates disputes between parties and even within parties regarding who actually made the kill;
- Party hunting contributes to the harvest of immature animals - because you can't accurately judge an animal when it is on a full tilt run;
- Party hunting contributes to over harvest in some areas;

Can anyone tell me some legitimate benefits from party hunting?

[Ogz]

I agree that "party" hunting in it's true form can be a bad deal. The point that I was trying to make is that the groups of hunters that always hunt together will most likely always hunt together, call it party hunting or whatever.

[Jim Wilder]

Ha> it,s good to hear there is some inteligent people in Iowa (Down with Party Hunting) Why would any real hunter want to put his tag on someone elses deer.

[Bobcat]

WOW, I didn't relise until I viewed this thread that Iowa allowed part hunting. Thay's a bad deal, but like many ancient
traditions here in PA, it'll be hell to
get rid of. I don't know about the rest of you, but there is no way I'm puttin my tag on any animal that someone else killed, just my own opinion.

bobcat

[trper]

There are alot of NR that would like to see our tags increased. I can understand why. There are alot of R that would also like to see them increased. The bottom line is it means money! You can already see the increase in leased land the past few years. Do you want to keep what you have? Why do you think there are trophy deer in Iowa? Good management and less pressure. Please don't tell me that 4,000 more tags won't put any more pressure on our deer or make it harder for someone to find a place to hunt.
Tell your legistlative rep that you do not want them to increase the number of tags in our state. The ones that do are looking at it as a financial benefit. They really don't care if a NR kills a little deer or big deer. They just want the money. Personally I could care less if I hunt deer in another state. Why would I want to, I hunt in one of the best states in the country. I guess I am maybe just alittle selfish. Oh well!

[DC]

trper,

You stated "You can already see the increase in leased land the past few years."

Since there has been no increase in the number of NR tags and a decrease in the number of outfitters statewide, what do you attribute the increase in leasing to?

My opinion is it is from more resident hunters wanting quality hunting, because contrary to popular belief, there is not a P&Y buck behind every tree.

[trper]

DC,
I respect your opinion and you may be right about the residents seeking quality hunting.
I do know there has been an increase in the amount of outfitters located here in Southwest Iowa, not a decrease. There may not be a Pope and Young around every tree but I bet you there are alot more here in Iowa than a few other states depending on what part of the State you hunt in. I guess I feel that would not be the case if we increased the amount of NR tags in the State.
I know its a hot issue and I will continue to remain optomistic about increasing the number of tags until somone can persuade me that it is a good idea and will not effect the quality and quantity of our trophy deer.
Also that it will not effect the ability to find a good place to hunt by just asking permission from a land owner and having him tell you yes instead of no because he has leased his property to someone out of state.
Once again I know that sounds selfish but I appreciate what I have now and don't want to lose it!.

[trper]

DC,
I respect your opinion and you may be right about the residents seeking quality hunting.
I do know there has been an increase in the amount of outfitters located here in Southwest Iowa, not a decrease. There may not be a Pope and Young around every tree but I bet you there are alot more here in Iowa than a few other states depending on what part of the State you hunt in. I guess I feel that would not be the case if we increased the amount of NR tags in the State.
I know its a hot issue and I will continue to remain optomistic about increasing the number of tags until somone can persuade me that it is a good idea and will not effect the quality and quantity of our trophy deer.
Also that it will not effect the ability to find a good place to hunt by just asking permission from a land owner and having him tell you yes instead of no because he has leased his property to someone out of state.
Once again I know that sounds selfish but I appreciate what I have now and don't want to lose it!.

[Ogz]

Having hunted in Pike County Illinois for the first time this year, I pray to the good lord that we don't open up the license quota as some think that we should. I agree that the present number may not be the right one, but there does need to be a limit. There are and will always be pros and cons for both sides of this arguement. Our best bet is to just work together to make the most out of what we have.

[BOWDUDE]

I think there has been an increase in leased hunting, I also think there has been an increase in deer hunting in general. We all know it takes more time in the woods to bow hunt, and bow hunting is becoming very popular. Which in turn opened more than just a shotgun weekend for farmers to give permission to hunt. I think there are alot of people here in Iowa willing to pay to hunt, so why open up more NR tags which will just increase prices. ( I do not pay to hunt, but my neighbor leases his land, and I would rather see someone who pays taxes here given the first chance.) Maybe I'm a little selfish in that aspect.

[nodriver]

why shouldn't farmers be able to make money charging deer hunters for the use of their land when most of the farmers are on the verge of bankruptcy most of the time anyway, and why shouldn't this group of potential hunters include the out of staters that are willing to pay money and take time to come to Iowa for the chance to shoot one deer. I think that it is very inconsistent for Iowa hunters to resist an increase in nonresident hunters using a bow when Iowa continues the incredibly wasteful and unsportsmanlike practice of party hunting which just results in the indiscriminate slaughter of many quality deer and contributes to the massive problem of trespassing and disrespect for the fine tradition of hunting in general. Think about it.

[trper]

nodriver,
Though I respect you opinion I don't think it is fair to discriminate against those that party hunt just because it is not what you consider to be ethical hunting and the useless slaughter of innocent deer. The shotgun hunters have done quite well here in Iowa without the negative aspects that are attributed to deer hunting. How tough can it be to go sit in the timber or field and shoot a buck at 250 yards with a high powered rifle. I personally don't consider that to very challanging or ethical but I am not critical of those who decide it is for them. Being a avid bowhunter as I am does not give us the right to be self ritchious when it comes to hunting and dictate the rules of fair play to the shotgun hunters in our state. If there is any issue that comes to mind in regards to party hunting it is the safety issue, not how many deer they kill. The problem is that a large majority of the party hunters are individuals who hunt just this one time a year, could care less at times about whether they shoot a buck or doe. They shoot slugs at anything that moves. That is what makes party hunting dangerous. I do not believe they effect the quality of deer that we as bow hunters have the opportunity to shoot before the gun hunters get there fair shake. It is more of a family tradition and a get together of old friends once a year that makes up a party. Take my word for it, party hunting here is Iowa is here to stay no matter what. There are numerous hunters in our state legislative body and believe me if they deer hunt they party hunt. Just feel fortunate if your a bow hunter that you have two months to hunt before they get a chance to. Maybe they don't like to hunt with a bow and are jelous that the bow hunters take to many of the trophy deer and start complaining to their legislatures about that!Hmmm! Just my opinion!

[BOWDUDE]

Nodriver,
I did not say that farmers should not lease their land, nor did I say we should quit letting out of staters come and hunt in Iowa. I just agree with those who say money is the main reason they will consider more out of state tags.
Also I am not a party hunter, but I have to agree it is a Iowa way of life that is here to stay. I know lots of good people who party hunt and I see nothing wrong with that. I do not agree with groups that have 20 guys who say if its brown its down. Most of those groups leave untagged deer in the timber and to me thats a waste of good meat.

[nodriver]

to those that defend party hunting, i would say that first of all it is hardly a tradition since deer hunting in iowa only goes back to the early l950s and it is certainly not a national tradition, and in fact it is illegal in most states including those that have long deer traditions such as new england and the south. party hunting was basically just an efficient way to gather meat by a large group of people. Nationally Iowans are considered primitive, unsporting and ignorant because of party hunting. family traditions around deer hunting do not have to involve party hunting any more than pheasant hunting has to involve shooting sitting birds in ditches along the road, another Iowa tradition that still goes on. perhaps party hunting should be limited to antlerless deer only in certain southern iowa counties where there is an overabundance of deer. On the subject of firearms, modern rifled shotguns and in line blackpowdeder rifles have made the distinction between rifles and shotguns somewhat academic and with coyote hunters blasting away with their rifles what is the point of shotguns only anymore.

[BW]

Being a lifelong bowhunter myself, I also suggest caution when bashing the shotgun hunters here in Iowa. Party hunting may not be our cup of tea, But I did not see enough info on nodriver's profile to recognize an authority on sportsmanship.

Most of us that have been around since Iowa deer hunting started realize that the bowhunters and others have it made because the shotgun hunters let it be so. If they organized like the IBA, guess who would be hunting November?

It appears to me for the most part we are all able to do our own thing without picking on others. We are all killing or wounding deer at one time or another, so who is to say what is the right way. We need to rake our own back yards before raking others. There are plenty of people bowhunting and muzzleloading that could use some preaching besides the party hunters.

Please leave the nastiness at the bowsite.

[This message has been edited by BW (edited 02-16-2001).]

[BOWDUDE]

If what nodriver says is true, then nationally everyone thinks we are primitive, unsporting, and ignorant then they might as well think we are selfish too. If they think that way maybe they should think twice before they apply for a Iowa deer tag.

[bundy]

I agree with you BOWDUDE.

[BUCK]

I agree with BOWDUDE also. I am a lifelong bowhunter also and I have ran into alot of hunters and I think that 90% of them are some of the nicest guys and some ladies that I have ever known. I think that us Iowans are more unprimitive(if thats the appropriate word) and most sporting people. But thats just my opinion, Thanks

[This message has been edited by BUCK (edited 02-17-2001).]

...primitive,unsporting and ignorant? If you speak face to face with Iowans the way you have on this forum, I would hope you'd be escorted to the state line! With an attitude towards Iowans and Iowa regulations as you have, my suggestion to you is to stay in your own state to hunt deer.

[Micah35]

I would just like to reply to some of the statements made by nodriver. He said that deer hunting in Iowa is not a tradition because it is only fifty years old. That also must mean that turkey hunting in Iowa isn't a tradition either. Well I have to disagree with him on that, if your family or group of friends does something annually for five decades regardless of what it is I think it would be considered a tradition therefore making deer hunting a great Iowa tradition. Another statement that he makes saying that shotgun only is not reasonable any more because of adavances in technology in muzzleloaders and other guns. I don't believe that the IDNR has shotgun only for reasons of saftey only I think that the main reason is because it would be too easy in most parts of the state with a road every mile, it wouldn't take much to get into rifle range of bucks I know while scouting I could have easily gotten into rifle range of some very nice bucks. I also think that one reason we are blessed with have so many trophy bucks in our state is because of our shotgun only seasons that are held after the rut. I think if you look nationaly at states that produce large numbers of large bucks that they probably have the same types of seasons as Iowa.

Congrats BOWDUDE...it's unanamous!! With opinions like that, let's be selfish. I don't participate in party hunting because I don't like the concept of party hunting. But let's not condem those that enjoy it. I know many people who meet up once a year during shotgun season for the freindships they have made over the years. They're residents of Iowa also.

[azbuckbuster]

HEY IM NEW TO THIS FORUM AND I LIKE IT ALREADY. I LIVE AND HUNT IN ARIZONA BUT I HAVE ALOT OF RELATIVES IN IOWA THEY LIVE IN CLINTON. WELL ANYWAYS I AM HOPING TO GET A TAG FOR DEER OUT THERE AND HUNT WITH MY UNCLE IN ZONE 8 IF I CAN GET A TAG. COULD SOMEONE PLEASE INFORM ME ABOUT HOW HARD IT IS TO GET A NON RESIDENT ARCHERY TAG OR SHOTGUN TAG AND IF I CAN ENTER ONLY FOR ZONE 8 SO THAT IF I DONT GET DRAWN FOR THAT ZONE I DONT GET A TAG. ALSO IVE NEVER HUNTED EASTERN WHITE TAILS, JUST THE WESTERN MULEYS WE GOT HERE AND SOME COUES WHITE TAILS. JUST CURIOS HOW YOU GUYS HUNT THEM AND HOW GOOD IT IS AROUND ZONE 8. WHEN IM HUNTIN MULEYS I USUALLY STILL HUNT THEM OR SOMETIMES MAKE A GROUND BLIND AND HIDE WHERE I KNOW SOME WILL PASS. THANKS.

[azbuckbuster]

HEY IM NEW TO THIS FORUM AND I LIKE IT ALREADY. I LIVE AND HUNT IN ARIZONA BUT I HAVE ALOT OF RELATIVES IN IOWA THEY LIVE IN CLINTON. WELL ANYWAYS I AM HOPING TO GET A TAG FOR DEER OUT THERE AND HUNT WITH MY UNCLE IN ZONE 8 IF I CAN GET A TAG. COULD SOMEONE PLEASE INFORM ME ABOUT HOW HARD IT IS TO GET A NON RESIDENT ARCHERY TAG OR SHOTGUN TAG AND IF I CAN ENTER ONLY FOR ZONE 8 SO THAT IF I DONT GET DRAWN FOR THAT ZONE I DONT GET A TAG. ALSO IVE NEVER HUNTED EASTERN WHITE TAILS, JUST THE WESTERN MULEYS WE GOT HERE AND SOME COUES WHITE TAILS. JUST CURIOS HOW YOU GUYS HUNT THEM AND HOW GOOD IT IS AROUND ZONE 8. WHEN IM HUNTIN MULEYS I USUALLY STILL HUNT THEM OR SOMETIMES MAKE A GROUND BLIND AND HIDE WHERE I KNOW SOME WILL PASS. THANKS.