Brassicas [Archive] - Page 3 - Iowawhitetail forums

Darron

02-13-2011, 04:03 PM

Paul, two questions. First, do you plant this mix Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas 20-80#'s per acre (4010 or 6040 field peas will work fine for 1/2 the price)
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
at the same time. I'm in Ohio and due to football/teaching commitments I was thinking of trying to plant the first or second week of August. Second, I am originally from the thumb (Sebewaing). What part of the thumb do you hail from? Thanks, Bill

I'm in the same boat as you. I also teach/coach and I am very busy in August with football practice. I think this year I planted LC's cereal grain mix on 8/20 and the plot turned out awesome. I have planted this mix as early as mid-August with no negative effects. Keep in mind my plots are fairly small (less than an acre) and are around cover. The deer never let the rye get more than 3" tall except directy in front of my blind and now it is eaten to the ground. I definetly wouldn't plant it before August or even the first week of August, but in my case anytime from 8/15-9/1 I have had great luck in SE Ohio. It's hard for me to get anything done once school starts so I am forced to plant maybe a little earlier than what I should, but the deer pop around me keeps the plot nice and short for me. I have also found the turkeys love the rye mix as well.

Last year I didn't add any peas or radishes (just rye, oats and clover). This year I plan to add them both.

bern381

02-14-2011, 10:43 AM

Darron

02-14-2011, 05:38 PM

If you are going to plant rye, oats, and clover do you plant peas and radishes first and add the cereal grains later. Should I plant radishes and peas in mid july and plant cereal grains before two-adays?

Two-a-days........the reason I got out of high school coaching. I enjoy middle school much better, you actually make money :)

Our high school two-a-days are usually the first two weeks in August. I don't know how yours work. I would just find a time your off and plant on a Sunday (unless you don't have 2 a days on Saturdays). That's what I did. It doesn't give you much of a window. I plan when I get a free moment from coaching and the wife.

I like to plant my brassicas around Mid-July here in Ohio. Some people plant them as late as the first week in August. I plan my brassicas for one thing......tonnage. I would as much growth as I can and not have them seed out and die. Usually planting mid-July will give you a solid 75-90 days before first frost.

dbltree

02-14-2011, 08:03 PM

February 14th, 2011

Been a tough winter but this only amplifies the need for year around food sources that not only attract deer but hold them on our property while keeping them well fed and not stressed. Healthy does have big healthy fawns and healthy strong bucks will likely grow like kind antlers so all the more reason to make sure they have a food source that will last as long as possible.

Turnips...the things they wouldn't touch last fall are now their saving grace!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_0051.jpg

I plant a mix of forage radish, forage rape and turnips in mid July and....they eat them in that order leaving the turnips unscathed to be eaten when they need them most.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_0052.jpg

These turnips have helped keep deer focused on the very same plot they have fed in all year and for years before that

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_0054.jpg

Deer are so much easier to kill if they are adapted and predictable and we can't do that if we only "feed" them for 2 months out of the year

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_0055.jpg

Mine aren't the only turnips being hit this time of year...these are from a friends plots

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica1-4.jpg

and where there is a winter food source...you'll find "presents"

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica2-3.jpg

They don't look like much but to a cold hungry whitetail it's a prize to be savored!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica3-2.jpg

Brassica plots are trampled

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica4-2.jpg

Because the corn and beans are long gone!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica5-2.jpg

Some well fertilized brassicas that include turnips can be an extremely useful tool in keeping whitetails on your farm and an arm load of sheds will be only one of the rewards you will reap from planting them..... ;)

dbltree

02-24-2011, 06:18 AM

February 24th, 2011

A good crop of turnips is a sure bet to hold deer on your property all winter!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/R1.jpg

They are one of the few crops one can usually count on to still be attracting deer in late winter

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/R3.jpg

Yours and the neighbors too!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/R2.jpg

Some of the neighbors bucks may decide year around food and cover is more to their liking

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/R4.jpg

They are eating the GHF radish roots

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_0031.jpg

and the turnips

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_0032.jpg

pretty much equally

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_0033.jpg

No matter who's farm or food plot...the brassicas are a busy place this time of year!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer2.jpg

Mike found these sheds in his sugar beets and soybeans but none in his corn much to his surprise but still they are there because he has enough feed to last all winter

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2010seasonsheds006.jpg

Plan for year around food sources and all of them in one place or at least all of them in each field to adapt deer to traveling the same routes every day, year in, year out.... :way:

SDHunt24/7

03-08-2011, 08:56 PM

dbltree

03-09-2011, 06:36 PM

Does welter's or anyone else have a mix that is similar to biologic maximum? I have used this stuff the last two years and the deer have went nuts over it. It just keeps climbing in price and I have seen where you guys talk about steering away from the "deer on the bag" brands to save some $. I would also be interested in something similar to their outfitters blend. Dbltree do you have the make up list for these products? I couldn't find it anywhere and have thrown the old open bags away.

I plant the following...

3#'s Purple Top Turnips
2#'s Dwarf Essex Rape
5#'s GroundHog Forage Radish

till in 200#'s urea and 400#'s 6-24-24 before planting

Welter seed has those and many more varieties...all of which I have tried and all work well I might add!

Welter Seed - Brassica seed (http://www.welterseed.com/productItems.aspx?id=3&org=0)

The combination above will attract and feed deer from August through March if you plant mid July (give or take) and feed it well!

You can experiment with other varieties such as Pasja or Appin or Barkant but the old standbys listed above have never failed me...:way:

dbltree

03-10-2011, 04:51 PM

Many landowners only "see" the deer on their property during hunting season and the rest of the year they are out of sight and out of mind. They may use trail cams improperly and/or on a limited basis so they don't really have a feel for what is actually living on their property and without that information they cannot then fathom the reason for year around cover and food....just plant some stuff and they'll show up this fall...right??

There is of course some truth to that but if we provide everything that whitetails need to not only survive, but thrive on our property, they will become as predictable as death and taxes. Over time they will become so adapted to traveling the same runways to the same field to feed they become amazingly easy to kill.

If the field is barren for half the year...where do you suppose they will go? What patterns are they forced to change and they become anything but predictable.

Remember this strip of brassicas from the past summer? Lush and green...food aplenty!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_0001-4.jpg

ahhh...but now it is far from that and bare as a table top!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Strip%20Plots/Brassicas.jpg

When an entire field is planted to brassicas, beans or corn for instance...eventually they clean it up leaving nothing in that field and forcing deer to change patterns and adapt to another field or food source.

In my case though the entire plot is NOT bare and despite being early March there is enough to keep them returning to feed. Clover on the left, rye on the right keep them coming back!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Strip%20Plots/Strip1.jpg

I also overseeded winter rye into the forage radish as it was being decimated early on so rather then have a bare spot...I have a great food source and soil builder to boot!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Strip%20Plots/Brassicasnrye.jpg

At a glance the ground appears brown and barren but a closer look reveals white clover...tender morsels that they cannot resist and at a time of year when they are stressed to the max.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Strip%20Plots/Clover.jpg

On the other side it appears much the same...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Strip%20Plots/Ryewclover.jpg

but winter rye and red clover

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Strip%20Plots/Rye.jpg

are both green

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Strip%20Plots/Rye1.jpg

and waiting to provide lush early spring feed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Strip%20Plots/Ryendeadoats.jpg

I have not hundreds but thousands of trail cam pics of the deer feeding in these various strip plots on any given day through out the year.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Strip%20Plots/Strip2.jpg

Even with acres of ag crops surrounding them...these plots get hit daily

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Strip%20Plots/Strip3.jpg

and the deer on my place are adapted and predictable

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Strip%20Plots/DSC04678.jpg

Family groups follow the same runways day after day, year after year...using the same hinged funnels the rutting bucks now exactly where both the feed and the girls are...and it never ever changes.

Go ahead...stick the old ways and leave your fields bare...your neighbors will love you for it.... ;)

dbltree

03-22-2011, 08:08 PM

March 22nd, 2011

The brassica patches are a pretty inhospitable looking place right now...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2371.jpg

the remains are starting to rot and decay and the allelopathic chemicals can some times make frost seeding clover a losing proposition. I prefer to either till the mess under and plant oats and annual clovers like berseem or crimson or no-till soybeans into the dead brassicas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2372.jpg

In either event, leaving it bare is the worst thing you can do for your soil and your deer get it planted to something asap this spring.

What about the GroundHog forage radish patch? Remember those huge radish roots? The ones that scavenged nitrogen and pulled potassium from the sub soil? They've done their duty and now are also a decaying mess....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2387.jpg

Unlike the other brassicas however they have done something else...the deep roots started to decompose earlier and allowed water to flow in and the freezing/thawing effect also had a profound effect on the soil!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2388.jpg

I took the end of a small steel electric fence post and easily stirred the now fluffy and loose soil

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2391.jpg

While the areas not planted were hard as a rock and compacted still! The GHFR roots act like natures subsoiler and loosened the heavy clay soils....and attracted deer like a magnet to boot!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2392.jpg

I'm not sure which plant this is...one of the brassica seeds I planted in the garden last fall

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2389.jpg

and still alive and well this spring?!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2390.jpg

These plants can be a problem however when they go to seed and all the more reason to either till the plot under or plant RR beans or corn and get "problems" killed early on..... ;)

IQDM

03-23-2011, 09:48 PM

if we provide everything that whitetails need to not only survive, but thrive on our property, they will become as predictable as death and taxes.;)
HA HA! well said! Deer are creatures of habit, and if you can do as dbltree does and create a situation where your deer adapt to a yearlong routine, death will be a very predictable outcome to the deer you are hunting! ;) preferably a 160 class :way:

dbltree

04-15-2011, 08:57 PM

April 15th, 2011

Here is a great example why we need to turn under spent brassica plots and get them in a cover crop of oats and an annual clover like berseem or crimson. It's only April 15th and these surviving brassicas planted as a test in my garden are already going to seed!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2539.jpg

These things can become almost invasive not unlike wild mustard if allowed to go to seed!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2540.jpg

Get them sprayed or tilled under or you may regret it later.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2541.jpg

Deer will rarely touch them this time of year so there is nothing to be gained by leaving them standing and rotting dead brassicas are a haven for disease and pests. Till them under or plant RR soybeans and get them sprayed... :way:

Boz

04-16-2011, 07:43 PM

dbltree

04-17-2011, 01:44 PM

Has anyone ever planted carrots as part of their brassica mix? Not that I'd use "buck on the bag" mixes, but came across this product: Big-N-Beasty Brassicas with carrots. This mix contains; Sugar Beets, Purple Top Forage Turnip, Carrots, Winfred Forage Rape, Dwarf Essex Rape, and Hunter Forage Rape/Turnip Hybrid.

They'll certainly eat everything in that mix although the beets need to be planted in the spring and the rape and turnips in mid summer....;)

davidoswalt054

04-27-2011, 04:41 AM

My deer food plot always builds up alot of leaves that are there in the spring. I removed them to plant brassicas last year, but this year I am trying sugar beets in this field. Do I need to remove the leaves since i will be planting at about 1/2-3/4 of an inch?? If the plant can emerge thru the leaves will the leaves then inhibit the weeds?? I haven't seen the field yet---will on Friday---so I may even have some brassicas growing already. I plant in Norther Michigan about the same latitude as Green Bay Wis, or Minneapolis Min. Also, if I spray roundup can I plant at the same time or just before i spray?? I hit the field with roundup twice last year with roundup before I planted the turnips. Could not find any roundup-ready seed to buy around here so I have some regular comming from Walther Seed.

Thanks,
DNO

dbltree

05-01-2011, 06:47 PM

May 1st, 2011

On another forum a poster lamented the fact that while he wanted to plant corn every year, the cost of nitrogen made doing so, expensive. He then planted the field to alfalfa to fix some nitrogen naturally and the deer went to a neighboring cornfield...what to do???

I wonder...is there some unwritten law that says we MUST plant the whole field to ONE crop?? Of course not, it's just a brain block thing we are all guilty of from time to time. So why not split the field and plant 1/2 to corn and 1/2 to alfalfa or clover? Better yet why not split it 3 ways and have a corn, soybean, clover rotation? If that would work then why not a clover, brassica, cereal grain rotation...all in the same field! Wellll...that might work in a big field but my plots are small you say...

You mean like this?

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2658.jpg

I've shared countless pictures of deer feeding in this little strip plot that consists of a strip of white clover, a strip of brassicas and a strip of winter rye/oats/peas/red clover...so even a small plot can be very very productive yet I never have to plant the same crop in the same spot two years in a row. I also am able to till under a legume before each crop and still have ALL the crops in one spot!!

The brassicas of course are dead and that strip is no longer productive and is feeding neither deer nor the soil, yet the plot itself is still attracting and feeding deer...year around! It's crazy to leave soil bare and unproductive however so spring is the perfect time to get those dead brassicas tilled under and a temporary cover crop planted in it's place.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2667.jpg

I let it dry a day but in this view you can clearly see the white clover on the left, the tilled under brassicas and the winter rye and red clover on the right.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2660.jpg

I tilled it again the following afternoon and then broadcast oats and chickling vetch and then lightly tilled that in about an inch deep while pulling the cultipacker behind. The oats were just common feed grade oats and the chickling vetch from Welter Seed.

Guess I coulda washed the graphite off my hands first... :eek: :D

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2734.jpg

Remember this is just for a cover crop to feed the deer along with adding biomass and nitrogen to the soil when I till it under in late August to plant the cereal rye combo. so I just broadcast seed from experience. You can however look up rates on Welter seeds web site Welter seed (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductTypes.aspx)

Roughly 60#'s of oats and 20#'s of vetch in this case

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2735.jpg

Because I had pulled the packer behind to firm the soil behind the tiller it was then ready for me to broadcast berseem clover. Berseem and crimson are both great annual clovers to add 100-200#'s of N when killed for the next crop. I broadcast about 15#'s per acre when I sow Berseem.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2736.jpg

I followed with the packer only to just lightly press the tiny clover seeds into the top 1/8' of soil

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2737.jpg

Now...for a time at least the entire strip will be growing legumes of some variety or specie so if deer prefer one more then another it matters not since they are still adapted to coming there to that same spot where there is always, always always...food.

This is a larger field of strip plots that includes the same crops shown in the small strip above

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2695.jpg

Here however were going to no-till plant RR soybeans into the spent brassicas

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2696.jpg

That right now are nothing more then a waste land

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2697.jpg

Part of them will be fenced and the rest may very well be eaten to the ground in which case it will go back to rye/peas/red clover this fall.

The rotation possibles are endless so start thinking about what combination's of crops planted separately in each field can do a better job of keeping deer coming to your plots year around AND lower your fertilizer bill at the same time! Did I mention that rye and radishes pull up potassium and scavenge nitrogen also... ;)

davidoswalt054

05-03-2011, 05:29 AM

I really like that idea because it will provide something year round plus add some of the soil nutrients. I did plant the field which is only about 1/6 of an acre so far, in sugar beets but the area was very wet, some water holes yet and a few things begging to grow in it that i hit with roundup. Looks like the leaves had blown off most of it but the planting was very hard since i have never tilled the soil and only planted brassicas in it. But the size of the plot is growing-----each time I get up there I work on new areas. I plan on planting the brassicas on the new area I am clearing---about 1/10th of an acre. My current cleared strip is about 180ft x 40 ft wide. A farmer planted a field down the road about three miles from us that kept the deer feeding there all winter. It looked like a bladed grass of some type but the deer were digging thru 30 inches of snow to eat it. He put it in in late August last year---I need to find out what that was.
Thanks for all the ideas, keepem comming.

DNO---I too plan on getting there some day so don't worry about me when i'm gone.

dbltree

05-25-2011, 09:55 AM

May 25th, 2011

I sowed common "feed oats", berseem and chickling vetch into the spent brassica strips and they are coming up nicely now. The white clover strip is on the left and the rye/clover on the right...always something to eat in the strip plots!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_0056.jpg

Oats provide some lush attractive late spring feed and act as a great cover crop to both protect soil and the legumes seeded with them.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_0059.jpg

You have to look twice to notice the chickling vetch among the oats...notice the lack of weeds, thanks to a rotation of winter rye one year and brassicas the next, both having allelopathic chemicals that inhibit small weed seeds from germinating.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_0057.jpg

The little berseem clover seedlings are coming up but I have a feeling that once again the constant, heavy rainfall and saturated soils may be drowning some of the clover seedlings.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_0058.jpg

Rather then leave dead rotting brassica leaves and roots that are worthless to deer and promote disease ad pests, turning it under and growing a cover crop for the summer is a "win - win" for your deer, the soil and the crop to follow.

We got 3" last night on ground still soaked from an 1 1/2 a few days ago...and so it goes, the wet weather pattern continues for a 4th year in a row here in Iowa.... ;)

DNO---I too plan on getting there some day so don't worry about me when i'm gone.

I'll see you there...;)

davidoswalt054

05-28-2011, 06:59 PM

The strip idea is great!! Can't wait to get it going. Thanks for the ideas. I'm also passing it on to a friend that hunts in Atlanta, Michigan who is retired and has the time to put into this------something I don't know if I will ever get to--retiring.........but we sill sure have fun trying to get there.

DNO

davidoswalt054

05-28-2011, 07:00 PM

Also-----------we've had so much water here I don't know when I get back up north to look at my plot in two weeks if even the soil will have washed away.
DNO

dbltree

05-30-2011, 04:19 PM

Late last summer I overseeded winter rye and Groundhog forage radish into my standing milo/soybean plot. The field was so think and shaded I didn't expect much although at least some of it did germinate. This spring I disced it all under for corn and recently I was surprised to see the areas where I had overseed radish last fall...were covered with it!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2876.jpg

Even though some of the seed no doubt did not germinate and thus laid on the soil, you would think that running a heavy disc over it multiple times would have buried it beyond a point at which it could have germinated??

At any rate both rye and radish popped up in those areas

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2875.jpg

Even more surprising is that I sprayed the full rate of Dual II Magnum on this field which obviously had no effect on the radish seeds.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CIMG2874.jpg

No radish plants have come up in any plots where I actually "planted" them so clearly this seed remained viable and when turned under this spring finally was able to germinate. This is a RR corn plot so eventually they will get nuked and even in conventional corn the plants would not cause any harm.

Always something new and interesting to learn.... ;)

bearcatbaseball10

05-31-2011, 04:47 PM

Dbltree-

I've pretty much read this entire thread through my summer class so far (great college education right?) haha. Anyway, with brassica planting coming up soon, I think that we have decided to do about 3-5 acres of brassicas.

The deer on our farm have had brassicas before (the shot plot mixture, 5 years ago) but I'm looking to do test plots side by side. I picked up bags of shot plot last year after season from walmart for half price, but I don't necessairly trust their germination so I want something else there with it. With my Welters order, I'm looking at doing something like this:

2 lbs of Dwarf Essex
1.5 Lbs of PT Turnips
1.5 lbs of GHR

I'm going to try to feed with 100 lbs of 12-12-12 right away, but on a college budget its not going to be something that I can drop a lot of money into. I'm looking to draw from Archery season, to late rifle season.

I WILL HAVE OTHER FOOD though. Although we havent got them in yet (hopefully this week) we will have about 4 acres of RR beans in this area, then I was going to come along the sides and plow and disc 15-30 ft wide strips along our plots (depending on our location) and putting the brassicas in there. The closest food to these areas is the neighbors small plots and 100 acres of corn about a mile down the road, so I'm hoping these plots will be able to sustain our population.

With that plan, does it sound fairly solid, or should I be doing something else that maybe you caught through my talk through?

Daver

05-31-2011, 08:25 PM

Dbltree-

Anyway, with brassica planting coming up soon, I think that we have decided to do about 3-5 acres of brassicas.

Sorry to butt in...but I don't think you want to plant brassicas this early yet(May/June), more like early to mid August.

bearcatbaseball10

05-31-2011, 09:14 PM

Sorry to butt in...but I don't think you want to plant brassicas this early yet(May/June), more like early to mid August.

No I understand this, more like the 3rd-4th week of July (around July 25th)...but with being on a college budget, its time for me to set money aside for these plots now to allow for the funding. With being on a fairly strict budget, its always nice to plan ahead. Being grown up SUCKS ;)

Daver

05-31-2011, 09:25 PM

No I understand this, more like the 3rd-4th week of July (around July 25th)...but with being on a college budget, its time for me to set money aside for these plots now to allow for the funding. With being on a fairly strict budget, its always nice to plan ahead. Being grown up SUCKS ;)

OK, it sounds like you are on it, good luck with the plots!

dbltree

06-01-2011, 05:33 AM

Eventually I would get some small areas of white clover established and I emphasize "small" but they are very important in helping you adapt deer to those feeding areas year around rather then just in November.

Change your thought train from hunting season to all year long, eventually you will train those deer to come to that area and ignore any surrounding food sources.

That being said the winter rye combination is also helpful to have adjacent to the brassicas and requires little fertilizer.

You need a lot more then triple 12 to successfully grow brassicas unless the ground is exceptionally fertile. 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea is usually required which runs around $65 an acre. ;)

bearcatbaseball10

06-01-2011, 08:14 AM

That being said the winter rye combination is also helpful to have adjacent to the brassicas and requires little fertilizer.

You need a lot more then triple 12 to successfully grow brassicas unless the ground is exceptionally fertile. 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea is usually required which runs around $65 an acre. ;)

Do you have a mixture that you have found for the winter rye yet? I thought about rye too, but with the rye I've found your looking at $120-$150 for 50 lb bag. Which is good per pound, butttt I dont need all that, and secondly, rye has never grown well in our clay so I was hoping the GHR would help break up the clay for us to help out. Same problem with the clover.

As for the 46-0-0. I could afford that, but we farm with a 52' ford 8n with a LIGHT disk. Usually we plow then come through with the disk to help smooth it out, would you spread the 46-0-0 after plowing, and then come through with the disk to make sure its used? I just wondered if that would put it too deep to cause leaching....

bearcatbaseball10

06-01-2011, 08:18 AM

Scratch that, I found the cheaper on Welters, I didn't see the Annual Rye grass at the top :thrwrck:

All other questions still apply :D

dbltree

06-01-2011, 04:27 PM

Scratch that, I found the cheaper on Welters, I didn't see the Annual Rye grass at the top :thrwrck:

All other questions still apply :D

You don't want that either...look under "Other Grains"...it's Winter Rye your looking for

davidoswalt054

06-02-2011, 06:20 AM

This looks great, hope mine will get in the ground and going soon. Should be able to see the plot of sugar beets I planted in about one week &
check on the grass/weed competition and see how the seed germinated-----------so much water I wonder if some got washed away. Should be able to hit my newly cleared area a second time this season with roundup, then I will start planting in about 3 weeks in strips like you are doing. ..........

Wonder if there's a hunting planet up there when we get there

DNO

dbltree

06-11-2011, 07:38 AM

June 11th, 2011

It's pretty awesome when you can build soils and feed deer at the same time! Planting your spent brassica plots to a cover crop does that every thing and helps adapt deer to always always feeding in that plot. Earlier I tilled under the spend brassica strips that lay between the rye/clover and the perennial white clover strips and plant them to oats, chickling vetch and berseem clover.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5101.jpg

They have been grazing the tender oats heavily!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5102.jpg

Just common oats, not even seed oats but just oats bagged up for feed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5078.jpg

Yet deer love the inexpensive cover crop

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Deer%20in%20Oats/DeerinOats.jpg

and clearly they have copious amounts of feed with lush white clover on one side and white and red in the standing rye

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Deer%20in%20Oats/DeerinOats1.jpg

The berseem clover is taking off

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5104.jpg

Safely shielded by the growing oats

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5105.jpg

and starting to fix nitrogen for the next crop

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5076.jpg

the chickling vetch loves to attach itself to the oat stems

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5080.jpg

to get a leg up on life! The vetch also is able to fix well over 100#'s of N per acre

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5082.jpg

The Oats and legumes will add a tremendous amount of biomass when tilled under for the winter rye combination planting in late August and as the legumes decompose they will release a large portion of the N required by the rye, oats and forage radish.

Don't let you spent/dead brassica plot set empty and barren all summer, doing so promotes disease and encourages your whitetails to go elsewhere for feed rather then becoming adapted to always finding food sources in that same exact spot, day after day, year after year.... :way:

davidoswalt054

06-11-2011, 06:38 PM

I took apart a platform that was left by one of the cell tower people that was 14' long and 4ft wide two years ago. We are going up in two weeks to build a bridge across the stream using the cell tower platform that was constructed with galvanized I beams and steel grid work. Using that platform plus another 8 in. x 14 ft I beam off a fire scene, with 2ft x 14 ft galvanized catwalk decking from the cell tower site, we should have a bridge 6'x14' of galvanized steel to drive the tractor across the steam and begin using a tiller, plow, disc, etc... back where we hunt. So far everythings been done by hand and a honda 500 4x4. Here goes nothing-----------the steel has been back on the site for a year now.

dno
Im' going up there for sure

dbltree

06-22-2011, 07:14 AM

June 22nd, 2011

The great thing about planting oats and annual clovers in your spent brassica plot is that it provides a source of lush, very attractive feed that continues to keep deer coming to your plot. If one leaves the brassica plot idle...there is nothing but weeds for the summer. Not good for your soil nor your whitetail management program!

It's amazing how big oats can get and still be attractive, despite knee deep clover right beside it!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5247.jpg

The keep grazing it which helps in keeping them adapted to coming there as well as taking pressure off from soybeans and corn growing adjacent to the oats.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5248.jpg

The berseem clover is just quietly working behind the scenes fixing nitrogen

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5249.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5258.jpg

as is the chickling vetch...a source of nitrogen and biomass when I till it under in August for the rye combination

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5250.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5259.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5260.jpg

A bonus is that the oats will eventually mature and head out so I will mow them to shatter the oat seed, then till it under to plant rye/peas/radish and red clover...and have my oats re-seeded for free!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/IMG_5257.jpg

Where possible, staggering the oat plantings will keep deer focused on the plot even after the original oats have matured.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/CIMG3040.jpg

Once again relentless torrential rainfall has kept SE Iowa soils waterlogged and berseem does not like wet feet! Very apparent in this photo where water is drowning the berseem in the low areas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Cover%20Crops/CIMG3050.jpg

You can of course use exclusion cages or close observation to determine usage but I use a trail cam that shows how even this little strip of oats between rye/red clover and white clover strips gets plenty of visits!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Deer%20in%20Oats/O1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Deer%20in%20Oats/O2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Deer%20in%20Oats/O3.jpg

Oats are cheap and easy to plant and it's not to late to convert idle plots to a lush source of food to keep deer focused on your plot and not the neighbors! Adding an annual clover and/or vetch will further build your soil organic matter, become a source of additional nitrogen and feed deer when the oats mature.

Oats and annual clovers...plant them for a summer cover crop and....everybody wins.... :way:

davidoswalt054

06-22-2011, 09:35 AM

Started my first combo strip plot yesterday and plan the brassicas for about 3 weeks from now--Michigan timing as a second, and plan a third for the winter with rye and whatever else will work with that.

DNO
i'm going up there for sure some day

KSQ2

06-22-2011, 09:57 AM

dbltree

06-22-2011, 12:01 PM

Dbltree, last year was our first successful year for brassicas. When January rolled around with the snow the deer attacked our little brassica plot. One thing that puzzled me a little bit though, is the deer didn't touch the actual turnip roots. Does it take the deer a while to learn to eat the roots? The ground was pretty hard, but nothing like what you guys face temperature-wise.

Sometimes....depends on the availability of other food sources but usually they will figure out those roots are good to eat and then will plow snow for them!:way:

LoessHillsArcher

06-22-2011, 12:58 PM

Dbltree, last year was our first successful year for brassicas. When January rolled around with the snow the deer attacked our little brassica plot. One thing that puzzled me a little bit though, is the deer didn't touch the actual turnip roots. Does it take the deer a while to learn to eat the roots? The ground was pretty hard, but nothing like what you guys face temperature-wise.

Same happened for us with our first succesful brassica plot last year.. purple top turnips and rape. We found one turnip that had was half eaten, that was it.. there wasn't a leaf left come spring though!

KSQ2

06-22-2011, 02:04 PM

Sometimes....depends on the availability of other food sources but usually they will figure out those roots are good to eat and then will plow snow for them!:way:

That's what I hope happens this year, it seemed such a waste when tilling all those rotting turnips up this past spring. This year we'll be adding groundhog radishes to the menu, I'm excited to see what happens!

Same happened for us with our first succesful brassica plot last year.. purple top turnips and rape. We found one turnip that had was half eaten, that was it.. there wasn't a leaf left come spring though!

I hear you there! The deer were even nibbling on the green regrowing from the spent turnip roots this past spring.

SDHunt24/7

06-26-2011, 01:33 PM

dbltree

06-26-2011, 02:19 PM

It will be time to seed brassicas before we know it.:) I have always used the expensive name brand seed in the past, but this year I plan to order from welter seed. As a rule do you usually plant about 10 lbs of different mix per acre? I have picked out what I am interested in from their list.

If planting only rape and turnips, 5#'s is plenty to that you can add up to 5#'s of forage radish but that is only going to be successful if you fertilize heavily!

I use 200#'s urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 although on very fertile soils you may need little or no P&K (soil test as if for corn to know for certain)

Just like corn however, brassicas require plenty of nitrogen and lacking it they will suffer on most soils.

The reason you can add forage radish (appearing to double the rate) is because deer will generally choose it first by late August to early September effectively thinning the plot. This helps keep them from wiping out the rape and turnips before season however so it makes a great combo.

The following mix will work great for just about anyone anywhere...

3# Purple Turnips
2# Dwarf Essex Rape
5# GroundHog Forage Radish

Do not substitute the radish seed for another brassica such as rape or turnips...;)

dbltree

06-26-2011, 09:00 PM

Mid July is brassica planting time in most of the Midwest, slightly sooner in the far north and a little later in the south and since there are always new people exploring these threads it's worth while to hit some high points and summarize a few key planting points.

In General...

1) Keep your food sources centrally located rather then multiple plots spread over the farm. Depending on deer densities, roughly 3-6 acres per 80-120 acres.

2) Plant multiple crops within any given plot or field, rather then brassicas in plot A and clover in plot B.

3)Adapt deer to coming to one place to feed year around by planting a combination of food sources that FEED them year around.

4) Clover, brassicas and cereal grains make a great crop rotation to also provide year around feed.

5) Plant different crops in strips or blocks that cause deer to move from one food source to another rather then congregating in one place, in effect wiping out a given food source.

Multiple strips in a large field

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/IMG_0024.jpg

A simple 3 strip combination in a small place

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/IMG_0006.jpg

White clover provides a food source nearly year around, brassicas from July thru March and the winter rye/oats/peas/radish and red clover from September to the following summer when tilled under for a rotation to brassicas. If your new and learning, get your mind clear of the idea that you are just planting for hunting season unless you want them to start living on the neighbors place??

Get away from the notion that an entire field must be planted to one crop rather then multiple crops and buy seed with the knowledge that "Buck on a Bag " seed is not magic nor one bit more attractive then good quality seed from your local supplier.

Brassicas

How much of what seed to plant?

This topic can get confusing but this ratio will work well for most people

3# Purple Top Turnips
2# Dwarf Essex rape
5# Groundhog forage radishif you remove the radish seed you cannot add 5 more pounds of rape or turnips...why?

Deer will focus on the forage radish first, in effect thinning the stand but at the same time relieving pressure from the rape and turnips allowing them to mature. This is GHFR in a mixed stand in late August....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Forage%20Radish/CIMG1729.jpg

There is a method to my madness and a reason why things work or don't work so while any mix can be tweaked I have found this one to work very well on multiple farms in many different situations.

You can switch turnip or rape varieties but if you read back thru this thread you'll see that never once have deer showed a preference for any other rape or turnip variety over those old standbys listed. That being said any of them will work well.

This brassica plot has ALL of the major "brand" brassica seed planted in strips along side standard varieties such as those listed above that cost a fraction as much and it is impossible to tell the difference nor did deer choose one over another.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BiologicMax10-10.jpg

How much fertilizer?

If you want your brassica stand to look like this...you'll need to plan to fertilize heavily unless yo are blessed with naturally rich, fertile soils and even then you cannot keep taking not not putting back.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicaswestfield.jpg

A general guideline is to use 200#'s of urea and 400#'s of 6-28-28 or 400-500#'s of triple 19. If your tilling under a lush crop of clover you may need less nitrogen but those are basic numbers to start with. If you are on a very limited budget, brassica s are probably not your best option because like corn they are somewhat expensive to grow. if you have never planted them before, start small...don't bet the farm on them the first year. Plant them along side cereals and clovers and see how deer react to them and then go from there, sometimes they wipe them out the first year other times they may adapt to them slowly over 2-3 years.

Welter Seed (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductTypes.aspx) is a great source for seeds by the pound at a reasonable price but always check with your local supplier first to avoid shipping and handling costs if you can.

After telling Aaron Palm of Iowa-Missouri hybrids in Keosauqua my seed needs, he agreed to carry all of them, again at very reasonable prices minus the shipping costs, so sometimes a visit to your local seed supply can be worth while.

Brassicas are an important tool in our whitetail management programs but when starting out be aware of the limitations and requirements involved in successfully growing a lush, healthy stand of high quality brassicas.... :way:

Hardwood11

06-27-2011, 08:50 AM

Dtree: I normally plant my brassica in late July or August, but this year I have an acre that I planted in early June. It was broadcast seeded and then it didn't rain for 10 days, after that it has been cool and wet.

Checked it last evening and it is kind of hit and miss. It appears that I will have to mow it as weeds are common and outpacing the brassica seed.

Do you see any drawbacks to mowing in August, or any other recommendation, I could re-do it but would prefer not to.

KSHUNTER

06-27-2011, 11:05 AM

I planted a 70 foot wide strip of corn, on both ends the corn is doing really well, in the middle of the strip, poor soil conditions at planting lead to a poor stand, and is very thin. The soil is very "clay Knob" like and become very hard very quick, Im planning on putting brassicas in at this spot. The thin spot consist of about 1/4 of an acre or so.

First, I fertilized heavily, but will brassicas grow very well in clay soil? Second, will broadcasting before a rain yeild a sufficent stand?

My other thought is I have access to a 1000 gallon water tank with a pump, if I saturate the area with water, then broadcast and water again would this enough to cover the seed as along as I don't drown it?

dbltree

06-27-2011, 03:10 PM

Do you see any drawbacks to mowing in August, or any other recommendation, I could re-do it but would prefer not to.

You can clip it (don't mow it close) and it may recover but most likely will not recover in the way you hope. Keep us posted however if you do mow and let us know how it works out?

Stinger and clethodim are weed control options for brassicas also...

First, I fertilized heavily, but will brassicas grow very well in clay soil? Second, will broadcasting before a rain yeild a sufficent stand?

All of mine are grown in heavy clay soils and they may do alright with a good soaking but more then likely in your dry soils the seed will germinate and then lacking continual moisture...will die. If you get timely rains it can do great overseeded so you would have to weigh the odds on that versus conventional tilling and seeding. ;)

Scott

06-27-2011, 07:16 PM

dbltree

06-28-2011, 08:51 AM

Not feeling like shelling out the cash for a cultipacker this year, what are people using for a home brew model on brassicas? Chainlink fence? Tire? Tiller? I cant find one for less than $500 and these food plots are starting to get expensive so its going to have to wait a year before I get one.

The best thing I have found is to run the ATV back n forth over any small seeds like brassicas or clover. Little time consuming but it works perfectly!

I do this before seeding, then broadcast seed, then run the the ATV back over it...:way:

KSQ2

06-28-2011, 09:24 AM

Perhaps all of your old dealerships have already been scavenged, but I found two old cultipackers for $45 bucks a year ago, at a Bolivar, MO, old implement dealer. I'm talking about the "dealer" who's 90 years old and has every possible piece of farming junk you can imagine setting on his place. They used to be everywhere around here, until scrap metal got so high.

SEIowaDeerslayer

06-28-2011, 10:43 AM

The best thing I have found is to run the ATV back n forth over any small seeds like brassicas or clover. Little time consuming but it works perfectly!

I do this before seeding, then broadcast seed, then run the the ATV back over it...:way:

I did this a couple of years ago with my truck after discing up an acre of clover and the plot turned out fine. There's more than 1 way to skin a cat.

AIRASSAULT

06-28-2011, 06:23 PM

In the background is a little plot I planted a couple weeks ago with Evolved Harvest Shot Plot Forage Rape and Brassicas that I bought from Farm & Fleet. I planted it last September with Biologic Maximum and the deer cleared that off. About a month ago I sprayed it ,then, two weeks ago, I raked off the leaves and sticks with a garden rake, broadcasted the Shot Plot, then broadcasted a bag of Triple 13, then used the ATV method to cultipack it because I can't get my cultipacker back that far into the timber. This spot is very low light from a lot of trees around and is sandy soil. It's right next to one of my deer stands, but, it seems to be doing well. Not a single weed in it..........yet. I think I went a little heavy on the seed too. In the foreground is a plot of Biologic Clover Plus that I planted last year. The deer are absolutely annihalating the chicory in the Biologic plot. Thanks Dbltree for all the info on IowaWhitetail that made these plots possible! :way:
http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/260204_10150254313774609_500039608_6943994_2586192 _n.jpg

dbltree

06-29-2011, 05:33 PM

Nice work! Keep us posted on growth and usage this fall...:way:

dbltree

07-03-2011, 08:02 AM

If you are planning on turning under some sod to plant brassicas, it's extremely important to get the sod killed first. ideally it's best to mow it, allow it to re-grow a week or so and then kill it with glyphosate. Due to abnormally heavy rainfall this spring and summer I finally had no choice but to spray some 4' high cool season grass "as is". I used 2 quarts of 41% gly, 1 quart of crop oil along with AMS and it nuked the grass within a week, after which it finally dried out enough to get get mowed.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Killedsod.jpg

Decomposing sod can suck a lot of moisture and nitrogen out of the soil in the first few weeks after being tilled under, so I like to get it tilled under a few weeks ahead of time when possible.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Workingsod.jpg

Breaking up the sod grass ahead of time also allows fescue seeds to germinate and then killed by tilling them under before planting and it's also a great time to get lime and P&K tilled in. Landowners that live far from there property may find they need to do everything in one weekend but for those who are able to get work done as needed, consider getting any sod areas broken up ahead of time. ;)

magnus

07-03-2011, 04:36 PM

Nice looking tiller you have there!!

Nontypcl1

07-08-2011, 09:49 AM

what's the best choice of brassica to overseed into late planted soybeans or does it make much difference. I plan on overseeding both rye and brassicas either together or in separate strips.

dbltree

07-08-2011, 11:50 AM

what's the best choice of brassica to overseed into late planted soybeans or does it make much difference. I plan on overseeding both rye and brassicas either together or in separate strips.

I like using the forage radish the best because they can put on a lot of growth in 30 days but purple Top Turnips can also do very well if your able to get them on a little earlier...;)

dbltree

07-10-2011, 05:25 PM

July 10th, 2011

I went to our local seed store to pick up the seed I ordered only to find Tiffany beat me to it....sheesh....does "Evolved Harvest" know about this?? :rolleyes::D

I figured I could at least get started putting P&K put on where I will be planting brassicas

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Fertilizer.jpg

and applied 400#'s of 6-28-28 per acre...a good crop of canola where the entire crop is used (for oil and straw) will use about 46#'s of phosphate and 83#'s of potassium per acre. Like soybeans following corn however we can build up P&K and use little if any on the rye/clover crop to follow.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Spreadingfertilizer.jpg

After two months of relentless rains it has turned off hot and dry and under those conditions I prefer to till the clover cover crop under a week or so ahead of time to allow decomp to begin and get the P&K tilled in.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Tillingclover.jpg

I'll be planting 3#'s of Purple Top Turnips, 2#'s of Dwarf Essex Rape and 5#'s of GH forage radish, so I'll add 200#'s of urea next week just before planting and till that in as well. Those with limited time can of course till all fertilizer and lime in at the same time, cultipack, broadcast seed and cultipack again and be done.

All of the plots I work with either have or will have multiple crops growing in them, primarily a 40/40/20 of cereals, brassicas and white clovers planted in separate strips or blocks. That concept is still confusing for some so these are pics on a smaller scale that cover multiple things that are all important.

This is a sample of what good summer food plot might look like....in the fall and winter this small area contains white clover (foreground), brassicas (center) and winter rye/oats/peas/radish and clover (back ground). The brassicas of course are long gone as of last winter so the center was planted to oats and annual berseem clover this spring...leaving it looking like this in July.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Crop%20Rotations/Rot1.jpg

In this case I left the winter rye standing simply to show that no harm will come from doing so and the mix of white and red clovers have thrived.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Crop%20Rotations/Rot2.jpg

The rye clover mix gets rotated to brassicas an in one pass using a King Kutter tiller, I completely turned under the rye straw and thick lush clover.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Crop%20Rotations/Rot3.jpg

Unlike the average plot however, this one still contains plenty of lush high quality feed from both the white clover on the right and the berseem clover hidden in the oats. Deer fed heavily on the oats before it began to mature.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Crop%20Rotations/Rot5.jpg

So while I have turned under some beautiful clover as a green manure crop for this years brassicas, clover still remains. In late August I will till under the oats and berseem, essentially replanting the oats to which I will add winter rye, forage peas, forage radish and red clover.

Each year I rotate the brassicas and rye mix until such time that the perennial white clover strip begins to wear out at which time I will move everything over a strip and that spot will be in brassicas.

Strip plotting is not only an effective means of lowering the risk of disease and pest problems by breaking the cycles but also an extremely important tool in adapting deer to coming to one central food source year around...unless of course you would like them to stay on the neighbors place.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Crop%20Rotations/Rot4.jpg

Now I just have to find a blond wig and see if I can get my seed.... ;)

BBD Big Buck Down

07-12-2011, 03:50 PM

i dont know if this was already posted or not but out of all the brassicas what were your top 3 favorite for deer in the fall?

dbltree

07-12-2011, 03:56 PM

i dont know if this was already posted or not but out of all the brassicas what were your top 3 favorite for deer in the fall?

I did a comparison last fall and it's posted in this thread but they killed the Groundhog forage radish first, ate it clean to the dirt, then focused on the rape plants and lastly the turnips.

They did not choose one variety over another but one species over the others which really works out perfectly when planted together.

The forage radish kept them from decimating the rape and turnips which was then focused on later in the season with the turnip roots being eaten well after the first of the year...;)

BBD Big Buck Down

07-12-2011, 04:01 PM

Alright, looks like i'll be planting those. Thanks for all your posts, they are really helpful!

bearcatbaseball10

07-13-2011, 04:44 PM

Put in our order today from Welters! got 5 lbs of DER, 8 each of Burkant and purple tops, and 10 lbs of GHR. Our mixture is going to be 1 lbs DER, 1.5 lbs of each Burkant and purple tops, and 2 lbs of GHR!

Also ordered a bushel of winter rye and winter wheat....and we cured the tractor issues, a 1966 JD 3020 came home with us the other day :) just shy of 5300 hours on it so shes good to go! Along with a 10' disk....can't argue with that.

FYI Welters is a great company to work with! Super nice, very customer oriented!

dbltree

07-13-2011, 05:35 PM

dbltree

07-14-2011, 02:06 PM

Fodder beets are by no means new but not something I have planted thus far but Grassland Oregon has asked me to give some beet/brassica seed combinations a try. Beets of course are not brassicas and fodder beets like sugar beets really should be planted in the spring for optimum growth but we'll get some in the dirt and see how they do.

Fodder beets is the highest yielding forage crop any one can grow. The energy rich fodder beets are complementing the use of grass or protein rich legumes in the diet of the cattle. In many countries fodder beets serve as the reliable winter storage of feed. In other countries fodder beets play an important role in supplying forage in dry periods late in the summer.

General info on growing fodder beets

Fodder beet growing guideline (http://www.dlf.com/Other_Products/Beets/Technical_info.aspx)

Stay tuned... ;)

dbltree

07-15-2011, 01:17 PM

July 15th, 2011

It's time to plant brassicas however in SE Iowa we have been 2 weeks without substantial rainfall and are facing 10 days of excessive heat and no foreseeable rain events. Under those conditions the tiny brassica seedlings may germinate and then die so check the forecast in your area along with your soil conditions before deciding to plant or not.

I think I'm going to hold off rather then have to re-plant...

Excessive Heat Watch

Saturday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 90. South wind around 5 mph.

Saturday Night: Partly cloudy, with a low around 73.

Sunday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 93.

Sunday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 77.

Monday: Sunny and hot, with a high near 95.

Monday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 78.

Tuesday: Sunny and hot, with a high near 95.

Tuesday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 78.

Wednesday: Sunny and hot, with a high near 97.

Wednesday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 79.

Thursday: A slight chance of showers and thunderstorms. Sunny and hot, with a high near 97.

jboswell

07-16-2011, 09:01 PM

Planted some today... not sure if I should have... I hope they make it but the forecast doesn't look much better in SouthWest Iowa

jmm46

07-19-2011, 07:20 AM

jmm46

07-19-2011, 10:14 AM

here's the 10 day forcast...
http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/USMN0137

dbltree

07-19-2011, 12:43 PM

Our forecast is about the same for rain chances...if the soil is dry, very dry on the surface the seed should just lay there until it gets rain to germinate it.

That part isn't a problem but what can be a problem is if there is just enough moisture to germinate the seed but then we get an extreme, hot dry period. I'm thinking the extreme heat period is ending soon...hopefully that's not just wishful thinking. :rolleyes:

I'm going to try planting some tomorrow in hopes we either...

A) Get a good rain this weekend

or

B) we get a good rain this weekend...:D

loneranger

07-19-2011, 02:58 PM

It is Ironic that we had more than months worth of rain in April,May, and June,in SE Iowa, and now nothing about for the month of July. This Heat Dome has engulfed the Mid=west. Last couple of summers it mostly sat over the west coast. This brought the Jet Streams of active weather frequently into Iowa. This summer I noticed the High-Block never sat on the west coast,not much on the east coast, just right beneath Iowa and Mo. Thankfully it took until now to build north. So bad in Texas that I heard a rancher say if he could find hay to buy is cost more than his cows! There is no sign this pattern will break down until the longer nights of late Aug and Sept cut into it. When something this big gets to like a spot,,it stays there. I am holding off on planting anything until late Aug, up to Sept. First time I planted Rape last yr. First of Sept, and it got very large by mid Oct. I know Turnips and probably Radish take longer to produce a bulb. Just saying I think the days of frequent rains are gone.

turkeyriver

07-19-2011, 04:56 PM

Agree with loneranger. I won't plant till this thing looks like it's breaking up. Unfortunately, the La Nina is now strengthening again instead of continuing to weaken like the "experts" thought it would. So, like last year, a dry fall and nasty winter. Just glad I don't live in Texas, at least till Dec.

dbltree

07-19-2011, 07:55 PM

Don't blame you fellas for waiting but I'll risk 20 bucks worth of seed...no big deal, if it doesn't rain I'll replant, but by late August it won't be with brassicas...at least not turnips. I'll go with the cereal combo that late, it's far more productive.

I'd rather have seed in the ground when an unexpected popup storm hits then wishing I did. :rolleyes:

Predicting the weather is impossible...but if it doesn't rain til the end of August...we'll have a lot worse problems then a little turnip seed lost...;)

loneranger

07-20-2011, 03:58 AM

Yes,like keeping the young trees alive I have planted out in the fields,,thinking the good growing conditions would keep going as in the past 3 summers. I can't possibly get enough water to them. Only once a wk a couple gallons. This is a test for the tough,,me and the trees.People don't look at Heat like other weather events, like Tornados or Hurricanes, but more people die from Heat than any other weather phenomina!Heard the longest Heat wave ever reported in Ottumwa was 20 days.

waylonb19

07-20-2011, 01:23 PM

Yep I was just thinking of throwing some brassica out here soon too. Weather said we might catch a rain tom. I don't think I will get them out in time but maybe this weekend some rain chances will come on.

loneranger

07-20-2011, 03:46 PM

If you are north of I-80 you have a chance,,if you are south of there down twards Mo. Pray Alot!

letemgrow

07-20-2011, 03:54 PM

If you are north of I-80 you have a chance,,if you are south of there down twards Mo. Pray Alot!

I sure have been praying a lot, just checked the moisture depth on my beanfield and I could feel moisture about 3 inches down. The beans have huge leaves and plenty of blooms so a rain this weekend would be fantastic. If not, they surely have enough energy to go 25 bushel which is more than my break even point....then I can seed some radishes, and rye/oats in the yellowing beans this August...if all goes as planned.

The one thing to remember about farming/plotting is it NEVER stays the same. I knew these last 3 years could not hold up forever....just wishing they would have held on thru July.

dbltree

07-21-2011, 07:06 PM

July 21, 2011

Couple things you hear from the old timers...

We're always only 2 weeks away from a drought...

and...

Rain or shine...plant turnips July 29...Lot of truth in both statements...even though we were inundated with heavy rains thru May and June here in SE Iowa, nearly 5" above normal...it hasn't rained here since June 28th. Three weeks without rain combined with searing heat 98-100 degrees, day after day.

Earlier long term forecasts called for below normal temps and above normal precip for July which only raises the awareness that we simply cannot predict the weather with any degree of certainty. If we get an inch of rain today and plant brassicas tomorrow...we may not get another rain for weeks, just a reality and risk of planting anything, anytime!

That brings us to the "July 29" saying... turnips are not unlike a shorter season version of corn, they need a certain amount of days to produce any reasonable amount of yield (roots). the whole object of growing turnips is to produce a root that whitetails will feed on during the winter months. Turnips are the least favored of the "forage" brassicas, with radish and rape plants being far more palatable and sought after. From a forage aspect, the forage varieties and species also produce far more forage if planted in mid summer versus early fall.

Here are the average rainfall amounts for my county...

July 4.25 Inches
August 3.93 Inches
September 3.72 Inches
October 2.79 InchesThe longer we wait, the greater the chance of decreased rainfall....so we play the averages and take a gambol that we'll get the "average" rainfall at minimum. Some years we win, some years we lose and those who put all their eggs in one basket by planting only one crop...lose ALL!

Farmers don't plant corn in July and they don't plant turnips in September...they take huge risks and have faith it will all work out. They count on soybeans to fill in when corn fails, so when the minimum growing time is reached for corn, they switch to soybeans and if that minimum growing time passes, they may plant wheat.

With all of that in mind I encourage landowners not to bet the farm on any one crop and when the optimum time for beans or brassicas has passed, switch to cereals in late summer but whenever possible plant some of each in each plot. Mid July through mid August gives us ample growth time for 60-90 day brassicas but waiting for a rain is no guarantee we'll get a second and third to keep them going.

I tilled in 400#'s of 6-28-28 a week earlier and tilled in 200#'s of urea earlier this week, killing any newly germinated weeds with the second tilling.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Spreadingurea-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Strip1.jpg

Chances of rain increased late this week as a front sags south and east but even at that they will be hit or miss storms. The soil is so dry on the surface however that the tiny seeds will not germinate until we do get rain so i decided to get them planted and hope for the best.

I cultipacked first (note the strips of soybeans and clover in these fields...even if one crop fails, all is not lost)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Strip2.jpg

I planted the following mix per acre

3#'s Purple top Turnips
2#'s Dwarf Essex Rape
5#'s of Groundhog Forage RadishThe mix of seeds looks like this...the radish seeds nearly twice the size of the PTT and DER

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Mix.jpg

I use a bag seeder and adjust the opening so it just allows the largest seeds to pass thru

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Spreader.jpg

The tiny seeds are nearly impossible to see on the soil surface making them easy to overseed...how many seeds do you count in this photo?

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Seeds.jpg

Once the seed is on I cultipack again

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Packer.jpg

Just enough to press the tiny seeds into the top 1/8" to 1/4" deep

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Finished.jpg

These are new fields that are being subdivided into blocks that will contain white clover, brassicas and the winter rye combination...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Field3.jpg

Right now they have nothing to eat but this is the last season that will ever be the case and even if a crop fails there will be plenty of other food sources to fill the void.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Field2.jpg

The Long term Iowa weather forecast (http://www.weather.gov/view/prodsByState.php?state=ia&prodtype=discussion) calls for increased chances of "pops" (pop up T-storms)....maybe I'll get lucky, maybe I won't but we have everything to gain if the seed is in the ground when a storm finally rolls thru.... ;)

turkeyriver

07-21-2011, 07:31 PM

Weather forecast really changed for us in NE iowa. Sooooo, I planted my rapeturnipgroundhogradish mix this morning while it was thundering and getting darker by the minute. Then it proceeded to break up and go around me, leaving just a sprinkle. I'm blaming it on Bonker since one of the plots was for him and well, he's just bad luck. Got another heavy sprinkle this evening and more possible overnight so maybe all is not lost. You're right though, sometimes you just have to plant no matter what the forecast is.

turkeyriver

07-22-2011, 07:59 AM

1 1/2 inches of rain overnight!!!! Hope everyone else gets their plots watered.

letemgrow

07-22-2011, 01:28 PM

1 1/2 inches of rain overnight!!!! Hope everyone else gets their plots watered.

Not a drop on mine just south of the IA line. Looks like most of IA got the last 2 good soakers tho.

antlerfreak

07-22-2011, 01:51 PM

I planted my turnips last night and got about a 1/2 in of rain shortly after. I hope thats enough to make it through the next couple weeks of heat if we dont see anymore rain.

dbltree

07-22-2011, 08:23 PM

1 1/2 inches of rain overnight!!!! Hope everyone else gets their plots watered.

At least we have someone who can post pic of brassica this summer...:way::D

Not a drop in my neck of the woods...:(

Fishbonker

07-22-2011, 09:43 PM

1 1/2 inches of rain overnight!!!! Hope everyone else gets their plots watered.

My plot got watered today. Problem is there isn't any seed in it. Always a week late. If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all.

ajadams

07-23-2011, 09:25 AM

I wish I would have gotten my turnips and GHR planted planted this week, just shy of 3" last night. At least my other plots and nwsg's will benefit.

turkeyriver

07-25-2011, 11:46 AM

dbltree

07-25-2011, 12:05 PM

Checked my turnipsradishesrape that I scattered on bare ground last Thurs. morn. and got good rain that night. Should have had my camera along as I couldn't believe how they had sprouted! Will be back up there tonite and will try to take a pic. Really amazing how fast they can get going in the right conditions. I take back what I said about you Bonker!!!

Sweet! Keep us posted! :way:

On one of the farms where I help manage the habitat, the landowner has his own equipment and we worked together to get his brassicas planted last week.

We had Crop Services spread P&K and pellet lime earlier

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Spreader-1.jpg

Then I spread 200#'s of urea per acre

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Urea.jpg

and he tilled it in right behind me

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Tiller.jpg

and I followed that operation with a Brillion seeder...with two packers and accurate seed metering it is a sweet outfit for sowing small seeds minus the "guesswork"

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/BrillionSeeder.jpg

We're getting his plots "subdivided" into strips of brassicas and eventually rye/oats/peas/radish and red and white clover and screened with Egyptian Wheat

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Finishedseeding.jpg

We're improving soil fertility through soil testing and adding needed nutrients and planting multiple crops within hidden central feeding areas that can easily be rotated yearly. Deer will quickly adapt to having all their needs met, year around in one place next to premium bedding cover.

Now...we just need some rain... ;)

jboswell

07-26-2011, 07:37 AM

At least we have someone who can post pic of brassica this summer...:way::D

Not a drop in my neck of the woods...:(

Mine either.... brassica plots are like powder... hopefully we will get some rain later this week... if not the plots are getting planted to oats / winter rye mix come labor day weekend

dedgeez

07-27-2011, 07:33 AM

turkeyriver

07-27-2011, 09:14 AM

Thanks for putting the pics up dedgeez. As you can see, the stand of beans is a little thin, so I'm hoping to beef it up with turnipsradishesrape mixture. The timing of the rain couldn't have been better and you can see how well stuff germinated, even though there is some dead grass cover in the beans. Hopefully this plot will pull in a doe for Bonker!

dbltree

07-27-2011, 12:30 PM

Keep us posted on growth of the brassicas in the beans Turkeyriver :way:

July 27th, 2011

I planted some various brassica and beet mixes and individual species and varieties in the garden the other day and turned the sprinkler on after planting...they were up the next morning!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/7-25Brassicasprouting.jpg

If I could only get rain on all the brassica plots I'd be all set!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicasprouts.jpg

I planted the following mix from Grassland Oregon

40% PT Turnips

35% Tillage Radishes

10% Inka Kale

7.5% Ursus Poly Fodder Beets

7.5% Record Poly Fodder Beets

and individual plantings as well

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5510.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5512.jpg

The fodder beets should really be planted a 1/2 deep

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5511.jpg

so that can be a problem when combining them with the tiny brassica seed like kale

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5514.jpg

I broadcast the mix on top and ran over it with the ATV so we'll see how that compares to those I actually row planted. These are fodder beets grown at Grassland

5 weeks old

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/FodderBeets5wks.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/FodderBeets-5weeks.jpg

The above mix at 3 weeks

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/BRB3weeks.jpg

I also planted Winton Swede Forage Brassica and Kestrel Kale from Welter Seed (http://www.welterseed.com/productItems.aspx?id=3&org=0) for a comparison. All of the forage radish seed being sold is VNS (Variety Not Stated) so while it has trademarked "names" like Groundhog, Trophy and Tillage...there is no verifiable difference in the seed. I tested them last year and there was zero difference but since there are always new folks reading these threads I planted them again along side the other brassicas and beets previously mentioned.

I'll share growth in both my test area and food plot situations that are at the mercy of the weather as the summer wears on... ;)

dbltree

07-28-2011, 02:36 PM

This time of year the forums are often lit up with questions about which brassica to buy? Hunter landowners often see only adds in hunting magazines and therefore see only seeds advertised by companies who target that market...unknowing hunters with little or no background in farming and even less knowledge about the actual dietary needs of a whitetail and the growth habits of the advertised seeds.

I have spent an inordinate amount of time and money testing all kinds and types of seeds/crops, especially brassicas in part because common sense tells me that there is no magic bullet, no seed worth 3 to 5 times the real value of that seed. On the other end of the spectrum however I wanted to be certain that one rape plant for instance did not have a distinct advantage over another and that some mix of seeds did not contain some perfect combination that indeed made it worth the extra money.

I am just a working man but if there were a dramatic difference I could afford to spend an extra 10-20 bucks on seed if it had specific benefits not available in other commonly available seeds but...try as I might I have not been able to find even the slightest difference either in performance, yield or attractiveness to deer.

Keep in mid that there are distinct differences in species but not varieties of plants. Whitetails for instance will seek out forage radish over forage rape, and rape over turnips and so on but those are different species of brassicas just as cauliflower and broccoli are different brassicas.

Lee and Tiffany Lakosky are also able not only to purchase any seed they want but in fact have sponsors standing in line to give them literally anything they need in turn for the advertising. Currently Evolved Harvest is their sponsor yet it is interesting to note that that they stop by the same local seed supply that I do and pick up bags of ordinary low cost seeds such as Dwarf Essex rape and Purple Top Turnips. Lee was a chemical engineer and certainly a bright man who would leave no stone unturned in his effort to attract and hold whitetails...yet he relies on the same dependable, economical stand byes that I do.

Choose whichever seed you feel is best for you and where possible do your own side by side testing but be aware that the seed you may be paying a premium for (because it comes in a pretty bag with a buck on it) may very well be the same seed that Lee and I buy at a fraction of the cost...in a plain white bag... ;)

My friend Mike up in WI got his brassicas in the other day...I'd love to have Mike's cultimulcher!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011planting091.jpg

Mikes are was desperate for rain but I believe they did receive some since this planting in late July

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011planting089.jpg

He planted Winifred hybrid , Purple tops, Dwarf Essex and Ground Hog radish seed...great choices and a great mix that includes various species that will provide food sources from late summer well into the new year! :way:

bryan

07-28-2011, 05:39 PM

dbltree

07-28-2011, 10:53 PM

Dbltree just wondering if Mike from WI had a seed sorce from WI or if he ordered from Welter's also... My local Co Op wont seperate big bags of seed to make my small order... I just ordered from Welters today with a steep shipping and handling charge... Possibly looking for a new place for next year...

I'll check with him and see...almost always less expensive to buy seed locally when possible or get several friends together and buy in bulk and divide it up...;)

ArcheryHunter

07-29-2011, 06:54 AM

Central Iowa

07-29-2011, 07:19 AM

Lee and Tiffany Lakosky are also able not only to purchase any seed they want but in fact have sponsors standing in line to give them literally anything they need in turn for the advertising. Currently Evolved Harvest is their sponsor yet it is interesting to note that that they stop by the same local seed supply that I do and pick up bags of ordinary low cost seeds such as Dwarf Essex rape and Purple Top Turnips. Lee was a chemical engineer and certainly a bright man who would leave no stone unturned in his effort to attract and hold whitetails...yet he relies on the same dependable, economical stand byes that I do.

Choose whichever seed you feel is best for you and where possible do your own side by side testing but be aware that the seed you may be paying a premium for (because it comes in a pretty bag with a buck on it) may very well be the same seed that Lee and I buy at a fraction of the cost...in a plain white bag... ;)

Yes alot of people would be surprised to see those pretty bags with tv hunters on them getting filled out of the same bins in the back room as the plain white ones! I have seen it first hand.

dbltree

07-29-2011, 10:05 AM

I planted PTT's, DE rape, and GH forage radishes last Sunday. For some reason southern Warren county is just not getting rain. I live in northern Warren and have had several nice showers.... How long can the seed survive without rain and need replanting or replacing with something else like winter rye and oats?

If there is not moisture to cause the seeds to germinate, they will lay there...possibly for months and then germinate when we get rain. The problem arises when we get a little rain, just enough to germinate them but then no continued moisture....then the tiny plants wither and die in the heat.

We have had a 1/4" in 30 days...going to be long hard summer in southern Iowa...:rolleyes:

bigdeerdaddy

07-29-2011, 02:47 PM

Can the brassica, radish and beet mix you planted be purchased online? I am interested in trying the mix in Georgia.

dbltree

07-29-2011, 03:21 PM

Can the brassica, radish and beet mix you planted be purchased online? I am interested in trying the mix in Georgia.

I'm checking on this right now...I was given seed to test so not sure if the mix is commercially available yet?

dbltree

07-29-2011, 04:07 PM

Can the brassica, radish and beet mix you planted be purchased online? I am interested in trying the mix in Georgia.

In your area....

contact Don Willis at DBW Outdoors who is based in the Atlanta area.
706-506-0204
Email: dbwoutdoors@yahoo.com
Website: http://dbwoutdoors.com/

dbltree

07-31-2011, 11:36 AM

July 21st, 2011

Well....we received a 1/4" of ran in SE Iowa....not much but after 30 days without a drop, we'll take it! The plots that have been in a good crop rotation where we have been tilling under rye and clover have significant organic matter built up which in turn holds soil moisture...critical in extended dry periods such as are having this year and the tiny brassicas are emerging.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5581.jpg

Some people were blessed with 1-2" of rain and there brassicas are exploding to life but it's a little tougher for ours...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5582.jpg

Fields with poor soil and lower OM have little or no germination

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5587.jpg

Thank goodness we have strip plots so there is always, always food sources there 365 days a year! Right now it's soybeans and clover keeping them coming while the brassicas wait for....rain....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5588.jpg

spltbrow

07-31-2011, 12:19 PM

Am i little behind beens i have not planted my brassicas yet? When is normal time to plant them? I am not planting alot but have some left from last year. The deere really didnt hit them much but there sure liked the GHFR.

dbltree

07-31-2011, 05:33 PM

Am i little behind beens i have not planted my brassicas yet? When is normal time to plant them? I am not planting alot but have some left from last year. The deer really didn't hit them much but there sure liked the GHFR.

Right now is the right time to plant...mid July thru early August, so any time now will work...:way:

bowhuntr311

08-02-2011, 01:21 PM

dbltree

08-02-2011, 02:47 PM

Alright I have an idea of what will happen if you add too much nitrogen to your brassica plots but like others have stated what will happen if a person dumps to much P&K.

Suggested rates appear to be 200 of Urea and 400 of 6-24-24. So what would happen if someone dumps 800lbs of 6-24-24? Will it hurt that plant or not get used and just be leeched away into the sub soil?

Unlike nitrogen P&K can be built up and stored so to speak so if you over applied it shouldn't hurt anything (unless it was to extremes) and should remain available.

Nitrogen can leach away within months if there is heavy rainfall so that we want to keep from applying more then the plants can use in one growing season...:way:

bryan

08-02-2011, 04:02 PM

Just planted my brassica mix and as soon as i got back in my truck it started to rain... Perfect timing cant wait to share some pics once it starts growing...

ollie085

08-02-2011, 08:19 PM

I planted 3 acres the last two days. A monster storm may have skirted just over the fields but missed town by a few miles. By monster I mean scary....it developed in forty five minutes and dropped a funnel visible from town.

dbltree

08-04-2011, 02:42 PM

August 4th,2011

We planted the last of the brassicas for this season yesterday on low ground that 6 weeks ago was flooded! Its amazing how heavy rains and flooding can compact soils so hopefully we'll get some much needed rain now so that the Groundhog Forage Radish can do it's job and loosen the terribly compacted soils.

Right now however the soil is bone dry and hard as a rock!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/DustyDry.jpg

2 1/2 more acres in the ground with 200#'s of urea per acre tilled in to boot...all we need is rain!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/EastField.jpg

Pics of irrigated fodder beets at 6 weeks

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/FodderBeets-week6.jpg

Interesting to see how big these get by October?

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/FodderBeetsweek6.jpg

As I post this...storms are firing up west of us...like so many times before, hard to get it excited but hoping for the best. Could be worse...I could live in Texas.... :eek:

Z7ohio32

08-04-2011, 02:58 PM

Planted my first ever brassica plot a couple weeks ago. I realize it's a fall plot, but when will deer start feeding on it?

dbltree

08-04-2011, 07:08 PM

Planted my first ever brassica plot a couple weeks ago. I realize it's a fall plot, but when will deer start feeding on it?

Depending on which brassica species you planted it could be late August to late November.

generally they hit the forage radish when it reaches 12" high or so and focus on those until they are wiped out, then the rape plants, later the turnip tops and lastly the turnip roots themselves.

Let us know what you observe on your brassicas this fall...;)

Z7ohio32

08-05-2011, 07:03 AM

The plot is Cabela's Ultimate Forage Brassica. It contains forage rape, forage turnip, and chicory. It has taken to the soil really well, an average height of about 8"-10" so far. Looking forward to see the deer benefit from it.

dbltree

08-07-2011, 04:58 PM

August 7th, 2011

Cheez Whiz...it's been a long, hot and very dry summer here in SE Iowa! No appreciable rainfall for almost 6 weeks in our area has made it nearly impossible to get any brassicas going. Only the soils where I have been tilling under winter rye and clover for 4 years now in a rotation with brassicas...has any brassica seed germinated. Even more amazing is that it germinated and hasn't died....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/8-5-11Brassicas.jpg

In all the other fields where organic matter is still very low, I have not found a single seed that has germinated. You can see the chopped up rye straw here and the lack of weeds among the tiny brassicas...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/August5-11Brassicas.jpg

A friend of mine planted his later then mine and was fortunate to get an inch of rain on them...night and day difference!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/FredsBrassicas8-5.jpg

We finally received a 1/2" yesterday and chances are at least good for more combined with cooler temps so perhaps there is hope for our brassicas yet.

If yours are up and growing...please share pics of growth this summer and fall.. :way:

letemgrow

08-07-2011, 08:43 PM

August 7th, 2011

Only the soils where I have been tilling under winter rye and clover for 4 years now in a rotation with brassicas...has any brassica seed germinated. Even more amazing is that it germinated and hasn't died....

Boy just think of what the plow down and poultry litter could grow in a situation like that. :way:

jboswell

08-08-2011, 11:06 AM

We got 3/4" this weekend finally..... I am hoping they come on quick.

Boz

08-08-2011, 03:31 PM

central Iowa PT turnips, DER and GHFR at 14 days where there has been plenty of rain. :grin:

Boz

08-08-2011, 03:32 PM

Hopefully the same mix we planted in southern Iowa last week will grow as good now that we got some rain down there.

Z7ohio32

08-08-2011, 03:34 PM

Brassica coming in good, 10-12" in some places. Received a 1/2" of rain yesterday right when it needed it.

943

944

dbltree

08-09-2011, 05:26 PM

You guys are killing me with the rain and beautiful brassicas! :thrwrck::D

Great job guys! :way:

Z7ohio32

08-12-2011, 10:16 AM

loneranger

08-12-2011, 02:27 PM

your lucky to have had a great rain supply. Mine is still and not germinating in the dust.

dbltree

08-12-2011, 08:10 PM

I am concerned about planting my Brassica plot too early. I planted it the 1st of July ( after reading it's best to plant mid to late July). The plot is healthy, and has had great rain supply. But I fear it may start to rot by the time it frosts here, which is usually the second week of october. Is it in trouble?

It may be fine, a little borderline but I would just watch that it doesn't start going to seed in late September, if not it should work out ok for you...;)

Z7ohio32

08-13-2011, 05:57 AM

It may be fine, a little borderline but I would just watch that it doesn't start going to seed in late September, if not it should work out ok for you...;)

Thanks for the input dbltree. I hope it lasts till the frost hits. Really want the deer to benefit from it. I'll keep ya updated with pics.

dbltree

08-14-2011, 01:09 PM

August 14th, 2011

I planted brassicas on farms that spanned a roughly 50 mile stretch which of course have received varying amounts of rainfall. The whole area has been excessively dry with the last significant rainfall on June 28th, so with planting done the third week of July all soils were powder dry already.

Near my home we have had less then a 1/2" in 46 days now and it had virtually no effect on the dry soils which still look like this...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica10.jpg

Zero germination thanks to no rain and mediocre organic matter

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica9.jpg

leaving nothing but bare, empty fields

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica8.jpg

35 miles to the west they received an inch of rain on top of the 1/2" we had and germination has now reached nearly 80-90%

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica2-4.jpg

Sown with a Brillion seeder, the seeding is uniform and coming up well

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica3-3.jpg

Fields with poor organic matter are a little less uniform

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica1-5.jpg

Then those with better OM

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica4-3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica5-3.jpg

The Groundhog forage radish are clearly growing faster then the rape and turnips

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica6-2.jpg

15 miles east with .400" of rain since planting but higher OM thanks to rye/clover plow downs germination is not uniform but growth after germination is good despite the drought.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5697.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5696.jpg

We have had day after day in which the forecast called for "drenching" rains of 1-2" and yet received not a single drop, so at this point I have little confidence in forecast from anyone. We have been by passed by storms when the forecast called for 70-100% chance of rain...that's just life and a reminder that regardless of how well we prepare, how much money we spend and how correct our planting procedures...we have zero control over the weather. Too much or too little can lead to complete failures or at best mediocre results.

Our only defense is to rely on multiple crops in each plot or field so that one can carry the load when another fails. Building soil organic matter and improving soil nutrients through crop rotations, tilling under green manure crops and soil testing to help us maintain balanced levels of soil nutrients and PH can be great "crop insurance" when the weather challenges us.

On some fields a rain now and then may get us by, on others it will be "rye to the rescue" as we re-plant using rye as the cornerstone in a mix that is far more drought tolerant.

Once brassicas get a good start they can take some dry weather and a friend was fortunate to get an inch of rain right after planting which made a significant difference in growth! He is hoping for rain just as I am but for now...his sure look a lot more promising!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/FredsBrassicas.jpg

Scott

08-14-2011, 03:41 PM

Its amazing people get paid to predict the weather. I wish I could still get paid to be wrong as many times as they have!

Boz

08-14-2011, 03:43 PM

Same central Iowa plot at 3 weeks, what a difference. Dbltree - we can not thank you enough for all the information that we have gained from you over the last year. Everything from seed and fertilizer rates to planting times. We've followed your instructions and look what has happened. Thank you!

Boz

08-14-2011, 03:53 PM

Southern Iowa brassica mix after one week and a couple inches of rain. This was pasture before being tilled under and seeded, no tilled corn to the right got planted late and sprayed late isn't going to produce any corn, good advice on having multiple food sources in one spot as clover and brassicas are going to make it. Thanks again Dbltree!

dbltree

08-14-2011, 08:20 PM

Looking good Boz...if only I knew how to make it rain?? :rolleyes:

KSQ2

08-15-2011, 09:35 AM

Weather is a funny thing. Three weeks ago I was wondering about planting our brassicas in mid-Aug. b/c of the lack of rain. NOW that's it's planting time, I'm having to wait a week longer than anticipated b/c it's too wet.:rolleyes: I'll be the first to admit, a WONDERFUL problem to have. Looks like I'll be able to get them in tomorrow evening, we've already tilled in beans and some corn, that both were hit hard by the deer, along with urea. One more quick round with the disk and cultipacker, and we'll be ready to go!

waylonb19

08-16-2011, 06:43 AM

We FINALLY are getting a rain in central IA. I ran out in the rain this morning and over seeded some brassicas into my soybeans which were thin in spots. Of course the forecast was calling for rain tom. so I was planning on seeding them today before the rain. But I woke up and it was drizzling so I ran out and did them. We needed a rain bad.

jboswell

08-16-2011, 07:01 AM

Oh yeah, we have received 2" this morning in my part of SW Iowa! Grow little turnips grow!

Central Iowa

08-16-2011, 07:50 AM

Rauk42

08-16-2011, 08:07 AM

Must be nice we havent had a measureable amount of rain up north here for ALONG time! Let it rain Let it rain!

dbltree

08-16-2011, 09:15 AM

I have some grass coming up in my plots is Clethodim the best choice for this?
Seen the brassica plots for the first time last weekend since planting they look not to bad but a little behind where they should be. looks like we got lucky around the 24th (based on trail cam picts) and caught one of the big isolated southern Iowa storms as we had 3" in the rain gauge.With this mornings rain I think they will make it.

Three inches!! :eek:....thats not fair Travis! three tenths is a big event over my way...:rolleyes:

Yep...use 8 ounces of clethodim and 1 quart of crop oil to safely kill grasses in brassicas :way:

Little River Ridge

08-16-2011, 09:26 AM

dbltree

08-16-2011, 11:17 AM

"Be careful what you wish for"... That is what I am hearing with the fact that our farm looks to be getting 3+ inches today. We got our 2.5-3 acres of brassicas in the ground last Thursday. The problem is that over half of the plot has poorly drained soil. Will this rain flood them out or is this rain good for them? There shouldn't be too much standing water but the soil will be VERY wet for awhile. THis is our first food plot on the new farm so we are excited about it but nervous as well.

We had brassicas flooded out last year or at least severely impacted by saturated soils so so it can be a problem. In your case it may be fine if sunshine follows for the next few days.

We got just enough to settle the dust...:(

Central Iowa

08-16-2011, 09:34 PM

Yep...use 8 ounces of clethodim and 1 quart of crop oil to safely kill grasses in brassicas :way:

Thanks Paul!

bearcatbaseball10

08-18-2011, 10:02 PM

Dbltree,

I have a couple of pictures to ask you about. They are our plots as of today Aug. 18th, they have a mixture of 1 lb DER, 1.5 lbs of each PT and Burkrant Turnips, and 2 lbs GHR per acre. I know that there are a few brassicas in there for sure, which I assume are the ground hogs because of their nature in size....but I'm not for sure. Also, there is a bunch of other small plants in the plot, but with not much experience with this mix, I can't tell if the majority of this is pigweed, or if it is infact brassicas. I know that there is 5 brassicas for in this picture, but all the others....weeds or ?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/297433_544944166749_138801477_31179507_7023015_n.j pg

Here is what the plot looks like standing in the middle and looking back to the south....the WHOLE plot looks like this...so part of me is hoping more of it is brassicas than weeds....

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/299258_544944186709_138801477_31179508_6283392_n.j pg

6x6

08-18-2011, 10:34 PM

The small round leafed ones are brassicas, it should be ok as long as it rains.

bearcatbaseball10

08-18-2011, 10:46 PM

The small round leafed ones are brassicas, it should be ok as long as it rains.

we actually have been catching the perfect amount lately...soils are saturated this AM but not holding water...I think they have had something like 3" on the farm this month so far, but all the plots are in well drained ridge tops. I actually need sun shine at this time.....and about a .10 - .25 a week of rain would keep me happy! :way:

Z7ohio32

08-19-2011, 07:17 AM

Since it's too late to plant Brassica, is there anything I could get in the ground within the next couple weeks that the deer could benefit from this fall/winter?

dedgeez

08-19-2011, 07:24 AM

Since it's too late to plant Brassica, is there anything I could get in the ground within the next couple weeks that the deer could benefit from this fall/winter?

You could still get a decent growth on Brassicas depending on where you are, but I would go with Oats this time of year. or an oat chicory mix. You still have lots of time to get oats in the ground.

huntdoc

08-19-2011, 12:47 PM

LoessHillsArcher

08-19-2011, 12:55 PM

I've never had that exact experience but I know there is a lot of clover in our pasture and the deer browse it right along with the cows. We don't see the deer feeding right in with the cows but they don't mind being near them it seems (maybe a few 100yds away)

Z7ohio32

08-19-2011, 12:58 PM

You could still get a decent growth on Brassicas depending on where you are, but I would go with Oats this time of year. or an oat chicory mix. You still have lots of time to get oats in the ground.

Thanks, I'm in central Ohio. Don't think I'll attempt brassicas. But I may consider oats. Would winter wheat be good to plant right now?

letemgrow

08-19-2011, 01:05 PM

I don't have land or resources, but got a nice surprise. My landowner planted over 100 acres and $1500 on seed in groundhog forage radishes for his cattle. He plans to turn his 30 cows in once the leaves hit 12 inches tall. You guys think the deer will be bothered by the cows? Not sure whether they will use this or not??

Cows push deer away IMO, they may feed with them, but they like to have areas where there are not cattle close by.

When my neighbors move the cows from pasture to pasture, its a night and day difference on deer usage. They pile into the clover after the cows are gone. When the cows are there, they move off when they see the cattle.

dbltree

08-19-2011, 01:22 PM

Since it's too late to plant Brassica, is there anything I could get in the ground within the next couple weeks that the deer could benefit from this fall/winter?

Read the cereal grain thread for planting options in the next few weeks...

Cereal Grains and cover crops (http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15879)

This is the perfect fall mix that works very well for me...

I mix the following:

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Use lower rates on poor soils with low deer density and higher rates on soils with good fertility and high deer density. Soil test as if for clover and add P&K and lime according to test...adding nitrogen will promote lush growth of the cereals and radish plants. 100-200 #'s of urea per acre will make a huge difference! 200-400#'s of 6-24-24 (if no soil test) will get the P&K in the ballpark.

Till soil, broadcast fertilizer, lime and large seeds (rye/oats and peas) then till in seeds roughly 1-2" deep, and then cultipack to cover, broadcast clover and radish seed and re-cultipack

Plant fall grains no earlier then the last week of August through mid September (in the Midwest), earlier is better when adding peas and clover

LoessHillsArcher

08-19-2011, 01:59 PM

Cows push deer away IMO, they may feed with them, but they like to have areas where there are not cattle close by.

When my neighbors move the cows from pasture to pasture, its a night and day difference on deer usage. They pile into the clover after the cows are gone. When the cows are there, they move off when they see the cattle.

Ours don't go near the cattle either. They are always in the parts of the pasture the livestock aren't. Dang cows... :rolleyes: Maybe we should just raise deer!:D

letemgrow

08-19-2011, 02:11 PM

Ours don't go near the cattle either. They are always in the parts of the pasture the livestock aren't. Dang cows... :rolleyes: Maybe we should just raise deer!:D

At least if the deer jump the fence, you are not liable for them tearing up the neighbors property. :grin:

antlerfreak

08-19-2011, 04:15 PM

I would think 30 cows would decimate a 100acre plot of turnips in a matter of days.

dbltree

08-21-2011, 11:49 AM

August 21st, 2011

We are fast approaching two solid months without any significant rainfall in my area....most brassica plantings are toast. It happens sometimes and it's a stark reminder to never put all your eggs in one basket! ANY crop can fail and in fact ALL crops can fail due to weather related disasters making it imperative that we do all we can to promote plenty of natural forage and browse on our property. Whitetails have not only survived but thrived for centuries before any crop were ever introduced...on nothing but natural browse, so make sure you focus on improving this element of your habitat first and foremost.

30 miles west there has been enough rainfall to not on;y germinate the brassicas but get them off to a good start

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica1-6.jpg

Example of the rapid growth of Groundhog forage radish over the rape and turnips

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica2-5.jpg

Mike is also struggling with drought up in WI but this semi shaded area is looking great!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Mikesbrassicas.jpg

Brassicas can be an important element in providing year around food sources with on our plots but like corn they can fall prey to flooding or droughts....so don't make them the ONLY element of your program.... ;)

scottonbuck

08-21-2011, 04:44 PM

I went to check on my brassicas today which were planted on July 21 and they are doing great they germinated the last rain we had and the bottom ground is rich in organic matter and held a lot of moisture. I dug down around 1 inch and moisture can be found. I didnt think this was possible in SE Iowa but turns out that plot can be pretty good in drought like conditions. I will take some pics later this week. I did however have to take the weed eater to a few spots were some weeds were taking to the likes of the extra fertilizer. Dang weeds. Hopefully in another week the brassicas will canopy and kill those weeds.

jboswell

08-21-2011, 08:18 PM

Checked on my Brassicas today... the rain we have received in my little piece of SW Iowa have done them well..

Planted on the 15th of July they sat in the dust for a few weeks but with the recent rains they are starting. Have a little button weed and grass problem but at least they are growing!

http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=676&pictureid=7591

http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=676&pictureid=7590

http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=676&pictureid=7589

http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=676&pictureid=7588

dtr

08-22-2011, 08:06 PM

DE2IA

08-22-2011, 08:08 PM

http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/ http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/
I planted a GHR/turnip mix on Aug 1st. Only had one decent rain since then. Otherwise it has been hot and dry like many places in Iowa. I was happy to see that the plot at least germinated. I just hope they are big enough to survive the heat until the next rain comes.

dbltree

08-23-2011, 05:35 PM

How long can the brassica seed lay there waiting on a rain Paul? I planted my turnips, radishes, and rape 2 weeks ago and it still hasn't rained? No germination because I was planting into dust. When you say the plots are toast do you mean the seeds won't germinate or they just won't have time to mature before hunting season?

The seeds are probably viable if they didn't have moisture to germinate them but the time frame has already passed to really have enough time for them to amount to anything.

I would wait til around Labor Day weekend and then re-plant to the rye mix if they haven't germinated by then. The cereal mix will attain a lot more growth in a short period of time assuming we EVER get some rain...:rolleyes:

waylonb19

08-26-2011, 02:29 PM

I broadcasted some brassicas into some thin spots in my soybeans. I am going to top dress some nitro as soon as we get an actual correct rain forecast. How much rain do you guys think is needed to put it into the soil, and how long can it sit on top (without a rain) before it starts evaporating? (I believe denitrification is the correct term)

dbltree

08-26-2011, 07:10 PM

dbltree

08-28-2011, 07:31 AM

August 28th, 2011

Where the brassicas were planted into soils improved by tilling under oats and berseem clover and winter rye and red clover for a number of years...germination and subsequent growth is night and day difference then soils with low organic matter.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5854.jpg

A 60 day drought here in SE Iowa took it's toll, with many brassica plots failing to even germinate and others germinating and then dying, yet these not only germinated but are thriving on the soil moisture held by the high levels of organic matter.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5867.jpg

The lush green color tells us they are healthy and have plenty of nitrogen from both decomposing clovers and applied urea.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5869.jpg

Combined with standing grain soybeans this will be an outstanding plot November thru January

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5864.jpg

The soybeans and any thin areas in the brassicas will be overseeded with winter rye at 50-150#'s per acre in early September to round out the plot and provide food sources until clovers green up in the spring. Note the lack of weeds thanks to the allelopathic chemicals in the winter rye and smothering effects of the red clover tilled under to plant these brassicas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5863.jpg

Purple Top Turnips

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5857.jpg

Dwarf Essex Rape

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5855.jpg

Groundhog forage radish

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5856.jpg

The mix was sown at the following rates

3#'s PTT
2#'s DER
5#'s of GHFR

The rate seems high because normal seeding rates for brassicas are 5#'s per acre....but here why it work so well!

Deer begin to hammer the GHFR...they love this stuff like nothing I have ever planted and only sugar beets can compete on most farms. Sugar beets however are high maintenance like corn and require herbicides to keep weeds at bay over the long growing season.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5858.jpg

GHFR is simple and easy to plant spring or summer and deer will "thin" them out while ignoring the rest of the brassicas...for now.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5859.jpg

It's difficult to find a plant that has not been grazed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5871.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5876.jpg

Some are literally destroyed already!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5877.jpg

You know GHFR is highly attractive when deer stop feeding on lush healthy soybeans and focus on the radish plants!

I had put up a Bushnell 2011 Trophy cam in this plot and it's interesting to watch the deer switch!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/Z2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/Z3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/Z4.jpg

It's hard to beat adding groundhog forage radish to your summer brassicas plots or your fall winter rye plots, they are candy that will draw deer away from other food sources and neighboring crops. They can also be used in the spring to draw deer away from young soybeans and corn and have become an indispensable too in my habitat program.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/Z5.jpg

Everyone everywhere experiences severe drought from time to time so be sure to use a rotation that allows you to till under tons of biomass each year to build organic matter and lower fertilizer costs. A 3 way rotation of white clover, brassicas and winter rye/oats/peas/radish and red clover planted in strips or blocks within each field or plot will allow you to rotate crops to both control pests and disease problems but also utilize the strengths of each crop all simultaneously to attract and hold whitetails year around.

Start including GHFR with your summer and fall plantings as an irresistible food source for whitetails and if they are not eaten...also a great soil builder, nitrogen scavenger and soil pulverizer to break up hard pan soils....;)

Boz

08-31-2011, 02:37 PM

3# PTT, 2# DER, 5# GFR, 100# N, 100# 8-24-24 planted in central Iowa on 7/25.

dbltree

08-31-2011, 04:21 PM

Looking good Boz! :way:

bearcatbaseball10

08-31-2011, 08:27 PM

Dbltree,

do you have a potenant mix to get rid of a invasion of pig weed but keep out brassicas strong and growing? They seem to be choking out the brassicas a little bit.

Thanks!

tommyls1313

09-01-2011, 12:16 PM

Dbltree I planted my brassica Purpletop/GHFR/Rape mix on August 6th but unfortunately like you and others I didn't get a rain on my plot till Tuesday. Nothing had germinated when I was out on the 27th. My questions is now with Tuesdays rain granted they germinate and come up now will they have enough time to mature enough to feed the deer this winter? I planted Winter Rye/Winter Peas/White Clover in the same field on August 20th so I've got a backup food source like you suggest but sure hoping to have some brassicas as well

Thanks

vman

09-01-2011, 02:23 PM

It all depends on the first frost. My best turnips I have ever had were planted on September 1st.

dbltree

09-01-2011, 05:13 PM

Dbltree,

do you have a potent mix to get rid of a invasion of pig weed but keep out brassicas strong and growing? They seem to be choking out the brassicas a little bit.

Thanks!

I hate pigweed! Nasty stuff and very hard to control especially in other broadleaf crops. Stinger is safe on brassicas but I don't think it will kill pigweed...you may have to clip the tops off the pigweed to get by for this year. This is why I use the winter rye/brassica rotation because it helps to control small seeded broadleaf weeds.

Dbltree I planted my brassica Purpletop/GHFR/Rape mix on August 6th but unfortunately like you and others I didn't get a rain on my plot till Tuesday. Nothing had germinated when I was out on the 27th. My questions is now with Tuesdays rain granted they germinate and come up now will they have enough time to mature enough to feed the deer this winter? I planted Winter Rye/Winter Peas/White Clover in the same field on August 20th so I've got a backup food source like you suggest but sure hoping to have some brassicas as well

I'm curious about this myself...some fields had zero germ so i tilled then under and planted the rye mix but some had partial germination so I'm just watching to see if anymore come up?

This late in the season all the stars have to be aligned just right to still get a decent crop but as Jason notes, it is possible. Keep us posted on what happens with yours? Brassicas will germinate in as little as 3 days so if nothing is up in a week...I would replant with rye. ;)

KSQ2

09-02-2011, 02:06 PM

Dbltree, our brassicas will have been in the ground for three weeks this-coming Tuesday. At this point it looks like there has been very little germinization. I haven't given up hope yet, and we do have the possibility of some rain this weekend. Here's my question: we're planning on planting rye and clover on the 15th. If we haven't had rain by then I was planning on working the brassica plot and seeding it to rye. If a lot of the brassica hasn't yet germinated, could I run a harrow instead of a disk, to rough the ground up enough to get the rye covered when I pack it? Would the brassica seed be buried too deep to even bother with it? Or should I go with the original plan of disking? (I would think the rye would get better soil contact by disking...) We planted turnips, ghfr, and der...

dbltree

09-02-2011, 04:30 PM

dtr

09-02-2011, 07:59 PM

Between the drought and deer damage, my corn food plots were completely worthless. I mowed half of them today and tilled them under. Then I pretended that is was August 2nd (instead of Sept 2nd) and planted turnips, radishes, and rape. This is an experiment. I tilled in 200# of urea and am hoping that we get rain tomorrow and that everything germinates. It will be interesting to see what I end up with. Even if I get golf or tennis ball sized turnips, that's better than 10 bushel corn! Everything else will go into cereal grains.

I also noticed today that the rain 2 days ago finally germinated the brassicas i planted 4 weeks ago. It will be interesting to see what these brassicas end up producing. Paul, would it benefit the brassicas to spread more fertilizer in a month or so after they germinate? I did this last year and it seemed like it helped.

dbltree

09-03-2011, 06:45 AM

would it benefit the brassicas to spread more fertilizer in a month or so after they germinate? I did this last year and it seemed like it helped.

Sure...just ahead of a good rain broadcast 50-100#'s of urea to give them a "shot int the arm"...:way:

Mike sent some progress pics of his brassicas from up in WI

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/MikeBrassica1.jpg

Farmer cut and chopped the alfalfa and then Mike tilled it up and planted

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/MikeBrassica2.jpg

It's been very dry up Mikes way to so the alfalfa coming back isn't helpful but it looks like they are doing alright!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Mikebrassica3.jpg

These are fodder beet update pics at 50 days with supplemental watering

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Fodderbeet55days.jpg

letemgrow

09-03-2011, 09:08 AM

Tried a little experiment on some groundhog forage radishes:
Here is a pic of the finished product, area was tilled, fluffy soils left, and the radishes were broadcast and that was it. Had a 3 inch rain come in 1-2 days after that and I would call this stand a success without any cultipacking needed.
http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k445/pes1979/Habitat%20Improvements%20on%20the%20farm/Radishes.jpg

bryan

09-03-2011, 02:37 PM

Sure wish my mix looked half as good as those picks.... I feel like i wasted $75... A learning experience....

letemgrow

09-03-2011, 03:27 PM

Sure wish my mix looked half as good as those picks.... I feel like i wasted $75... A learning experience....

Mind sharing the details? It only helps others learn :way:

bryan

09-07-2011, 08:35 PM

I planted the mixture of turnips, brassicas, and forage radishes in a one acre spot in a field edge that wasn't planted in corn because it was a little to wet at the time. It was worked up earlier in the year when the corn was planted so i figured i could just broadcast the seeds and let the rain sink them into the ground a little bit. But i guess that didn't work. The only spots that are coming up are where there are some deer track or some tractor ruts going through the plot. I am thinking that because it was worked up when it was a little to wet and we got a pretty heavy rain after it was worked up that the ground harden up to much to let the seeds grow... Hoping it goes better with the radishes i plan on broadcasting between my soybeans in a couple weeks!!!

dbltree

09-08-2011, 05:33 AM

September 8, 2011

Some pics of brassica growth on different soils on one large farm, all planted the same way, same seed, same fertilizer etc. just to show the importance of soil building while attracting whitetails at the same time.

This field was pasture for years so it's a work in progress as we begin the rye/clover and brassica rotation...soils no bad but PH was very low (lime added) and OM is mediocre.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5967.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5968.jpg

Field 2 has different soils within the same plot, with some of it being quite sandy along a drainage, the better soils have outstanding crops!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5970.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5971.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5972.jpg

Thanks to plenty of nitrogen and OM that holds moisture the brassicas have a rich deep green color indicating very healthy crops!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5973.jpg

In the sandy areas however both brassicas and Egyptian Wheat have suffered from lack of rain...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5974.jpg

Note the stunted, discolored plants which are not lacking for any elemental nutrients...just water!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5975.jpg

Field 3 has naturally good OM and the brassicas look outstanding despite only minimal rains

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5980.jpg

Very healthy and inches above the first field in height!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5982.jpg

Every soil in every field across the country can be improved and frustrating and disappointing crop failures can be reduced by rotating rye and clover with brassicas (followed by oats and berseem) on a continual rotation to build up soils, as well as provide year around food sources for whitetails that are irresistible.

These are just more evidence that this very common basic mix of Purple Top Turnips, Dwarf Essex Rape and Groundhog Forage Radish will be sought after by whitetails long before a frost in most situations!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5985.jpg

In this case primarily the rape and radish plants are being grazed...and within feet of a giant corn field and yards of an even larger soybean field...oh....did I mention the lush alfalfa field around the corner??

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_5987.jpg

The difference is that this field is hidden and deer feel safe there...create a safe, well screened feeding area and keep year around food sources growing there and deer will feed there...often regardless of what you offer them... ;)

dbltree

09-11-2011, 08:00 AM

September 11th, 2011

Here in my area of SE Iowa we experienced a 2 month drought with no appreciable rainfall between June 28th and August 30th. During tough times like that we see the huge difference in soils with great organic matter and those that do not...one farm on which I took over management of the habitat this year is comprised of the latter and not a single brassica germinated in any of the planted fields. In late August I disced them up and re-planted the brassica 1/2 of each field along with the rye mix 1/2 of each field...ALL to the cereal combination...having little other choices.

My son and I got rained out of this field as we were cultipacking it....the original brassica planting (now rye) on the left and the new rye planting on the right....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6072.jpg

I was surprised to see however that the brassica seed that had laid there for 2 months and then been disced under with a 16' disc...all came up with nearly 2" of rain!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6074.jpg

I am often asked how long the seed can lay there and will it come up eventually and in some cases I have had the seed come up the following spring....all it needs is rain! I'm also asked however about planting rape and turnips with fall cereals or in early September alone and this will be a good example of why we plant brassicas in July versus September!

These are brassicas planted in mid July on soils where we have been building OM by tilling under rye and red clover...they also did not receive a drop of rain from June 28th to August 30th....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6038.jpg

That growth is not only a testament to wise soil building through use of good cover crops such as rye and clover but also shows the dramatic difference in yield between mid summer and fall planted brassicas. While some feed can be attained by the late planted brassicas they will never produce anywhere near what the summer planted can achieve.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6029.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6030.jpg

These July planted brassicas will produce several tons of forage and root food sources that will carry deer well into mid winter

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6031.jpg

They are lush and healthy despite little rain thanks to soils rich in organic matter and 200#'s of urea!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6032.jpg

The Purple Top turnips are rapidly developing

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6033.jpg

as are the radish roots

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6034.jpg

Some of you may have read the article in The Furrow about farmers planting thousands of acres of radish and other brassicas into their corn/soybean crop fields as a cover crop to help hold P (phosphorous) along with top soil itself. In addition the deep tap roots mine P from sub soils and leave it on the surface for the next crop...perfect for us as a cover crop and a food source for whitetails!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6035.jpg

here we are rotating soybeans and brassicas...the soys are overseeded with rye and red clover and the brassicas will be planted to soybeans next year...perfect combination of soil building crops and unbeatable food sources to hold whitetails year around!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6039.jpg

The soybeans will be an outstanding draw this winter but as they yellow and become unattractive to deer, the brassicas provide a ready source of forage to keep deer fat and happy without missing a single day of providing food within this plot.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/z10.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/z11.jpg

They are still focusing on the Groundhog forage radish...allowing the rape and turnips to continue to grow...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6026.jpg

Please share your own experiences with brassicas this fall, when they were planted and how they are being utilized by deer as fall progresses into winter... ;)

rcb708

09-11-2011, 11:10 AM

dbltree

09-11-2011, 01:44 PM

Spoke to the farmer today who let me broadcast some Winter rye & Turnips into standing corn, he got pretty nervous when i informed him of the turnips being broadcast! He said that worries him and wish I hadnt planted them. He said they will grow wild and may be trouble for him in the years to come??? Is this true?

I've been planting brassicas for years and never had any problem with them growing "wild"...he'll rotate to soybeans and nuke them all with glyphosate anyway...end of story.

If I were you I would go in and kill the rye and turnips in early April with gly yourself so he doesn't have any worries but the only time I have seen people have some brassicas return is when the area is left fallow AND they went to seed the previous summer...not likely to happen in his crop fields...

rcb708

09-11-2011, 02:31 PM

Thanks Paul that gives me peace of mind didn't figure they would grow wild but wasn't sure! Don't wanna ruin a good thing with the owner!

dbltree

09-16-2011, 09:58 AM

Brassica Disease

I haven't had too much problem with brassica diseases or pests other then in drowning situations in water logged soils but it can be a real problem which is why it's important to rotate crops. A friend sent me pictures of his diseases brassicas that at one point appeared healthy and thriving, I can't see where he has done anything wrong and I'm not sure exactly what the problem is but I suspect some heavy rains earlier may have spawned a disease problem.

At one point they looked fantastic

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica%20disease/B5.jpg

but then went down hill in a hurry

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica%20disease/B1.jpg

he said they smell rotten which tells me they are dying

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica%20disease/B4.jpg

no question pests/bugs are taking their toll on the stressed plants but they are not the cause of the dying plants

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica%20disease/B2.jpg

Poorly drained soils are more apt to have problems if there are periods in which the soil remains waterlogged for several weeks. Perhaps this was the case here but we really don't know for certain...but the owner is going to till them under and re-plant to winter rye.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassica%20disease/B3.jpg

Here's a good link to more on brassica diseases and pests that may provide clues for those wondering about their own brassicas

Diseases of Canola (http://www.canola-council.org/chapter10c.aspx)

Canola Diseases (http://www.new.dpi.vic.gov.au/agriculture/pests-diseases-and-weeds/plant-diseases/grains-cereals/canola-diseases)

Brassica diseases (http://www.agriseeds.co.nz/brassica-diseases.htm)

While crop rotation is not the problem here, the lack of it is most often the problem when disease and pests strike our crops, so it's a simple matter to correct by dividing your plots into strips or blocks and rotating multiple crops within that plot every year. Not on;y does doing so help avoid disease problems but also helps insure that if one crop fails, another is there to pick up the slack and continue to attract deer...year around...;)

BBD Big Buck Down

09-18-2011, 06:13 PM

dbltree

09-18-2011, 08:40 PM

Sligh1

09-18-2011, 09:26 PM

Our purple turnips were comin in good and really starting to grow. They are a little under knee high and just starting to get an actual little turnip to grow but this week i checked them and the deer absolutely destroyed the field and mowed it down to stems and a few leaves still. Will the plants even produce a turnip with most of the leaf gone and the way the temperatures are starting drop?

That sucks! For others info, can you say how many acres you planted, how did you fertilize and seed population, etc? Was it simply a case of not enough food around or too small a plot? Sucks but it's a learning experience and you can go add some winter rye and possibly radishes to it NOW. Good luck

BBD Big Buck Down

09-18-2011, 09:54 PM

That sucks! For others info, can you say how many acres you planted, how did you fertilize and seed population, etc? Was it simply a case of not enough food around or too small a plot? Sucks but it's a learning experience and you can go add some winter rye and possibly radishes to it NOW. Good luck

We planted just over an acre of Turnips, Acre of oats, and another acre of clover all seperate but touching each other. We thought we'd try the turnips to see if deer liked them right away or if it was gonna take them awhile to get use too but clearly we needed more! They mowed down the turnips and oats but havent touched the clover much. Before planting we spread lime about a month before and then put fertilizer right before we planted. Everything got off to a great start and was looking good. Just last week i checked the plot and turnips had barely been touched then this week they were just gone! Will def be planting more next year! :way:

BBD Big Buck Down

09-18-2011, 09:58 PM

Sucks but it's a learning experience and you can go add some winter rye and possibly radishes to it NOW. Good luck

I hadnt even thought about putting in some winter rye. Could i just broadcast it over the turnips before a rain and have that work? or will i have to till it up again

dbltree

09-19-2011, 04:14 AM

I hadnt even thought about putting in some winter rye. Could i just broadcast it over the turnips before a rain and have that work? or will i have to till it up again

You can just overseed the rye ahead of a good rain but it's getting a little late so tilling and planting would insure faster germination and growth.

I bet they are eating your clover...without a cam right on the clover it's really difficult to tell because clover grows very fast and will often show little evidence of grazing....;)

Boz

09-19-2011, 09:19 AM

Our purple turnips were comin in good and really starting to grow. They are a little under knee high and just starting to get an actual little turnip to grow but this week i checked them and the deer absolutely destroyed the field and mowed it down to stems and a few leaves still. Will the plants even produce a turnip with most of the leaf gone and the way the temperatures are starting drop?

That sucks, I've been there and had a food plot that was looking great (corn/beans) get completely wiped out by the neighbors cattle that found a hole in the fence. Learned a valuable lesson the hard way about checking and fixing the neighbors fence before putting in food plots.

dbltree

09-22-2011, 05:30 AM

The following pics were shared on Outreach Outdoors and I am re-posting with permission.

Great forage radish growth!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_4355.jpg

Note the deer are hammering the radishes!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_4351.jpg

Obviously the deer are pleased!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/IMAG0454.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/IMAG0170.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/IMAG0320.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/IMAG0392.jpg

If you got sufficient rainfall to get your brassicas up and growing this summer, please share the results this fall. Get an exclusion cage up and a trail cam if you can....you never know what might be enjoying the fruits of your labors under cover of...darkness....;)

scottonbuck

09-22-2011, 02:29 PM

I need to get out and take some good pics of my Brassicas they are doing awesome to say the least. We hunted last night out of a blind on the plot and they were knee high, waist high if your a midget. The deer have been hammering them also, we waited for the perfect wind and went in and had success. My 7 year old son killed his first deer a big doe off the Brassicas. To say I was pleased would be an understatement. It made all the hard work seem worth it just to see the deer pour into the field and to have my son harvest one was a bonus. I will get pics soon.

Butch973

09-24-2011, 07:04 PM

Sligh1

09-24-2011, 07:18 PM

This was my first year planting turnips. I got them in the ground around the first week of august here in west centratl iowa. Planted and fertilized as discussed on here and also gave them a shot of nitrogen right before a big rain a few weeks back. Everything looks great and the plants are over knee high in spots but my problem is that the actual turnip and radish growth is not much at all. Am I missing something?
PERFECT! Can't think of anything?!?! If they look great and bulbs are coming along nice and they are weed free- you're good to go!
*Oh, I just realized you said your bulb development was not great.... when you check it last? how big we talking??? pencil, golf ball, baseball, etc?? I would not be that concerned BUT give a few more specific details.

Butch973

09-24-2011, 09:40 PM

Sligh1

09-25-2011, 09:17 AM

Hmmm, maybe Dbltree has some more thoughts BUT.... That is a little odd if those tops are so big. BUT... At this point there isn't a lot you can do... You can add some more N before a rain. We'll hopefully get some more growing time going on and I'll bet in 3-4 more weeks those bulbs develop a lot more.

dbltree

09-25-2011, 11:37 AM

Pulled a few tonight and the best I saw was the radishes and they were maybe 4 inches. Looked like small carrots. Is this normal to have the tops grow out first and then the bulbs develop? I just can't figure out why the tops are so big and there isn't much underneath. Luckily there isn't a frost predicted in the near future so hopefully all the growth will go towards the bulbs in the next few weeks. I never did get a lime test so I'm thinking that must be the problem but like I said the tops are doing great so that's what has me baffled.

I think there is in fact nothing wrong at all but rather the time is not right because you planted several weeks later. Corn grows tall first and then develops ears and it is much the same with brassicas, with root growth coming after the plant has reached near maximum height.

Check yours in the next few weeks and take some pictures if you can...;)

September 25th, 2011

Update on brassicas planted in mid July and have received only one significant rainfall on August 30th...

Healthy soils high in organic matter and P/K, PH levels corrected and 200#'s of urea make for a healthy robust crop even under very difficult conditions!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6121.jpg

The Groundhog forge radish is still getting hammered hard

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6116.jpg

and now they are hitting the roots as well

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6117.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6118.jpg

Growth is reasonable considering the drought and heavy grazing

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6119.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6123.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6124.jpg

The Purple Top turnips are also getting huge!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6120.jpg

This is the main source of winter feed and is a huge draw during our December thru January seasons

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6122.jpg

All in all they look healthier this year under dry conditions then last year under extremely wet conditions

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6134.jpg

Combined with soybeans overseed with winter rye and areas of white clover within the same centralized feeding area, this farm has outstanding food sources despite the wet spring and dry summer and I am certain the landowner will have a successful season....;)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6130.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/za1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/za2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/za5.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/za9.jpg

Butch973

09-25-2011, 12:40 PM

Thanks guys I really appreciate your help. I will definately keep an eye on them. Hopefully I'll have a tractor next year so I can get them planted on time.

risto2351

09-29-2011, 10:00 PM

To say it was a tough year planting food plots is an understatement.
I planted the lower half of this plot the 23rd of July. With no rain for four weeks. I planted turnips, GFR, and DER.
I thought it was never going to grow.
Well it did finally grow. A few bare spots but it will do.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC09925.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC09931.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC09926.jpg
In the bare spots I seeded with rye and clover. Some of the rye I
seeded last year beat me to it.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC09930.jpg

Nice looking turnips.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC09932.jpg

With so much to eat it will be interesting to see when they start eating them.

dbltree

09-30-2011, 06:18 AM

No lack of food at your farm Tony! :way:

dbltree

10-07-2011, 06:31 AM

October 7th, 2011

All of our brassica plantings here in SE Iowa were planted using the same seed, fertilizer and lime (some pel lime some ag lime) but of course not all the soils were identical and while primarily heavy clay type soils, organic matter varied widely.

The seed and fertilizer used was comprised of the following....

3#'s Purple Top Turnips
2#'s Dwarf Essex Rape
5#'s Groundhog Forage Radish

400#'s 6-28-28 (to provide P&K)
200#'s 46-0-0 urea (to provide 92#'s of nitrogen)
400#'s of pellet lime (except on fields that had 3 ton of ag lime applied earlier)

Fields were strip planted so that roughly 1/2 was in brassicas and 1/2 in the winter rye/oats/forage peas/forage radish and red clover combination to allow the brassicas and rye to be rotated yearly. Most plots are adjacent to ag crops and either small areas of white clover or alfalfa fields and all fields endured some level of drought this summer and fall

This is what a typical plot looks like on most of the farms I work with...rye, brassicas and ag crops either within the plot or right across the fence. This type of situation allows us to feed deer year around as well as rotate crops and build up soil quality.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6194.jpg

Despite little rain most of the brassicas that germinated have done very well

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6195.jpg

The exception being where soils were very light and therefore exceptionally dry which then lead to stunted, poor performing brassicas

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6191.jpg

With small roots although obviously still being grazed!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6192.jpg

In one area I purposely added more seed to simulate overseeding (a common problem for plotters) and we can see how this has a negative effect on growth of both roots and foliage

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6196.jpg

This is in low rich soil or these plants probably would have succumbed to the drought but note the small size of the crowded plants!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6197.jpg

In ALL cases...regardless of the farm or plots on the farm....deer are grazing the brassica tops

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6200.jpg

and even starting to pull up a few turnip and radish roots

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6199.jpg

Because deer focused on the GHFR first the turnip roots had time to develop before seer started grazing the tops

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6198.jpg

Now the rye combination is coming on strong and deer are starting to focus on the succulent cereals and peas, giving the brassicas a break so that they will be there during the late season. I had the pleasure of joining my friend Rich Baugh for supper last week and we spent the time before dinner peering through his spotting scope to watch deer coming into a food plot some 500-600 yards away. The deer walked from the timber into the brassicas and literally ripped entire brassica plants from the ground and stood contentedly munching on the tops but eventually worked their way to the rye combination and grazed there as well.

Without the rye in the same plot, deer would soon destroy the brassicas which would then leave Rich disappointed this fall and it wouldn't have taken long since germination was poor thanks to the severe drought this summer. Don't count on any one food source, plant multiple crops in each field to allow for rotation and soil building not to mention "crop insurance" in case one fails.... ;)

dbltree

10-13-2011, 05:43 AM

A friend posted this video of deer happily munching on his brassicas on Outreach Outdoors....

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn169/deerdown_photos/Bucks%202011/th_IMAG0011-1.jpg (http://s304.photobucket.com/albums/nn169/deerdown_photos/Bucks%202011/?action=view&current=IMAG0011-1.mp4)

Updated pic on fodder beets...grown in pretty compacted soils so not bad considering

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Fodderbeet.jpg

Tops look outstanding!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Beet2.jpg

So far I have not had any reports of deer waiting until the brassicas freeze before feeding on them this year but no doubt some landowners who planted them for the first time may find deer hesitate if they have plenty of other food sources. Once they figure it out however....you may not have enough ground to keep them fed the next year.... ;)

crs740

10-13-2011, 07:23 AM

I think I'm the boat where the deer don't know what to do. Hopefully, once we get a nice cold snap (come on colder weather) the deer will wake up to the new food source. At least they have plenty of clover, chicory, standing corn and beans, winter rye, oats and apples to keep them busy.

WIwhitetail

10-13-2011, 12:56 PM

Seems like the deer have transitioned to acorns and corn fields in my area... giving the brassicas a break. Can't wait for freezing temps to heat things up

dbltree

10-17-2011, 06:27 AM

October 17th, 2011

Couple contrasting examples of food plot usage on two different feeding areas on one large farm....

One is split in half using Egyptian Wheat screens and runs along an area of great cover, timber on one side and switchgrass on the other.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6353.jpg

Roughly 3 acres total...made up of 1/2 brassicas and 1/2 the winter rye/oats/peas/radish and clover mix

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6355.jpg

Plenty of grazing but certainly not extreme yet

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6354.jpg

The brassicas are lush and healthy although perhaps a little on the thick side

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6358.jpg

The rye mix is also doing very well and grazing is obvious

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6356.jpg

Cams reveal plenty of active use

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/zc2.jpg

and deer in the plots feeding on both brassicas an rye on a daily basis but at this point it appears there will be plenty of feed to attract and hold deer on into winter.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/zc5.jpg

In stark contrast however...a same size feeding area (on the same farm) surrounded by a very large area of timber is being decimated!

It to is screened by EW

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6349.jpg

neighboring soybean fields are literally wiped out...eaten to the dirt!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6350.jpg

The brassicas here are being ravaged!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6340.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6346.jpg

Every plant heavily grazed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6341.jpg

Root development was good

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6343.jpg

but they are eating both turnip....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6344.jpg

and radish roots already!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6342.jpg

The rye here was slow to germinate due to the drought and low organic matter in this field and now they are grazing it off as fast as it comes up!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6347.jpg

The cam here is located on a funnel only yards from the entrance to the field and was filled with over 5000+ pics in less then a week! :shock:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6345.jpg

Each landowner will encounter different situations, possibly even on the same farm depending on the availability of other crops or food sources, deer density, bedding cover etc. While keeping deer numbers in check is important, it's not always possible where neighboring landowners may not hunt nor allow hunting and this is another reason to utilize a good hardy white clover such as Alice, Durana, Kopu II and others to take some of the runt of the grazing. In these cases we are in the process of that right now having planted both white and red clovers with the rye planting.

Good white clovers will take a beating and still keep producing (warning...many clovers such as those used by many big name companies can NOT withstand heavy grazing and will be eaten to the dirt) and deer will dig through the snow for it even thru the winter.

A common mistake I see is landowners planting the whole field or farm to brassicas...then they have no means of rotating crops, no back up by means of another crop such as clover, no all winter food source such as rye and are disappointed when the brassicas get wiped out before the rut.

Establish multiple crops in every plot and make sure white clover is at least a portion of your habitat plan...not in a separate field but within the same plot. Screen your plots, plant crops that are easy to rotate in strips or blocks as you see in the pictures above and doing so will help attract and hold whitetails year around, adapting them to feeding there rather then the neighbors. It will also help improve your soils and done correctly withstand heavy grazing associated with high deer densities..... ;)

Boz

10-17-2011, 11:15 AM

I have a foxtail problem in my brassicas, wasn't there over Labor day, now plots are full of it. I don't think that its worth worrying about now, but is clethodim the solution if the same thing happens next year to my GFR/DER/PT mix? Looks like it is okay to use on "rape greens and turnip greens". I amazes me how much foxtail grew in that amount of time with less than .5" of rain, while the brassicas suffered and didn't grow.

Central Iowa

10-17-2011, 12:27 PM

Yes Boz it works well. 8 oz. clethodim and 1 quart crop oil to the acre.

Central Iowa

10-17-2011, 12:33 PM

My forage radishes are being heavily grazed. Purple top show.some use tops and roots and the DER shows little browsing.

dbltree

10-23-2011, 11:52 AM

My forage radishes are being heavily grazed. Same here Travis...thanks for the update from your place...:way:

October 23rd, 2011

The Purple Top turnips have gotten huge! :eek:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/PTT1.jpg

Incredible amount of great late fall and winter feed!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/PTT2.jpg

The Groundhog forage radish roots have also done well

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/GHFR1.jpg

Despite being heavily grazed and very little rain!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/GHFR2.jpg

and on every farm...the Purple Top turnip, Dwarf Essex rape and Groundhog forage radish mix is being heavily grazed.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/B1-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/B2-1.jpg

Despite standing soybeans, freshly combined corn and lush alfalfa fields...this simple and economical brassica mix is a huge attraction!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/b3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/B4.jpg

Even my little garden sized test plots where deer originally refused to eat them...have become very popular!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/B1-2.jpg

No expensive "buck on a bag" seed is required and this mix is readily available from local co-op's of places like Welter Seed (http://www.welterseed.com/productItems.aspx?id=3&org=0)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/B2-2.jpg

That doesn't mean you should plant the farm to brassicas either...because they must be rotated

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/B3-1.jpg

So incorporate a mix of crops in one central feeding area that includes strips of white clover, strips of brassicas, strips of rye and peas and where possible strips of soybeans and rotate them yearly.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/Typical10.jpg

Brassicas are a great draw and easy to grow but like soybeans can also be wiped out...all the more reason to have winter rye as part of your program. My 2011 Archery Buck (http://www.outreachoutdoors.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=1144&start=260) was returning from a night of foraging in my field of winter rye/oats/peas/radish and clover...so no one crop is ever the answer to success... ;)

crs740

10-24-2011, 12:45 PM

Congrats on the great buck Paul! I am looking forward to watching the deer on my 160 grow as I implement some of your practices. I was able to harvest a 4.5 yr old 8 point on some other property I hunt. I have watched him over the last two years and finally was able to connect.

dbltree

10-27-2011, 11:03 PM

Kale

Kale is a long season brassica, typically planted in the spring and requiring 120 day growing period for maximum growth but even planted in July it can produce some great forage! I planted some in the garden in some test plots and it has done pretty well...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6523.jpg

It looks much like rape or canola only with a much larger stem and overall plant height

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6524.jpg

Apparently deer don't like it as well as forage radish how ever because they have demolished the forage radish only 2 feet away!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6522.jpg

Most Daikon forage radish seed is grown in New Zealand and shipped to the U.S. as VNS (variety not stated) seed and then sold under trademarked names that include Groundhog, Tillage and Trophy to name a few but as a consumer you should be aware that it is all the same and the only different is the name...and the price! Forage radish seed should run $2.50-3.25 a pound so purchase it wherever you can buy it at a reasonable price regardless of what "name" is on the bag.

In this case I planted all three knowing it is all the same and as you can see...deer ate it all with no preference for one then another... ;)

Forage Radish seed source (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=418)

dbltree

10-28-2011, 05:35 PM

Mike's farmer friend has apparently been watching Mike grow brassicas for a few years now and decided he might like to try some. So he applied liquid manure to 2 1/2 acres of alfalfa hay ground and planted the following mix...

1-1/2 # per acre Dwarf Essex Rape
1# per acre of Purple Top Turnips
3-1/2 # per acre of Ground Hog Forage Radish
1# per acre of Winifred rape
1# per acre of Rangi rape

and here is the results despite having a very dry summer in their area of WI

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Mikebrassicamix.jpg

The farmer commented that maybe he ought to grow some for the cows next year because of the amazing tonnage produced.... :way:

dbltree

11-03-2011, 12:54 PM

November 3rd, 2011

There are pics of brassicas that were planted in July but didn't germinate until late August when I disced them under to re-plant the rye mix. While it seems like they did fairly well...(and they did all things considering)...this is not the way to plant them! Plant brassicas in July to get optimum yields of both forage and roots...note here that while we gained some brassica forage...it has nearly suffocated the rye, oats, peas and made it impossible to establish clover!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Turnip3.jpg

Root growth is small at best

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Turnip1.jpg

certainly not comparable too

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Turnip2.jpg

the mammoth turnips planted in July!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/PTT2.jpg

A smattering of GHFR planted with rye works well but plant the other brassicas alone in July and the cereals, peas and clovers in the fall for best results. This also allows us to rotate crops to keep pests and disease at bay and avoid having problems by continually planting the same crops back to back....;)

dbltree

11-04-2011, 07:39 PM

AJ sent in this pic of a whopper turnip!! :way:

26.75 x 5.6lbs = 149.8

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/AJTurnip.jpg

dbltree

11-09-2011, 06:16 AM

November 9th, 2011

It is amazing how long and how much the turnip and radish roots will continue to grow in the fall, despite have killing freezes down to 25 degrees several times thus far.

The old reliable Purple Top turnips are huge!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/b2-1.jpg

The roots provide a tremendous amount of late fall and winter feed to help hold whitetails on your property and the tops of course are readily eaten all fall.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/b1-1.jpg

I'm not sure if they will top Andy's 5.65# PTT !

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/AJTurnip.jpg

The Groundhog Radish have "protected" the PTT's so to speak because deer have focused on the GHFR tops since August....note they have eaten the foliage right to the root...yet the root has continued to grow!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/b3-1.jpg

The forage radish roots of plants planted in July will help loosen compacted soils since they have a long time to grow and send roots down several feet.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/b4-1.jpg

Adding GHFR to your brassica plantings is a win win because deer love the tops and will eat the roots to the dirt as the weather turns colder and along with that, they break up hard pans soils, scavenge nitrogen and pull up potassium

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/b5.jpg

From this link: Cover Crop USA (http://covercropsusa.com/5420/5320.html)

picture was taken in Avis, PA with Mark Lingle holding a 21" GroundHog Radish. Field was seeded after a field bean crop. Radishes were sown at 5#/acre along with Hairy Vetch.

http://covercropsusa.com/mediac/450_0/media/ac0ec12ab57459f3ffff8c4affffe906.jpg

picture was taken in the spring and is the hole left by where a GroundHog Radish had been. GHFR decompose quickly in late winter and water flows into the channels, freezing and thawing pulverizes hard pan soils.

http://covercropsusa.com/mediac/450_0/media/e0c7a54c3fb30ba4ffff9c37ffffe904.jpg

Tom shared this 15" GHFR grown in WI...note the tap roots grow far beyond the main root and that allows them to mine sub soil nutrients that will then be available for the next crop.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/15inchradish.jpg

Brassicas (turnips, rape, forage radish, kale and swedes) are an important tool in our habitat program but remember not to make them the ONLY tool....they can NOT provide year around food sources and they MUST be rotated with other crops. So include them as a part of your food sources within one centrally located feeding area (for every 80-120 acres) and plant them in strips or blocks that can be rotated with other crops.

Here we have strips of brassicas, soybeans (overseeded with winter rye and red clover) and white clover and the combination of ALL of those crops will keep deer coming to that single source feeding area every single day of the year. That allows us to adapt deer to coming there and draw large mature whitetails from surrounding farms who do NOT provide feed year around...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/b6.jpg

The most productive brassicas are not those found in hunting magazines but rather from local co-ops and sources such as this:

Brassica seed source (http://www.welterseed.com/productItems.aspx?id=3&org=0)

If you have some brassica roots to show off , please post them in this thread or send me a pic and I will post for you... ;)

dbltree2000@yahoo.com

letemgrow

11-09-2011, 07:37 AM

If you have some brassica roots to show off , please post them in this thread or send me a pic and I will post for you... ;)

Wish I had some to show off, but the deer have ate the ground hog forage radishes to the dirt!!! Maybe that is a better photo anyways tho huh?? :way:

dbltree

11-14-2011, 06:08 PM

Wish I had some to show off, but the deer have ate the ground hog forage radishes to the dirt!!! Maybe that is a better photo anyways tho huh?? :way:

I believe it is Phil! :way:

November 14th, 2011

I've lost count of the number of "hard freezes" we have had where temps dropped down into the mid to upper 20's and freeze water solid by morning...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/B1-2.jpg

Yet the brassicas appear unscathed including this mix of kale, turnips and forage radish

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/B3-2.jpg

it takes an awful lot of severe cold weather to phase most brassicas which makes them great late fall and early winter food sources

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/B2-2.jpg

When the foliage is gone the turnips and radish roots are left behind and Mike sent some pics of his Groundhog forage radish roots that did outstanding!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011planting164.jpg

A tremendous amount of deer feed in roots like this

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011planting163.jpg

Along with soil pulverizing and nutrient mining from the radish plants, not to mention some of the most highly attractive forage you can plant for deer to boot!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011planting167.jpg

Deer will eat the roots to the ground and what's left below the soil will decompose leaving scavenged nitrogen behind along with loose fluffy soils from water flowing into the channels and freezing and thawing all winter. If that were not enough, the radish plants have strong allelopathic chemicals that inhibit small seeded weeds from germinating the following spring...great food crop and cover crop in one! :way:

letemgrow

11-15-2011, 08:03 AM

I am sold on those forage radishes...never seen deer eat other brassicas like they do those radishes.

spltbrow

11-17-2011, 03:50 PM

The deer just tear up my gfr like nothing other. Unfortinately my radishes did not get that big this year.

dbltree

11-22-2011, 01:25 PM

The deer just tear up my gfr like nothing other. Unfortunately my radishes did not get that big this year.

Pretty rare to hear anyone say that deer didn't devour their GHFR...:way:

November 22nd, 2011

Working on TSI projects now and I end up driving home just before dark...slowly and cautiously I might add! Doe groups are starting to return to more regular feeding patterns and plenty of cruising bucks dash across the fields and roads in search of.

Each field has the same deer in it every night, alfalfa, corn and bean stubble often literally right beside each other, yet all the deer do not gather in any one field. The number of deer in the fields correlates with the amount/size of adjacent cover...more/larger cover...more deer, the type of food source being irrelevant and therein lies the point I try to get through to landowners managing their properties for whitetails. Deer are opportunistic feeders and as long as they have a food source adjacent to their home bedding area they will seldom leave that feeding area, unless of course that food source disappears.

One of the fields happens to be a large combined corn field that has been sub soiled already, it is large, flat as a pancake with no cover long the road. As many as 30 deer are in that field before dark and no telling how many after dark and these deer are leaving a farm that has standing corn and soybeans along with many food plots scattered through out. It's not that they like picking thru the half buried corn stubble, it's just that it is closer and easy pickin's.

That field is right beside a large field that is soybean stubble and that area is also covered with deer who would rather not walk 400 yards to the corn field and across the road is an alfalfa field with it's own group of deer. If any one of these crops were preferred over another...ALL of the deer would be in that field...but such is not the case. Many landowners are under the false impression that some food source or brand of seed will somehow perform magic and attract deer from miles around but in truth there is no such thing.

Within a field adjacent to great cover, deer may choose one over another at different times...Groundhog forage radish comes to mind but while this is "deer candy"....deer won't travel a mile to get it if they have any options at all next to their bedding area.

The point here is that it is COVER that is the most important factor...NOT any particular food source!!

My friend Rich Baugh sent me pics from one of his food plots where he was hunting...(moments before he shot a giant 194" buck that has lived on his farm his entire life I might add) The food plot is split between brassicas and the rye mix and he noted via several texts to me that deer moved from one to the other with no real preference over the two. Did I mention that Rich also has standing soybeans on his farm??

Note here the outstanding cover...timber and NWSG surrounding this hidden secluded feeding area....the pics are from his phone but there is a 150" buck along with the does...first in the rye

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/Richdeerinrye.jpg

then to the brassicas

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/Richdeerinbrassicasnrye.jpg

Next year the third element...white clover...will be established in this (and other plots) to help provide feed year around and thereby adapt deer to always finding what they need in that one spot!

On another farm we find the same thing...deer feeding in brassicas

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/PICT0127.jpg

and then in soybeans

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/PICT0044.jpg

The landowner observed these deer the other night from a blind and watched them move from brassicas to beans to white clover where they spent a great deal of time. These deer are already adapted to finding ALL of their needs met in this centralized feeding area adjacent to premium cover.

People argue incessantly over the the appearance of "preference" of one food type over another and in so doing completely overlook the factors that are really important.

1) Safe secure bedding areas

2) A combination of food sources that provide food YEAR AROUND

3) A safe, hidden, well screened feeding area

4) ONE centralized feeding area per 80-120 acres

In our endeavor to provide year around food sources the value of root crops cannot be underestimated...and ordinary Purple Top Turnips are hard to beat! With proper fertilization and seeding rate...these things can get huge and my friend Walt pulled one up to see just how big it was!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-11-17_11-41-51_804.jpg

A few feet further we found even bigger ones but...best we leave them for the deer!

The Groundhog forage radishes did very well too

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-11-17_11-44-02_33.jpg

Even though nearly every plant was eaten to the root top!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-11-17_11-45-14_310.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-11-17_11-45-23_312.jpg

Here's a pic of a GHFR next to an uneaten rape plant...which might cause some of you to think...why plant the rape then? Because the GHFR garnered all the attention so far, it allowed the rape and turnip to grow and they in turn will provide feed well into mid winter. Having the right combination of plants/crops then is extremely important because having one alone can leave you with a bare plot and your deer at the neighbors...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-11-17_11-45-45_182.jpg

Each case is different of course and one property may see little activity while another may end up with food sources completely wiped out so it is important to assume you will have the latter and plant a combination of crops that will prevent this from happening. Rye and clover for instance can take a pounding and still keep attracting deer while corn, beans and brassicas can be annihilated and that's it...nothing to hold deer.

Rich does an outstanding job of managing his farm for big whitetails and leaves no stone unturned in doing so and in turn consistently kills giant whitetails...if Rich can see the value in splitting his plots and providing multiple crops within that plot to keep deer coming there year around....perhaps you may as well.... ;)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-11-17_11-46-57_738.jpg

crs740

11-22-2011, 02:30 PM

dbltree

11-22-2011, 04:22 PM

On the property my family currently owns, we have several fields we allow the farmer to harvest for hay. He does his last cutting in August, leaving the field pretty short for the fall. I personally would rather the fields be planted to trees or NWSG so that the deer have more bedding areas and less food. Do you think I should tell him that he can no longer take hay from these fields so that I can allow them to become overgrown? (he doesn't pay us enough to justify allowing them to stay in fields)

I can't say for certain without seeing the entire farm but in many cases fields that produce little or no income are certainly better off in cover. Your welcome to email me an aerial map if you wish...

dbltree2000@yahoo.com

spltbrow

11-22-2011, 06:47 PM

Great info here. One thing i have definately learned this year is that foodplots are definately not the magic ticket and i think are overrated from the exspectancies i had in my head.
I put more hard work into plots this year than i ever had, and have had a teribble hunting year.
This next year I am definately going to focus on cover, cover, and more cover.
Am also thinking on cutting back on some of my plot area for cover.
This year in my agg field (that i gave up $180 per acre rent to turn into foodplot) I planted 2.5 acres of corn and 3 acres of eagle beans and a 1/2 acre of clover. Off to the side a 1/2 acre of lc mix. not getting the deer draw i was acspecting from it.:( So now i am thinking about putting the west 3 acres into crp for cover and extra $$. I just dont want to short change myself on the food as this is the first year i have foodploted this whole area. Counting on late muzzy.;)
Sorry for ranting but your post was exactly what i have been thinking about for next year. COVER!!
Lots of tsi and hingeing to come. Just wish i new more about how to do it, I can only cut the tree once.:o

Sligh1

11-22-2011, 08:02 PM

One thing i have definately learned this year is that foodplots are definately not the magic ticket and i think are overrated
I planted 2.5 acres of corn and 3 acres of eagle beans and a 1/2 acre of clover. Off to the side a 1/2 acre of lc mix. not getting the deer draw i was acspecting from it.:( I just dont want to short change myself on the food as this is the first year i have foodploted this whole area. Counting on late muzzy.;)
COVER!!
Lots of tsi and hingeing to come. Just wish i new more about how to do it, I can only cut the tree once.:o

Tough season for many. Food didn't matter much during rut BUT keep in mind.... late season may be a different ball-game. And- you don't just do it to kill a deer, it's gonna help them immensely in other ways. AND- keep those plots for 3-4 years and the deer will get "trained" to knowing they are always there- might be a different game for you. PATIENCE! Cover is right! Hammer that. My favorite, #1, cover method is TSI! Followed by native grasses. You are right on. Just be patient and don't jump to any conclusions until you've stuck this out and done all you can like you are planning and 3-4 years have gone by. PATIENCE!

When learning hinge cutting or TSI, that is the ONE area you may be best hiring someone to help you mark stuff OR show you the 1st 5 acres OR hiring for consulting/construction OR just hiring to do your 1st job period. You're right- once it's cut- that's it- not an area for on the job learning for the most part.

*AND MAKE SURE YOU CHECK OUT DBLTREE'S TSI & HINGE CUTTING THREADS!

dbltree

11-23-2011, 05:41 AM

keep those plots for 3-4 years and the deer will get "trained" to knowing they are always there- might be a different game for you.Skip is right on and down the road it's possible your plots may get wiped out so proceed with caution. Each situation is different but if you have a ton of ag crops on your farm, deer are adapted to feeding in those and as Skip mentions....that will change in the late season.

Enhance the cover you have first and then see if you need to convert any feed to cover. Remember also to do everything you can to have one central, safe, screened feeding area per 80-120 acres rather then multiple plots all over the farm (obviously large farms will have more)

Deer don't ignore "free food" so the other question is...do you have any deer? Trail cams should help you answer that question...:way:

Your also welcome to email me an aerial of your farm so I can give you some advice if you like....dbltree2000@yahoo.com

spltbrow

11-23-2011, 06:51 PM

Thanks. Areal sent

dbltree

11-30-2011, 09:05 AM

November 30th, 2011

Things change almost overnight as the weather gets colder and food source options become more limited. Some brassica plots have been heavily grazed since late September due to high deer densities and limited food sources but in plots where deer have a little more "choice" they ate the Groundhog forage radish foliage first and left the rape and turnips largely untouched. Now however that has begun to change and because they have eaten the GHFR foliage to the top of the root...the rape plants are next in line.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-11-24_11-02-35_49.jpg

They are not touching the Purple Top turnip foliage at this point (in this plot...in others they have grazed everything for some time)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-11-24_11-02-23_607.jpg

Good example of the GHFR tops eaten down next to a Dwarf Essex rape plant

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-11-24_11-01-21_370.jpg

the obvious evidence of the rape plants being eaten now

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-11-24_11-01-12_144.jpg

Interesting that now they are also eating the radish roots when obviously they don't have to which clearly points to preference at this point

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-11-24_11-03-08_978.jpg

Keep in mind that "preference" does not mean in any case that deer will come from miles around to eat ANY food source, it merely allows us to plant the right crops in the right combination to keep a continuous supply of food available and always have something to meet there needs 24-7, 365 days a year.

The "method to my madness" is clear in this mix....deer focus on the GHFR from the time it is roughly 8-12" high which allows the rape and turnip plants to grow and develop, which in turn assures a continuous supply of feed when planted in blocks with adjacent crops like white clover and the rye combination. NO brassicas can provide food year around so they should NEVER be the ONLY thing planted in any one field...like beans and corn they eventually are gone and then so are the deer.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-11-24_11-02-58_817.jpg

This mix is simple and economical yet when combined with other crops provides high quality, high yielding food sources well into late winter.

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost.

Till ground, cultipack or firm soil, broadcast 5#'s per acre of brassica seed and re-cultipack.

Do NOT mix other crops (especially cereal grains) with brassicas!

Use 60-90#'s of actual nitrogen (150-200#'s of urea per acre) and 200-400#'s of 6-24-24

Remember to divide each field and plant 10-20% in white clover and then divide the remaining amount planting half of that to the brassica mix and half to the rye mix

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant seeds roughly 1-2" deep by lightly tilling or discing in, and then cultipack to cover, broadcast clover and radish seed and re-cultipack

Plant fall grains no earlier then the last week of August through mid September, earlier is better when adding peas and clover

Then rotate the brassica mix to rye and the rye to brassicas which kills a whole flock of birds with one stone. Rotations are a must to keep disease and pests at bay and the clover tilled under from the rye mix will provide at least a portion of the nitrogen need for the brassicas.

The areas in white clover will provide food from early spring to well into winter, brassicas from late August thru mid -winter and the rye mix from mid September all the way til spring. The red clover in the rye mix will (along with the white clover) provide food all summer which means deer have no reason ever to go some where else to look for feed.

When deer are not on your property...where are they?? Getting hit on the road, learning to like the neighbors bedding area, getting shot by poachers, learning NOT to rely on your property....just to name a few.

If your only concern is attracting deer during hunting season, you will never maximize your habitat to hold mature whitetails on your property. Brassicas are just one tool....add it to your tool chest along with the other crops mentioned and you'll find that in time...you'll make your own luck.... ;)

dbltree

12-05-2011, 05:25 AM

Josh sent these pics of his brassicas...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/turnips.jpg

Purple Top Turnips

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Josh4.jpg

Groundhog forage radish...note the obvious grazing of the tops

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Josh5.jpg

Deer feeding in the brassica mix

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Josh3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Josh2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Josh1.jpg

and the reward for all of his hard work....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011WIArchery.jpg

If you have pics of your brassicas and the results of how they worked for you, please share in this thread.... :way:

dbltree

12-14-2011, 11:08 AM

December 14th, 2011

As I update each crop thread I am going to do so with a focus on encouraging each of you to use a combination of crops within ONE feeding area to adapt deer to coming there year around. You can NEVER accomplish this if you plant only ONE crop in that field.

If you enjoy seeing deer in the neighbors fields...stick with the old way but if you really want to hold them on your property, forget planting a fall hunting plot and start growing feed that will provide for their need YEAR AROUND!!

Brassicas are just ONE tool to help us reach our goal of year around food sources and they should be part of a combination of other crops within one feeding area to provide feed from August thru February.

In mid December whitetails are turning on the turnip roots with a vengeance

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-12-11_13-29-33_631.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-12-11_13-50-42_732.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-12-11_13-51-09_397.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6885.jpg

even though they have plenty of soybeans right alongside the brassicas!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-12-11_13-29-46_409.jpg

The radish roots are also getting hit

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6884.jpg

Deer focused on the Groundhog Forage Radish foliage from August well into November but now they have laid waste to the Dwarf Essex Rape plants

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-12-11_13-30-10_641.jpg

and are feeding heavily on any and all foliage remaining

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6886.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6888.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2011-12-11_13-50-54_584.jpg

The big turnips will keep deer fed well into mid winter....crucial to keeping deer coming to our one central food source

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6889.jpg

In previous post I have mentioned a common sight in ag country....a corn/bean/alfalfa stubble field full of deer which leads us to mistakenly believe that...gosh...if I only had corn, beans alfalfa etc....I would have LOT'S of deer too! In truth the deer are just taking advantage of the spilled grain nearest their home bedding area. This is something whitetails are ADAPTED to doing as a survival method, something they have to do simply because they have to stock up fat reserves...NOT because they love corn/soybeans or alfalfa.

The key is thick, safe bedding cover surrounding a feeding area that deer become adapted too because it always has food in it. I would also remind each of you that 50 deer in a 100 acre corn field is not the same as 10 in a one acre plot! if you follow ALL of my threads then you will see whitetails readily eating every food source I plant, with little preference to the kind/type of food.

In this case...we have standing soybeans and brassicas side by side and they of course eat both and as these pics show...clearly enjoy eating the brassicas!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/d2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/d1.jpg

Coming from/thru beans to eat the Purple Top turnip/Dwarf Essex Rape/Groundhog forage radish mix planted in July

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/d3.jpg

This time of year however what we really like to see is the bucks and what THEY like!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/b6.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/b5.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/b4-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/b3-2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/b2-3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/B1-3.jpg

This does not imply that soybeans are no good or that deer prefer brassicas over soybeans....the point is that if the feeding area is safe and adjacent to great bedding....whitetails will soon adapt to feeding there. Once that adaption takes place they will literally eat anything and everything you plant which is great because knowing this we can plant a combination of crops that keep deer fed year around.

White clover, brassicas, winter rye and soybeans are just a few that in combination will insure that deer have no reason to leave your property but that doesn't mean that 100 deer will come from the neighbors farm...those deer are adapted to surviving on whatever food sources are there...forget about them and concentrate on building great habitat on your farm and managing the whitetails that will in turn....live there for life.... ;)

dbltree

12-27-2011, 06:27 AM

December 27th, 2011

The Groundhog forage radish and Dwarf Essex rape foliage has been eaten to the ground along with the foliage from the Purple Top turnips so at this point they are focusing on the roots.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6939.jpg

Exactly as planned in our goal to provide year around food sources in one central feeding area and depending on the yield and area planted, the turnips can provide high quality food well into late winter.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6936.jpg

The two most common problems I encounter is that landowners often use little or no fertilizer and commonly overseed. This results in very small golf ball (or smaller) sized turnips and radish roots with short stunted foliage. Soil test as if for corn and remember that a soil test usually will not provide information on nitrogen requirements and if it it does may be inaccurate.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_6937.jpg

On most soils brassicas will require a bare minimum of 75 to 125#'s of actual nitrogen so i use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and typically they will take roughly a 100#'s each of P&k even if soil nutrients have been brought up to snuff. Knowing this I apply 400#'s of 6-28-28 along with the urea and till it under just before planting.

Overseeding can be corrected by weighing out the correct amount of seed for the given area and then place a few tiny brassica seeds in the broadcast seeder open the gate just enough to barely let the seeds pass thru. If you have seed left over, go back over it crossways to the original path but this method helps me keep from putting too much seed on and ending up with stunted plants.

Drills of course can be used and set at a slightly slower rate then the settings call for clover but remember if you use a no-till drill you will need to either till in the urea or use Ammonium nitrate or urea treated with urease inhibters. Commonly I see contractors planting brassica seed with no -till drills and using no fertilizer at all, leaving clients disappointed with the outcome.

The other mistake is planting the WHOLE field to brassicas rather then dividing it and planting areas of white clover and the winter rye mix which keeps deer from wiping out the brassicas to early. Use the following example to keep from running out of feed and adapting deer to always coming to one place to feed.

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

DH1

12-29-2011, 09:12 AM

SQUID

12-31-2011, 09:08 AM

What's everyone thoughts on broadcasting a light brassica seeding into existing clover plots? My thought is to broadcast after mowing in late june?

dbltree

12-31-2011, 06:42 PM

just want to understand the rye mix and brassica rotation for a few small deer plots that I'm planning for next year:

If I rotate that mix over 2 years, then for the 3rd year, do I need to put in something else in the entire area besides any type of brassica to avoid the disease potential or just avoid the types of brassica I used?

Is the Ground Hog Forage radish amount used low enough not to have to take it out of an area after 2 years?

As another option if I use a rye blend with GHF radishes one year and the next year, rye blend with Pacer Hybrid Forage Brassica (from Welter Seed). For the 3rd year can I go back to GHF radish?

Brassicas are brassicas so planting different varieties would still allow for the possibility of disease but if you use my rotation you will nt have problems.

The brassicas are rotated to the rye mix and the rye mix to brassicas so the disease cycle is broken yearly. The GHFR in the rye mix will be broken by being in red clover all summer and the brassica plot will be in oats and berseem clover for the summer....so if you plant the mixes I suggest...no worries about disease...period.

Problems arise when brassicas follow brassicas and nothing is planted in between...that will never happen if you plant the above mixes and rotate them...:way:

What's everyone thoughts on broadcasting a light brassica seeding into existing clover plots? My thought is to broadcast after mowing in late june?

White clover is too aggressive and will out compete the brassicas...plant the brassicas alone in a separate area of the same plot. Use a rotation as I mention in the previous post for best results, highest yields and the most attractive forage. ;)

dbltree

01-01-2012, 03:08 PM

January 1st, 2012

The brassica test plot I have in the garden only 10 yards from my house doesn't seem to get hit any less then then any other feeding areas I plant!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7048.jpg

The Rape plants are grazed but withstanding the single digit temps well

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7050.jpg

Surprisingly the Kale plants have not been grazed and the big tall plants seem to be more susceptible to the frigid weather

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7049.jpg

The turnips here have not been eaten yet but I suspect it is only a matter of time

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7051.jpg

The brassica forage as a whole other then the kale has been heavily grazed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7052.jpg

I watch the deer from my kitchen window but they are eating these at night, something that many landowners forget to take into account. When the feeding area is too open and unprotected sometimes deer feed only at night leaving the impression the food is being uneaten. Sometimes it does take a year or two of exposure to brassicas before whitetails feed on them depending on the availability of other food sources but so far i have not had a case of deer turning up their noses at Groundhog forage radish which makes it ideal to adapt deer to brassicas.

If deer didn't eat your brassicas this year try planting a smaller portion of the feeding area and mix the forage radish with it and see if they don't begin to adapt to it. Personally on the farms I work with the worst problem is keeping them from wiping them out by early fall!

Remember that no one crop is capable of holding whitetails year around and doing so is the only way to adapt them you yours and...ignoring the farm next door! Proper fertilization is also critical...nutrient starved plants are not attractive nor can they provide the type of yields that allow us to keep deer fed all winter.

The following is not only a list of the food sources I plant in ONE feeding area per 80-120 acres but the nutrients I feed them when starting the program.

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot...plant with the rye mix below and soil test for needed P&K/lime requirements. Lacking a soil test I use 400#'s of 6-28-28 and 500#'s of pel lime in my area.

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea, 400#'s of 6-28-28 (or comparable such as 400#'s triple 19 ) Add lime per soil test. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring and no fertilizer is necessary at that time.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas only 100-200#'s of urea may be needed but first time plantings may need to be fertilized and limed as the noted for the brassicas.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

DH1

01-03-2012, 05:37 PM

Thanks dbltree for clarifying the rotation on the Brassicas. You really have fine-tuned this mixture over the years. We all benefit from your unselfishness to share your wisdom and the time that it takes as well.

DH1

01-03-2012, 05:49 PM

Note for some folks that are new to deer food plots or looking for new ideas to improve your deer plot success.
- I agree 100% with you dbltree on including Ground Hog Forage Radish. The first year I used them, just 2years ago, I was blown away at how much the deer went after them, even before it got freezing cold. And like you mentioned, we saw more deer this year than last, so it takes a little patience to give higher number of deer a chance to find those new plots.
- The GHF radish are worth the trouble of finding a source to buy from. Of the 2 local coops in the UP near my planting site, 2 years ago neither carried them, this year only one did and they were sold out prior to end of August (I was running a few weeks behind).
- Welters Seed gets my vote for best seed source, they had the GHF radishes, clovers with a proven track record for growing aggressive (competing against the weeds) and providing high quality forage. My coops are good on prices just limited on seed selection and carry VNS clovers, still good for rye, oats or forage peas though.
- I guess for today, that's the only vote of mine that will count in Iowa...:D

dbltree

01-04-2012, 06:06 AM

Thanks for the feedback on the GHFR and Welters DH1 :way:

January 4th, 2012

For years I felt like "corn was king" and because deer love corn it was the best option but over time I became disenchanted with growing this expensive crop. Corn and soybeans are useful and great attractants for a time in the fall so I don't want to convince anyone that enjoys growing these crops that it's a bad idea but rather to show that they have severe limitations along with being very expensive to grow.

A landowner friend of mine that I work for had the farmer leave roughly 3 acres of corn standing on several large corn fields with intentions of hunting them in the late season but when I checked on them recently I found they were stripped clean!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2012-01-02_15-25-19_123.jpg

Even mediocre yields of 120 bushel per acre X 6.50 a bushel is nearly $800 X 3 =$2400 worth of corn...gone like a wisp of smoke on a windy day!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2012-01-02_15-25-05_963.jpg

The problem with corn is that once it's gone....it's gone and there is not so much as a scrap to keep deer on your property

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2012-01-02_15-25-25_184.jpg

There are of course situations where landowners have few deer and the corn lasts all winter so this is by no means an across the board consideration when planning your habitat but for many if not most, the combination of other less expensive crops planted in strips in one centralized field will feed deer all year long.

Fortunately in this case we have that very thing planted adjacent to the cornfield and though deer are pounding it relentlessly it's keeping them coming back for more!!

Note the combination of two separate crop mixes within one field simply by dividing the field in 1/2

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2012-01-02_15-25-59_19.jpg

In this case one area is actually divided three times and white clover is being established by planting it with the rye combination last fall

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2012-01-02_15-26-53_899.jpg

So we have winter rye/oats/peas/radish and red clover in one strip and Purple Top turnips, Dwarf Essex rape and Groundhog forage radish in the the other strip and the rye mix with white clover in the third.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2012-01-02_15-27-03_388.jpg

Those combinations are far less expensive then growing or leaving corn yet obviously every bit as attractive and in this case...the first year deer were exposed to them. Because winter rye grows in colder temps then wheat it is able to continue to keep deer fed and will spring back to life long before wheat in the spring...right when deer need it most!

Right now though the Purple top turnips and forage radish roots are what deer are feeding on heavily...note that every last scrap of foliage has been eaten!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2012-01-02_15-26-35_660.jpg

Now they are eating the turnips literally right into the dirt!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2012-01-02_15-26-29_175.jpg

another reason why we need to fertilize brassicas for high yields to grow roots that can keep deer fed well into the new year

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2012-01-02_15-26-16_689.jpg

When the last turnip is gone...the rye will keep them coming back and digging thru the snow for it and the red clover will spring to life in the spring to feed them until we till it under for a rotation to brassicas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/2012-01-02_15-26-45_162.jpg

Once the white clover is established around the perimeter it to will be an extremely useful tool in adapting deer to coming to this single, centralized feeding area. Tilling under the red clover will allow the brassicas to take advantage of the nitrogen it fixed as it grew thru the summer. Where the brassicas are now we will plant oats and berseem clover which also will feed deer thru the summer (versus the bare dirt people often leave) and when we till it under for the rye combination we will have copious amounts of both organic matter and nitrogen for the rye combination.

The combination listed below then is in reality far less expensive then corn yet far more attractive and effective at holding deer year around...something corn will never ever be able to accomplish. Corn is not a bad thing so if you can grow it in conjunction with other food sources then by all means but for many of us it is neither cost effective nor necessary to reach our goals.... ;)

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot...plant with the rye mix below and soil test for needed P&K/lime requirements. Lacking a soil test I use 400#'s of 6-28-28 and 500#'s of pel lime in my area.

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea, 400#'s of 6-28-28 (or comparable such as 400#'s triple 19 ) Add lime per soil test. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring and no fertilizer is necessary at that time.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas only 100-200#'s of urea may be needed but first time plantings may need to be fertilized and limed as the noted for the brassicas.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

dbltree

01-06-2012, 06:22 AM

January 6th, 2012

I shared in a recent post about how easily and quickly corn can be decimated leaving behind an empty field that leaves nothing to hold whitetails on our property and soybeans are often the same way. There always exceptions and now and then someone combines the left over grain n the spring because they have been uneaten. Anyone with any number of deer however will usually find that corn and beans may last only a few weeks or worse yet be wiped out by the end of summer and it is for that reason I have settled on the white clover/brassica/rye combination crops to keep deer fed year around in high deer density areas.

The following is a field where we tried white clover/brassicas and soybeans this year and while the soybeans did great the landowner was disappointed to find that the beans lasted only a few weeks ...and this during one of the mildest winters we have had in some time!

The strip crop method allows us to have all the crops mentioned in one field which in turn adapts deer to coming to one place 24/7, 365 days a year.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7059.jpg

Unfortunately in this case the soybeans didn't last long

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7064.jpg

The huge turnips however are feeding deer and keeping them coming back for more!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7066.jpg

We fertilize the brassicas heavily and use caution not to over seed and the results are outstanding!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7067.jpg

They eat the big Purple Tops like apples!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7060.jpg

and these things, despite a severe drought....got huge!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7061.jpg

Often landowners have problems initially with deer refusing to eat brassicas but by adapting deer to finding feed in our feeding area with white clover...something that is available nearly every month of the year,,,they come to depend on that feeding area and quickly adapt to the brassicas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7062.jpg

In this field as has been the case in 100% of the fields i plant for other landowners ...whitetails began eating the brassicas within 30 days of planting and don't stop until every last morsel is gleaned from the field...this where deer have never tasted a brassica in their lives!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7069.jpg

By adding the irresistible Groundhog Forage radish, deer quickly adapt to brassicas focusing on them as soon as the GHFR is roughly 8-10" high. Do not however make the mistake of planting ONLY brassicas, incorporate areas of white clover and split the feeding area between brassicas and the rye combination mix to allow for yearly rotation.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7070.jpg

Right from the get go I have shared pics in this field of deer walking thru soybeans to get to the brassicas, starting when they were still green and deer focused on the GH forage radish.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/d3.jpg

and it hasn't changed...only know they are eating the GHFR roots!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/PICT0317.jpg

While soybeans are certainly useful...they also are not necessary to hold whitetails

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/b8.jpg

In this pic you can see deer feeding in each brassica strip as well as white clover in the background

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/Clovernbrassicas.jpg

No more deer fed in this field with soybeans then when the soy strips were planted in rye

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/PICT0030.jpg

So don't be misled into thinking they hold the key to a field full of monster bucks

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/PICT1311.jpg

We have been providing year around food sources in this field for 4 years now, so deer are adapted to it and focus on it regardless of what we plant

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/PICT1911.jpg

The advantages of using the rye/oats/peas/radish/red clover combination are many....they can NEVER run out of feed! Winter rye continues to grow at temps as low as 34 degrees and no other commonly grown crop, including wheat can do this. This means about the time the turnips are gone the rye will not only still be there but will provide feed during a critical time period in late winter/early spring. The red clover will take over from there and provide food sources until tilled under for a rotation to brassicas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/PICT2744.jpg

If you do plant soybeans as part of your program be sure to plant early maturing beans that dry down in late August, then overseed the soybeans with rye and radishes so the field is not left barren and empty. In this case severe drought kept the rye from germinating until it was too late to provide much forage.

There is no one size fits all when it comes to habitat and the more diversified your plantings are the less your risk of having a crop failure and the greater your odds of providing year around food sources. Brassicas are one very dependable food source that can provide feed for a longer period of time then either soybeans or corn and easily grown by almost any landowner and any budget.

Use any combination of crops but be sure to keep them in one feeding area that is centralized or several small areas that together are in a central area of your property and regardless of size, plant them ALL in the same feeding area. The following is what I have found to be the most reliable and cost effective crop combination to attract and hold whitetails year around with even the highest deer densities.

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot...plant with the rye mix below and soil test for needed P&K/lime requirements. Lacking a soil test I use 400#'s of 6-28-28 and 500#'s of pel lime in my area.

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea, 400#'s of 6-28-28 (or comparable such as 400#'s triple 19 ) Add lime per soil test. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring and no fertilizer is necessary at that time.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas only 100-200#'s of urea may be needed but first time plantings may need to be fertilized and limed as the noted for the brassicas.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

dbltree

01-13-2012, 12:26 PM

January 13th, 2012

My friend Mark sent me pics of his brassicas from this summer

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/MarkBrassica1.jpg

and what they look like now!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/MarkBrassica2.jpg

While Mark is very happy with the results he is also glad he planted the rye combination to continue holding deer. They have grazed the rye mix nearly to the dirt also but unlike brassicas, soybeans and corn...the rye keeps em' coming back!

In the spring Mark plans to turn under the spent brassica portion of the field and plant oats and berseem clover that will then be turned under in late August to rotate to the rye mix. Planting these combinations all in the same fields has begun to change things for those who have given it a shot and the difference in their soils and the number of whitetails using their feeding areas is dramatic.

If you put the same effort into improving your cover and combine great cover with year around food sources you find it far easier to hold and pattern whitetails on your property as well. Food is only part of the recipe for success but the ingredients below are some of the most effective yet economical available to us....

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot...plant with the rye mix below and soil test for needed P&K/lime requirements. Lacking a soil test I use 400#'s of 6-28-28 and 500#'s of pel lime in my area.

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea, 400#'s of 6-28-28 (or comparable such as 400#'s triple 19 ) Add lime per soil test. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring and no fertilizer is necessary at that time.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas only 100-200#'s of urea may be needed but first time plantings may need to be fertilized and limed as the noted for the brassicas.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

dbltree

01-24-2012, 04:02 PM

Groundhog Forage Radish

One of the great things about forage radish is that once the top is gone (foliage and top of root) the rest of the root will decompose quickly leaving a channel into which water flows (rain/snow melt) and freezing/thawing soon pulverizes hard pan soils

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Forage%20Radish/GHFR1.jpg

I took these pics a while back but the root was rapidly decomposing and water could already flow in along side the root

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Forage%20Radish/GHFR2.jpg

Forage radish plants are also nitrogen scavengers as well as pulling up subsoil nutrients with their deep tap roots and that long with their strong allelopathic effects makes them a great companion to plant with other brassicas in July or with rye in late summer.

Of course no one cares about that...only if deer eat them or not but I promise you'll have a tough time finding any other food source they love more then....forage radish.... ;)

dbltree

01-28-2012, 06:34 AM

January 28th, 2012

A friend of mine sent me pics of his rye combo/brassica strip plots...guess the deer approve!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/RichBrassicas.jpg

In these pics they have already mowed the rye down and are focusing on the turnips in the brassica mix...the turkeys love to feed in the grazed rye however!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/RichRye.jpg

This following spring the red clover will grow where the rye is and he'll plant oats and berseem where the brassicas are which will keep deer coming to this same spot!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/Richfeed.jpg

The big turnips will keep deer fed thru most of the winter and then they will go back to the rye which will be one of the first things to green up.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/RichBrassicas2.jpg

next summer he will rotate the brassicas to the rye/red clover strip and the rye to the brassica side (oats and berseem in the spring) What a fantastic combination of crops that enables him to keep his deer fed year around and that keeps them on his farm rather then...the neighbors. This year he will add white clover around the perimeter to round out the mix which is as follows...

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot...plant with the rye mix below and soil test for needed P&K/lime requirements. Lacking a soil test I use 400#'s of 6-28-28 and 500#'s of pel lime in my area.

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most Midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea, 400#'s of 6-28-28 (or comparable such as 400#'s triple 19 ) Add lime per soil test. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring and no fertilizer is necessary at that time.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas only 100-200#'s of urea may be needed but first time plantings may need to be fertilized and limed as the noted for the brassicas.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

Fishbonker

01-28-2012, 08:44 PM

I planted the PT/GFR/DER combination last summer. The deer pretty much ignored it until this past week or so. The greens have been eaten to the stems and they are working on the bulbs. This is the first time I have had any action in the brassicas in the three times I have planted it. I planted it this year mainly for the soil augmentation/allopathic properties thinking the deer would ignore it again. I don’t know what switch got flipped but something turned them on.

The other possibility could be I was checking my traps every evening until about three weeks ago. Perhaps I was stinkin the place up, but that wasn’t the case the past two times I planted them. So as Paul has posted, if you plant it they will eventually come.

Also, I haven't planted brassiacs in a couple of years. Perhaps there were other brassicas plots planted in the neighborhood that educated them.

SWBUCKHNTR

01-28-2012, 09:16 PM

Sounds like par for the course. One plot of brassicas every couple years will get used just not heavily. I think that is why Paul preaches everything in 1 plot so the deer use it and you eventually adapt them to using that field. It makes perfect sense if there is food there 2 months a year every couple years they wont "flock" but if they have food in one area everyday of the year and have it year after year. They will adapt their fawns to eat there and their fawns will eat there and so on and so on. Its exactly like farmers using john deere because their dad used john deere.

vrod

01-30-2012, 11:00 AM

dbltree

02-01-2012, 07:28 AM

Would you plant this in strips. Or would you make sections? I would like to get something going in the spring and then again for late summer/fall. I planted (oats/wheat/turnips)on one acre along the south edge last year and they destroyed it by the end of nov. Looking for advice how best to lay out plantings. Plan on using your no fail mix in the fall. Would like to get a good clover going as well. This is 5-6 acres total.

http://i1210.photobucket.com/albums/cc417/kenny_levy/map1.png

You have options here but I would establish white clover all the way around the perimeter (30' wide perhaps) and then then divide the field in a way that is convenient to plant it. This is a perfect example of a hidden field and it's going to be hit hard, so if you can divide it 2-4 times it would probably help keep them from decimating everything.

Be sure to plant the brassicas in July and the rye mix in late August and fertilize each heavily and then rotate them yearly. Do NOT mix brassicas and cereals other then the radishes with the rye.

If you have to divide it only 2 ways it will still work very well but strips force deer to move across the field rather then focusing on a spot when the first step into the field.

Keep us posted on how this works out for you...great spot! :way:

vrod

02-01-2012, 07:58 AM

In your opinion would it be better to burn this field off or just spray. I like cheap, but I also want to do what will work best.

dbltree

02-01-2012, 04:02 PM

In your opinion would it be better to burn this field off or just spray. I like cheap, but I also want to do what will work best.

I would spray it and plant it to oats and berseem clover this spring, then turn under half in July for brassicas and the other 1/2 in late August for the rye mix.

dbltree

02-13-2012, 07:05 AM

February 13th, 2012

Another example of using strip plots too keep deer fed year around, where on crop is gone but another keeps on feeding is this soybean/brassica/clover combination, where the soybeans have long ago been stripped clean.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7301.jpg

The big Purple Top Turnips however are the gift that keeps on giving!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7304.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7303.jpg

Even in mid February they are still in good shape and feeding deer

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7302.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/IMG_7305.jpg

and the brassicas are getting plenty of attention!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/b1-4.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/b2-4.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/b3-3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/b4-2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deer%20in%20brassicas/b5-1.jpg

Brassicas make a great addition to a central feeding area with a combination of other crops that together keep deer fed year around. Deer quickly adapt to having food there at all times and soon develop very predictable patterns that combined with trail blocking make them very easy to kill.

The following is an example of crop combinations that work very well for me and my clients....

Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot...plant with the rye mix below and soil test for needed P&K/lime requirements. Lacking a soil test I use 400#'s of 6-28-28 and 500#'s of pel lime in my area.

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea, 400#'s of 6-28-28 (or comparable such as 400#'s triple 19 ) Add lime per soil test. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring and no fertilizer is necessary at that time.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas only 100-200#'s of urea may be needed but first time plantings may need to be fertilized and limed as the noted for the brassicas.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year

cwhite

02-17-2012, 11:34 AM

Can oats be frost seeded into the spent brassica mix or is it better to prep the soil in the spring before planting?

dbltree

02-17-2012, 08:00 PM

Can oats be frost seeded into the spent brassica mix or is it better to prep the soil in the spring before planting?

No...cereal grains can not be "frost seeded"...some cereals can be "overseeded" onto bare soils when weather is warm enough to germinate seeds but oats often germinate very poorly on bare soils without being tilled in. You'll have better luck tilling under the spent brassicas and then planting oats and an annual clover by conventional methods although you can also no-till plant them with a no-till drill.

spltbrow

02-20-2012, 07:07 PM

I am trying to figure out my plot rotation for this year and have found over the last 2 years the deer have not touched my brassicas, so i am not sure if i should keep planting them or not??
They love gfr though!!
I would also like to include beans and corn in the rotation as well. So i was thinking about substituteing the brassicas with corn and beans, or is that a mistake?

I would end up with fall mix, clover, corn and beans in 6.5 acre area.

SWBUCKHNTR

02-20-2012, 09:03 PM

once again I am not an expert but I would guess pauls response will look something like this.
Quote:
<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>
Plant ALL in one plot in strips or blocks

Alice (or comparable) white clover 10% of plot...plant with the rye mix below and soil test for needed P&K/lime requirements. Lacking a soil test I use 400#'s of 6-28-28 and 500#'s of pel lime in my area.

Brassicas in 45% of plot

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost. Use 200#'s of 46-0-0 urea, 400#'s of 6-28-28 (or comparable such as 400#'s triple 19 ) Add lime per soil test. Follow the dead brassicas with oats and berseem or crimson clover in mid spring and no fertilizer is necessary at that time.

Cereal Grain combo in 45% of plot

Winter rye 50-80#'s per acre (56#'s = a bushel)
Spring oats 80-120#'s per acre (32#'s = a bushel)
Austrian Winter Peas or 4010/6040 Forage peas 20-80#'s per acre
Red Clover 8-12#'s per acre or white clover at 6#'s per acre
Groundhog Forage Radish 5#'s per acre

Plant in late August to early September, if following well fertilized brassicas only 100-200#'s of urea may be needed but first time plantings may need to be fertilized and limed as the noted for the brassicas.

Rotate the brassicas and rye combo each year </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
__________________
I am sure he will have some great info about the corn and beans as well. I will let him answer the rest of it because he has a lot more knowledge than myself:way: