Tree Planting

[dbltree]

Anyone have information on direct seeding cedars?

That's a new one for me Travis but here's a place that sells seed...

Timber Management (http://www.timbermanagementandseed.com/timbermanagement/Store.aspx)

Around here it seems like RC's "direct seed" everywhere but where I want them! :D

[Nontypcl1]

My NRCS guy has been encouraging me to do a direct seeding after I finish some brush management. Dogwoods, elderberry, cedars and ninebark where all recommended. He suggested prepping the area by killing any sod and at least scratch the surface a little with a harrow or small disk then drag or lightly disc in seed

[Nontypcl1]

The Iowa State Forest Nursery will not be handling red cedars for a couple years due to disease problems and while there are many other sources, this is the least expensive source I have found thus far.

Chief River Nursery (https://www.chiefrivernursery.com/products/template/product_detail.php?IID=152)

If anyone locates other comparable nurseries/prices please share....:)


After looking at their price breaks I would be willing to split an order with someone in central or south central iowa. I don't need 500 but 250-350 I can handle

[jw_wildfire]

My NRCS guy has been encouraging me to do a direct seeding after I finish some brush management. Dogwoods, elderberry, cedars and ninebark where all recommended. He suggested prepping the area by killing any sod and at least scratch the surface a little with a harrow or small disk then drag or lightly disc in seed

Check with your district forester. They will take a look at your site for you and develop a detailed plan for you to follow. All free of charge. I have not seen any of those species direct seeded, but I am in NE Iowa and the soils are quite different than southern Iowa.

[sadam]

Anyone have pictures of a cedar planting that is around 5 years old? I am curious to see growth over that time span. Thanks in advance if you have any.

[LoessHillsArcher]

Got the shipment of ProTex tree tubes in. They can be purchased here Forestry Suppliers (http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/product_pages/View_Catalog_Page.asp?mi=1623)

I started assembling them this weekend and had a few take aways from the start of the assembly process. I thought I'd share some things I noticed and will be testing out over the next few years.

To begin with. If you order a lot remember these may come in on a semi. :? That makes delivery to certain locations (like apartments) tricky.

2nd - don't plan on assembling them using the tabs that are designed to go together with. Dbltree posted before how animals will easily open the tubes if only using the tabs to hold them together. I'm going to test little zip ties and even household staples on them... we're using wire to hold the tube to the post so those also will be used to hold the tube together. Also you can use the holes already supplied by the tabs to run the zip tie though!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/iowadeerhunter/Number%20two/100_1718.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/iowadeerhunter/Number%20two/100_1717.jpg
In the end this will also give you a larger tube than if you used the tabs...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/iowadeerhunter/Number%20two/100_1709.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/iowadeerhunter/Number%20two/100_1712.jpg

3rd - these tubes don't come ventilated, you'll want to drill holes in the tubes for air flow holes to allow the cool air in the tubes in the fall so the trees can properly harden off. Also a good idea to not put holes in the bottom foot or so, that way applying herbicide is a little safer. I made that mistake on the first batch I drilled... going to have to duct tape those holes up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/iowadeerhunter/Number%20two/100_1706.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/iowadeerhunter/Number%20two/100_1707-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/iowadeerhunter/Number%20two/100_1713.jpg

4th - these tubes aren't super solid, so you'll want a solid stake to hold them in it seems.

5th - assemble shiny side out

6th - when assembling them, the tubes are a bear to curl together because they are kinda deformed. So I used a few rachet straps and curled 20-30 of them up as tight as I could in a 'tube shape' and after 15 minutes they had held that shape pretty well temorarily allowing for MUCH easier assembly.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/iowadeerhunter/Number%20two/100_1708-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/iowadeerhunter/Number%20two/100_1714.jpg

7th - About the only time I'd see it being smart to use these tubes is if you are doing a large scale planting and wanted a bit of cost savings. They are a bit cheaper than any other tube out there. Make sure to 'request a quote' on the Forestry Suppliers website and they may cut you a nice deal! However, these tubes take a bit of time to assemble. So if you're short on time I'd stear clear of these and as Paul suggested earlier, order from Mike at Timber Management and Seed (http://www.timbermanagementandseed.com/) He has solid, 5ft tubes, that require no assembly, are already vented, already have zip ties on them, and are $2.50 each.

But we'll post how the ProTex blue tubes work for us. We're happy with them so far and they look like they'll serve their purpose and do it very well!

[letemgrow]

Dang Jordan!! You saved me some time in assembly. Love the rachet strap idea!!

[LoessHillsArcher]

Dang Jordan!! You saved me some time in assembly. Love the rachet strap idea!!
Man I was really starting to regret the decision to get these tubes before trying the rachet strap molding deal... helps a bunch!

[Nontypcl1]

Good advice on the Protex tubes.

I recently purchased some of the rigid mesh tubes from Ben meadows for this fall's tree planting and I sure regret it now. In about 3 days time the deer either knocked over or shredded 1/2 of the 200 tubes I put on. This is right along a road and close to a house! After fixing those I decided to check on the shrub planting I did this past spring in my sanctuary where I used the mesh tubes as well. I hadn't been in there since spraying for weeds this past spring and man was I disappointed. Out of the 300 I put on only 50 or so were still standing. Talk about frustrating:mad:

I had questioned on whether or not to use the rigid mesh tubes after seeing dbltree's results with them. Well, I wasn't able to afford the solid tubes this year so I went the cheap route and used the mesh tubes. I will certainly never do that again. Now its actually going to cost more money and a lot more time to redo all that the deer ruined.

Darn deer anyway. I think I might just spend rest of the season hunting over top of my tree plantings and shoot every deer the even looks wrong at them;)

[Nontypcl1]

LoessHills,

If you don't mind me asking what did they quote you for the Pro Tex tubes?

[letemgrow]

Good advice on the Protex tubes.

I recently purchased some of the rigid mesh tubes from Ben meadows for this fall's tree planting and I sure regret it now. In about 3 days time the deer either knocked over or shredded 1/2 of the 200 tubes I put on. This is right along a road and close to a house! After fixing those I decided to check on the shrub planting I did this past spring in my sanctuary where I used the mesh tubes as well. I hadn't been in there since spraying for weeds this past spring and man was I disappointed. Out of the 300 I put on only 50 or so were still standing. Talk about frustrating:mad:

I had questioned on whether or not to use the rigid mesh tubes after seeing dbltree's results with them. Well, I wasn't able to afford the solid tubes this year so I went the cheap route and used the mesh tubes. I will certainly never do that again. Now its actually going to cost more money and a lot more time to redo all that the deer ruined.

Darn deer anyway. I think I might just spend rest of the season hunting over top of my tree plantings and shoot every deer the even looks wrong at them;)

Use the rigid on top of 4 foot tubes and you may see less destruction.

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k445/pes1979/Trees%20on%20the%20Farm/100_0405.jpg

[letemgrow]

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k445/pes1979/Trees%20on%20the%20Farm/100_0396-1.jpg

[LoessHillsArcher]

LoessHills,

If you don't mind me asking what did they quote you for the Pro Tex tubes?

We got the 60" tubes and they are priced on the website at $2.40 for 300+

But you can request a quote and we got 750 tubes for $1.91 each plus $110 shipping. Ended up being about $2.06 a tube. We've got a bale of electric fencing wire we need to use up so didn't have to buy any of that extra. But we will have to buy zip ties to hold them together, which will add slightly to the cost but I'm guessing we shouldn't pay but another $30 for zip ties. So in the end we saved a few hundred bucks and hopefully will get another planting out of the tubes 7-10 years down the road!

[Hardwood11]

Anyone have pictures of a cedar planting that is around 5 years old? I am curious to see growth over that time span. Thanks in advance if you have any.

here is a photo of a 7 year old cedar row next to some native grasses, great area for pheasants and there are deer bedding it in now

[Century Outdoors]

can ya help me plant a blueberry bush?

[letemgrow]

can ya help me plant a blueberry bush?


Get the soils right, 4.5 to 5.5 ph, with lots of organic matter on a raised bed and you should be good to go.

Cottonseed meal, sulphur and a few others can be used to lower the pH.

[letemgrow]

I guess I missed this, but some were wanting eastern red cedar....the MDC does have them listed this year for sale. 8 bucks per 25 seedlings.

http://extra.mdc.mo.gov/cgi-bin/mdcdevpub/apps/seedlings/search.cgi?record=all

[LoessHillsArcher]

I tested the staples in the ProTex tree tubes and they did not work at holding up to a lot of force. I would NOT suggest using them as a primary source for holding the tubes together. We will put a staple on the tops and bottoms so the tubes 'hold their form better' so to speak, but a buck could easily take a tube apart if staples were the only tool used to hold them together. Just wanted to clarify what we found when working with these tubes!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v461/iowadeerhunter/Number%20two/100_1718.jpg

[IQDM]

With the first big snow fall on its way and temps in the mid 50s today, I took to the one final item on my "fall list"... "Winter list" starts this weekend!
In the outlined section below I have an area that is mainly Reed Canary Grass with scattered Red Osier Dogwood. The house is not mine...
My goals for this area is to create bedding along the river and screen the view of the neighbors house. I will be planting Norway Spruce/Red Cedars for thermal cover, and cuttings of cane willow/poplar trees to help fill in the area as well as screen the neighbors view.
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/2012-01-11200256-1.jpg

Pictures of the area
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/2012-01-11151344.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/2012-01-11151355.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/2012-01-11151404.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/2012-01-11151419.jpg

My task for today was to go in and mow the RCG down and thin out some of the more dense areas of ROD.
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/2012-01-11163217.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/2012-01-11163114.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/2012-01-11163012.jpg

A few of the ROD I just mowed the tops off so that the shrub is back down to browse height and can be easily reached by any deer.
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/2012-01-11162900.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/2012-01-11162931.jpg

I tried to mow areas perpendicular to the view of the house so that the neighbors do not have "lanes" to look down while sitting on their deck.
I will be planting the trees and willows in these same perpendicular mowed paths this next spring.
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/2012-01-11163039.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/2012-01-11162944.jpg
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/2012-01-11163012.jpg

The planting will look something like this.
http://i631.photobucket.com/albums/uu38/pipping22/2012-01-11200256.jpg

We will visit this area again in the spring... Now on to the "Winter List" :way:

[dbltree]

Nice! Looking forward to updates on this project! :way:

[dbltree]

CP17A-Living Snow Fences

On land with cropping history the living snow fence option can be a great way to establish a 120 ft NWSG/conifer/shrub buffer and...get paid for it!

Typically plans call for the NWSG from the fence/ditch inward and then 1-3 rows of trees, usually a combination of conifers and shrubs. NRCS will plan the layout but usually you can request some chances, for instance i wanted 2 rows of conifers and 1 row of shrubs to create a better screen. The rows may also become a travel corridor for whitetails and the whole thing is great for both small game and whitetails.

Couple links on the subject:

Planning Windbreaks (http://extension.missouri.edu/publications/DisplayPub.aspx?P=G5900)

Selecting Shrubs and Trees in Windbreaks (http://www.extension.umn.edu/agroforestry/components/selecting-trees-and-shrubs-in-windbreaks.pdf)

Living Snow Fence (http://www.mda.state.mn.us/protecting/conservation/practices/snowfence.aspx)

[SoDakarcher]

Ok... so for the not so obvious question of the day. I just recently purchase 5 foot solid tubes from Timber Mgmt. Great products and the service was excellent. The tubes have ventilation holes. I assume these are placed closest to the ground to allow air movement from top to bottom??? A few pictures posted here do not look that way. I am planting Chinkapin oak seedlings. Once the tubes are anchored to the bamboo poles are you annually removing the tubes to trim suckers and prune as needed or will that be necessary? Thanks for the help in advance

[DWilk]

Ok... so for the not so obvious question of the day. I just recently purchase 5 foot solid tubes from Timber Mgmt. Great products and the service was excellent. The tubes have ventilation holes. I assume these are placed closest to the ground to allow air movement from top to bottom??? A few pictures posted here do not look that way. I am planting Chinkapin oak seedlings. Once the tubes are anchored to the bamboo poles are you annually removing the tubes to trim suckers and prune as needed or will that be necessary? Thanks for the help in advance

Here are Timber Management's install tips found on their website:

Tree Shelter Installation Tips
Timber Management and Seed Company, LLC.
385 Northhaven Drive
Robins, IA 52302
(319) 573-0615
• Always use a ventilated tree shelter for heights 48'' and greater.
• Always center the seedling's trunk where it comes out of the ground in the middle of the tube
before driving the stake into the ground.
• Ventilation holes allow the interior of the shelter to stay cooler than some other shelters.
Consequently, the seedling will go dormant in the fall and not suffer dieback.
• The shelter protects the seedling from rabbits, deer, and herbicide splash.
• Each shelter needs a support stake.
• Zip ties are already attached to each shelter.
• Stakes should be placed on the North side of the shelter to prevent shading of sunlight.
However, always place the stake on the opposite side of the direction that the seedling is
leaning or it may grow into the zip tie on the inside of the tube.
• The vent holes start about 18'' above the ground.
• Bird netting is provided and is to be placed over the top of the tube. Birds sometimes think the
shelters are posts and enter through the top of the tube.
• Bird netting must be removed prior to the terminal bud growing out of the tube. Failure to
remove the netting will result in a poorly formed tree as the bud will grow at an angle if it makes
contact with the netting.
• Remove the netting prior to the main leader grows out of the tube. This will vary from species to
species as the growth rates are different.
• Recommend using a seedling between 17'' and 24 '' in height.
• Tubes can stay on for 5 to 7 years.
• Remove the tubes before the butt swell of the seedling starts to grow close to the side of the
tube. Moss will grow and create too wet of an environment which retains water, loosens the
tree bark, and once the tube is removed the tree will dieback due to a girdling effect.
• Deer populations and species selection will dictate the height of the shelter used.
• A great book to help with tree identification in Iowa is Forest and Shade Trees of Iowa by Peter
J. VanDerLinden and Donald R. Farrar
------------------------------------------------------------------

* A more specific response to your question on the vents is to keep them at the top of the tube. At the bottom creates windflow issues that basically suck the moisture away from the seedlings.

[letemgrow]

Ok... so for the not so obvious question of the day. I just recently purchase 5 foot solid tubes from Timber Mgmt. Great products and the service was excellent. The tubes have ventilation holes. I assume these are placed closest to the ground to allow air movement from top to bottom??? A few pictures posted here do not look that way. I am planting Chinkapin oak seedlings. Once the tubes are anchored to the bamboo poles are you annually removing the tubes to trim suckers and prune as needed or will that be necessary? Thanks for the help in advance


The ventilation holes should be on top, the bottom is solid to allow you to spray around the seedlings without getting any herbicide on it.

[SoDakarcher]

Thanks for the help! Are you intermittently removing the tubes to prune? The tubes I used in the past seemed to attract mice later in the Fall. Is that a problem? Thanks in advance.

[letemgrow]

Thanks for the help! Are you intermittently removing the tubes to prune? The tubes I used in the past seemed to attract mice later in the Fall. Is that a problem? Thanks in advance.


Keep it bare dirt in a 4' circle around the tubes and that should do away with the mice problems. It has for me anyways, I used to have problems with mice making a nice home inside the tube and girdling the seedlings. That has not been the case anymore.

[dbltree]

Conifer screens and trainers

The IDNR booth at the Iowa Deer Classic as always was an eye opener as it never ceases to amaze me the lengths that people will go to in attempts to put a whitetail rack on the wall. Poaching has always been a problem but now with new technology they have taken it to a new level and in doing so, steal from all of us.

In this case nite vision scopes and silencers enabled these people to kill deer without even buying a license, that is of course....until they got caught! This same thing goes on day and night wherever our property perimeter is exposed to roads and in some cases even the interior of our property. All of this makes the case for permanent conifer screens to keep our property and wildlife safe!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Red%20Cedars/Poacher1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Red%20Cedars/Poacher2.jpg

A friend passed on a link to a nursery offering conifers in "styroblocks" (container/plug) which ups survival and makes planting easier then trying to stuff a root system down a hole!

North Central Reforestation (http://www.ncrtrees.com/main/containerized/)

Red Cedars are as low as .26 cents a piece for 500 or more and they carry other great screening conifers such as Norway spruce as well.

Conifers make excellent trainers for hardwoods as well and encourage them to grow straight, betting the odds of veneer quality trees then if they are open grown. The following are a few examples of black walnuts grown in between red cedars

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Red%20Cedars/RCnBW.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Red%20Cedars/Rcnbw2.jpg

It doesn't take the trees long to out grow the conifer as they reach for the sky!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Red%20Cedars/Redcedartrainer.jpg

Conifers provide tremendous bedding along with their screening value and can be inter planted amongst the downed tops of hinged trees to enhance bedding areas. Red Cedars are my favorite because they are less vulnerable to damage by rubbing and browsing then most other conifers but regardless of which you choose...they can be an extremely valuable asset to your habitat program.... :way:

[spltbrow]

Do you recommend planting conifers in rows or in groups and clumps for deer bedding?

[dbltree]

Do you recommend planting conifers in rows or in groups and clumps for deer bedding?

Either will work but if hand planting you could scatter plant in odd areas rather then straight rows.

[ILBowHunter]

Hi guys,

We planted about 125 new pines last spring, but didn't do very well with the grass/weed control. The survival rate was pretty good, but the grass packed in around the trees over the winter.

Aside from pulling the laid over grass back, any suggestions for maintenance? Wait for the grass to green up and spray around the trees?

Thanks


1262


1263

[Scott]

Last year I just used a weed whipper around all mine to clear off the dead stuff than when it greened up I hit it with round up. I only had to spray it one more time late summer.

[rackhunter]

I have been told to spray Simizine and Prowl around newly planted trees and also sounds like this works for year old planted cedars.
Will this combination of spray take care of the grasses that are already up or just future weeds and grass? Should i spray something else with this combo or use Roundup during another spraying?

Thanks

[dbltree]

I have been told to spray Simizine and Prowl around newly planted trees and also sounds like this works for year old planted cedars.
Will this combination of spray take care of the grasses that are already up or just future weeds and grass? Should i spray something else with this combo or use Roundup during another spraying?

Thanks

I use roundup before trees are budded or candled to kill grasses, if they bud out then use clethodim and crop oil with the mix. Simazine and Prowl are the most effective combination I have used but on cedars and oaks you can add 1-2 ounces of Oust/Spyder to the mix to make it even more effective for a longer period of time but do NOT use Oust on shrubs and fruit trees ;)

[spltbrow]

Going to be spraying atrazine and dual ii magnum for a switch grass field this weekend and was wandering if I could use this mix in an area that I am going to be planting some oaks, conifers, and some shrubs or if I need to spray that area with something else.

Also can I mix gly with this combo?

[dbltree]

Going to be spraying atrazine and dual ii magnum for a switch grass field this weekend and was wandering if I could use this mix in an area that I am going to be planting some oaks, conifers, and some shrubs or if I need to spray that area with something else.

Also can I mix gly with this combo?

Yes and yes...avoid spraying over the top of budded or candled trees obviously but otherwise it's a very effective mix.

[dbltree]

Tree Screens

I still see too many fields wide open and exposed to roadways where deer are vulnerable to poachers or even neighbors who may be tempted to do something they otherwise would not.

Tree screens are imperative and conifers make the best screens anywhere across the country! Here is an example of a red cedar screen planted by a previous landowner, then a barbed wire fence erected afterwards by the new landowner...both important in keep deer safe and poachers out!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Red%20Cedars/Screen2.jpg

While the trees are growing I plant Egyptian Wheat screens adjacent to the fence and trees

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Red%20Cedars/Screen1.jpg

Eventually the field will be protected for many lifetimes when the cedars mature...in the meantime the fence makes it difficult for a poacher to just "run out in the field" with emphasis on "difficult"....certainly not impossible. The Egyptian Wheat lasts thru the fall and early winter to keep things hidden as the trees grow.

On top of that we are planting a mix of Cave In Rock and Kanlow switchgrass in the field area to further insulate and protect the whitetails living there.

In Iowa...it's tough to grow anything but red cedars because bucks will scrub any other conifers to death each fall but in northern states deer may find the cedars a delicacy during winter months and there Norway spruce may be a better option.

On a recent trip to speak at a QDMA seminar a few members took me on a tour of their farms and shared their spruce plantings

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Red%20Cedars/Spruce1.jpg

These spruce were planted 25 years ago by a member and his dad and now it is outstanding bedding cover and screening

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Red%20Cedars/Spruce2.jpg

Conifers are an essential element in you habitat tool chest and those with the foresight to plant them will be rewarded richly in due time. Make screening a priority and use any combination that will work for you in your area to get the job done, then add conifers and NWSG in appropriate areas to increase bedding cover areas.

North Central Reforestation (http://www.ncrtrees.com/) carries all types of conifers

Prairie seed Farms (http://prairieseedfarms.com/) carries all types of switchgrass seed

Iowa-Missouri Hybrids will ship small quantities of EW seed...call Aaron Palm at 641-919-1695 to order :way:

[dbltree]

April 13th, 2012

Tree Planting time! This time of year is a busy one around here as we hurry to get thousands of seedlings in the ground. It's always best of course if you can plant immediately upon receiving the the seedlings but that's not always possible. If trees need to be held for a few days, keep them in a cool dark place like a basement or better yet a cooler. NEVER leave seedlings in a bucket of water for days...they will drown! Roots should be kept moist however so use shredded newspaper or sphagnum moss wrapped around the roots and soaked down in buckets or tubs.

If seedlings need to be kept for a week or two, heel them in by digging a trench and spreading out the seedlings and covering the roots with soil and continue to keep them well watered until planting.

Our first set of seedlings were red cedars that needed to be planted in an area hinge cut the previous winter

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Plant2.jpg

A daunting challenge since the area has grown into some what of a jungle!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/h2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/h3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/h1.jpg

Tree planting bags can work to carry seedlings but I prefer a 5 gallon bucket with 3-4" of water in it...it's easier to get the seedlings out yet the bucket protects them from drying winds and the water keeps the roots moist while planting.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Plant1.jpg

My son prefers the dibble bar but I like using a shovel...partly because I like to scrape away leaves and debris first

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Plant3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Plant4.jpg

The cedar roots are long and a little difficult to fit into the narrow hole made by the dibble bar but easier to slide into the area opened with a shovel

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Plant5.jpg

We stumbled thru the brush and planted the seedlings amongst the downed tree tops

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Plant6.jpg

and any openings we could find

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Plant7.jpg

Next set will be with the tree planter...the same only different.... ;)

[medicsnoke]

Couple different questions for ya,

My neighbor offered me around 1,000 white oak trees. She says they are 3-4 year old and they are about 16-24 inches tall. They are about to be tilled under due to her renting the ground for farming. She said I can have them for .25 cents a piece. Whats the best way I can go about transferring these? Can I bare root these and plant them with the method just described?

Also, I planted 8 fruit trees last fall. What can i do to make these grow as fast as possible? I was thinking about putting some cow manure around the bases and feeding them a fertilizer spike.

Thanks in advance Dbltree

[Sligh1]

They are about to be tilled under due to her renting the ground for farming. She said I can have them for .25 cents a piece. Whats the best way I can go about transferring these?

Also, I planted 8 fruit trees last fall. What can i do to make these grow as fast as possible? I was thinking about putting some cow manure around the bases and feeding them a fertilizer spike.

Thanks in advance Dbltree

She wants $.25 for trees that are about to be tilled?! And you have to dig them up!?!?! That's kinda funny. That's a lot of work right there! If it were me, I'd only get a few because of the heavy work load. Let us know how this goes. :grin:

For fruit trees, get some triple 13, get around drip line, I like putting in shovel creases around drip line to get in the ground. 1 lbs per 1" trunk diameter is what I do.

[letemgrow]

Couple different questions for ya,

My neighbor offered me around 1,000 white oak trees. She says they are 3-4 year old and they are about 16-24 inches tall. They are about to be tilled under due to her renting the ground for farming. She said I can have them for .25 cents a piece. Whats the best way I can go about transferring these? Can I bare root these and plant them with the method just described?

Also, I planted 8 fruit trees last fall. What can i do to make these grow as fast as possible? I was thinking about putting some cow manure around the bases and feeding them a fertilizer spike.

Thanks in advance Dbltree

You would be better off buying seedlings from the IA State Nursery if she wants to charge you 25 cents each....Do you have to dig them up? If so, I would be buying some from a state nursery, IA, MO or if you home state has them, you are better off that way.

[dbltree]

Hmmm I agree with Skip and Phil...they may not transplant very well either but probably possible if you want to give it a shot. No manure necessary or advisable

[BBD Big Buck Down]

What do you guys think about using Austrees Hybrid willows as a screen? anyone heard much about them? They are suppose to grow very fast and pretty tall and be a good screen. Found a guy on craigslist selling seedlings for 1.50 a piece. Here is a pic of them.http://images.craigslist.org/5L45Ja5M33Ga3J53o2c44f58a07645d701b56.jpghttp://images.craigslist.org/5N25J55Mb3n33Gc3M7c44a262e32219601be1.jpg

[Sligh1]

I'd do a row of those and then a row of cedars. Obviously long term the cedars will be better & they don't lose their leaves BUT stuff like the willows are a great option to add with another row as they do grow fast. Personally, I like doing 3 rows of plantings if able but I'm sure 2 rows would be fine.

[dbltree]

Haven't tried these but the Thuja Green Giants seem like a better screening option

Thuja Nursery (http://www.greatgardenplants.com/index.php?pageId=917)

Another Thuja Nursey (http://www.thujagardens.com/GreenGiants.html)

Thuja Info Sheet (http://www.usna.usda.gov/Newintro/grgiant.pdf)

[bryan]

I bought some trees from Reeseville Ridge Nursery this week... 8 DCO 4 Chiquapin Chestnut and 4 American Chestnut. They were small plugs so i decided i would let them get a little bigger before i plant them outside...:)

http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=616&pictureid=10440

[loneranger]

Just be careful when you put them outside. The shock of full sun,and outdooor air might set them back. I had that happen to some Perssimons I grew in the house, and brought outside.

[dbltree]

April 30th, 2012

Another batch of seedlings arrived a few weeks back and of course arrived a few days before we could plant them. I picked up some peat moss...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/t1-1.jpg

Mixed it up with water

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/t2-1.jpg

and added it to the wet newspaper

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/t3-1.jpg

to be certain the roots stayed moist until we could plant

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/t4-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/t5-1.jpg

Compared to hand planting, using a tree planter is a breeze and my son and I put several thousand in the ground in no time

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/t6-1.jpg

In all cases we planted the cedars for tree screens

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/t12.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/t14.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/t13.jpg

The Kaylor planter does an excellent job

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/t8.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/t7.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/t9.jpg

We continue to keep the roots moist during planting

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/t11.jpg

and we always go back and make sure all tree toots are covered and firmly tamped down

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/t10.jpg

In most cases we sprayed glyphosate and Oust XP before planting to kill the sod and then follow up after planting with Simazine and Prowl for further residual control.

Once done with tree plantings we start applying herbicide to established tree plantings...and I use a variety of herbicide options

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/s2.jpg

On fruit trees and shrubs I use the following in a 3 gal BP sprayer....

1 qt Simazine
1 qt Prowl
1 qt crop oil
8 ounces clethodim

That mix will burn down most emerged broadleaf weeds, kill annual and perennial grasses and provide season long residual control. I direct spray around trees but...this mix will not kill trees if some gets on the leaves at worst it may cause some burning or spotting on leaves that the mix may get on.

On oaks and conifers I use the same mix but add Oust/Spyder...this mix is deadly and can cause injury if applied over the top of budded or candled trees so I direct spray around base of seedlings if they have broke dormancy as they did very early this year.

1 qt Simazine
1 qt Prowl
1 qt crop oil
8 ounces clethodim
1 ounce Oust XP

Reading back thru this thread you can see that last year I was not able to apply herbicide until June and broadleaf weeds were 2-3' tall so I used 2 qt's each of Simazine and prowl and 1 qt crop oil which not only burned down the existing broadleaves but provided a full year of control.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/s5.jpg

You cans see the size of the dead weeds still laying on the ground as I sprayed this year

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/s6.jpg

note the unsprayed area to the right of the cedars

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/s3.jpg

and the size of the weed stalks that were killed last summer yet without harming the fully leafed out or candled trees

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/s4.jpg

the question was asked

How long before clethodim is rainfast?

and this is the labeled response

DO NOT APPLY CLETHODIM if rainfall is expected within one hour, since control may be reduced.

Will clethodim hurt candled or leafed out trees?

No...there are no restrictions on the use of clethodim on conifers but crop oil may cause some burning to leafed out trees. Clethodim itself will not harm broadleaf plants/trees or conifers but any time crop oil is used (and CO is necessary to make the clethodim effective) it can cause some burning.

Personally I have sprayed clethodim and crop oil on even the most tender, fragile flowers with no adverse affects so the likelihood of serious injury to trees is extremely unlikely.... ;)

[spltbrow]

Well you just answered a few questions that I had. Thanks.

[dbltree]

Herbicides for Conifers

Depending on the time of year we have a few more herbicide options for conifers then on deciduous tree species and the following is a great link for more info on this subject.

Effective Herbicide Use in Christmas Tree Plantations (http://forestry.msu.edu/extension/ExtDocs/plntatn.htm)

The most difficult situation is over the top application when trees are actively growing but here are some options to consider for conifers....

ESTABLISHED PLANTATIONS

Over-the-top application when trees are growing:

Fluazifop-butyl (Fusilade 2000). Rate: 2 to 3 pint/acre. Controls annual and perennial grasses but not broadleaf weeds or sedges. Effective in late spring and early summer when grasses are actively growing but before they exceed recommended growth stages. Effectively controls quackgrass when applied before growth exceeds 10 inches. For maximum effectiveness, apply with a non-ionic surfactant in two applications at half the recommended rate. A directed spray is recommended for Fraser fir.

Hexazinone (Velpar L, Pronone 10G). Rate: 0.5 to 1 gallon/acre, 5 to 15 pound/acre. Use only on established (at least 1 year) Scotch pine plantations. Apply when herbaceous vegetation is less than 2 inches high. For best results, apply when soil moisture is ample and both temperature and relative humidity are high.

Sethoxydim (Vantage). Rate: 1.5 to 3.25 pints/acre.Effectively controls quackgrass and late-season annualgrasses. Apply anytime herbaceous vegetation is present, regardless of Christmas tree dormancy. The spray mixture requires a non-phytotoxic oil concentrate at a rate of 2 pints/acre.

Clopyralid (trade name: Stinger). Rate: 0.25 to 0.67 pint/acre. Applied in early summer it controls a number of herbaceous broadleaf weeds such as alfalfa, sweet and red clover, horseweed, sowthistle, Canada thistle and vetch. Applications must be made before susceptible plants exceed recommended growth stages.

It is always safest to apply while trees are dormant and the fall before new seedlings are planted often the weather and "life" doesn't cooperate so it's nice to have options.

Rarely does any given herbicide label cover every imaginable tree species so apply herbicide over the top of a few trees and check the response before spraying your whole planting and finding out too late that you shouldn't have.... ;)

[dbltree]

Tree Tubes

I am really looking forward to trying tubes that...

A) Don't come apart...period
B) Animals can't chew on or climb up
C) Don't kink over because of weak side walls
E) Don't require assembly

So far I have used both the blue Protex tubes sold by Forestry Suppliers and the Plantra tubes offered thru NWTF and both fail miserably! Now that is not so day they can never work because they can but they have too many weak points to suit me and I have switched to Miracle vented tubes by Tree Pro and sold for $2.50 ea. (100+) by Timber Management LLC (http://www.timbermanagementandseed.com/timbermanagement/Store.aspx)

Because the Protex has to be assembled it means there are "flaps" and "edges" that seem to attract critters such as coons who love to chew on them.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t1.jpg

The teeth marks are unmistakable

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t2.jpg

Which means I find them like this

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t3.jpg

Torn apart and trees either exposed or crushed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t4.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t5.jpg

Note the chewed off oak seedling re-sprouting (thankfully) just outside the edge of the tube

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t6.jpg

95% of the problems with critters chewing or climbing on tubes takes place when trees are planted in and around heavy cover and only rarely is it a problem in open field areas. There however wind buffets the tubes and tends to open up the Protex and flatten the Plantra tubes. Some of the problems can be overcome by using ties or wire thru the openings on the Protex and using two posts on the Plantra tubes and wiring thru holes in posts to prevent them from being dragged down. So far 100% of Plantra tubes used in multiple locations on several farms have been dragged down...multiple times I might add!

The Protex tubes fare better in open field areas if they are put together properly and a tie or wire used around the entire tube and stake...if they stay together they do their job and trees do very well in them.

You can see the growth of these Dwarf Chinkapin oaks in these tubes...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t1-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t2-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t5-1.jpg

On a slightly different note...this is a 2 yr old fall planted DCO seedling (planted in fall 2009 as an acorn)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t6-1.jpg

Compared to Rootmaker started seedlings planted in summer 2010

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t8.jpg

Other problems that need to be addressed with tree tubes and seedlings in general is depredation by rodents of which the worst can be mice, voles, ground squirrels and rabbits. Keeping the area completely void of weeds is one way to solve that problem. No mouse that wants to live long is going to caught in the open, so a 100% weed/grass free area surrounding the tube will eliminate most of those problems. I would add here that the Plantra tubes are soft and easily chewed thru while heavier tubes such as the Protex and Miracle tubes mice are forced to dig under.

3 years ago I ordered a single weed mat just for the sake of experimentation and used herbicide around it to boot. While on this single tree I have not had a problem...you can see that they are an invitation for burrowing rodents to crawl underneath and kill a young tree...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t3-1.jpg

On the other oak trees I used a combo of Oust XP, Prowl and Simazine and keep the area bare and exposed...an inhospitable environment for mice!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t4-1.jpg

the area around each tube is weed free and trees are growing rapidly in the tubes!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t7.jpg

Around my fruit trees last year I sprayed Simazine, Prowl and crop oil on growing grasses and weeds and as noted previously if smoked everything without harming the trees. What is interesting however is the ability for this herbicide cocktail to kill via the roots as well as thru the leaf. Note here where heavy rains last spring caused the herbicide to "run" and it killed everything downhill of where I actually sprayed.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Herbicidemovement.jpg

Both herbicides used are residual per-emergence herbicides that are not typically expected to kill weeds post emergence but obviously applied heavy enough the combination has powerful post-emergence capabilities.

Frost and Freeze

We had a freeze back in April when temps dropped to 23 degrees...usually not a problem except with 80 degree temps in March everything was leafed out! Young oaks and chestnuts appeared at first to have been killed with all leaves appearing stone cold dead...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/fd1.jpg

but weeks late all have new leaves

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/fd3.jpg

and buds

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/fd2.jpg

In a recent Oikos Tree Crops news letter they had this to say...

FROST DAMAGE
After this last cold snap it is important to note that frost damaged seedlings will grow again and unlike annuals are often invigorated by the process. The storage of energy in the roots will produce a re-leafing often more vigorous than the first time around. Unless very severe low temperatures are experienced, only the new leaves are burned. The complete vascular system of the plant is not destroyed so the stems will still be green. (You can do a simple scratch test to check this.) Some plants, like oaks will further increase root mass when soil temperatures drop.

A friend of mine back east recently was mortified to find even his 10 year old chestnut trees all appearing dead after a recent hard freeze to 25 degrees but I believe they will recover in the next few weeks and I'm looking forward to hearing back from him.

I took advantage of a late spring sale at Oikos Tree Crops (http://oikostreecrops.com/store/prodtype.asp?PT_ID=121&strPageHistory=cat) to buy some potted Ashworth Bur Oak seedlings for a buck a piece along with some Schuttes Oak and ‘Sweet it Is’ bur oaks so when they arrive I'll be tubing them with the Miracle tubes and start testing them with what I hope are....better results! :way:

[dbltree]

May 16th, 2012

I have been planting trees from Oikos Tree Crops for 20 years or so and have always had outstanding success with their container grown oak and chestnut seedlings along with corns and chestnuts for seed. Most of their oaks are not just ordinary trees but selected from trees with outstanding traits including hybrids that grow quickly and produce acorns at an early age. Many of mine produced as early as 8 years with no tubes, no herbicide or fencing, given the very best care however some trees can produce in as little as 3-5 years. Not a place to buy 5000 seedlings to re-forest an area but rather a source for small quantities of hybrid or special trees and plants. I get their email news letter and take advantage of last minute sales and recently purchased 25 Ashworth burr oaks, 5 Schuttes Oak and 5 ‘Sweet it Is’ burr oaks (check the "sale items")

Oikos Tree Crops (http://oikostreecrops.com/store/home.asp?cookiecheck=yes&)

I like the container grown trees because they can be kept for a month or so if kept watered and out of hot drying sun, I just set them in a 5 gallon bucket and water daily until planted.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t3-2.jpg

I gathered up the bucket, shovel, 4 # hammer, Miracle tubes and stakes and got them in the ground

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t2-2.jpg

Mike Hamilton at Timber Management has the best price I have found on Miracle tubes and stakes and Mike also sells tree seeds of all kinds.

Timber Management (http://www.timbermanagementandseed.com/)

The tubes come in 50 tube bags, 5 tubes inside each other

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t1-2.jpg

Of all the tubes I have tried these are absolutely the easiest to install with zip ties already in the tubes, simply slip the stake thru

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t12.jpg

Drive the stake in and pull tight!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t13.jpg

If using tubes you can leave the paper pot on the seedling but otherwise I have found it best to remove it simply because animals are intrigued by it and will pull the entire seedling out of the ground to investigate

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t15.jpg

Because I was using tubes I left the pot intact

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t16.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t17.jpg

I prefer to pre-treat the areas with Oust and glyphosate but not knowing I would be purchasing these seedlings I planted into sod but first scrape the sod and debris away

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t10.jpg

Plant the seedlings, which in this case were pretty good size

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t7-1.jpg

and then place tube and stake over seedlings...the loosened soil allows me to press the tube firmly into the soil

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t8-1.jpg

and if any areas are uneven I can close the gap at the bottom of the tube to seal it

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t11.jpg

These tubes do not require assembly and are very smooth and rigid making it impossible for animals to climb or chew on them or at least unlikely.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t9.jpg

Once trees were planted and tubes installed I went back and sprayed a combination of clethodim, simazine, prowl and crop oil to both burn down existing vegetation and control weeds and grasses for the season. I try to kill a band or circle 2-3' in diameter.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t6-2.jpg

I planted all of them in a cedar thicket taking advantage of any opening, some of which we'll enlarge this winter.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/t14.jpg

The combination of red cedars and sweet low tannin acorns from these oaks will some day make an already great haven...heaven for whitetails. The opportunity to purchase a few seedlings and tubes makes this affordable for almost any budget and can help the landowner transform an area with few or no oaks into a whitetail mecca.... :way: