Brassicas

[dbltree]

Brassicas are a very easy to grow and inexpensive source of quality forage for whitetails although in cases where there is plenty of other food sources, deer may refuse to touch them. This thread is meant to answer most common questions about growing brassicas. The following is a quick reference of what and how I plant brassicas:

Dwarf Essex Rape Seed 1#
Purple Top Turnips 1#
Appin forage turnip 1#
Barkant Forage Turnip 1#
Barnapoli Rape Seed 1/2#
Pasja Hybrid Brassica 1/2#
GroundHog Forage Radish 5#

or and economical and very productive mix might be

Purple Top Turnips 3#
Dwarf Essex Rape 2#
GroundHog Forage radish 5#

Plant in mid to late July in most midwest states, or 60-90 days before your first killing frost.

Till ground, cultipack or firm soil, broadcast 5#'s per acre of brassica seed and re-cultipack.

Do NOT mix other crops (especially cereal grains) with brassicas!

Use 60-90#'s of actual nitrogen (150-200#'s of urea per acre) and 200-400#'s of 6-24-24

Brassica SeedThe mix I list above is chock full of great rape, turnip and hybrid brassica varieties but most plotters need only combine one rape and one turnip variety for great results. Rape providing early attractive forage and turnips a source of late winter feed from their highly nutritious roots.The following are seed suppliers, many of whom offer seed by the pound allowing plotters to purchase only what they need but keep in mind there may be a small handling charge or increased price when purchasing "two pounds" for instance. Always check with your local co-op to save on shipping charges as well.

Welter Seed (http://www.welterseed.com/)

Albert Lea Seed (http://www.alseed.com/)

Adams - Briscoe Seed Company (http://www.abseed.com/)

Ernst Seeds (http://www.ernstseed.com/default.aspx)

MAXI-RACK Seed (http://www.maxirack.com/poundseeds.html)

Cooper Seeds (http://www.cooperseeds.com/pages/wildlife/)

Seedland Brassica seed (http://www.seedland.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=Seedland&Category_Code=WG-BRASSICA)

Star Seed (http://gostarseed.com/)

Deer Creek Seed (http://www.deercreekseed.com/brassica-blend-seed.html)

Links to growing brassicas

Brassicas for fall grazing (http://ces.uwyo.edu/psas/documents/ssBrassicaBulletin.pdf)

Fall and winter grazing (http://ohioline.osu.edu/b872/b872_32.html)

Brassica Fodder Crops for Fall Grazing (http://www.umass.edu/cdl/publications/Brassica.htm)

Turnip (http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/afcm/turnip.html)

Brassicas and Mustards for Cover Cropping (http://www.extension.org/article/18643)


Brassica types:
There are 4 basic types of brassicas that we use in food plots and those are divided into two groups:

Short season brassicas have a 60-90 growing season so we plant them in late July to early August in the midwest.Rape (Brassica napus L.)Rape plants are forage only with no roots such as turnips have.

Barnapoli Rape

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/BarnapoliRape.jpg

Dwarf Essex Rape commonly available and highly sought after forage

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/DER11-4.jpg

Mature forage rape is one of the best crops available for fattening lambs and flushing ewes. Rape is a multistemmed crop with fibrous roots. The stems vary in length, diameter, and in palatability to livestock. Forage yields of spring- planted rape increase until plants become physiologically mature. Growth slows or ceases at maturity and yields plateau until leaves senesce and die. Varieties differ in when this occurs, however, Rangi rape retains its leaves longer than most varieties. Generally, yields of rape varieties in Pennsylvania are maximized with two , 90-day growth periods. However, performance of Emerald and Winfred rape varieties, is best with one 180-day growth period, and yields of rape hybrids were greatest with 60 days of growth before the first harvest and a 30-day growth period before the second harvest.Turnip (Brassica rapa L.) or Turnip Hybrids

Appin Turnip Tops

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/AppinTurnip11-4.jpg

Appin turnip roots

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/ApprinTurniproot11-4.jpg

Pasja Turnip Tops

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/PasjaTurnips.jpg

Pasja Turnip roots...these hybrids are bred primarily for forage rather then root production

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/PasjaTurniproot11-4.jpg

Barkant Turnip Tops

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/BarkantTurnip11-4.jpg

Barkant Turnip roots These turnips are bred for root production

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/BarkantTurniproot11-4.jpg

Purple Top turnips are a dependable and economical turnip with great root production

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/PurpleTopTurnip11-4.jpg

Purple Top Turnip roots Excellent root production!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/PurpleTopTurniproot11-4.jpg


These crops grow very fast, reaching near maximum production levels in 80 to 90 days.

Studies in southwestern Pennsylvania showed that turnip can accumulate dry matter in October as fast as field corn does in August. Growing "out of season" (October/November) makes turnip a valuable crop for late fall grazing.

The proportions of tops and roots varies markedly depending on variety, crop age, and planting date. Research by the USDA Pasture Laboratory showed that turnip crops can vary from 90 percent tops/10 percent roots to 15 percent tops/85 percent roots. Some hybrids have fibrous roots which will not be readily grazed by livestock. All varieties produce primarily tops during the first 45 days of growth. Sixty to 90 days after seeding, turnip varieties such as Savannah and All Top continue to produce a high proportion of tops. During the same period, other turnip varieties have nearly equal top and root production and Purple Top has a greater root than top production.

The significance in the proportion of tops and roots is that the crude protein concentration (8 to 10%) of roots is approximately one-half of that in turnip tops. Therefore, greater root production tends to reduce the crude protein yield of the total crop. On the other hand, stockpiled tops appear to be more vulnerable to weather and pest damage than roots. Varieties differ in resistance to diseases, but this often is not evident until the crop is more than 80 days of age and the plants are reaching full production.Forage Radish

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Forage%20Radish/2010planting183.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Forage%20Radish/MIkeGHFRroot.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Forage%20Radish/IMG_0023.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Forage%20Radish/IMG_0012.jpg

Heavily grazed forage radish

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Forage%20Radish/IMG_0002.jpg


Tillage Radish (http://www.tillageradish.com/index.php)

Ampac - Groundhog Tillage Radish (http://www.ampacseed.com/groundhog.htm)

It doesn't look a whole lot different and deer and livestock forage on the leaves just like other brassicas, the difference is in the extremely long root.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8xC9bwq6AVU/SpW6NlxwTBI/AAAAAAAAInM/rsJGRPuzsc8/s1600/forage%2Bradish.JPG

Many of us have very hard pan clay soils that we are trying to improve by various soil building methods and Forage Radishes are a fantastic, simple and economical way of loosening soil, bringing up nutrients from the sub soil and feeding deer at the same time.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/GHFR10-13.jpg

The tops don't look much different then other brassicas but I find deer hammer them even when they won't eat other brassicas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/GHForageradish10-13.jpg

The following spring however the rotted tap roots will leave deep holes that will have shattered the hard pan. Water runs into the holes, the freezing and thawing breaks up compacted soils.

In the fall though the tender foliage attracts whitetails!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/GroundHogradish4weeks.jpg

Imagine hard soils like a plate...what happens when we pour water on a plate? Pour anything on a hard surface and it's going to run off. Imagine roots trying to penetrate that hard plate, imagine the stress and energy on a plant as it's roots struggle for everything it needs, unable to go vertically where the "gold mine" lays.

Now...imagine a soft fluffy sponge...water and nutrients absorb instantly rather then running off. Tap roots of whatever we plant on loosened soils can penetrate deep into subsoil for moisture and nutrients previously "locked" beneath the hardpan or "plate" so to speak.



Radishes for deer (https://www.aonmag.com/article.php?id=1807)

Brassicas and Mustards for Cover Cropping (http://www.extension.org/article/18643)

Like field rye, radishes suppress weeds both while growing and the following year. Starting to get the picture here? :)

Using the right combination of crops like rye, buckwheat and radishes we can loosen soil, build the organic matter, "haul" up hidden nutrients, soak up nitrogen..and that's just the beginning! :way:

This is the new improved forage/tillage radish called Groundhog Forage radish available from Welter Seed

What is the difference between the "Groundhog" variety and the regular "oilseed radish"?

Groundhog radishes are an improved tillage variety...developed by Ampac Seed with more info at this link:GroundHog Radish (http://www.ampacseed.com/groundhog.htm)GH is a tillage radish...and this pic shows the difference

http://www.ampacseed.com/images/groundhog/differenceintheroots550x413.jpg

This pic shows the difference in GH versus Daikon radishes

http://www.ampacseed.com/images/groundhog/Daikon-vs-GroundHog550x712.jpg

Some folks wonder how deep the GH radish grows?? Note that the tap root can go several feet deeper then the radish itself.Hard to beat for $2.65 a pound from Welter Seed!! 8-)Outstanding winter annual weed control: Radishes suppress most winter annuals. Henbit and chickweed are no match for fast growing tillage radishes. http://www.tillageradish.com/images/weed_control.jpg

Earthworms and forage radish (http://newfarm.rodaleinstitute.org/depts/notill/features/worms.shtml)

Cedar Meadow Farm (http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/FarmResearch/ForageRadish.html)

Forage radish mixes to renovate field lanes (http://newfarm.rodaleinstitute.org/features/2005/1105/winterradish/bowman.shtml)

Tillage Radishes (http://www.tillageradish.com/)

FORAGE RADISH, A NEW COVER CROP (http://fcn.agronomy.psu.edu/2005/fcn0514.cfm)

Seed isn't expensive and is planted just exactly like other summer planted brassicas.

Seeding rate: 8-10 lbs per acre when planted alone. Plant 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep. If dry, plant 1 inch deep.

Seed size is slightly larger than alfalfa. The alfalfa setting will be close to desired tillage radish seeding rate.

Radishes are a quick covering crop that is usually up in 4 days Some planting tips

Tillage radishes are extremely competitive and will outgrow most other cover crops seeded as a companion cover crop. However, seeding rates can be adjusted in order that the tillage radishes don’t out compete the other species.

Successful establishment of mixtures has been obtained by planting alternating rows with a drill that has both a legume box and grain box. We have also found the variety “Jerry” oats to do well when mixed with Tillage radishes.

Tillage radishes germinate very easily- similar to rye. They can be broadcasted on the surface and will grow if there are sufficient seeds contacting the soil and moisture is adequate. This is a cheaper method of establishment but comes with the risk of poor or uneven germination. However successful broadcast establishment has been achieved by some farmers.
Aerial seeding into soybeans before leaf drop and into standing corn is possible but it has been observed that tillage radishes do not perform as well compared to drilling. The roots just don’t seem to be as aggressive even after the crop is harvested and they can capture full sunlight. Another risk with soybeans, is if the weather doesn’t cooperate with harvest, the radishes could grow up through the canopy and cause problems with green radish leaves entering the combineThere are great pics of radishes broadcast into soybeans at leaf yellowing in this link: Growing Tillage Radishes (http://www.tillageradish.com/growing.htm)


Growing Tips

Fertility: Tillage radishes will take up excess nitrogen after a crop. However, in order to fully express their rooting action, they need at least 60 lbs of N– accumulated either as residual or applied. In most instances, with high fertility fields, there is sufficient N left over from the previous crop. However, in low fertility fields, adding N is necessary to allow the radishes to achieve maximum rooting. Upon decomposition in the spring, N will then be released in time for utilization of a spring crop.

Tillage Radishes don’t like wet spots. Fields with a history of being wet are not a good choice to plant tillage radishes. One rule of thumb is if alfalfa can’t grow, neither will tillage radishes.

Radishes will winter kill when temperatures drop to the mid-teens on successive nights

Tillage radishes will winter kill similar to fall planted spring oats. One night in the teens will not take them out- it takes several nights in a row. Winter kill also depends on how warm it may get after a cold spell. Above normal temperatures after a few nights in the teens will allow the tillage radishes to recover until another cold snap arrives.

Tillage Radishes have an unpleasant odor when decaying. After tillage radishes are hit hard with cold weather and start to decay, they will emit an unpleasant odor-especially if warmer weather arrives. It’s no worse than manure per se, but then again for some it has caused them to investigate exactly where that “smell came from”.
All the pics and quotes come from the following links:

Tillage Radishes (http://www.tillageradish.com/index.php)

Tillage Radish Research (http://www.tillageradish.com/research.htm)

Biotilling with forage radish (http://www.newfarm.org/features/2005/1105/winterradish/bowman.shtml)

Cedar Meadow Farm (http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/)

Overseed forage radish into soybeans (http://www.newfarm.org/columns/jeff_moyer/ask/2006/0906/0914_6.shtml)

GRAZA Forage Radishes (http://www.seedtoday.com/info/articles_2col.html?companyid=7301&type=ci&ID=32520)

Radishes for deep tillage (http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/hort/faculty/bjorkman/covercrops/pdfs/Weil_radish.pdf)

Seed is slightly over 2 bucks a pound very much like turnip and rape seed.

The seed I planted this year was Graza Radish and I don't know how it compares to Diakon Radishes at this point.

Graza Radish Seed (http://www.maxirack.com/poundseeds.html)

Welter Seed is now offering Oilseed Radish

Oilseed Radish Seed source (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=418)

Albert Lea Seed Co. carries oilseed radish

Oilseed Radish Seed (http://www.alseed.com/__files/farm_catalog.pdf)

Here is a source for Daikon Oil Radish and GroundHog Forage Radish

The Seed Center (http://www.theseedcenter.com/prod_list.php?cat_id=1&PHPSESSID=4648f3b982be8e1548ff8944f4d001a9)


Long season brassicas require a 150-220 day growing season so these we plant in the spring:

Kale (Brassica oleracea L.)Varieties of kale differ markedly in rate of establishment, stem development, time required to reach maturity, and in winterhardiness. The stemless type kale (e.g. Premier) has a faster rate of establishment than varieties which produce stems. Crop height of the stemless type is approximately 25 inches, whereas that of marrow stem kale is 60 inches with primary stems often 2 inches in diameter. Stemless kale attains maturity in approximately 90 days, allowing two crops/year, whereas varieties that develop stems require 150 to 180 days to attain maximum production. Premier has consistently survived winters in central Pennsylvania, whereas other varieties of kale usually are winter-killed in December.

Swede (Brassica napus L.)

Like turnip, swedes produce a large edible root. Yields are higher than those of turnip, but they grow slower and require 150 to 180 days to reach maximum production. Swedes usually produce a short stem (neck), but can have stems 2 1/2 feet long when grown with tall crops which shade the swede. Unfortunately, stem elongation is at the expense of root development. The variety Calder was found to be cold hardy in central Pennsylvania and thus ideal for stockpiling and late fall or early winter grazing. In general, all swede varieties are recommended for late fall grazing.

Long seasons can produce more tonnage in situations where that is needed but short seasons are more commonly planted in food plots. A common mistake is planting short season brassicas to early in which case they mature, go to seed and then rot...just before hunting season! :shock: Remember to plant 60-90 days before your average first frost date for maximum yields of good quality forage.

I always use both forage and root types in either short or long season mixes so that when the forage is gone they can feed on the roots well into winter.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Oct25brassicas.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BiologicRoot.jpg

Brassica Seed Sources:I have tested all brands and varieties of brassicas in side by side tests and have found that deer either love them all or snub their noses at them regardless of where you purchase the seed from. As with all seed involved with foodplotting there is plenty of hype and expensive advertising going on to try to convince plotters that they have they best product.

Save your money and purchase brassica seed without a "big buck" on the bag... ;)
Here's a selection of short season brassicas that I have used with great success:

Tyfon Forage Brassica
Dwarf Essex Rape Seed
Purple Top Turnips
Appin forage turnip
Barkant Forage Turnip
Barnapoli Rape Seed
Bonar Rape Seed
Pasja Hybrid Brassica"Welter mix" of the above...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/WelterMix.jpg

Roots...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/WelterRoots.jpg

Many of those seeds you will find in commercial mixes but I call Welters and order them by the pound for roughly $3 a pound.

Welter Seed (http://www.welterseed.com/productItems.aspx?id=3&org=0)

Maxi-Rack Seeds (http://www.maxirack.com/poundseeds.html)

nannyslayer carries these seeds in a mix called "bullseye" and they perform very well!

Winfred Brassica
Hunter BrassicaThe Bullseye mix

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/MaxiBELeft.jpg

No roots because they are mostly forage hybrids

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BRRoots.jpg

Biologic Maximum conatins these brassica seeds:


29.69% Biogroa Rape
24.70% Makiraki Rape
19.70% A3 Rape
14.71% Kurow Rape
9.70% York Globe TurnipMaximum Tops

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BiologicMax10-10.jpg

Maximum Roots

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BMRoots.jpg

Tecomate Ultra Forage Mix contains the following: (note the clover in this mix didn't have a chance making this mix a poor choice!)
49.97% T-Raptor Rape
14.73% Arrowleaf Clover
9.96% Lacerta Chicory
9.90% Mammouth Red Clover
9.88% Forage Feast Chicory

Tecomate Tops

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tecomate10-10.jpg

No roots because there no turnips in this mix and NO clover or chicory survived making that seed a waste

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TecomateRoots.jpg

The WTI Wintergreen seed arrive late even though I ordered it all the same time and didn't amount to much planted early Sept.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/IWCnBrassicas.jpg

Here's an example of a long season brassica mix:

Long Season Brassica Seed (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=248)


Cooper Seeds (http://www.cooperseeds.com/pages/deer/fwindividual.html) has both Winton Swedes and Kestrel Kale

Adams Briscoe Seed (http://www.abseed.com/graphics/seedlist/prices.pdf) carries long season brassicas as well. :)

Maris Kestrel is a full maturity leafy kale variety with short stems (150-220 days to grazing). Kestrel was bred to have a low-fiber stem with high digestibility.

Major Plus is a full maturity swede variety (from 160 days), and is characterized by its yellow-fleshed broad elliptical shaped bulb with red skin color. Major Plus is a new generation swede with high yield potential. 84% of its yield is in the bulb, providing very high energy.

Winton is a new generation late maturing swede noted for high yield potential and excellent disease resistance. Winton reaches full maturity from 180 days. With high leaf yield and excellent animal preference, Winton offers extended grazing for all livestock including dairy, beef, sheep and deer. Winton is characterized by its white-fleshed bulb, bronze skin color, and high leaf yield.

TYFON is intended for use as a high quality feed source for mid-summer or late autumn use when other cool season forages are slowing down. Tyfon should be planted at least 60 days before the grazing season to allow for adequate growth and re-growth. Plant in the spring or the fall (or in some cases farmers have planted in in the spring and then re-planted in the fall to keep a constant supply of lush nutritious forage all through the growing season).These are pics of various brassica varieties in my own plots, with Dwarf Essex Rape being one that is most commonly used in seed mixes and the very first one chosen by deer in my brassica plantings.
Dwarf Essex Rape

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DERcloseup.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Dwarfessexrape.jpg

Appin Forage Turnip

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Appinforageturnip.jpg

Barkant Forage Turnip

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BarkantForageTurnip.jpg


http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BarkantForageTurnip2.jpg

Bonar Rape

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BonarRape-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BonarRape2.jpg

Pasja Hybrid Brassica


http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/PasjaHybridBrassica.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/PasjaHybridBrassica2.jpg

Tyfon Forage Brassica

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TyfonForageBrassica.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TyfonForageBrassica2.jpg

Purple Top Turnips - remember turnips provide late winter feed via the "root" so early grazing of the tops may not be as notable.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/PurpleTopTurnips.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/PurpleTop2.jpg

Planting and growing brassicas

Brassicas require plenty of nitrogen so plan on tilling in 150#'s per acre of 46-0-0 urea (46#'s of actual nitrogen per hundred pounds) Urea must be tilled in shortly after applying or before a heavy rain or you will lose most of it thru denitrication.

Brassicas DO NOT like sandy dry soil, they prefer moist loamy soils for optimum growth.

Triple 19 is a fertilizer combination of NITROGEN, POTASSIUM, AND PHOSPHORUS The "19"just means there is 19#'s in every 100#'s or 19%. There are common fertilizer mixes such as 6-24-24, 12-12-12, 19-19-19 46-0-0 etc. etc.

All the "numbers" tell you is how much of each of the 3 main elements are in a bag of fertilizer. If you buy it in bulk from an ag supply source, they can mix any combination your require. This is why we take soil tests so we know what nutrients our soils may be lacking and what might be required for the crop we'll be growing.

Sometimes you can buy fertilizers on sale at Wal-Mart, Menards, TSC and others...fertilizer is fertilizer as long as you understand what is in it.

DO NOT apply lawn fertilize containing week killers over the top of brassicas...it contains 2-4D and will kill them. Mix it in the soil and it won't be a problem. (cheaper to buy it without weedkiller however...)

Triple 19 is a good all around mix of equal amounts of N-P-K but brassicas prefer plenty of nitrogen so that's where the "300#'s" comes in. Using 300 pounds will give you 57 pounds of each element. You could get away with a 100#'s of 46-0-0 urea which is just nitrogen and does not contain the P and K elements.

at $20-25 a 50# bag, 300#'s could easily run $120-150 per acre which makes 15 bucks worth of red clover seed seem like a pretty darn good deal... ;)

Here are some links to help you understand a little more about fertilizer and what the "numbers" mean.


About Fertilizer (http://www.tfi.org/factsandstats/fertilizer.cfm)

NITROGEN, POTASSIUM, AND PHOSPHORUS (http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek/AgriFert/agrifert.html)

Fertilizer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_fertilizer)

Nutrient Topics (http://extension.agron.iastate.edu/soilfertility/nutrienttopics/samplingtesting.html) Use the drop window to explore all types of nutrient topics and explore NPK topics including soil testing.

Nutrient Cycling & Maintaining Soil Fertility (http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/M1193.html)

Fertility Management in Organic Crop Systems (http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/soilwater/soilfert/fbd01s05.html)

Nutrient Considerations for Diversified Cropping Systems (http://agron.scijournals.org/cgi/content/full/94/2/186)

Soil Test Interpretation Guide (http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/ec/ec1478.pdf)

Soil Fertility Management (http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/7249.pdf)

Mind Your P's and K's (http://www.noble.org/Ag/Soils/PSandKS/Index.htm)

You Can't Afford Not to Lime (http://www.noble.org/Ag/Soils/AffordNotToLime/index.html)

Brassicas for Forage-Brassica species for forage include
rape, kale, swedes and turnips. Brassicas can be used to
break up an old pasture to be planted with an improved
species and/or to extend the grazing period into the late
fall. They are frequently planted after small grains have
been harvested. A total of 75 pounds of nitrogen is
suggested to produce good yields. Follow the
recommendations in ( P & K Recommendations (http://web1.msue.msu.edu/msue/imp/modf1/visuals/table11.htm) ) for phosphate and potash.
Apply up to 30 pounds of nitrogen, 50 pounds of phosphate
and 50 pounds of potash in the row at planting.
Additional fertilizer should be broadcast and
incorporated before planting. Brassicas also prefer a PH in the 6.5/6.8 range so be sure to soil test and apply lime as needed.

I prefer to till down red or berseem clover or a worn out white clover patch so that the brassicas can take advantage of nitrogen released from the decomposing legumes.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tillingdownclover.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BrassicaSeedbed.jpg

During the final tillage process is a perfect time to incorporate fertlizer such as this triple 13

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Triple137S.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/FertilizerSpread.jpg

Eventually the tilled clover looks like this:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TilledReadytoplant.jpg

Brassica seed is tiny like clover seed so I use a small handheld grass seeder set on the smallest setting

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/PlantingSupplies.jpg

Sow 3-6#'s per acre of brassica seed...use caution to NOT over seed!! :shock:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SmallStuff.jpg

We don't want to bury the tiny seed so it's best to cultipack (or use a piece of chain link fence or a big plank)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Packingtheseed.jpg

Dual Magnum II pre-emergence herbicide can be used to control weeds:

Dual Magnum II label for brassicas (http://www.datcp.state.wi.us/arm/agriculture/pest-fert/pesticides/pdf/WI-07000106-14-07_final.pdf)

DAIKON RADISH, GARDEN BEET, PARSNIP, RADISH, TURNIP, RUTABAGA

Make a single broadcast application of Dual MAGNUM at 0.67 - 1.0 pt./A preplant incorporated,
preplant surface applied, or preemergence to clean-tilled soil. Use lower rates on coarsetextured
soils and higher rates on fine-textured soils. If the soil organic matter is 20% or greater
(muck soils), use Dual MAGNUM at a rate up to 1.33 pt./A. In general, the risk of crop injury
from the use of Dual MAGNUM is greater from preplant incorporated than from preplant nonincorporated
or preemergence applications. Irrigate after application to activate the herbicide if
rainfall is not expected, but use only 0.5 inches of water to incorporate the herbicide.

Precautions:
1. Excessive irrigation will increase the risk of crop injury.
2. Mechanical incorporation of Dual MAGNUM will increase the risk of crop injury.
3. It is recommended not use Dual MAGNUM if the planting operation creates a furrow or
trough over the seed-row into which rain or irrigation water will collect and thus concentrate
the herbicide over the row.
4. Not recommended on coarse textured soils with less than 1.5 % OM, as use in these soils
increases the risk of crop injury.
5. In soils with greater than 10% organic matter, weed control may be reduced.
Restrictions:
1. Make only one application of Dual MAGNUM per crop.
2. Do not apply more than 1.33 pt./A of Dual MAGNUM per crop.
3. Harvest these crops at normal timing.Then broadcast the seed and re-pack to cover it.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Equipment/Smoothnready.jpg

Eventually the tiny seeds begin to pop up, usually in 10-14 days depending on soil moisture

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5001257.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TinyBrassica.jpg

With adequate moisture they grow quickly

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TecomateBrassicas.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/8-25BE.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Aug2508Brassicas.jpg

Deer often prefer brassicas after they have been "sweetened" by a frost but mine start on them long before that! :o

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BENipped.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/MaximumNipped.jpg

On good soil with plenty of moisture and nitrogen brassicas can look like this in as little as 6 weeks!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas9-15.jpg

This plot contains all of varieties and brand names but can you tell which is which?? ;)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas9-15.jpg

One one farm the deer decimate my brassicas early on, often well before hunting season... :roll:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassica4.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassica3.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicagrazing.jpg

You can top dress some nitrogen on just before a rain to give them a boost just before hunting season. If you use lawn fertilizer however use caution NOT to use any with weedkiller!! 2-4D will kill brassicas in the blink of an eye...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Fertlizer9-21.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Grazedhard-1.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Fertilizebrassicas9-21.jpg

This is after top dressing N

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/10-16Brassicas.jpg

I do not reccomend mixes or mixing clover or cereal grains with brassicas, one or the other will dominate, suffucating the other crop.

These brassicas are up to my knee and totally dominate and the red clover in the Tecomate mix never had a chance! Why pay to throw seed away??

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SuperthickBrassicas.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TecomateRoots.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BiologicMax10-10.jpg

In this case I tried adding berseem clover to a long season spring brassica planting but the berseem quickly overtook the slower growing kale and swedes

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/KaleandBrassica.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Swede8-21.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Longseasonbrassica9-21.jpg

In this case oats dominated the brassicas

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Oatsinbrassicapatch.jpg

Here they have overtaken a mix of rye and oats, so I encourage planting them seperate and rotating crops each year.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/9-1brassicas10-10.jpg

Brassicas are reletively easy to broadcast into standing soybeans...this pic shows baby brassicas popping up in the moist soil

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BrassicasinSoybeans.jpg

A few weeks later they are growing nicely

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Sep1brassicasinbeans.jpg

They can also be broadcast into standing corn

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06205.jpg

Purple Tops work very well broadcast into standing corn near the end of summer

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicaincorn1.jpg

This works better on corn that has not had heavy applications of atrazine!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicaincorn2.jpg

Wide rows work a little better but brassica seed is inexpensive at 2-3 bucks a pound through Welters so give it a shot!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicaincorn3.jpg

If grasses invade your brassicas they are easily controlled by spraying Select 2-EC (Arrow = generic) herbicide at 6-8 ounces per acre along with crop oil.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Select2EC.jpg

Here you can see the dying grass after I nuked it with Select

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SprayedwSelect.jpg

Brassicas can take some hard frosts but when temps drop into the single digits they start to wilt as this pic taken November 25th shows.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/11-21brassicaplot.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Frozenturnips.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Nolight.jpg

Plenty of turnip roots will ensure winter feed!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Turniproot-1.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/AppinTurnip.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Pulledroot2.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Roots2.jpg

If deer learn to eat brassicas they won't last long and mine are usually gone on one of my farms long before Christmas

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicaeaten.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/FrozenBrassicaleaf.jpg

While those at the other farm remain untouched

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/FrozenbrassicasatHome.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Bigturnip.jpg

Eventually even those get devoured when the weather gets bad enough

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/12-25-08Brassicas.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/FeedingonTurnips.jpg
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/12-25Brassicas.jpg

If you haven't tried brassicas before, give them a shot but don't "bet the farm" on them until you see how your deer react to them.
Sometimes it takes several years for deer to react to them depending on available food sources.


For a first time test, 3#'s of Dwarf Essex rape and 3#'s of Purple Top Turnips is a great and inexpensive combination. Seed light, fertilize heavily and plant late July to mid August. Till,fertilize, pack, seed, re-pack and watch em grow! :)

Diseases and PestsPlanting brassicas year after year in the same plot can result in disease so rotating brassicas with clover or cereal grains is the safe practice.

Brassica pests and diseases (http://www.wrightson.co.nz/assets/seeds/new%20zealand/wrightson%20turf/PDF3.page01.pdf)

Brassica Diseases (http://www.agriseeds.co.nz/brassica-diseases.htm)

Brassica Pests (http://www.agriseeds.co.nz/brassica-pests.htm)

Allelopathic suppression of weeds

Brassicas have a unique ability to produce allelopathic chemicals in their root system that can suppress weed growth by inhibiting the ability of small seeds to germinate.

This also means that some small seeds like clover may also be suppressed so it is important to understand a little about this subject because sometimes frost seeding clover into a stand of winter killed brassicas may prove futile. It depends on the amount of growth left so if deer eat the brassicas to the ground leaving little or no root growth the fall before, there may be little or no allelopathic affects.

If deer do not eat the brassicas until late winter the affects may be strong! It is usually best to deep till the brassicas early in the spring and then re-till a week or so later and then seed an annual clover to follow the brassicas if they were uneaten.

Allelopathic suppression of weeds: a new field in need of attention (http://www.dawn.com/2001/12/31/ebr11.htm)

Allelopathic inhibition of germination by brassicas (http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/full/91/2/285)

Allelopathy: A Review (http://www.colostate.edu/Depts/Entomology/courses/en570/papers_2002/mccollum.htm)

I use a three way rotation of clover, brassicas and a winter rye/peas/forage radish and red clover combination that allows me to rotate all of those crops to use both smothering and allelopathic chemicals to control weeds with little or no herbicide use.

I plant those three crops in strips within any size field or plot and rotate thru the strips each year. This also allows me to lower my fertilizer needs because the legumes fix nitrogen and the brassica and winter rye roots store and re-release the N the following spring... Crop Rotation
Year 1 B ---> M ----C
Year 2 M ---> B ----C
Year 3 B ---> M ----C
Year 4 M ---> B ----C (plant white clover with the rye mix "M")
Year 5 M---> B ---> C ---> (the previous year clover planting becomes the new -C-)This is kind of a good explanation of a crop rotation between white clover (C), brassicas (B) and the winter rye/oats/forage peas/forage radish/ red or white clover mix (M)

Each year the brassicas and mix are rotated while the perennial white clover remains as is but when the white clover starts to thin and needs to be rotated we rotate ALL the strips.

To prepare we start our white clover with rye the fall preceding the complete rotation, then in year 5 we turn under the old clover strips and plant brassicas. We move the rye mix to the brassicas and of course the previous rye strips are now perennial white clover.

A 5 year rotation is shown but it could be a 3 or 4 year rotation if for some reason the clover thinned earlier. ALL of the strips or blocks would have some type of clover in them during the summer months (brassicas tilled under and planted to annual clovers and red or white clovers planted with the rye)

Under this rotation our soils are NEVER bare an unproductive expect for a few days while seeds germinate. Deer are NEVER without feed...year around! We always have all of our favorite crops/plants in any plots and yet disease and pests will not be a problem.

Weeds are far less likely to be a problem either because these crops either suffocate weeds or prevent them from growing....:)

[dbltree]

One caution. We have had some problems with germination when planting brassicas in the fall on areas that were planted in corn. Check the label on the herbicide you used in the spring to see how long the carry over is.



That's a good caution...won't work so good if Atrazine was used

In my case it was all RR crops, so no worries about herbicide. Most soybeans these days are RR so that's why overseeding can work in them (notice I didn't promise it WILL work)

Forage Rape (http://plato.wilmington.edu/faculty/tstilwel/Crop_Museum/CropDetail/Rape/living_crop_museum_Forage_Annual_Rape.htm)

Forage turnips (http://plato.wilmington.edu/faculty/tstilwel/Crop_Museum/CropDetail/Forage%20Turnip/living_crop_museum_Forage_Annual_ForageTurnip.htm)

Forage radish (http://www.cedarmeadowfarm.com/FarmResearch/ForageRadish.html)

[dbltree]

Just a note for anybody ordering seed from Welter Seed, they are out of Barnapoli Rape Seed.
They do charge $2.00 for each kind or type of seed that you order under 25# since it requires hand measuring/packing small amounts.

I did some checking on the QDM forum and it sounds like the Shotplot mix varies widely on the % of each type, why I'm not sure. Rape seed is often cheaper so that may be part of it. It's made up of 3 different types of Rape and one type of turnip, several of which Welter also offers. (just to give you an idea as far as mixing)

In the past I just bought pre-packaged seed and planted...never gave a thought to variety...just "turnip" seed. That's why I'm trying some of everything including mixing it and planting each one by itself.

With the high deer density that I have, anything is possible. they may mow it all, pick and choose (now that would be a first at my place ) or ignore it all...highly unlikley.

I plan to test some liquid fertilizer on part of it, till some urea in part of it and try some slow release urea (the type used on lawns) for some of the areas I overseed.

We've had pretty good rains lately so I'm hoping for enough moisture to get it germinated, after that brassicas tolerate dry weather fairly well.

Here are links to other sources for seed also, but make sure you check cost and shipping. I had about 45# shipped from Welter for 7 bucks.

Mossy Oak maximum (http://www.mossyoakbiologic.com/products/default.asp?id=6&section=deer_annual)


Maxi-Rack (http://www.maxirack.com/prodserv.html)


Tecomate Seeds (http://www.tecomate.com/products.cfm)


Shot Plot (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp;jsessionid=4IF233R0TGJZPTQSNOKCCO4OCJVZOI WE?id=0031733415429a&navCount=0&cmCat=srchdx&cm_ve n=srchdx&cm_ite=srchdx&CM_REF=&_requestid=20799)

[ironwood]

Welter delivered my order this week in 20 hour. No kidding! At my steps in 20 hours. That is some kind of service.

[dbltree]

If anyone is going to till a plot for brassicas (which is best) then 300# of triple 19 per acre would be a good bet to feed your brassicas. Disc, drag or till it in prior to planting.
When overseeding into standing crops, the urea (nitrogen) needs a 1/2" of rain within 24-48 hours or it will be largely lost, one way around this is to use slow release lawn fertilizer. It's treated to keep it from being lost to denitrification.
Lawn fertilizer is very expensive but for small over seeded plots it might be feasable.

I want to caution anyone doing this, to NOT purchase lawn fertilizer with weed killer in it!! It contains 2-4D and if applied to growing brassicas and soybeans...it will kill them!

[dbltree]

I seeded about half of my brassicas today. Worked up part of my "deer pasture" (AKA corn field) using my rear tine tiller, seeded with a hand seeder and packed the seed in with a cultipacker.
I planted an area of each variety and marked them with a metal garden marker to see what each type looks like and if deer prefer one over another.
I mixed the rest of it and ended up seeding it pretty heavy. Rates call for 3-8# per acre but I'm thinking I put on more like 12!

I started out to do the headlands which never got planted to anything but beans...as you can see, the deer didn't leave any trace.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/medium/771Unplanted_headland.JPG


The rear tine tiller makes it a one pass job

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/medium/771Ready_to_Plant.JPG

My son thinks farmin's fun (he drove the tractor while I walked to and fro putting the seed on

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/medium/771S5000403.JPG


Pretty soon we had the makins of a "turnip patch"

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/medium/771Turnip_Patch.JPG

The Brassica seed from Welter Seed and Honey

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/medium/771Turnip_n_Rape_seed.JPG

It's pretty small stuff! I mixed it all together in a 5 gallon bucket.


http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/medium/771Small_Stuff.JPG

Planting supplies...I used a small grass seeder set on the smallest setting it had. I used the coffee can to fill the seeder. The seed is impossible to see when it hits the ground...so I tried to overlap and walked crossways over most of it as well.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/medium/771Planting_Supplies.JPG


After broadcasting the seed I used a small cultipacker to pack the seed into the soil. Brassica seed is larger then clover seed or I would have packed before seeding as well.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/medium/771Packing_the_seed.JPG

Now a shower would be nice (hopefully Skully will help me out here

[dbltree]

I want to see a picture or two of that in the coming months! Maggs



Hopefully it will turn out better then the corn they completely destroyed

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/medium/771Total_destruction.JPG

and now I'm going to be singing the "Green Acres" tune all day!

[dbltree]

That doesn't appear to be an OSHA approved hitch

Going down a steep hill that would be an "OH SH!# approved hitch!

I didn't get time to spray this morning so don't expect any rain today, I'll see what I can get done tonight!



Hey now...that's a farmer approved hitch! (and it is pretty scary when it's "chasing" you down hill

I planted some more "patches" on my other place today...nothing like eating dust all day

Reminds me why I prefer frost seeding....

Just a shot of tilling up sod and I did overseed some into the beans in the background. Calling for rain...but a little "insurance" would be appreciated Skully!

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/513/medium/771Workin_up_sod.jpg

[dbltree]

Mine was an 8 footer but I had it cut down so that it wouldn't hang over the edge of my trailer so bad. Those 4 footers would have been perfect for most food plotters.
Some times I see them setting by the road for sale or often in the weeds at an implement dealer.
I bought this one for a $100 and it sure is handy

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cultipacker-1.jpg

[ironwood]

I got my 9 acres of your mix(doubltree) planted just ahead of last nights rains. I hope this mix does better than my beans did. Speaking of which when I got the PH owned drill from the county the front hopper was full of bean seed and I just let it go right in with the brasica mix. I am not sure how much rain I got but just south west they where reporting .67. It seemed to be heavier as you went NE so I am hopeful. Thanks for all of the help.

[dbltree]

10 days since planting and the baby brassicas are up! :)

These are pics of the last ones I planted. Didn't use the cultipacker on these, just let the tiller "freewheel" and went back over them to hopefully press them into the soil. These pics are of plots where nothing has ever been planted, just sod which I killed with Roundup before tilling.

Holy Cats! Guess I got it thick enough! :D

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicasonsod.jpg

Very poor ground with no fertilizer as of yet...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Poorground.jpg

I'll be able to "observe" deer usage of these plots thru the fall and winter... ;)
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/turnipsintilledsod.jpg

Right next to a new alfalfa seeding...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Edgeplanting.jpg

Leading to a hidden plot...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/HiddenPlot.jpg

It's a little shaded so time will tell how it does...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/ShadedPlot.jpg

I overseeded some into the soybeans to see how they will do. Not coming up as thick and were slower to germinate...but they are coming up! :way:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BabyBrassicasinBeans.jpg

Will check on my main plot tomorrow and see how each variety is doing in the marked plots as well.
We got an inch here and 3/4" at the other farm last night

[dbltree]

I checked out my first brassica plots today...stuff is going wild there too

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicasontilledandpackedground.jpg

It looks to be growing much faster because of the heavy dose of fertilizer that the corn and beans never got a chance to use

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/August4thBrassicas.jpg


I took a look at the individual marked plots where I planted each variety separately and the Bonar Rape had almost no germination yet, while the Purple Top Turnips and Dwarf Essex Rape were the thickest.

Could prove interesting...if I had mixed it all I wouldn't have know the difference

[dbltree]

Took a few more pics of one of my brassica plots today including some of the test plots...and some early but interesting results

This is a pic of some brassica seed that landed on killed sod, but not tilled. Stuff is fairly easy to seed and as Ironwoods pics show, a perfect seed for no-tilling!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicasinsod1.jpg

This plot had plenty of fertilizer on it already and is going gangbusters!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BrassicaMixAug23.jpg

This is a view over looking the "test plots" and one can hardly tell a difference:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Viewoftestplots.jpg

I need to take a notebook and pen to write them down as I take pics, but one that stood out was the Dwarf Essex Rape. It was being hammered hard already!!

It's difficult to tell from the pic but it was being grazed hard while the others on either side of it were barely nipped.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DwarfEssexRape.jpg

Not sure what happened with the Bonar Rape but it's very thin, perhaps I didn't have the hand seeder opened far enough or else it just had very poor germination

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BonarRape.jpg

Brassicas are normally grazed the heaviest after a good frost, so it's interesting to see that they are feeding on it already. It's also easy to see why planting a mix that will appeal to them both early and late fall and the Purple Tops to keep them busy in the early winter, is important

[dbltree]

I've got some smaller plots here by the house that are on tilled sod. No fertilizer and kinda droughty, poor soil.
I have 4-5 plots but two are split by a small waterway, so I'm trying the foliar fertilizer on one side and some slow release urea (lawn fertilizer) on the other side.
I put on the liquid today and will spred the urea tomorrow in hopes it will rain Friday nite or Sat.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TwinPatchs.jpg

Treated with Coron nitrogen 8/24


http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BeforeCoron.jpg

Dry Urea 8/25

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BeforeUrea.jpg

Tools of the trade:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Toolsoftrade.jpg

I'll keep you posted to see if either kills it or cures it http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[dbltree]

Here's a look at some of the brassicas that I did some "nitrogen tests" on. Since two of them are side by side I figured it would a perfect test. What I didn't count on was a dose of Roundup being applied to one half

They had to spray the beans again because all the wet weather had weeds coming up again. I guess the applicator figured he better spray those "funny looking weeds" next to them as well

The Coron treated plot looked greener and had pretty decent growth

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/CoronTreated.jpg

Whats left of the urea treated plot looks good, guess I'll replant it now.
Guess that's what I get for teasing Ironwood about using RUP instead of foliar fertilizer

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/NukedwithRUP.jpg

This is the little hidden/shaded plot. Sure a big difference in growth. The soil is very poor and it drys out quickly. I'm sure it would be better off in white clover but I need to get some lime on it first.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/HiddenPatch.jpg

You can see the beginning stages and compare growth of these plots by checking the previous posts. Hope to check my other brassica plots in a few days also.

[OneCam]

Here's a Brassica Mix plot (very similiar if not the same as DoubleTree's) we planted on Aug 16.

We tilled under Brome and applied 100lbs of nitrogen and planted the mix at 2-3 pounds per acre with a Brillion planter.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3023/157Brillion.jpg


Here is the plot on Sept 2 - looks kind of thin
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3023/157Brassica1.jpg

Sept 8 - plot is starting to fill-in nicely /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3023/157Brassica2.jpg

[dbltree]

planted the mix at 2-3 pounds per acre with a Brillion planter.



Whooooweee! Niceee planter!

Good lookin' plot Chris!

They are really eating mine now, pic is plot at 7 weeks.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tonsoffeed.jpg


Not sure if you can see in this pic but they are hitting it pretty hard. Suppose to like it better after a frost but they seem to like it just fine right now!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/HeavyUse.jpg

I planted a little patch this past week with some rye and peas. Kinda curious to see if it will amount to anything planted this late?

[OneCam]

Here's a 5 week update ... the plot is filling in nicely

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3023/157Brassic3.jpg

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3023/157Brassic4.jpg

[dbltree]

Decided to go take a walk and check on my "turnip patch". Should have had camera at the ready and sneaked in cause the whole field exploded when I topped the hill

I did catch a few that couldn't see what the fuss was about but my little camera doesn't have much of a zoom

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Deerinbrassicas.jpg

The whole field is starting to show the effect of heavy grazing now...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Wholefield.jpg

Tops are getting "shortened" at a rapid rate...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Moregrazing.jpg

The root varieties are starting to develop

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Turniproot.jpg

There sure do like the Dwarf Essex Rape!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Dwarfessexrape.jpg

Closeup:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DERcloseup.jpg

There is plenty of standing crops around and we haven't had a good frost yet...I can only imagine what they'll do to it after the crops are gone and cold weather sweetens the patch.
I posted all the different variety pics here, although the only main differences are between the rape and turnips. All are being hit hard now...

More Brassicas (http://www.qdmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=6144)

[dbltree]

Now that hunting season is here I won't be checking these brassicas anymore. I took this pic this afternoon and I sure wish I would have put an exclusion cage in there

Check out some of the previous pics and you can see they have grazed it down to 1/2 what it was!

Any of you that have planted brassicas this year, please post pics if you can thru out the fall. I'd like to follow progress on some of the plots with less "intense" feeding pressure.

Are they hitting yours now? A little...a lot? Curious if they will hit it more after a frost? I'm afraid I can't tell anything from mine except they have been grazing it very hard and they may literally graze it to the ground before we even get a frost!

Compare this pic to the one at 7 weeks!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Oct1Brassica2.jpg

They have much of it down to just stems!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Oct1brassicas.jpg

Is there anything my deer won't eat??

[OneCam]

Here's a 7 week update ... they are not eating it yet
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3023/157Brassicas_10-3.jpg

[dbltree]

I have noticed one thing...brassicas don't deal with extreme dry weather on poor soil. Glad to get some rain!

Most of them did fine but some spots literally died out in a few small areas...something to keep in mind when planting brassicas...they need good soil moisture but not wet feet or soil that easily dries out.

These are at the lower edge of a small garden sized plot and had more moisture:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Oct7brassicas.jpg

Same plot but on a slope and poor soil. Most of them died in that area but we hadn't had rain in weeks along with 95 deg. temps

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Droughtstricken.jpg

[ironwood]

I mentioned earlier that the deer where pulling purpletop turnips already. Here are a few photos. It also appeared to me that the turnips where the only thing left from the mix. Lots and lots of turnips and very little of anything else. I didn't take time to look all areas of the 10 or so acres over, this is in one of the harder hit corners. The far photos are the same mix but I didn't take time to drive down and look close.

I put the HJ boot trick in there to show you that I too have small feet.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/54710-09-06_321.jpg http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/54710-09-06_322.jpg http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/54710-09-06_320.jpg http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/54710-09-06_319.jpg http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/54710-09-06_323.jpg http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/54710-09-06_324.jpg

[dbltree]

I put the HJ boot trick in there to show you that I too have small feet.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/54710-09-06_324.jpg





Turnips look good but you need some switchgrass in those fields!

[ironwood]

I just closed on this place 10-1-06. The brome will be gone after it comes out of this program in October of 08. I really do not have a firm plan in place for this ground. One thing is for sure and that is that a crop rotation would beat the snot out of this brome for wild life benefit.

[ironwood]

Paul, here's a buffer and a CP25 over on the other place. Tall grass down low and a shorter mix up high. Man it was beautiful this year with many blackeyed susans. I wish I could be out there everyday. Maybe the new place will look like this in a few years.
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/54710-09-06_311.jpg http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/54710-09-06_318.jpg

[dbltree]

Paul, here's a buffer and a CP25 over on the other place. Tall grass down low and a shorter mix up high. Man it was beautiful this year with many blackeyed susans. I wish I could be out there everyday. Maybe the new place will look like this in a few years.




Beautiful! I feel better now:)

[Danno]

What do these plots look like now? I'm thinking of putting a plot of a some kind of brassicas in for my Dad. He's 75 and we'll be building a permanant blind and the plot will be on the edge of a bedding area and with a corn file behind. We want to set it up so he has a good chance of pulling some deer to the plot during the Illinois gun seasons. Although he will probably hunt some crossbow too. Any other suggestions would be helpful. This will be our first attempt at a food plot. Dad farmed for 50 years so he does has some experience planting stuff, including turnips. When I mentioned this idea he had some saying about "wet or dry plant turnips July 25". Anything to that?

[dbltree]

Dad farmed for 50 years so he does has some experience planting stuff, including turnips. When I mentioned this idea he had some saying about "wet or dry plant turnips July 25". Anything to that?



I'd say your Dad knows what he's talking about ;)

I hope to check my main plot in the next week or so. I've tried to stay out of it during hunting season, but they had been killing it since September.

The pic below...they have not touched but it is surrounded by alfalfa, rye and oats and it remains to be seen if they will eat this patch later in the winter.


http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Turnips11-2.jpg

Availabilityof other food sources and the "safety" of the plot (is it hidden) has a lot to do with it.

Often it appears that deer may need to "learn" to like brassicas which might take several seasons.

I can tell you that oats and rye next to a blind will be irresistible no matter how much other feed is available.

These deer are scarcely 10 yards from my blind eating oats that are very nearly frozen off now.

Note in the foreground it is bare...I had brassicas there but several weeks of extreme dry weather and heat killed them on this hillside.

They do much better on moist soils with higher PH.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Hunting/Closeup.jpg

Whenever possible plant several items in case one fails, or deer prefer one over another.

A blind is an excellent place to observe what they like...just be fore you put em in the freezer

[dbltree]

These pics were taken today Dec. 12th:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DecTurnip.jpg

Frost has really wilted the plants down:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/FrozenTurnip.jpg

Big ole turnips though

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Turnip12-12.jpg

The Rape is still fairly green compared to the turnips:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DecRape.jpg

Hope to take some pics of the larger plot later this week since that plot was grazed pretty hard.

[dbltree]

Well if you go back thru the picks in this brassica thread...you would never imagine what they look like now!

Gone! Completely, totally eaten to the ground! :eek:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Decbrassicas.jpg

No leaves, no roots...no nothing but little stems...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas12-15.jpg

No one would ever know I had a a beautiful patch of brassicas here

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DevouredBrassicas.jpg

You can see by the pics at the home place where the deer never touched them...they grew big roots and leaves...

Nothing left here but evidence the "food plot raiders were there...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Nothinleft.jpg

No need to worry about waiting for a frost to "sweeten" the brassicas at my place!
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/ViewofRyenBrassicainDec.jpg

Anybody else check yours lately? Share some late season pics when you can...

[Central Iowa]

I watched a brassica plot last night. The rape was still a little green and was being eaten but the turnips were getting pounded. They were pulling the bulbs eating them first and working down to the forage without setting them down. Pretty neat hearing those bulbs pop when they took the first bite. Sorry no picts my head was where it normally is and fogot.

[dbltree]

Sorry no pics my head was where it normally is and forgot.



We'll let that slide for now Travis...but next time were expecting an aerial photo and a map... ;)

Welter Seed (http://www.welterseed.com/productItems.aspx?id=3&org=0) gets their brassica seed thru Ampac Seed (http://www.ampacseed.com/brassicas.htm)

and they have a great article on growing brassicas as well as descriptions between the different types.

Brassica Information (http://www.ampacseed.com/brassicas1.htm)

Welters newsletter notes that brassicas could use as high as 150-200# of nitrogen per acre for maximum production!

Ironwood's post on Turnips in Corn (http://www.iowawhitetail.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=21&Number=155644&Searchpage=1&Main=16914&Words=turnips+in+corn+ironwood&topic=0&Search=true#Post155644) sure looks like a great idea to try this next year for a "double crop"...

Here's a few pics of ironwoods "Purple Top turnips in corn"....

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/54710-09-06_316.jpg

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/54710-09-06_317.jpg

This is Bonar Rape done the same as the PT turnips...

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/54710-09-06_314.jpg

Kind of interesting to go back and look at comments like:



I guess I am not sold on the whole brassica thing so I am interested to see how the deer like your plots.



Hard to believe they went from this:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BrassicaMixAug23.jpg

to this:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Decbrassicas.jpg

It's doggone hard to get something to last until after New Years...so if any of you have a little less of a "deer problem" then I...let us know how your brassicas ended up late in the season.

Mean while we'll still be holding out hope for a report (with PICTURES) from Central Iowa

[Central Iowa]

Sat on a turnip plot last night and it was getting hammered. This was a secluded plot off a bedding area. The deer all showed up about 3:30 and left after a little buck to doe ratio balancing. ;)

This plot was really pulling them in.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3071/1106TurnipsSized1.jpg

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3071/1106TurnipsSized2.jpg

[Thayer]

Awesome stuff there...I would love to actually put that into a powerpoint and put it on our website or use it in one of our foodplotting seminars...

Thanks for taking the time to put that on the web.

[dbltree]

Now that it's turned cold and snowy...how is everyone's brassica plots?

Mine has been gone for months so there are no roots to ""root" up

Timberspirit posted this pic of his plot where the deer have been "hogging" thru it

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TimberspiritBrassicapic.jpg


Have you thought about what you will follow your brassica plot with this spring?

As CI noted brassicas should be rotated (http://www.iowawhitetail.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Board=21&Number=176700&Searchpage=1&Main=18477&Words=disease+rotated+brassicas+Central+Iowa&topic=0&Search=true#Post176700) to keep from having disease problems.

Either way it will be a bare plot this spring so even if you go back to back with more brassicas (which won't be seeded until late July/early August) you need something there or you'll just have a "mess a weeds"

I'm going to plant buckwheat (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=220) on some of it in very late spring.

Some of it I'm going to plant oatlage (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=225).

In both cases I'll till them under for fall food plots.

I'm going to test some by planting brassicas every year after spring planting a cover crop...just to see what happens.

The others I'll rotate and only plant brassicas every other year.

Share some late season brassica pics if you have any ;)

[dbltree]

I checked some small plots that unlike the larger field...never got touched. Not so much as a nibble....until now..

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/WinterBrassicas.jpg

Funny how snow and cold have a way of "encouraging" them to try something new..

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/01-23-07Brassicas.jpg

These patches have rye and alfalfa on either side of them but the brassicas are the only thing they are digging thru the snow for...

Because I have two different farms and completely different situations I find myself running into both ends of the spectrum when it comes to feed and deer.

If I only had either one, I would have either swore that deer loved brassicas...or hated them...

It just proves that each landowner has to experiment on their own and see what works for them.

[ironwood]

I had great luck with the mix suggested at the start of this post last season and intend to order the same mix again this year. The time is closing in to be ready to get the seed in the ground.

[risto2351]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Tyfon Forage Brassica
Dwarf Essex Rape Seed
Purple Top Turnips
Appin forage turnip
Barkant Forage Turnip
Barnapoli Rape Seed
Bonar Rape Seed
Pasja Hybrid Brassica </div></div>

Ironwood,
Did you use all these in the mix that you used last year?

[ironwood]

I used six of them and I can't remember which one was omited. Most of them where gone early and only turnips remained for the late season attraction.

[norbecker]

I planted Bonar Rape last year and it did not come thru real well, I think i will plant a mix also. anyone have advice on 3 or 4 diffrent things to plan off the list above?

Has anyone tryed planting sugar beats?

[DOR]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I used six of them and I can't remember which one was omited. Most of them where gone early and only turnips remained for the late season attraction. </div></div>

How much per acre did you shell out for the seed??

[ironwood]

I planted 3.5 lbs of seed per acre. The was less than recommended by the seed company but others steered me that way for better turnip production. If I remember correctly the seed cost was around $8 an acre.

Purple top turnips would be my first choice from the above list.

[DOR]

How soon were they on the purple tops?

[ironwood]

As soon as there was a hard freeze they hit them hard. Just like other crops they cleaned out the inside corners and egdes near the woods first.

[risto2351]

Well after thousands of questions and PM's my fall plot of Brassicas and other varieties are in.

I was planning on planting them tomorrow 8-5-07 but my wife has been pretty insistent on me staying home and grilling out and swimming with friends.

Man I was thinking I really need to get these in and can not wait another week.
The ground was already tilled so I opted to do it today instead. I awoke at 6 and checked out the weather.
Looked like rain was coming and I definitely would get rained out.

I saw a very I mean very small window of hope and went for it. After the two hour trek raining all the way I was thinking I will never get these in.

Well as luck finally would have it it was not raining at my final destination point. I was able to cultipack, plant, spread fertilizer and recultipack rather quickly.
It was just starting to rain when I was finishing up. I even tried Ironwood's advise and planted some Purple Top Turnips and Dwarf Essex in the corn.
(The deer sure have the endrows of the corn already torn up.)

Saw two bucks, one doe, five toms and two broads of poults with ma.

What a perfect day.

I purchased a camera from QT on the way up because I forgot my digital at home.
After I take another 13 pictures hopefully I can post my plot from beginning to end.

"My clover is even starting to perk up. I was going to reseed but will take Daver's advice and frost seed this spring to help the existing clover."

All in all it was a perfect rainy day and it is still drizzling up there.

My end goal is to have a clover plot like Ghost and a Brassicas plot like OneCam and Dbltree. I am gunning for you guys. You have told me too many of your secrets.

Good luck guys with getting your plots in.

I hope it works out for all you like it has so far for me.

[risto2351]

Finally got the cd back. Luckily none of you hit me with the man law I keep hearing about.

Here is one of the two main food plots next to a clover plot. Did not get pictures of the other one yet. I am fertilizing with an ATV. Buddies broke down which you can see on the side.

8-4-07

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/1946151115-R1-16-25A_017.jpg

Next one is one of my hunting plots behind my barn.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/1946151115-R1-13-22A_014.jpg

Last two are of one of my hunting plots on the edge of the field and in the woods.
All of these had buckwheat in them which I tilled under and then replanted with the mix Paul mentioned at the beginning of the thread.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/1946151115-R1-06-15A_007.jpg

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/1946151115-R1-05-14A_006.jpg

Along with the rain last week it has rained at least once in the last couple of days. I hope the brassicas beat the turnips with all this heat and humidity.
I will post more as time goes on.

[risto2351]

Finally made it up to mow and check the plots. They look great so far. Now we need some sun. Brassicas planted on August 4,2007. They have had a lot of rain. Clover on the right of the top two pictures is kinda grassy but I think by looking at it I can mow it and frost seed it.

Food plot - Left of the picture is Brassicas, turnips and rape. Right side is white clovers and chicory.
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946Deer_Folder_2137.jpg



http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946Deer_Folder_2136.jpg

Brassicas and Turnips

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/1946Deer_Folder_2135.jpg

Hunting plots - Brassicas, turnips and rape

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946Deer_Folder_2138.jpg

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946Deer_Folder_2140.jpg

The turnips and rape in the corn is very small but it has been so wet and the corn is tall and not drooping yet.
Might make it but am not expecting anything right now.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946Deer_Folder_2141.jpg


Looks like the deer have plenty to eat this year.

[petherss]

My little brassica plot planted on 8/4. Even with all the rain everything is doing great!
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/544/medium/3855foodplot8_27_07f.JPG

[petherss]

The first pic is where I split the field down the middle- to the left is my rye mix and to the right are the brassicas.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/544/medium/3855foodplot8_27_07e.JPG

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/544/medium/3855foodplot8_27_07f.JPG

[dbltree]

Had a couple of light frosts up here in N Ia hows that going to effect the growing of my brassica. Will they continue to grow is that it?



They should be fine and continue to grow...at least that was the case for me last year.

They will even stay green into winter although growth will cease once we get sustained cold weather.

Those of you that had hard frosts...let us know how yours do over the next few weeks..hopefully you won't make a liar out of me..

[risto2351]

Well I finally had a chance to get up and check out the plots. I think the deer have plenty to eat.
One of my food plot my brassicas is about 14-16" high in this plot. Brassicas on the left. Clover and chicory on the right.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02833.JPG

Brassicas

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02836.JPG

Clover and chicory on the right is starting to look good also. Will frost seed some more next year. I was pleasantly surprised to see it this good.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02834.JPG

JJ, Here are some of the white flowers we talked about. Most of mine have wilted and not as many this time.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02817.JPG

Some of my turnips.
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02835.JPG

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02825.JPG

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02816.JPG

One of my hunting plots.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02815.JPG

One of my other hunting plots

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02823.JPG


Turnips are not as big in the above hunting plot. It is on a hillside so they may not be getting as much sunlight?
Here are the size of the turnips.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02824.JPG

Some brassicas and dwarf essex rape on the outside of the corn

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02821.JPG

Some of my turnips and rape in the corn

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02829.JPG


http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02831.JPG

Saw a few scrapes like this

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02822.JPG

I planted some more winter rye in a few areas where the corn has already been harvested. Hope it gets 2-3" high. At $10.00 a bag I thought I would try it even though it is late in the year.

Good luck to everyone hope everyone has a safe and great season.

[dbltree]

Seems like it's time to try something new (imagine that from the ole dbltree ;)

We've had great success with the short season brassica types, rape and turnips which are best planted 60-90 days before frost.

Late July to mid August works well and Turnips in Corn (http://www.iowawhitetail.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=267899&fpart=1) even works well.

There are long season brassicas (swedes and kale) that require 150 to 180 days growing period, which means planting in spring rather then summer. They have potential to provide more DM/TDN per acre but could require more inputs in the way of nitrogen.

I'm going to try some and compare to the short season varieties planted in mid-summer.

Growing Forage Brassicas (http://www.uwex.edu/ces/forage/pubs/brassica.html)

These are some common types of brassicas both long and short season.

Ampac Seed Forage Brassicas (http://www.ampacseed.com/brassicas.htm)

The long season brassicas are a little more difficult to find by the pound but here are a few sources:

ADAMS-BRISCOE SEED COMPANY (http://www.abseed.com/)

Cooper Seeds (http://www.cooperseeds.com/viewitem.php3?prod=2166)

Albert Lea Seed House (http://www.alseed.com/prodinfo.php?pid=19&SID=b1e675658100bef0fa901e547bd071ec) page down to brassicas

Welter Seed has a mix of long season brassicas that includes Austrian Winter Peas and Tyfon Forage Brassicas: Long Season Mix (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=248) that I think I will try.

This mix really contains everything I want in a long season brassica plot.

Remember that swedes will be more like turnips producing a large root that will be eaten in late winter and kale will produce a larger leaf that will be the "forage" component like rape in the short season mix.

I'm always searching for something they will leave alone early and forage on it in late fall/early winter so I'm going to do some "testing".

Bonker posted pics of some of his being hit last winter and I suspect most will not notice heavy feeding until later in the season, although the AWP will draw them early.

Stay tuned and if any of you have tried long season swedes and kale please give us some input :)

[dbltree]

Dbl.

Read thru some of the types you have on there. Not much info. on the Welter mix.

When are you going to plant them? Also do you think they will grow quick enough that you will not have to mow them for the weeds?

I know it is something different for you but just wondering what your thoughts are.

Thanks



Good questions...

No mowing this mix so I'm hoping it will grow thick enough like the short season brassicas to hold back weeds.

It's possible it will turn into a giant "mess a foxtail" by fall but time will tell.

The Welter mix contains:
Winton Swede
Major Plus Swede
Kestrel Kale
Tyfon Forage Brassica
Rutmaster(tm) Brand Hybrid Brassica
and
Austrian Winter Peas

Maris Kestrel is a full maturity leafy kale variety with short stems (150-220 days to grazing). Kestrel was bred to have a low-fiber stem with high digestibility.

Major Plus is a full maturity swede variety (from 160 days), and is characterized by its yellow-fleshed broad elliptical shaped bulb with red skin color. Major Plus is a new generation swede with high yield potential. 84% of its yield is in the bulb, providing very high energy.

Winton is a new generation late maturing swede noted for high yield potential and excellent disease resistance. Winton reaches full maturity from 180 days. With high leaf yield and excellent animal preference, Winton offers extended grazing for all livestock including dairy, beef, sheep and deer. Winton is characterized by its white-fleshed bulb, bronze skin color, and high leaf yield.

TYFON is intended for use as a high quality feed source for mid-summer or late autumn use when other cool season forages are slowing down. Tyfon should be planted at least 60 days before the grazing season to allow for adequate growth and re-growth. Plant in the spring or the fall (or in some cases farmers have planted in in the spring and then re-planted in the fall to keep a constant supply of lush nutritious forage all through the growing season).

I'm sure herbicide could be used but I'm going to just give it a try and see what happens...what works or doesn't or if there is any advantage to these.

I'm going to plant them just as soon as it quits raining (and the ground quits shaking...

[dbltree]

How big of an area are you going to plant? That field where they nailed your corn?? Sounds like an interesting plot.



I bought a 25# bag and yes...in the "food plot from he$$" area [img]/forum

I will have a number of other crops that can stand the intense grazing right beside it so we'll see...weeds may be the least of my worries...

[dbltree]

do you think they will grow quick enough that you will not have to mow them for the weeds?



risto made a good point about weed concerns in long season brassicas like swedes and kale but I noticed that Select 2 EC herbicide has been labeled for all types of brassicas including rapes, turnips and sugar beets.

Select 2 EC label for leafy brassicas (http://www.cdms.net/LDat/ld837042.pdf)

Select Labeling (http://www.cdms.net/LabelsMsds/LMDefault.aspx?pd=880&t=)

That would sure take care of my concerns about foxtail!

Keep in mind that Select is not a broadleaf herbicide but should pretty much take care of most grasses.

Looks like 6-8 ounces per acre mixed with crop oil.

Sounds like nannyslayer just might have some Select EC available at a decent price because apparently they are changing to Select Max (correct me if I'm wrong on this Brian ] )so if you can't find it locally shoot nannyslayer a PM.

His inventory is now down by one however...

If you have other weed concerns such as with tough broadleaves like pigweed, this link has more options: Herbicides for Sugar Beets (http://www.uidaho.edu/sugarbeet/weed/Herbicides%20for%20sugar%20beets.pdf)

[dbltree]

I planted a mix of long season brassicas and Austrian Winter peas to see how they might compare with the short season rape and turnips most of us are used too.

Swedes and Kale require 120 day growing seasons so need to be spring planted.

Welter Seed carries a mix (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=248) with everything I wanted to try...

Quote:
a blend of Austrian Winter Peas, Tyfon Forage Brassica, Winton Swede, Major Plus Swede, Kestrel Kale and Rutmaster(tm) Brand Hybrid Brassica.



http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BigBuckMix.jpg

I used a bag seeder to seed this mix but I was a little unsure about seeding a mix of large and tiny seeds together. Hopefully I didn't get it to thick but time will tell.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/AWPPeasandLSBrassicas.jpg

We disced it, tilled and cultipacked, seeded then packed the seed to cover it.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Equipment/Smoothnready.jpg

I planted this mix in between plots of clover and alfalfa and mixed forage oats and berseem clover just to try to take some of the pressure off the AW peas.

The peas and berseem clover will serve to fix nitrogen for next years crop as part of my commitment to "sustainable agriculture" or in my case sustainable "food plots"

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Seedbed.jpg

This mix should provide forage until way after the first of the year with the roots from the swedes lasting thru late winter.

My soil fertility is high so I used no additional fertilizer but I may try some foliar applied nitrogen later on.

Weeds I'll have to monitor, Select Max is approved for brassicas but I'm not sure about the peas. Select would kill the oats however.

The next thing will be to see if this mix will survive heavy grazing due to the high deer density I have to deal with. The Tyfon Forage Brassica I used in the short season mix was heavily grazed last time so we'll see how it goes.

[dbltree]

My long season brassica mix is up and growing!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5001102.jpg

Kale, swedes, austrian winter peas are the gist of the mix, to which I added forage oats and berseem clover.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5001103.jpg

The forage oats and berseem clover should keep deer from devouring the AWP's and brassicas before their time.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Kalenswedes6-1.jpg

This combination should provide some type of food source all the way into next winter.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/AWPKalenberseemmix.jpg

The oats will eventually mature or if foxtail becomes a problem I will spray with Select herbicide and kill the oats and any other grasses.

This fall I would have the option of broadcasting rye into the mix but it remains to be seen how thick this mix will be.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/AWPbrassicasnberseem.jpg

Closeup of the austrian winter pea

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/AWP6-1.jpg

[dbltree]

Is this the field where they devastated your corn and beans? I am looking forward to your results and may try something similar. Have you planted AWP this early in past? I thought they were often planted Late July or August. Great info,thanks again.



You mean this field?

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DeerDamage4.jpg

Yep...that's why I'm trying mixing oats and berseem clover to "blanket" every inch of ground with "food". They will go after the most tender and tasty growth first which in this case seems to be the forage oats.

AWP can be planted spring or fall but normally in a late summer planting. They were in this "mix" or I most likely wouldn't have planted them.

On the other hand, they have the potential to be adding nitrogen (assuming they survive) and just more forage/grazing. We'll see how they do...

[northwoods whitetails]

interesting developement up here...
one of my small hunting plots (1/2 acre)has been put in eagle beans this year. last year it was put in biologic full draw. the interesting developement is after i sprayed, tilled and planted the plot this spring, the beans came up as well alot of brassica. so now i am hoping the brassica makes it through the summer. i might have to help it with a little ferterlizer, but they are growing pretty good. so when the frost hits and the beans die, the deer can kep on eating..
also, i planted another hunting plot in biologic maximum and it is really taking off. should be knee high by hunting season. funny thing is that someone forgot to tell the deer that they don't like it until after a frost, already a few nips here and there.

[dbltree]

the beans came up as well alot of brassica.



Several people have had brassicas come back up the following year. I assume that means some of it went to seed, something that has never happened for me. They always eat it to the ground before it has a chance...

I checked my kale and swede mix the other day and it seems like growth is a little slow but then again I don't really know how it compares with short season brassicas as far as growth?

Deer are eating it despite the heavy mix of berseem clover, forage oats and AWP's mixed in. 3 out of 5 leaves are gone on this plant

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/GrazedKale.jpg

Just like the soybeans I had to get down and look close and sure enough many/most have been "nipped"...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/NippedSwede.jpg

This is some of the Tyfon hybrid brassica in the mix:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TyfonBrassica.jpg

Some pics of the whole mix as of 6-28

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/LongseasonBrassicamix.jpg

You can see the berseem clover better here

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/KalenOats.jpg

They certainly aren't lacking for anything to eat with this mix but the thick mix may be inhibiting the brassica growth a little.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/KalenBerseem.jpg

but hey...it's got all summer to grow!

You can identify the berseem here by the long narrow clover leaves...great high protein feed and nitrogen producer /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/KalenBCmix.jpg

This is a shot of the Austrian Winter Pea in the mix...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/AustrianWinterPea6-28.jpg

The foxtail hasn't taken off like I expected but if it does I'll hit it with Select. The only component of this mix that Select would kill at this point is the oats and they will soon be mature anyway.

[dbltree]

The foxtail hasn't taken off like I expected but if it does I'll hit it with Select.



One concern about long season brassicas vs short seasons is weeds. Pretty tough to have a "turnip" patch go thru 120 day growing season...weed free.

Surprisinglymost of mine isn't to bad perhaps because I used Dual Magnum 2 last year or because I planted oats and berseem clover with this mix and they are both helpful in suppressing weeds.

Some areas did have a flush of foxtail coming up...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/ThickFoxtail.jpg

so...you guessed it...
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Select2EC.jpg

6-8 ounces of Select along with 1% v/v crop oil will nuke the grasses in brassicas including sugar beets just fine. So no worries about grasses in long or short season brassicas!
It's almost mid July,so time to think about ordering seed for those short season brassicas.

Welter's will sell seed by the pound but they have a small handling fee for orders under 25#'s (I believe that is correct if my memory is right...

So splitting orders with friends will make it even more economical.

Welters brassicas (http://www.welterseed.com/productItems.aspx?id=3&org=0)

Check back at the beginning of this thread to see what I have tried and pictures of each and how they did. When it comes to seed...I'm like a kid in a candy store!

I want to plant some of everything

Quite honestly though Dwarf Essex Rape and Purple Top Turnips are the least expensive and they literally ate my DER to the ground before anything else(see previous pics)

Maxi-Rack (http://www.maxirack.com/poundseeds.html) sells seeds by the pound also and although nearly twice as much I may try some just to say I did.

I'm interested in the Graza Radish as well as the other brassicas they offer. Forage radish's can do wonders to break up your clay hard pan while feeding your deer at the same time.

Seedland (http://www.seedland.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=Seedland&Category_Code=Wildlife) offers seeds by just about anyone and everyone.

Seed brassicas at 3-6#'s per acre and believe me...a little goes a longgg ways!!

4#'s via Welters will run you roughly 6-10 bucks and you can mix and match what ever varieties you wish. All of which they mow to the ground at my place.

There are the name brand varieties that can run easily 6 times as much...good stuff but not better by any means. always someone trying to tell me otherwise but...boys...I didn't just fall off the turnip truck! (pun intended... )

Osenbaughs can fix you up with WI products like Winter Greens (http://www.whitetailinstitute.com/products/wintergreens/order.php)

Other brassica seed sources include

Biologic Maximum (http://www.mossyoakbiologic.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=8)

Tecomate NZ Forage Brassica (http://store.tecomate.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=T&Product_Code=5040&Category_Code=TecomateSeed)

ShotPlot (http://www.evolved.com/home/products/harvest/annuals/shotplot.aspx)

Whatever brassicas you plant we'd love to have you share pictures and results via this thread.

Plant anytime from late July to late August and don't forget that you can broadcast turnips into standing corn or beans just before a rain as well.

[dbltree]

Turnips, forage rape, forage radish, kale and swedes are all "brassicas"

You could add some brassicas to your fall mix but you only need 3-5#'s per acre so perhaps a pound or two mixed in with the cereal grains for a 1/2 acre.

[northwoods whitetails]

i just checked on the bean plot with turnips comming back from last year. beans are doing great, and the turnips are the size of softballs with two months of growing left... some plants started to get a slight yellow tint so i gave them a good dose of nitrogen and sprayed them with post to kill the grass...
i am very interested to see how long i can keep these growing well. first frost should be mid to late september with bow season opening on oct 1.
other hunting plot containing biologic maximum is knee high in some spots (gonna keep feeding that one to)

[dbltree]

Can brassicas be planted too early? Will turnips such as up bowhunter's that are so big continue to grow? Or will they be over mature and get "woody" by the time a frost rolls around.





That depends of course on exactly what type have come up in his plot, but yes...they can be planted too early.

Turnips and rape are 60-90 days so if they are planted (or come up on their own)they will mature and "bolt" (go to seed), get woody and all of the things you mention.

If they are long season (120 day) kale and swedes then no, they'll be just right. I have no idea what is in the Biologic mix...could be some of each but who knows? UPB can keep us updated into fall and see how they make out and if deer use them this fall.

[northwoods whitetails]

the turnips that are in the plot are just the regular purple top turnip. i'm not sure if they are a 60 or a 90 day type. i did this plot during memorial weekend and the turnips started poping up mid june. last year i tried turnips and sugarbeets in this plot but they turned yellow and wilted in mid summer (lack of proper ferterlizer i assume) redid the plot in biologic full draw for fall 2007. i am thinking that i have turnips growing this year because not all the seed germinated and stayed dormant for a year, and when i tilled the plot this spring, they germinated (is this possible). i will definately keep you guys posted on this, i am interested on how big they will get. the deer are already hitting both the bulbs and the leafs (we are 5 miles from any type of farm, surrounded by cedar swamps, they eat anything !!!)
as far as the biologic maximum mix, it has bioroa rape, a3 rape, mairak rape, and kuro rape. i got the idea of a spring planting form neil and craig dougherty's book: grow 'em right.
the biologic web site confirmed that maiximum can be planted in the spring in northern climates and with proper nutrition (water/fert) will get waist high. i planted mine in late may and some of it is knee high, impressive stuff and the deer like it to.
i'll check back in a week or two, we have some hot weather comming up, should get interesting...

[dbltree]

I ordered brassica seed from Welter Seed (http://www.welterseed.com/productItems.aspx?id=3&org=0) yesterday along with the smallest amount I could order from the larger "brand" companies so as to compare them all.

Last time I planted small plots of each variety along side the mix and the Dwarf Essex Rape was the first to be literally pounded to the ground! If they eat brassicas at all, they absolutely love DER! It is the least expensive at slightly over a buck a pound. If your on a budget or wondering if they will eat brassicas...try 5#'s of DER. For less the 10 bucks you can plant an acre of it!

I ordered the folowing this year:

Dwarf Essex Rape
Appin Forage Turnip
Bonar Rape
Pasj Hybrid Brassica
Barkant Forgae Turnip

I also ordered from MaxiRack:

Winfred Brassica
Hunter Brassica
Graza Radish

So I'll mark those and see how they compare along side the Welters mix and the seed from the "big shots"

I'll till under some Berseem Clover and add some urea to boot so it ought to do real well if we get any rain.

My plan is to plant next week (last week of July) to give it a 60-90 day growing window.

Here are pics/example of previous varieties I have planted, what they look like and some examples of grazing pressure. Note the DER was grazed very hard right from the get go!
Dwarf Essex Rape

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DERcloseup.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Dwarfessexrape.jpg

Appin Forage Turnip

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Appinforageturnip.jpg

Barkant Forage Turnip

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BarkantForageTurnip.jpg


http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BarkantForageTurnip2.jpg

Bonar Rape

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BonarRape-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BonarRape2.jpg

Pasja Hybrid Brassica


http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/PasjaHybridBrassica.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/PasjaHybridBrassica2.jpg

Tyfon Forage Brassica

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TyfonForageBrassica.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TyfonForageBrassica2.jpg

Purple Top Turnips - remember turnips provide late winter feed via the "root" so early grazing of the tops may not be as notable.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/PurpleTopTurnips.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/PurpleTop2.jpg

[dbltree]

Great post. I will try DER but looks very thick. Can one still add Rye or is that a waste?



I added rye to one patch but the brassicas just completely out did the rye. You can go very light with the brassica seed perhaps 2-3#'s per acre to keep it not so thick.

It is VERY easy to sow brassica seed to thick because it is such fine hard seed. 5# over an acre...you gotta barely open the regulator of what ever your seeding with.

On another note...I ordered from Welters about 3:00 p.m. yesterday and it arrived before noon today! Dang I love that place!!

The "name brand" seed orders all charged me 10-12 bucks shipping and it will take a week to ten days...

Cost more to ship a 1/4 acres worth seed from the big shots then an acres worth of seed from Welters. I combined orders with a couple friends so I had 36#'s basically over night for 15 bucks.

Ok...nuff of that...I'm just from the "old sod" and don't like throwing hard earned money away...

[dbltree]

Thanks Dbltree. Where is Welters? I called the elevator near me but didn't get much help. Do you have a # my friend so I can call them?



Click on this link for their online catalog of seeds:
Welter Seed and Honey (http://www.welterseed.com/default.aspx)

Call them at these ph #'s: Toll-free 1-800-728-8450 or 1-800-470-3325 • Fax (563) 485-2764


Welter Seed & Honey Co. - 17724 Hwy. 136 - Onslow, IA 52321-7549
Phone: (563) 485-2762 or (563) 852-3325

I don't have a dime invested in Welters and there are other good sources but for "seeds by the pound" it's hard to beat Welters great service and quality seeds.

[dbltree]

My long season brassicas don't seem to be "flourishing" perhaps because I got the berseem clover just a tad to thick...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Swedenberseemclover.jpg

The berseem is however "flourishing"!!

I clipped the tops off of the clover but I'm not sure it will help. Either way I have some awesome high protein feed.

I took this pics before I clipped it...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Swede7-24-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tyfon7-24-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Kale7-24.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/LSBrassica7-24.jpg

Even with all the clover they still have grazed it like it was candy in may spots.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Nippedbrassica.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/NippedKale.jpg

Oh well...I get a kick out of experimenting to see not only what will work but what will work under adverse conditions and extremely high deer density.

A very very light sprinkling of berseem might be alright but to much is just to competitive for the swedes and kale.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/LSMixnberseem.jpg

Still alot of growing season left so we'll see what if anything is left this fall. I'm pretty sure that if I planted it alone they would have virtually killed it early on.

If not for deer pressure I think managing grasses with Select or all weeds with a pre-emergent like Dual Magnum would do the trick.

The rest of my brassica seed is starting to show up as the MaxiRack seed arrives along with the Biologic Maximum.

I'll post all the varieties eventually in one place but as UPB mentioned the Maximum is primarily forage rapes. Will they out perform Dwarf Essex Rape...only time will tell.

Maximum contains the following:

29.69% Biogroa Rape
24.70% Makiraki Rape
19.70% A3 Rape
14.71% Kurow Rape
9.70% York Globe Turnip

I will mark all of these plots when I plant them next week and hopefully I'll get some exclusion cages up in each one. Be nice to see what it all looks like before they mow it to the ground...

It's easy to be convinced that companies spend bazillions "developing" the very best "scientifically" developed seed "specifically" for deer but in reality they often just choose seeds from large American and New Zealand seed companies who do indeed spend millions developing better forage seeds for livestock producers.

Hey...nuthin wrong with that I guess!

PGG Wrightson Seeds, Crop & Food Research Venture (http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU0709/S00101.htm)

PGG Seeds (http://www.pggseeds.com/foragebrassicasvarieties.aspx)

Wrightson Seeds - Forage Focus (http://www.pggwrightson.co.nz/wrightson-services/wrightson-seeds/forage-focus.html) This link contains a host of great information on growing brassicas including disease problems. (be careful of the "dates" though...we're talking "down under"

Wrightson Seeds - Brassica Varieties (http://www.pggwrightson.co.nz/wrightson-services/wrightson-seeds/pasture-productsold/brassicas.html)

Agriseeds - Brassica Species & Varieties (http://www.agriseeds.co.nz/brassica.htm)

Specialty Seeds NZ Ltd - Brassica Options (http://www.specseed.co.nz/brassicas.asp)

Ampac Seed Company - Brassicas (http://www.ampacseed.com/brassicas.htm)

Barenbrug Forage Brassicas Varieties (http://www.barusa.com/)

[huntyak]

So Sunday I am going to get my alflafa and brassicas in. I have read the entire post 2 times over and just plan on tilling and rolling over it once. The spot the brassicas is going will be planted alone and then frost seeded with red clover in the March.

It is somewhat shaded...would it be better to put another forage here or will brassicas do as well as any other forage in a semi shaded area?

I saw Triple 19 at #300 per acre. Is that a fertilizer and how does it compare to Urea?

Is there ANYTHING a guy can buy at Walmart to help somewhat without spending alot of $ on fertilizer?

Again..thanks Paul for your great posts!

[dbltree]

It is somewhat shaded...would it be better to put another forage here or will brassicas do as well as any other forage in a semi shaded area?

I saw Triple 19 at #300 per acre. Is that a fertilizer and how does it compare to Urea?

Is there ANYTHING a guy can buy at Walmart to help somewhat without spending alot of $ on fertilizer?



Brassicas may "survive" but not "thrive" in shaded areas. Shade is always iffy for almost anything but you won't know until you try.

Triple 19 is just a fertilizer combination of NITROGEN, POTASSIUM, AND PHOSPHORUS The "19"just means there is 19#'s in every 100#'s or 19%. There are common fertilizer mixes such as 6-24-24, 12-12-12, 19-19-19 46-0-0 etc. etc.

All the "numbers" tell you is how much of each of the 3 main elements are in a bag of fertilizer. If you buy it in bulk from an ag supply source, they can mix any combination your require. This is why we take soil tests so we know what nutrients our soils may be lacking and what might be required for the crop we'll be growing.

Sometimes you can buy fertilizers on sale at Wal-Mart, Menards, TSC and others...fertilizer is fertilizer as long as you understand what is in it.

DO NOT apply lawn fertilize containing week killers over the top of brassicas...it contains 2-4D and will kill them. Mix it in the soil and it won't be a problem. (cheaper to buy it without weedkiller however...)

Triple 19 is a good all around mix of equal amounts of N-P-K but brassicas prefer plenty of nitrogen so that's where the "300#'s" comes in. Using 300 pounds will give you 57 pounds of each element. You could get away with a 100#'s of 46-0-0 urea which is just nitrogen and does not contain the P and K elements.

at $20-25 a 50# bag, 300#'s could easily run $120-150 per acre which makes 15 bucks worth of red clover seed seem like a pretty darn good deal...huh?

Here are some links to help you understand a little more about fertilizer and what the "numbers" mean.


About Fertilizer (http://www.tfi.org/factsandstats/fertilizer.cfm)

NITROGEN, POTASSIUM, AND PHOSPHORUS (http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek/AgriFert/agrifert.html)

Fertilizer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_fertilizer)

Nutrient Topics (http://extension.agron.iastate.edu/soilfertility/nutrienttopics/samplingtesting.html) Use the drop window to explore all types of nutrient topics and explore NPK topics including soil testing.

Nutrient Cycling & Maintaining Soil Fertility (http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/M1193.html)

Fertility Management in Organic Crop Systems (http://www.gov.mb.ca/agriculture/soilwater/soilfert/fbd01s05.html)

Nutrient Considerations for Diversified Cropping Systems (http://agron.scijournals.org/cgi/content/full/94/2/186)

Soil Test Interpretation Guide (http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/ec/ec1478.pdf)

Soil Fertility Management (http://anrcatalog.ucdavis.edu/pdf/7249.pdf)

Mind Your P's and K's (http://www.noble.org/Ag/Soils/PSandKS/Index.htm)

You Can't Afford Not to Lime (http://www.noble.org/Ag/Soils/AffordNotToLime/index.html)



Brassicas for Forage-Brassica species for forage include
rape, kale, swedes and turnips. Brassicas can be used to
break up an old pasture to be planted with an improved
species and/or to extend the grazing period into the late
fall. They are frequently planted after small grains have
been harvested. A total of 75 pounds of nitrogen is
suggested to produce good yields. Follow the
recommendations in ( P & K Recommendations (http://web1.msue.msu.edu/msue/imp/modf1/visuals/table11.htm) ) for phosphate and potash.
Apply up to 30 pounds of nitrogen, 50 pounds of phosphate
and 50 pounds of potash in the row at planting.
Additional fertilizer should be broadcast and
incorporated before planting.

[dbltree]

i noticed that in one of your pics that some of the leafs on your brassicas were turning yellow and purple. is this due to lack of nitrogen? if not, do you know the cause of the discoloration??



More likely a lack of sunlight!

The berseem clover is just way to thick.

The Tyfon has a good dark green color so I actually think the the kale and swedes have a light green coloration.

The older pics include Purple Top turnips that naturally turn shades of purple. I had 500#'s of triple 19 per acre on that ground so they weren't lacking anything.

[dbltree]

I received my Tecomate seed and it says Hybrid Rape/Turnip Yields both Forage and edible bulb but reading this description from another source it says this:



T-Raptor Forage Brassica from Barenbrug
This is a hybrid brassica that looks like a turnip without the bulb. It is the best brassica for multiple grazings and is the fastest brassica to be ready to be grazed (10 days earlier than the quickest turnips and rapes). Capable of 3 plus high yield grazings. Also T-Raptor is better adapted to mixing with sorghum sudangrass than turnips.





Anyway..the Tecomate Ultra Forage Mix contains the following:

49.97% T-Raptor Rape
14.73% Arrowleaf Clover
9.96% Lacerta Chicory
9.90% Mammouth Red Clover
9.88% Forage Feast Chicory

I'm really only interested in the brassica portion, since this is an annual plot the chicory seed seems like a waste.

I'm interested in seeing how the clover fares with such a competitive brassica as T-Raptor?

I'm not big on mixing brassicas and clover but Big Mammouth I would consider a plowdown type of red clover so it won't hurt anything.

Here are other sources for just T-Raptor Rape Seed

Best Forage (http://www.bestforage.com/brassicas.htm)

Fowler Seed (http://fowlerseed.com/seed.html)

If it ever stops raining I'll plant my brassicas this week...too much rain is hardly the norm for late July!

[bowhuntr311]

If a person wants to plant brassicas and cereal grains in the same plot. How should a person go about it. I know brassicas should be planted here anytime. But most of WW/Rye/Oats should be planted in a few weeks yet?

My rye is head high and ripe. I figured another week and the seeds will really fall well if I mow them. I figured I would mow, disc as lightly as possible, then cover it with a heavy oats covering. Hopefully get some rye to back up with the oats. I would love to throw in turnips/rape seed for some real late season feed?

Dean

[dbltree]

That will work...I've done it before myself (disc down mature rye) but I would hold off another week or two if possible.

Kind of early to plant grains if you want tender feed in October.

If you add brassicas...one or the other may dominate depending on which is thicker. I've seen forage rape completely smother out winter wheat and I've had rye smother out brassicas but so far I haven't really seen a great plot of both.

I like to manage them separately because that works into my clover/grains & red clover/brassica rotations.

If you do plant your plot as you mentioned, please share some pics with us and let us know how it works out.

[bowhuntr311]

Dbltree thanks for the answers.
I was more wondering about the time situation. Im another 8hours north of you. I expect my first frost by atleast the 3rd week in Sept. Is 30days enough for brassicas. I know they can take some cold weather and still grow, but I was worried about them freezing off and going dormant and only having quater sized leaves. Not really worth the money if the leaves will only get the size of a quater.

What will happen if they get planted to late? Any idea what most rape seed needs to mature? Turnips are 12-14weeks.

Dean

[dbltree]

I planted some brassicas with rye about Labor Day weekend a few years ago and our avg. frost date isn't until mid October and often later.

The brassicas sprouted but never took off by cold weather versus those planted in July a few feet away.

I would think that yours would have time planted right now but waiting until the proper time to plant cereal grains I'm guessing would be a waste of "seed money"

dbltree,

Could you further describe your clover/grains and red clover/brassicas rotation? Thanks

I plant brassicas in mid July and then I plant a winter rye/oats/forage pea/forage radish and red clover strip or block in August. In the spring I till under the spent brassicas and plant oats and berseem and rotate that to the rye combination and in July I till under the red clover that was planted with rye the fall before and plant brassicas...;)

[dbltree]

Over the past few days I've tilled down some beautiful red clover and berseem clover and planted my short season brassicas..

I had clipped this so that it wouldn't be too tall for my tiller to handle.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/ClippedClover-2.jpg

Like tilling down free fertilizer!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tillingdownclover.jpg

Took several passes to get it tilled down

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/FirstPass.jpg

and get the clover chopped up and stirred in

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BrassicaSeedbed.jpg

I had clipped off the oats which shattered seed all over so no doubt some will sprout

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tilledunderoats.jpg

The clover will, as it slowly breaks down, provide at least a portion of the brassicas nitrogen requirements.

I planted two different plots on different farms and used triple 13 on one plot and only the clover on the other. I would have prefered 46% urea but none was available in bags so I picked up this instead.

Triple 13 was 20 bucks a bag

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Triple13.jpg

100#'s = 13#'s each of NPK per acre, so I put on enough to = about 40#'s of actual per acre along with the tilled under clover

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Triple137S.jpg

Spread fertilizer

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/FertilizerSpread.jpg


Eventually I ended up with this...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TilledReadytoplant.jpg

Remember brassica seed is tiny and is seeded at 4-6#'s per acre so set your seeder or drill at the smallest setting, just like seeding white clover seed.

I planted from Welter Seed (http://www.welterseed.com/productItems.aspx?id=3&org=0) roughly equal amounts of each at 5#'s per acre.

Dwarf Essex Rape
Appin Forage Turnip
Bonar Rape
Pasj Hybrid Brassica
Barkant Forage Turnip

From MAXI-RACK (http://www.maxirack.com/poundseeds.html) :

Winfred Brassica
Hunter Brassica
Graza Radish

From Tecomate Ultra Forage (http://store.tecomate.com/merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=T&Product_Code=5056&Category_Code=TecomateSeed)

49.97% T-Raptor Rape
14.73% Arrowleaf Clover
9.96% Lacerta Chicory
9.90% Mammouth Red Clover
9.88% Forage Feast Chicory

From Biologic Maximum (http://www.mossyoakbiologic.com/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=8)

29.69% Biogroa Rape
24.70% Makiraki Rape
19.70% A3 Rape
14.71% Kurow Rape
9.70% York Globe Turnip

I intended to plant WI Wintergreens Brassica mix but it's been two weeks and still no seed. I will plant eventually as well

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TecomateSeed.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/MaximumSeed.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/MaxiRackSeed.jpg

I marked the different plots

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/PlotMarkers.jpg

After tilling and broadcasting the very tiny seeds I ran the cultipacker over it to cover it

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cultipacker-3.jpg

This is a pic after packing...the packer "wheels" firm the soil but don't really pack it as the weight of the packer is carried by the narrow part of the wheel.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Packermarks.jpg

If you don't have a cultipacker...put in your wish list! A very handy tool for sure.

The soil was barely dry enough to till but I gave it time to dry out bewteen passes, so there is soil moisture there. We have some hot dry weather ahead so hopefully we'll get a nice shower this next week to get things growing.

Eventually we'll be able to compare these brassica seeds planted on two different farms mile apart so completely different deer are feeding on them.

In the past one place was mowed to the ground while the other was untouched until all other feed was gone late in the year.

Will one seed out perform the other? Will deer prefer one over another? Will seed developed for grazing livestock be less preferred then one supposedly "engineered" for deer?

Stay tuned...were gonna find out! ;)

[huntyak]

I noticed the "chewed" up clover and oats doesn't leave a perfectly clean bed which after seeing your plots must be ok then? This is what mine looked like after tilling the clover last week before the alfalfa planting and I was curious if it would be a problem.

We also have a straight cylinder roller..not cultipacker..just a big large cylinder! Will this firm the seed bed too much or is it OK? Thats all I've got at this point.

[dbltree]

I noticed the "chewed" up clover and oats doesn't leave a perfectly clean bed which after seeing your plots must be ok then? This is what mine looked like after tilling the clover last week before the alfalfa planting and I was curious if it would be a problem.

We also have a straight cylinder roller..not cultipacker..just a big large cylinder! Will this firm the seed bed too much or is it OK? That's all I've got at this point.



No need for a "perfect" seedbed, all we need is seed/soil contact and a firm seedbed.

The roller is the next best thing to a cultipacker, as long as it's not to heavy and actually "packs/compacts" the soil it will be fine.

A friend of mine uses a lawn roller that you fill with water but he doesn't fill it up so it isn't so heavy.

An ATV can work also on small plots...just drive back and forth until the surface has been firmed with the tires.

The key is "firm" not "packed"...watch auction sales and classifieds for an old cultipacker and pick one up when you can.

[m_kat]

dbltree,


Thanks for putting this side by side comparison together! The results should be very interesting.

[dbltree]

Any suggestions which Brassicas is most tolerant of bad soil? It was mentioned that Alice was a tough clover even in poor soil, wondered if any Brassicas fit that description as well.



That's a great question...that I don't really have the answer to

I have not noticed any varieties being advertised as being tolerant of poor soil.

I do know that "root" type brassicas (turnips and forage radish)are very helpful in improving your soil. Especially compacted clay soils. The root will actually help break up subsoil and loosen your soil, allowing moisture and nutrients to flow thru instead of running off.

One thing for sure...they don't like dry soil and I have some real miserable poor clay soil areas to test them, so if anything shines or stands out I'll let you know.

I finally received my Wintergreens seed and nannyslayer has some bullseye brassica seed for me to try. Give nannyslayer a shout if you want to give his seed a try.

[buck160]

wow dbltree, looks great and it has been very helpful, i also appreciate your suggestions on my post.

[huntdoc]

Thanks dbl! I have a spot that stays fairly moist so I plan to throw some seed out soon. I'll try to track which varieties make it.

[dbltree]

well, the giant turnips have decided to call it a day. they are showing lots of wilt and half the plants are turning brown.. so it is safe to assume they were a 60 day turnip (end of may until now). i tilled some of them under with the bean stubs (darn deer)and planted rape/turnips within the range of my bow stand, and lightly scratched the rest of the beans and planted rape/wheat. i left about a 100 x 30 foot section alone to see what becomes of the giant turnips. kind of curious if the deer eat them.



That's kinda what I figured but know we know for sure...thanks for updating us on how they did.

The batch you just planted should do the trick!

[dbltree]

These are some of the last brassicas I planted and it hasn't rained a drop since I planted them. Germination varies widely on this plot which contains all of the mixtures noted previously in this thread.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5001255.jpg

It's all coming up just some areas slower then others

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5001256.jpg

Closer examination shows the tiny brassicas popping up even in the dry soil

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5001257.jpg

It's always interesting to see it come up in untilled areas where the moisture in dead mulch is enough to germinate seed.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5001259.jpg

Right now quite frankly I can't tell any of it apart

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/S5001258.jpg

The pictures show the mix from Welters, Bulls-Eye and Maxi-Rack, Biologic and Tecomate. The Wintergreens arrived later and so isn't up yet.

This plot was in field rye and red clover...note that there are few if any weeds. Allelopathic effects of rye in inhibiting weed growth are a very obvious positive reason to plant field rye rather then wheat and use it in your plot rotation.

On the subject of weeds in brassicas... please note that applying 2-4D amine just before planting seed can have enough residual effect to prevent brassica seed from germinating. DO NOT apply 2-4D amine to an area to be planted to brassicas within a week of planting. 2-4D LV4 may not be a problem

I often see people advocating the mixing of cereal grains and brassicas...something that I have never seen work very well. Brassicas form a dense thick canopy and are very competitive (look at the pictures.... )
They will either be suffocated by grains or clovers or suffocate the grains and clovers!

It just depends on which on gets a leg up on the other. Why mix everything??? Plant side by side plots that you can rotate and you'll be far better off, producing maximum forage and more naturally sustainable food plots. You still offer deer and wildlife a variety but just not all in one heap

I'll be posting pics of the other brassica plots soon and we'll keep an eye on them thru out the growing/hunting season to see how they do.

Nannyslayer is handling Bulls-Eye Brassica mix which is 50% Winfred Forage Brassica and 50% Hunter Forage Brassica available in 2# packages for roughly 10 bucks a bag.

Good product at a reasonable price if you have a need for brassica seed give him a shout.

Find more info on these seeds an pictures of these brassicas below.

PGG Seeds - Forage Brassica info (http://www.pggseeds.com/foragebrassicasvarieties.aspx)
Winfred Brassica

http://www.smithseed.com/images/brassica%20images/Winfredphoto.jpg

http://www.smithseed.com/images/brassica%20images/WinfredClose.jpg

At ninty days

http://www.smithseed.com/images/brassica%20images/Winfred90days.jpg

Hunter Brassia

http://www.smithseed.com/images/brassica%20images/Hunter_field.jpg

http://www.smithseed.com/images/brassica%20images/Hunter_close.jpg

If any of you have pics to share of your own brassicas please share them with us here. If you have trouble posting email them to me at dbltree2000@yahoo.com

[dbltree]

These are pics from my August 1st brassica planting...that desperately needs rain. It has rained scarcely a drop since I planted them which causes very uneven germination.

This is across the plot which contains all the types/brands previously listed.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BrassicaPatch-1.jpg


This shows the Bulls-Eye mix on the right, Biologic Maximum in the center and Tecomate to the left. The BE and Tecomate are way ahead of the Maximum right now but remember these mixes contain all different types of rapes, turnips and hybrid versions of each, so growth will vary.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BrandBrassicas.jpg

This is the BE/Maxi-Rack mix up close

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BEMix.jpg

Biologic Maximum

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BiologicBrassicas.jpg

Tecomate (note the red clover in this mix coming up as well)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TecomateBrassicas.jpg

Welter Mix...in all of these pics you can see the rapidly decaying organic matter I tilled in as well.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/WeltersBrassicas.jpg

Where there was more moisture there was quicker germination while other areas are just now coming up.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BabyBrassicas.jpg

We have an excellent chance of 3/4" of rain over the next 2-3 days which should get them growing better. Brassicas DO NOT like dry sandy soils, the prefer the same soils that clover does...moist heavy soil.

As I noted in the previous plot pics...no particular variety, brand or mix has really shined or appeared outstanding but they have a lot of growing to do.

The sooner they canopy the better they will be able to suppress weeds and hold soil moisture much in the same manner as soybeans do.

What appears to be "grass" growing is actually the oats I tilled under...they re-sprouted as I expected. We'll see how they compete.

Long season kale and swedes have started to reach above the berseem clover...barely

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/LongSeasonBrassica.jpg

Kale and Swede

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/KaleandBrassica.jpg

You can see why I don't advocate mixing clovers and brassicas

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/AugTyfonBrassica.jpg

Although in a late summer clover/brassica mix the clover will not have time to over power the brassicas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BrassicaandBerseem.jpg

Somethings go together...somethings don't and I have yet to see an "outstanding" mix of brassicas and anything

Generally when we see a great brassica patch it is a stand alone plot and looking at these plots you can see that it would be difficult to impossible for any other plant to compete with them.

[huntyak]

I'll try and post pics tonight or Thursday of my DER, oats, and red clover. I plantedthe DER per Pauls info on the posts and suggestions. I planted them on July 27th and like Paul said, no rain in SE since. In any case, it is coming up and I am really impressed!!! However, I did plant red clover to add nitrogen when plowed but may just frost seed whites back in come winter. Depends if the brassicas cause a problem but only half the plot has it (#1 planted of DER). I added no fertilizer, RR or anything else. Just tilled, planted, and rolled! I had some oats left and thought what the heck..add it to the clover side and they came up good as well. Bad news is, as the pic shows, they are eating it already which means by Oct 1 it will be too mature. Live and learn. It seems big tracks in my experience, although not full proof, belong to big bucks, we will see what the cams show in the next few weeks.

[dbltree]

u.p.bowhunter sent these pics of his brassicas, Biologic Maximum mix planted in late May.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/UPBrassicas.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/FieldofMaximum.jpg

You can see here they are knee high!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/KneeHighBrassica.jpg

Good lookin' stuff for sure! Brassicas planted that early here would be likely to bolt and become unpalatable, but our growing season is longer and summers get pretty hot. Take some more pics this fall and let us know how usage is

[dbltree]

Couple pics of Dwarf Essex Rape sent in by huntyak, planted a few weeks ago.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DER2.jpg

Like mine they needed rain bad and we're getting a nice steady rain today!! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DER1.jpg

Dwarf Essex Rape is one of the least expensive but most preferred brassicas. I found in my sided by side tests they chose it first and grazed it heavily long before a frost.

DER is also the most tolerant of heat and drought

Dwarf Essex Rape (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=67)

Less then 8 bucks an acre and you could plant it with a rake in killed sod if you had a small area to plant...just don't expect it to last long.....

[dbltree]

Now that we had had a little rain the brassicas have taken off!

Compare this to the pics from a week ago...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Aug2508Brassicas.jpg

Now this is the part I get a kick out of... look at these pics and tell me which ones are "high priced big named pretty pictures on the bag" seed...and which ones are just inexpensive brassica seed from nannyslayer or Welters????

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/8-25BE.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/8-25tecomate.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/8-25Welter.jpg

So far...nothing different but the...price /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Some seed is still coming up so one more rain wouldn't hurt a thing

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TinyBrassica.jpg

Now this patch is nearly 3 weeks old so you can see how limited we would be if we plant in early September.

Just like planting grains we have to watch timing so that we get the most growth before cold weather but at the same time not have them get mature and start bolting on us.

Late July thru mid August puts those of us in the Midwest in that 60-90 time frame that is perfect for short season brassicas.

I will be planting some left over brassica seed at different time intervals and with different grains just for comparison as well.

[dbltree]

Good high quality brassica seed can be purchased for anywhere from $12 to $60 an acre. Beyond the price...what's the difference??

I walked thru this plot I planted the first of August that contains, various brassica seeds from Welters, Bulls-eye from nannyslayer and Maxi-Rack, Maximum from Biologic and Tecomates brassica mix.

Deer have already been feasting on this forage (unwilling to wait for "frost to sweeten" it... ) so I snapped pics of each variety or mix showing that deer have shown no preference for one or the other.

Can you tell which mix is which??????????

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/WeltersNipped.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TecomateNipped.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/MaximumNipped.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BENipped.jpg

Obviously they like it all...regardless of price or pretty pictures on the bag...;)

The Wintergreen seed arrived late but it is coming up as well

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/8-26Wintergreens.jpg

[Limb Chicken]

Planted August 26th. Looks pretty good but have a couple places I must have drug the harrow over one to many times...;)

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3006/brassicas2.jpg

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3006/Brassicas1.jpg

This is hand spread and drug with a harrow. A timely rain was nice as well. This is Hunters Specialties premium fall blend.

[dbltree]

This is Hunters Specialties premium fall blend.



Sweet! That's one I haven't included in my "tests" so we can add another to the list.


Looks like it's doing just fine too!

[risto2351]

Well I don't know what to expect yet.

I planted these the week after the shed gathering.

As you can see in the upper right hand it funnels to another little one.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC05903.jpg

The second one Jr. and little missy are spreading some new seed out to try and help fill in the spots.


http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC05933.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC05942.jpg

Here the boss is laying down the law.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC05943.jpg

I planted both of these hunting plots real early and they are real spotty. They are both new ones this year and the rain and temps are not helping. I fertilized them when I planted them.

I put a little more seed on even though I know it will not grow to its full potential.


Will the seed that did not sprout eventually sprout when it gets the right moisture?

If not maybe some winter wheat to fill in the areas??

[huntyak]

Brassicas probably won't get grow to the mature point this far in but I think rye grain would be an exceelent choice to rake into the spotty areas!!

[dbltree]

Will the seed that did not sprout eventually sprout when it gets the right moisture?



Unless it sprouted and then died from lack of moisture....let us know if you got rain and if that helped or not. We've had nearly a foot of rain down here and just enough at the right times after planting.

Even then I had some spotty places at first because it was so dry.

UP Bowhunter sent in a pic of his brassicas...no lack of moisture up there apparently!

Good lookin' stuff but he's concerned if there will be any left when season opens! Look at the one he's holding!!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/UPBiologicBrassicas.jpg

Brassicas love moist fertile soil and will really go to town if they have both. His Biologic brassicas have done well for him and obviously the deer approve!

[dbltree]

My brassicas are about 6 weeks old now and this plot contains at least four different "brand mixes" including my own "brassica concoction" from Welters

Can you tell any difference?

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BrassicaVarieties9-15.jpg

This plot is literally surrounded by lush alfalfa, soybeans, corn as well as oat and clover plots.

At this point none of it has been touched...so "brand -X- or -Y-" doesn't mean they will eat it any better...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas9-15.jpg

Now...those previous pics, the brassicas are nearly knee high and were planted the first of August.

These were planted the first of Sept...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BabyBrassicasnclover.jpg

These are some I broadcasted in soybeans

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BrassicasinSoys.jpg

It's only two weeks until opening day and while these brassicas will grow some you can see why planting them with cereal grains in early fall isn't the best plan.

Planting in soys can work but mid August might be best and many soys will be to thick and canopied

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BrassicasinSoybeans.jpg

Those were along an edge where they have some sunlight

We'll keep an eye on progress and usage as fall progresses...

[Fishbonker]

Here are a couple of pics of my 08 turnips. If you look closely you will see a difference between the left side and the right. The left side is standard purple top and the right is a forage mix called Bullyseye that Nanny sells. Nothing different prep wise between sides. Same fertilizer, tried to keep seeding rates the same, both side are wayyy over seeded.

I haven’t pulled any up to check on bulb formation but I would expect the purple tops to have better bulbs because the forage type is grown for it’s leaves. If that isn’t right Nanny or Dbltree can correct me.

Still no forage activity by the deer. Lots of tracks but no nipped stems. Hopefully after it gets cold.

I have to give Muddy and JNRBronc a big shout out for getting them put in for me. What should have taken a couple of hours took about six. The crap that was mowed was so thick on the ground that the disc wouldn’t cut through it. We ended up hooking up my way old two bottom trip plow that took us forever to get set up right, then disked in the 13-13-13, packed, seeded, packed and waited a week for rain.

You can read a little more about the plot in The Iowa Bowhunter.

Thanks again guys.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/plot_08_004.jpg

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/plot_08_007.jpg

The 'Bonker

[dbltree]

Since you say it is "wayyy over seeded", what are people's opinions on going over the top with more granular fertilizer?



Some nitrogen wouldn't hurt anything, especially if you can find some lawn fertilizer WITHOUT 2-4D weedkiller

They usually have fall fertilizer without weedkiller this time of year and it has slow release nitrogen in it which will really make it shoot for the moon!

It is very easy to get that stuff to thick and that's one of those "live and learn" things. Travis has the right idea the #'s per acre...light is better!

Maybe we should have a "root" contest this fall...who has the biggest turnip?? ;)

[risto2351]

Maybe we should have a "root" contest this fall...who has the biggest turnip??



Paul,
I would be a year too late Paul.
Since the farmer pulled his land out of CRP
I have went from this.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02836.JPG

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/535/medium/1946DSC02825.JPG

To this

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC05903.jpg

Good thing my rye is my ace in the hole. ( I hope)

[risto2351]

A little rain helped these plots. There is still some that needs to grow to fill it out. Still needs some rain.



Before:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC05903.jpg

After:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06134.jpg


Before:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC05934.jpg

After:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06139.jpg


This last plot has a lot of upturned dirt. Looks like something has been in there. I need to put a cam traker in there to see what it is. Otherwise it is a very poor looking plot with everythin done just like the other.

Put some Brassicas in the corn also. Come on rain.

[dbltree]

it is a very poor looking plot with everything done just like the other.




That's really odd, almost like the seed didn't germinate in those areas? Did turkeys get in there and scratch around maybe?

My brassicas on one farm are outstanding...and untouched...they seem to be all foliage at this point and I can see no "root" or turnip forming on any of them yet.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Nicenthick.jpg

They are lush and thick and have all the brands and varieties yet deer have taken nary a bite... I fertilized these brassicas heavily and tilled in red clover as well so they are lacking nothing.

You can see also that mixing anything with brassicas is not likely to work if they have a chance to grow...they will out compete anything and everything.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Lushbrassicas.jpg

I am standing in an alfalfa field and you can see there are oat plots, soybean fields and even clover plots surrounding this brassica plot. They simply aren't interested at this point and I would note that they are not eating it despite claims by "big name" seed companies that their product is irresistible... ;)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Feedoplenty.jpg

Now the other farm...is another story.......

Previouslyin this thread I listed all the brands and varieties and showed early pics as they came up. I tilled under spring oats and berseem clover so I have oats that re-sprouted.

Deer have pounded these brassicas to death...same brassicas, all types, every major company and seeds from Welters and the Bullseye from nannyslayer.

They don't care...they are mowing it regardless if the seed costs a buck a pound or ten!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassica4.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassica3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicagrazing.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Grazedhard-1.jpg

A few weeks ago the brassicas were above the oats but now they have grazed the brassicas down to where the oats are almost above them.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Oatsinbrassicapatch.jpg

They are pulling some of them right out of the ground.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Pulledup.jpg


As of 9-21 this is the biggest turnip I noticed simply because they are eating them to the ground.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Turnip9-21.jpg



I stuck up a couple exclusion cages to see what happens from here on out.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicacage2.jpg

I top dressed some areas with fertilizer but hoped for rain didn't come. I used some high nitrogen lawn fertilizer that has some slow release urea in it so some of it will be available.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Fertlizer9-21.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Fertilizebrassicas9-21.jpg

To test different planting dates I planted a few in mid August

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Oatpeanbrassica2.jpg

and planted a third set September first but you can see that the late planted ones aren't going to provide much forage.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Latestbrassicas.jpg

The long season brassicas planted this spring are actually doing better after I clipped the berseem clover.

Tyfon on 9-21

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tyfon9-21.jpg

Swedes 9-21

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Swede8-21.jpg

Kale 9-21

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Kale9-21.jpg

Long season brassicas with berseem clover...no lack of feed but the berseem is certainly not the best choice as it is just way to thick.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Longseasonbrassica9-21.jpg

I'll continue to monitor the different varieties, planting dates and fertilizer effects and see what happens but right now I can see now advantage to one brand or variety over another. :)

[dbltree]

When did you top dress the brassicas? Too late now?

The 'Bonker



I just put some on Sept 20th but it never did rain and that's the problem with top dressing urea, it's going to denitrify and a certain percentage will be lost to the air without a good rain to push it into the soil.

So..it's not to late we may have weeks of growing weather yet. Looking at the forecast I don't see even a hint of frost in the forecast.

I would look for some slow release lawn fertilizer WITHOUT weedkiller in it. Perhaps a fall/winter lawn fertilizer which will be high in nitrogen. The slow release type will last without being lost if it doesn't rain.

The forecast looks like rain is at least possible if you can get some on this evening...



Tonight: Isolated showers between 10pm and 1am, then a chance of showers and thunderstorms after 1am. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 61. South wind between 5 and 10 mph. Chance of precipitation is 40%.

Wednesday: Isolated showers before 1pm. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 82. Calm wind becoming south around 5 mph. Chance of precipitation is 20%.

[dbltree]

I walked out in some of my brassicas and took some closeup pics of why mixing other crops (grains,clovers etc.) usually isn't going to work well.

Just the top of my knee is showing here

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SuperthickBrassicas.jpg

It's just a very thick "jungle" down in there and anything else planted there doesn't stand a chance...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BrassicaJungle.jpg

The Tecomate brassica mix I planted had red clover and chicory in it and I added some red clover to the other mixes as well but so far I can see know evidence of any surviving.

Late planted brassicas (late August or early September) won't have enough time to over power other crops...but then what is the point? These were planted Sept first and just don't have time to produce any real forage compared to those planted late July or early August

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicaandcloverseedlings.jpg

Mid August is a little better but still no comparison to those with more growth time.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Latestbrassicas.jpg

Planting short season brassicas to early means they will end up maturing and bolting at which point they will become unpalatable to deer. So late July/early August puts us in their 60-90 day growing season to give us optimum forage production by cold weather/fall season.

Maximum production however also means there won't be room for anything else but brassicas. That being said I would encourage you to stay away from mixes that contain anything but brassicas.

Frost seed clover into the brassica plot rather then add seed at planting.

If the brassicas are thin or heavily grazed then broadcast field rye in early September to "spruce" up your plot.

I had some grass growing in one corner of this brassica patch, so I sprayed it with Select. We'll see what that looks like in a week or so...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/GrassinBrassicas.jpg

Still no frost in the forecast here in SE Iowa and we got about an inch of rain the other night so we still have plenty of time for growth of both forage brassicas and turnip (root) production.

Who's got the biggest turnip?? ;)

[dbltree]

I have noticed the competition problem as my brassicas were planted July 27th in SE IA but are only the size of your Mid August planting???I planted with clover and oats (big mistake on oats as they are seeded out now) but I believe with all the comp maybe that's why they are so small. They are DER from Welters.



Planting dates and what we plant together are a big deal and the reason I don't care for many commercial mixes where to many "variables" are thrown together.

I tilled down spring oats to plant this brassica patch so the oats re-seeded from tilling them in, otherwise they wouldn't be there.

At first it looked like this...like everywhere else dry weather had it looking spotty but otherwise it was doing ok early on.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BrassicaPatch-1.jpg

Dry weather and very heavy grazing eventually left it looking like this however...as the oats took over.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Oatsinbrassicapatch.jpg

I've already posted pics previously in this thread showing the brassicas eaten to the ground...something many of you don't have a problem with early on, so each case is different.

Cereal grains can withstand very dry weather and recover quickly with very little moisture. They also can handle intensive grazing...take a lickin and keep on tickin so to speak.

Brassicas however need copious amounts of moisture and nitrogen and cannot recover as quickly if at all from intensive grazing.

Combine grains with brassicas and you have a recipe for disaster...only one will come out on top and it just depends on which one has all the "right stuff" to survive.

Rule of thumb...plant brassicas alone right around the first of August...plant cereal grains roughly around the first of September.

Some things go together like oats and peas or rye and clover but brassicas are best off planted alone........:)

[dbltree]

Will Select kill the Oats??



You bet...but the oats and brassicas will all be gone next spring and timely clipping will clean up anything that happens to pop up.

[dbltree]

These are pics of all the different varieties and brands of brassicas on one of my farms where deer do not eat them early on.

Couple things we can learn from this situation.......

1) Despite big ad claims by "big buck on the bag" brand companies that deer will be drawn like magnets to their product...brand simply doesn't matter!

If deer like brassicas...they eat them ALL if they don't...they won't eat any of them...

2) Because these brassicas have as yet not been grazed we can see what kind of potential they have, what they will look like at maturity and if they have roots or not.

3) We can see that "mixes" will NOT work, simply because well fertilized brassicas will completely over power and out comptete anything else that is planted with them....

First let's take a look at the different "brands"....

This is the Winfred Brassica and Hunter Brassica that is in the BullsEye and Maxi-Rack Mix (nannyslayer mix)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/MaxiBELeft.jpg

They may produce "roots" but I have not been able to find any as of yet...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BRRoots.jpg

This is Biologic Maximum

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BiologicMax10-10.jpg

Again...no roots to be found but this stuff is all very very thick

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BMRoots.jpg

Tecomate mix...not a single clover or chicory plant to be found! The rape in the mix is very dominate!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tecomate10-10.jpg

Rape does not have a root so not expecting any here but rather to show that the red clover, chicory and other seeds that one pays for in a "mix" have not a snowballs chance in you know where of surviving...so why pay for a "mix"????


http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/TecomateRoots.jpg

Most of us already know what to expect from the Welters brassica seeds (I did not plant any Purple Tops this time) It is a good mix of Dwarf Essex rape and other reasonable priced seeds previously listed in this thread.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/WelterMix.jpg

In this mix I could easily find "turnips"...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/WelterRoots.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Turnip10-10.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Turnip2.jpg

I found some that were torn up but I suspect from the looks of things that a couple of bucks may have been sparring there...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/PulledRoots.jpg

This is some IW Wintergreen brassica that was planted later but still untouched...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/IWCnBrassicas.jpg

These are late planted brassicas planted 9-1 and they are doing well and notice they are over powering the oats and rye already....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/9-1brassicas10-10.jpg

This is brassicas broadcast into soybeans that germinated and are growing just fine!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Sep1brassicasinbeans.jpg

I sprayed some mature grasses with Select and they are starting to die and the brassicas are unharmed....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SprayedwSelect.jpg

I've already posted pics from the other farm where deer have grazed ALL varieties relentlessly since August but I have exclusion cages so we'll see how that goes also.

In short purchase your brassica seed from whom ever you wish...deer simply do not care! That being said, nannyslayer can send you a bag of awesome brassica seed or you can call Welters...either way you'll save some dollars and it won't make a hill a beans difference to the deer... :)

If you prefer the more expensive "big buck on the bag" seed...it will work just fine.....just don't try to convince me that it is........better....... ;)

[ajadams]

Here is a couple pictures of one of my plots that the right side has been clover for a few years and the left just brome.
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/PA110914.JPG

In this picture it is the left side that was clover. A little foxtail but plenty of food.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/PA110916.JPG

So far the only thing thats hitting this is my dad. He keeps picking my turnips, I guess they do taste pretty good.

[risto2351]

Brassicas were not looking very good in this plot a few weeks ago.

They still are not very high but look a little better.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06201.jpg

Found out why they have not been growing very well though.
Darn deer have been eating them.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06203.jpg



http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06202.jpg



This plot is filling in nicely.



http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06206.jpg



http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06207.jpg



Even have some nice turnips.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06208.jpg



http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06210.jpg



Planted some in the corn to see what would happen.
Won't be huge but will hopefully grow some more.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06205.jpg



http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06216.jpg



http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06217.jpg



Should be plenty of food for them this fall and winter.

[ironwood]

Here's some I planted in the corn. This spot was a little thin, but is was a good place of a deer to stand. :)

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/10-11-08_harvest_006resized.jpg

[ironwood]

This spot was planted on 8-8-08. The dirt was tilled 7-1-08 then sprayed with roundup around the end of July. Because of a break down I was unable to pack this so I spread it ahead of a rain. It looked a little bleek, the first photo is August 31st. The second is Sept 15th. This stand looks very sweet today.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/Allen_9-19-08_025resized.jpg

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3041/Allen_9-19-08_271resized.jpg

[dbltree]

Quote:
This stand looks very sweet today



I can see the deer approve! Thanks for sharing the pics Mike :)

Central Iowa's brassicas......



I tried getting them in the last week of July "wet or dry plant turnips on the 25th of July" but with a heavy soaking that week I had to wait until the 4th of August to get them planted. I started with a order from Welter seeds and made a custom blend of 1# Purple Tops, 1/2# Barkant Turnip, 1/2# Appin Turnip, 1/3# Pasja Hybrid Brassica, 1/3# Bonar Rape,1/3# Dwarf Essex Rape per acre for a total of 3# per acre.


http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3090/medium/Measuring_Seed.JPG



August 4th I spread the seed with a hand seeder set on the finest setting on freshly disced ground. Gave it one pass with the cultipacker and waited and waited for rain. We received almost 1" a few weeks after planting but with available ground moisture and heavy dew most mornings it has done just fine.
The pictures taken below were 34 days apart. 1 week ago I spread fertilizer before a rain that should help quite a bit. Looks like we will have plenty of quality forage to help the deer through the winter if things continue as planned.



http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3090/medium/Brassica_8_4_08.JPG
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3090/medium/Brassicas_9_6_081.JPG

[ironwood]

They have been eating acorns there. It looks like they have not touched any of it yet.

[dbltree]

Some brassicas in one plot got pretty yellow earlier so I topdressed them with some nitrogen 9-21

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Yellowbrassicas.jpg

They were being grazed heavily and plenty of competition from the "self seeded" oats that came up when I tilled them under.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Poorcolor.jpg

Three weeks later they show a marked difference!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BEBrassica10-16.jpg

Brassicas love nitrogen and if they are heavily grazed like this field, then extra N will keep them growing.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/10-16Brassicas.jpg

I just used some high nitrogen lawn fertilizer that I picked up on sale and it worked fine. 46% Urea would normally be the ticket.

[dbltree]

We had our first major freeze here in SE Iowa on the 28th when temps "officially" hit 25 degrees in Fairfield, however it read 23 at our place.

I took this pic a couple days before it froze and this plot has not been touched. It includes all the brands and varieties mentioned earlier in this thread.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Oct25brassicas.jpg

Typically they don't eat brassicas on this farm but will devour the turnips later in the winter. This is just another reason to include both rape and turnips in your brassica mixture.

The other farm, the exact same brassicas have been mowed from the get go as they have done every year I have planted them.

Why? Deer adapt I think, to feeding on safe available food sources and perhaps even more so where choosing more traditional feeds may get them shot at...

No need for a freeze here, they find them quit tasty already...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/GrazedBrassicanpeas.jpg

Unfortunately there will be no "turnips" left for the late season on this farm because they will have been grazed to heavily.

What about other options with brassicas?

They are so easy to broadcast into standing corn and beans and so inexpensive. Quality seed is available for $1.50 to $5 a pound and at 3-5#'s per acre it just doesn't make sense not to take advantage of it.

These were broadcast into standing soybeans in early September but I would broadcast them at the first hint that leaves are turning.

I used field rye and brassicas here:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/RyenBrassicas.jpg

What about mixing brassicas with other crops?

Looking at the first pic you can see that brassicas planted early (as they should be) will out compete any other plants but late planted plots can be mixed.

This pic shows oats and brassicas planted Sept. 1st and you can see where I got them a little thicker they have over powered the oats.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Oct25brassicasoats.jpg

Late planted brassicas will never have enough growing time to provide maximum forage yield but they can extend the life of an oat plot as the brassicas will last after the oats have frozen.

Mixing some brassicas in is also a way of getting deer a little "acclimated" to them and being certain that they will use your plot regardless if they like brassicas or not.

This buck is feeding on oats while not touching the brassicas mixed in.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BuckinOats.jpg

If your not sold on brassicas or haven't had success with them in the past, throw a little brassica seed in with your cereal grains to keep "testing" to see if they will learn to eat them.

When mixing, sow the larger seeds first and then the smaller brassicas and use a lighter seeding rate of 1-2#'s per acre.

That's only going to set you back 5 bucks and allow you to keep your options open rather then writing brassicas off for good.

Brassicas have the potential for a tremendous amount of very high quality forage once deer decide to feed on them. If turnips and rape are mixed the turnip roots can be a draw well into the new year.

They also are a way to take advantage of nitrogen from a worn out clover or alfalfa plot and have their own soil building attributes from their deer tap roots.

We'll check on these in a week or so and see what effect if any the freeze had on these brassicas and if it had any effect on usage.:)

[Limb Chicken]

Brassica plot Nov. 2nd. Hope they eat them... :)

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/3006/DSC02219.jpg

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/DSC02222.jpg

[dbltree]

Quote:
Winner gets the honor of being Mr. Big Turnip 2008.




Sounds to much like Mr. Potato Head...

Update on my brassicas, two different farms, different deer, same brassicas both places, whicj include Biologic, Tecomate, Wintergreens, Bullseye and a mix of varieties from Welter seed.

The long and short is still this...if they like brassicas they will eat all of them regardless of brand. If they refuse them, they will snub their noses at ALL of them regardless of brand.

So plant whatever you like because it's a little like trucks and tractors...the only thing different is the price.... ;)

All of the brands and varieties have performed well so let's start with pics form the farm were they haven't touched them yet.

They have been repeatedly frozen now with temps to 12 degrees

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/11-21brassicaplot.jpg

Which has wilted them pretty heavily here in late November

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Frozenturnips.jpg

The Tecomate included clovers and chicory which is a complete waste because the forage rape just over powers everything.

You can see by this pic that there is no light and no room for other plants

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Nolight.jpg

This is a closeup of the Bullseye brassica mix from nannyslayer. It's very green and did very well but I don't see much for turnip roots?

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BEcloseup.jpg

Lot of forage for sure!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BEforage.jpg

This is the only root I could find, have any others noticed roots on the BE or is it just mine? I actually think this one is a radish.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BEturnip.jpg

One thing is clear, brassicas are like corn, they love Nitrogen. Feed them 75# of actual nitrogen per acre and you'll have some awesome forage and roots to boot.

All of these were fertilized heavily.

Here's a Biologic root

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BiologicRoot.jpg

These are some turnip roots from the Welters varieties like Appin and Barkant.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Turniproot-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/AppinTurnip.jpg

Some are being pulled

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Pulledroot2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Appinroots.jpg

These were planted Sept 1st, heavily fertilized and mixed with oats and you can see not an oat in sight!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tothick-1.jpg

Compare that to a few feet away where I planted them very thinly and you can see that the oats dominated.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Thinner.jpg

If mixing with cereal grains plant at only 1-2# per acre or even less.

Now to the other farm, where they have been heavily grazed right from the get go

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/HeavyGrazing-2.jpg

These had volunteer oats that I tilled under to compete with but deer hammered them both pretty hard.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/11-21Brassicasinoats.jpg

The roots are already being eaten

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Roots4.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Roots2.jpg

They are all much smaller because they plant has been grazed so hard it has no reserves for the root.

There are all the same brassicas as the first pics just different deer (as in too many... )

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Roots1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Roots3.jpg

I only top dressed the brassicas on this farm so next year I'll go ahead and till in nitrogen when I plant as I did the plot in the first pics.

The long season Kale and Swedes that I planted in the spring really show up now that the Berseem clover has died.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/11-21Kale.jpg

The deer have showed it no mercy either...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/GrazedKale-1.jpg

Nannyslayer has some new brassica mixes to try this next year and I might see how the sugar beets do compared to brassicas.

Brassica/Sugar beet blend (http://www.brierridgeplotseed.com/ProductGuide/Deer/ECMD010344.aspx)

Brassica seed blend (http://www.brierridgeplotseed.com/ProductGuide/Deer/ECMD010340.aspx)

Sugar beets (http://www.brierridgeplotseed.com/ProductGuide/Deer/ECMD010346.aspx)

If you have pics of your brassicas, please post them and share your results.

oh...and don't forget your super duper monster turnips for the Mr. Turnip of the year award!

Monster Turnip Contest (http://www.iowawhitetail.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=311851#Post311851)

[Fishbonker]

It looks like the deer might be nibbling on my turnips some. Can't tell a difference in preference between Bullseye and regular purple top yet, but I'm not 100% sure the deer are eating either, yet.

Bullseye, notice how big the greens are. They were planted pretty heavy so that may have affected their bulb.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/big_turnip_004.jpg

Purple top on left (bottom) and bullseye on right (top). Again, the bullseye are much leafier and aren't quite as wilted as the purple tops. Kinda hard to tell from the photo.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/big_turnip_005.jpg

Big purple tops. Most are baseball to croquet ball in size.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/big_turnip_009.jpg

The 'Bonker

[dbltree]

Quote:
It will be real interesting to see how hard they hit the turnip plots this year.




Keep us posted on usage up in the "north country"

Update on my brassicas...drastic night and day difference between my two farms despite the fact that all brassica varieties and types were planted both places.

On my high deer density farm the brassicas are just plain...GONE!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/12-12Brassicasat80.jpg

They have grubbed them down to the roots and then some!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/12-12Brassicasgone.jpg

I found a "frozen leaf" here and there...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/FrozenBrassicaleaf.jpg

or bit's of what was a brassica plant...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicaeaten.jpg

Basically every bit of available forage has been eaten! Even the long season Kale and Swedes...gone! All that is left is the dead Berseem clover that was planted with the brassicas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/12-12BerseemKaleplanting.jpg

At the home place, they continue to snub their noses at brassicas however they have plenty to eat, including alfalfa, rye and freshly harvested corn and beans.

The severe cold now down to 8 degrees at nights "wearing" down the plants although they still offer some great foraging.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/12-12Brassicaathome.jpg

In this picture Brian's Bullseye brassicas seem to be the tallest and upright at this point but do not have any turnips.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/FrozenbrassicasatHome.jpg

The Welters varieties have the most/largest turnips!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Bigturnip.jpg

In fact, if I could get them out of the frozen soil...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Daddyturnip.jpg

I bet I could give someone a run for their money in the Monster Turnip contest!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Frozenturnip-1.jpg

Some things to consider, if deer adapt to and use your brassicas then it's good to know that brassicas can yield up to 3-5 ton of dry matter per acre or upwards 40 tons wet forage!!

200 bushel corn (not likely in most food plots but...) would yield upwards of 5+ tons of feed and at a VERY high cost! Brian could restate the costs but were talking hundreds of dollars per acre not to mention the difficulty in getting equipment to plant it.

Brassicas however need only a 90 day growing window. Planted in late July at a costs of $12 to 20 an acre for seed and roughly 80-90 bucks an acre for urea (46% nitrogen) at 75# actual N per acre.

Generally brassicas if well fertilized won't need any herbicide and both rape and turnips can be grazed and will regrow during the growing season.

They make a great rotation for worn out clover fields and the turnip roots will be a draw well after the New Year.

My goal this next year is to fertilize very heavily on the high deer density farm and increase acres and see if I can get maximum forage production capable of feeding/attracting and holding deer through the late anterless season.

At the home farm I will continue to plant but concentrate more on "root" varieties to provide a food source when every thing else is gone.

Brian has some new seed to try as well as the old standbys...so it should prove interesting!

Some links with great facts and info about brassicas:

Forage Brassicas (http://www.ipm.msu.edu/pdf/drought_forage_brassicas.pdf)

Brassicas for Forage (http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/forage/pubs/97notebook/fora26.pdf)

Brassicas by BARUSA (http://www.barusa.com/Products_Forage/Barnapoli.pdf)

Modern Forage - Brassicas (http://www.modernforage.com/Annual_Brassica.html)

Brassica Crops To Extend Grazing Season (http://www.preferredseed.com/pdf/Brassica%20Crops%20To%20Extend%20Grazing%20Season% 20%282%29.pdf)

Use of Brassica Crops in Grazing Systems (http://www.uwex.edu/ces/forage/pubs/brassica.html)

Brassicas for deer food plots (http://www.whitetailstewards.com/articlesonsite/deerhabitatmanagement/brassicas.htm)

Use of brassica crops to extend grazing season (http://www.grazeny.com/Information/brassicas.pdf)



Fertility and Lime Requirements:

Good soil fertility is very important for good yields. Soil tests should be taken to assure proper fertilization. Lime acid soils to pH 6.0.

Fertilizers should be applied at the time of seeding or within 3 days of seeding to give the crop a competitive edge on weeds.

Apply 100 lb/acre nitrogen to soils containing 2 to 5% organic matter, 120 lb/acre if less than 2% organic matter and 60 to 80 lb/acre if more than 5% organic matter.

Requirements for phosphorus and potassium are similar to those of a small grain.

In Wisconsin and Minnesota, when soil tests are in the medium range, about 20 to 30 lb/acre of P2O5 and 120 lb/acre of K2O should be applied

Fertilizer applications should be banded at least 2 in. to the side and below the seed or broadcast. Boron and sulfur may also be needed. If the soil tests "low" in boron, apply 1 lb boron/acre on sandy soils, and twice this amount on other soils. Apply 10 to 15 lb of S/acre if a soil sulfur test indicates a need for this element.





Turnip (http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/afcm/turnip.html)

PLANT NUTRIENTS AND THEIR FUNCTIONS (http://www.krishiworld.com/html/soil_ferti2.html)

Brassica Guide (http://www.agriseeds.co.nz/downloads/Brassica%20guide%202008.pdf)

Brassica Book (http://www.agricom.co.nz/documents/related%20publications/brassica_book.pdf)

Growing Brassica Crops (http://www.farminfo.org/forage/brassica.htm)

Forage Brassica Facts (http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/146730/forage-brassicas-quality-crops-for-livestock-production.pdf)

[dbltree]

Gee whiz! Drop the temps to minus 12, add in some howling winds for a wind chill in the minus 30's, pileup a little snow and, you know...those turnips get down right tasty!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/12-25-08Brassicas.jpg

Feeding on what's left of foliage and the turnips...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/FeedingonTurnips.jpg

Digging around for anything tasty

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DecBrassicas-1.jpg

Here's what the plot looks like now...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/12-25Brassicas.jpg

Remember, that plot had all the brands and varieties and I still have found no difference except in the price of the seed... ;)

[Fishbonker]

I walked past my turnips last week. The deer ate some of the foliage down to the snow but didn't dig any deeper. I'll have to check again this weekend.

The 'Bonker

[ajadams]

My brassicas remain untouched, like always. I have never had good luck them. Just keep planting them in hopes they will eat them someday. Might turn this plot into milo next year to give it a try.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/Picture_0081.jpg

The only tracks here go around the brassicas and straight towards the corn.

[risto2351]

The snow and ice have made it hard on my brassicas and turnips.

On the upper half the brassicas are now buried.

While on the lower half they are iced in but are exposed and have been nibbled on.

Hopefully today's temps will help thaw them out.

They never seem to nibble though when I am there hunting.

Only seeing small tracks into and out. The buttons sure know where they are at.


http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06962.jpg

[IMG]http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC06961.jpg

[Limb Chicken]

Just an update, sorry no pictures. I will try to get some next time. They found the brassicas and I can't believe the amount of tracks, pawing, bedding. I will definitely be planting them again next year. ;)

[risto2351]

Limb,
Did you put corn on them or did they find they by themselves??

How much snow do you have down there right now covering them?

Thanks

[Daver]

Limb - were you one of the people that reported that the deer did not touch brassica's in your area? (I can't remember.)

You should have a shed hot spot there too.

[Limb Chicken]

I didn't put any corn out. I would say there is anywhere from 5 to 15 inches of snow in different parts of the field. They are digging to get down to them. I think it helped that they were hitting the rye hard and they may have lost track of where the rye was and "discovered" the new groceries and I can tell you they really like them... I had three does bedding within 5 yards of them when I approached and really seemed upset they had to leave.

Daver, yes they had not touched them as of January 8th.

My ambition yesterday was to get a treestand down I had been too lazy to take down and after seeing all the activity in the plot I ended up walking trails for 2 hours looking for bone. No luck but when they fall there should be a few in the plot. Deer that were using the corn a bean fields have now made significant trails to the brassicas.

For what it is worth it is Hunters Specialties fall blend. It came up fantastic and there is a ton of food for them. I will plant it again next year.

[Daver]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Daver, yes they had not touched them as of January 8th.
</div></div>

Interesting, that is kind of what I thought you would say, I seemed to vaguely recall that you were one of the guys that had reported that deer ignored your brassicas. I have never had them ignore them at my place, but have been curious that several others have experienced that. I dunno, maybe the deer in my area were already pre-conditioned to pursue them because others in my general area were planting turnips several years before I started to. Whoda thunk that you have to "train" those dang deer to eat right? /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

At any rate, it sounds like "your" deer have crossed over now. Maybe the lesson for all of us is that if you are planting brassicas in an area that they have not previously been present in is to add some rye or alfalfa in or around them to lure them in and "hook" them for life. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

I have planted the HS fall blend before too with good results.

[risto2351]

Do you guys know what is in the H.S. fall blend?

I think they would of ate mine also but the ice
and then the 30" drift of top of half of them hurt me.

Next year a snow fence is in order.

[dbltree]

Do you guys know what is in the H.S. fall blend?

I think they would of ate mine also but the ice
and then the 30" drift of top of half of them hurt me.

Next year a snow fence is in order.



It contains the same basic brassicas as most "brassica" mixes including dwarf essex rape. It's a good mix but it's nothing out of the ordinary, it's just that cold weather finally encouraged Limbs deer to give them a try.

There is no such thing as a "bad" brassica mix...they will either love them or hate them... ;)

[WhitetailWarrior]

I planted 1.5 acres of Whitetail Institute Winter Greens and they were all gone by Thanksgiving. I will admit that I do have a high deer density but they hammered them. The only thing left was stems... I am going to plant 4-5 acres of them next year.

[dbltree]

they were all gone by Thanksgiving.



I wish mine would last that long...

I'm going to really pour the nitrogen to my brassicas on the farm where they hit them hard and plant more acres also.

If they like brassicas, it's awesome feed and one thing I have found is "brand" doesn't make a hill a beans difference.

They either devour them all or ignore them until late in the season.

This plot on one of my farms has ALL the major brands and varieties in it, including Wintergreens but they never touched a leaf on ANY of it!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Oct25brassicas.jpg

All the same brands and varieties on the other farm got absolutely murdered before November...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/HeavyGrazing-2.jpg

One can plant any "flavor" brassicas you choose and it will get the same results so I'll be darned if I'm going to pay 2-3 times as much for seed from a "pretty bag"... ;)

[Fishbonker]

Finally starting to hit mine also. Like Limb, they have to paw through about 12 inches or so of snow to get to them. Don't know why they started to eat them. They have been coverd with snow since December. I went back to back tunrips so this year I better rotate to something else.

The 'Bonker

[dbltree]

Finally starting to hit mine also. Like Limb, they have to paw through about 12 inches or so of snow to get to them. Don't know why they started to eat them. They have been covered with snow since December. I went back to back turnips so this year I better rotate to something else.

The 'Bonker



I checked on my brassicas that had not been eaten earlier and the patch is solid mass of tracks and pawing now.

We don't have that much snow here but still the combo of cold, snow and the fact that they have cleaned up the "easy picken's" in crop fields means they are kicking into survival mode and eating what ever they can find.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/LateJanBrassicas.jpg

They are eating both some of the leaves left over and the turnips

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/LateSeasonTurnips.jpg

Most of the turnips have at least some signs of "gnawing"... ;)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/01-29-09Brassicas.jpg

That patch had ALL the varieties and brands in it and still, they are feeding in all of it equally.

Turnips are turnips! :)

[ajadams]

I went for a walk today and checked out my plots. The rye is still under several inches of snow and ice and no action taking place. They have been hammering the picked been field. And Finally the brassicas. After three years of planting them I was about to give up. But they figured it out now.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/P1311085.JPG

A month ago

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/Picture_0081.jpg

They have eaten all the leaves and are starting to dig deeper.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/P1311084.JPG

They have been digging all over. You can see some of the tracks on the far hill side. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/P1311087.JPG

Here is all the tracks going from the beans to the brassicas.

http://www.iowawhitetail.com/photopost/data/500/medium/P1311086.JPG

I might just have to plant them again next year, along with a bean plot.

[dbltree]

Guys, thanks for all the info. I never planted brassicas before but it seems like a shame to have all those turnips under the frozen ground. Have you ever tried loosening them up in October before it freezes with a plow or cultivator? In theory, the deer would be able to get at the bulk of the food easier. Just curious.



I have seen them root the entire area up just like hogs had been loosed in the plot! No worries about them getting to them if they want them.

Most of my turnips are actually pretty big and sticking above the ground like this:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Turnips1.jpg

Deer are pretty resourceful animals and don't need much help in that regard, usually they just have plenty of crop waste grain to feed on before getting hungry enough to attack the turnips.

[dbltree]

First I know you're supposed to rotate them to avoid diseases and so forth. Does that mean don't plant them two consecutive years with nothing in between. If I have buckwheat in a plot during summer then disc in and replant to brassicas in late July and back to buckwheat the following summer and so on is that ok. Or should you keep brassicas to a every other year rotation.



It's recommended to NOT plant them for more then two years in the same spot but if you plant a cover crop in the spring and till that under I think you can get away with it for a longer period time.

Buckwheat is ok...but why buckwheat? Frost seeded red clover or spring seeded berseem clover are much better options because they will be adding some nitrogen each time they are tilled under, along with copious amounts of organic matter.

Buckwheat doesn't have all of those attributes and brassicas are heavy nitrogen users...just something to keep in mind.

It's great that you see the advantage of improving your soil and using a green manure cover crop but now go a step further and plant a legume cover crop rather then a "nitrogen user"...



how early can you plant them, if I planted in june would they be that much taller by fall or do they mature before that??



Short season brassicas (rape and turnips) have a 60-90 day growing season after which they will mature and go to seed, then start to rot and smell!

Planting them earlier will leave you with a rotting mess by October!! Plant them in late July, feed them well with 150#'s of urea and they will give all they can possibly produce by fall.

If you want to further maximize yields then switch to LONG SEASON brassicas (Swedes and Kale)that have 150-220 day growing seasons.

Plant these brassicas in early spring and again add 150-200#'s of urea along with P&K (after soil testing). Consider top dressing another 50-75#'s of urea just before a rain in late July to further increase yields.

Spray any grasses that invade with Select herbicide as needed and you'll have a tremendous amount of tonnage compared to short season brassicas.

Here's a selection of short season brassicas:

Short season brassica seed (http://www.welterseed.com/productItems.aspx?id=3&org=0)

Here's an example of a long season brassica mic:

Long Season Brassica Seed (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=248)


Cooper Seeds (http://www.cooperseeds.com/pages/deer/fwindividual.html) has both Winton Swedes and Kestrel Kale

Adams Briscoe Seed (http://www.abseed.com/graphics/seedlist/prices.pdf) carries long season brassicas as well.


LONG SEASON BRASSICS

Quote:
Kale (Brassica oleracea L.)

Varieties of kale differ markedly in rate of establishment, stem development, time required to reach maturity, and in winterhardiness. The stemless type kale (e.g. Premier) has a faster rate of establishment than varieties which produce stems. Crop height of the stemless type is approximately 25 inches, whereas that of marrow stem kale is 60 inches with primary stems often 2 inches in diameter. Stemless kale attains maturity in approximately 90 days, allowing two crops/year, whereas varieties that develop stems require 150 to 180 days to attain maximum production. Premier has consistently survived winters in central Pennsylvania, whereas other varieties of kale usually are winter-killed in December.

Swede (Brassica napus L.)

Like turnip, swedes produce a large edible root. Yields are higher than those of turnip, but they grow slower and require 150 to 180 days to reach maximum production. Swedes usually produce a short stem (neck), but can have stems 2 1/2 feet long when grown with tall crops which shade the swede. Unfortunately, stem elongation is at the expense of root development. The variety Calder was found to be cold hardy in central Pennsylvania and thus ideal for stockpiling and late fall or early winter grazing. In general, all swede varieties are recommended for late fall grazing.





SHORT SEASON BRASSICAS

Quote:
Rape (Brassica napus L.)

Mature forage rape is one of the best crops available for fattening lambs and flushing ewes. Rape is a multistemmed crop with fibrous roots. The stems vary in length, diameter, and in palatability to livestock. Forage yields of spring- planted rape increase until plants become physiologically mature. Growth slows or ceases at maturity and yields plateau until leaves senesce and die. Varieties differ in when this occurs, however, Rangi rape retains its leaves longer than most varieties. Generally, yields of rape varieties in Pennsylvania are maximized with two , 90-day growth periods. However, performance of Emerald and Winfred rape varieties, is best with one 180-day growth period, and yields of rape hybrids were greatest with 60 days of growth before the first harvest and a 30-day growth period before the second harvest.

Turnip (Brassica rapa L.) or Turnip Hybrids

These crops grow very fast, reaching near maximum production levels in 80 to 90 days.

Studies in southwestern Pennsylvania showed that turnip can accumulate dry matter in October as fast as field corn does in August. Growing "out of season" (October/November) makes turnip a valuable crop for late fall grazing.

The proportions of tops and roots varies markedly depending on variety, crop age, and planting date. Research by the USDA Pasture Laboratory showed that turnip crops can vary from 90 percent tops/10 percent roots to 15 percent tops/85 percent roots. Some hybrids have fibrous roots which will not be readily grazed by livestock. All varieties produce primarily tops during the first 45 days of growth. Sixty to 90 days after seeding, turnip varieties such as Savannah and All Top continue to produce a high proportion of tops. During the same period, other turnip varieties have nearly equal top and root production and Purple Top has a greater root than top production.

The significance in the proportion of tops and roots is that the crude protein concentration (8 to 10%) of roots is approximately one-half of that in turnip tops. Therefore, greater root production tends to reduce the crude protein yield of the total crop. On the other hand, stockpiled tops appear to be more vulnerable to weather and pest damage than roots. Varieties differ in resistance to diseases, but this often is not evident until the crop is more than 80 days of age and the plants are reaching full production.

[dbltree]

Buckwheat is cheap and it grew exceptional for me in multiple locations.



That it is but it is also the exact same cost per acre as a plow down red clover. When you add the cost of the nitrogen you could have saved by including a legume...buckwheat then is suddenly more expensive and less productive.

You have on advantage in that you know deer love your brassicas so you just need to get the most out of them with good soil fertility and proper planting dates to maximize production!

Your liming and using plowdowns...kudos on doing it right! ;)

[dbltree]

This time of year the brassica plots are long ago dead but there are still two kinds of situations that can present different problems.

The worst is an uneaten brassica plot that has heavy leaf cover and rotting turnips left behind.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/MarchBrassicaPlot.jpg

You can see the heavy leaf cover left behind here

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Matofdeadleaves.jpg

and rotting turnips

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/DeadTurnips.jpg

I couldn't even scrape the frozen leaves away to expose the soil surface

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Frozenmatofleaves.jpg

Normally I encourage frost seeding a plowdown red clover this time of year into dead brassica plots but we need some exposed soil surface to do this.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/BrassicaPlotSurface.jpg

Heavily grazed brassicas will have 80% exposed soil surface not unlike soybean stubble

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Grazeddeadbrassicas.jpg

and there will be few turnips left behind

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Rottedturnips.jpg

Heavily grazed brassicas make a great surface to frost seed an inexpensive red clover into to provide a cover crop and awesome feed all spring and summer.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/MammothRedClover.jpg

The ungrazed areas however are better off tilled under and planted to a combo of oats and berseem clover, all of which can then be tilled under for a cereal grain plot this fall.

One can see that disease problems are more likely with ungrazed brassicas then those that have been grazed to the dirt.

Tilling the old brassicas under and planting a cover crop before the next brassicas would be wise if you prefer to re-plant brassicas in the same spot.

Rotation to a new crop is always best and eliminates disease problems..... :)

[dbltree]

Is there a long season brassica available that WILL create a turnip, similar to a purple top but takes longer to mature?

Swede (Brassica napus L.) (mentioned above) will do exactly that while kale is the long season version of rape.

Welter Seed carries a Long Season Mix (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=248) that has several swedes and kale in it.

Adams-Briscoe Seed carries them by the pound ABS seed list (http://www.abseed.com/graphics/seedlist/prices.pdf)

Maxi-Rack carries Swede seed (http://www.maxirack.com/poundseeds.html)

Here's a pic of the world record swede at 77#'s!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3429/3257198736_31ed462460.jpg?v=0

[SEIowaDeerslayer]

Swede (Brassica napus L.) (mentioned above) will do exactly that while kale is the long season version of rape.

Welter Seed carries a Long Season Mix (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=248) that has several swedes and kale in it.

Adams-Briscoe Seed carries them by the pound ABS seed list (http://www.abseed.com/graphics/seedlist/prices.pdf)

Maxi-Rack carries Swede seed (http://www.maxirack.com/poundseeds.html)

Here's a pic of the world record swede at 77#'s!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3429/3257198736_31ed462460.jpg?v=0

Holy buckets! That is something else!

[SEIowaDeerslayer]

I'm going to give that Big Buck Annual Mix a shot this year, looks like it'll do the trick. I'll post pics on how it does. I'm going to put the seeds in the ground this weekend. :)

[dbltree]

Some plants such as brassicas, buckwheat and rye have allelopathic chemicals that can prevent other plants from germinating and this knowledge can help us naturally control weeds with the right crop rotation combinations. Sometimes it can also prevent the beneficial establishment of a cover crop however and I would like to offer a case in point.

I frost seeded red clover into a brassica plot that was never eaten so the plants eventually froze and the leaves and stems covered the soil and here is the result in mid June.

The clover is barely a few inches high

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Clover/Frostseededredcloverinbrassicapatch.jpg

It did germinate but it struggles to grow at all and this plot was well fertilized last year

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Clover/Redcloverindeadbrassicapatch.jpg

A few feet away where there was no brassicas, the very same red clover seed is thriving.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Clover/FallseededcloverJune12.jpg

For this reason I would suggest tilling under a spent brassica plot in the spring and either follow it with oats and annual berseem clover or in late spring/early summer tilling and planting buckwheat as an interim cover crop until your next fall plot is ready to be planted.

A brassica plot in which everything has been eaten early in the fall may not be as bad however I noticed a very clear difference in two seperate sugarbeet plots this spring, one planted following brassicas had few weeds or grasses, the other following a clover crop was filled with foxtail and weeds.

Forage radishes also have allelopathic affects and can break up soil hardpan and feed deer at the same time so these things should all be kept in mind to take advantage of certain crops natural benefits... ;)

[corygnc]

What is earliest you guys recommend getting turnips and canola in? (SW Iowa)

Am going into an broken up brome field. Would you recommend fertilizer?

If so what kind and how much?

Thanks Very Much!!!!!!!

[dbltree]

What is earliest you guys recommend getting turnips and canola in? (SW Iowa)

Am going into an broken up brome field. Would you recommend fertilizer?

If so what kind and how much?

Thanks Very Much!!!!!!!

I'm going to plant mine next week Cory but anytime in late July thru early August is fine for our area.

Definitely add urea, up to 100#'s of actual nitrogen will spur lush heavy growth in brassicas. 150-200#'s of 46-0-0 will get you well in the ball park, just make sure you till it in well just before seeding.

If the soils are poor you can add some P&K also by adding 100-200#'s per acre of 6-24-24, 6-28-28 or 8-36-36 or just go with 400#'s of triple 19 and catch the all at the same time.

Fertilizer is pricey now...$30 a bag for 6-28-28 in Keo the other day!:rolleyes:

Cultipack, sow seed at 5# per acre and re-cultipack to cover in most soils.

I'm heading to Welters Saturday morning to pick up enough for nearly 30 acres :eek: :D

I'm going to include some oilseed radishes as well to help breakup hardpan and feed deer at the same time.;)

[bowhuntr311]

Dbltree, have you ever used the oilseed radishes for a foodplot before?

Is there a reason to till your fertilizer and then seed and cultipack it? Could a person fertilize and seed then just cultipack?

[dbltree]

Dbltree, have you ever used the oilseed radishes for a foodplot before?

Is there a reason to till your fertilizer and then seed and cultipack it? Could a person fertilize and seed then just cultipack?

Yes...I mixed radishes in last year and they scarfed em up like candy...:D

Cultipacking is usually not enough to get urea covered enough to prevent dentrification losses, so it's better to disc or till it in to the top 1-2" of soil, then cultipack, sow, cultipack.

If you have sandy soils then cultipacking might be enough but that stuff is to darn expensive to risk having "evaporate"...;)

[corygnc]

Dbltree,

When you till how deep do you go?

I bought a Woods tiller and it has:
PTO slip clutch protects drive system from damage if a root or rock is hit

I just cleared some locust trees (smaller) in a brome field and I've disced it with an offset disc (like a plow) and have gotten some good rains.

Will the tiller till thru a few roots or should I just disc it? I've picked most of them up

I've also just picked up a landscape rake off craigslist:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay_10551_10001_34484_-1______?rFlag=true&cFlag=1

that I think may provide a good seedbed also and gather roots at same time.

What would you do?

Thanks!

I am going to call my plots this year the DBLTREE plots (LOL)

[dbltree]

My tiller teeth are getting worn so it doesn't go as deep as yours will and it will tear those roots out, not a big deal except ti will probally wrap and you may need to cut them off at some point.

I've went thru all kinds of roots, stumps and rocks with mine and it does fine, but you can most likely do the job with your disc and get a long just fine.

No need to go deep for brassicas, they will do fine if broadcast on untilled ground providing they get rain to germinate them. Disc it up good, rake the junk off, level it off with the cultipacker, seed and cultipack again. :way:

[SEIowaDeerslayer]

Paul,

Do you think this weekend will be too early to put the brassica seed in the ground? I was wanting to do them next weekend but had something come up, didn't know if the 25th was too early.

[bowhuntr311]

If it was too early what would happen?

[SEIowaDeerslayer]

The turnips will rot and be unpalatable to deer during hunting season.

[bowhuntr311]

How long would they have to sit after being fully mature before they actually started to rot?
I would guess they would be just like a carrot, or radish in the garden. They can sit a couple weeks before they get so woody they start to split the outside, and then they would start to rot if the ground had enough mostisture. I would think if you had some pretty sandy soil that they would have alot less like to rot as compared to some real low ground that would hold ground moisture well.

[dbltree]

Paul,

Do you think this weekend will be too early to put the brassica seed in the ground? I was wanting to do them next weekend but had something come up, didn't know if the 25th was too early.

I'm hoping to plant mine tomorrow if it doesn't rain. Everything I'm planting has a 60-90 season coupled with the fact that I have intensive grazing pressure so no worries about rotting around here.:D

Basically we're looking for that 60-90 day window leading up to the average first frost date, but that can vary widely as well. Up north frost dates may be in September but in late October in MO, so everyone has to plant based on their own areas weather patterns. :)

[dbltree]

Well best layed plans gone awry by off and on rains all day here today, so maybe tommorrow?:confused:

Just a reminder that it's brassica planting time again and nannyslayer has some great brassica seed if your in his area or have him send you a bag. I tried the Bullseye seed he carries and it did very well last year.

I had several friends that when we pooled our order found we needed nearly 30 acres worth of brassica seed! :eek::D

So I decided to take a drive up north to Welter Seed & Honey to pick up my summer and fall seed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/WelterSeed.jpg

I picked up roughly a pound per acre of each

Dwarf Essex Rape Seed
Purple Top Turnips
Appin forage turnip
Barkant Forage Turnip
Barnapoli Rape Seed
Pasja Hybrid Brassica

It's no better or worse then any other seeds I have tried but in bulk it's the most reasonable at $2-3 a pound so worth the trip up there. For those planting a 1/2 acre or so cost isn't a huge factor and really almost any will work fine for you.

I posted this pic last year of a plot that contains strips of Biologic, WI Wintergreens, Tecomate, Bullseye ad the hybrid brassicas from Welters and so far no one can tell one from the other. ;)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas9-15.jpg

The only thing different is the price and on my other farm deer ate them all equally to the ground! :eek: :way:

Shop for your seed wherever you feel comfortable doing so with no worries about one being better or worse then the other. Some mixes do not contain turnips so check back in the previous posts for details in that regard.
Of all the ones I tested Puple Tops and Barkant Turnips seem to produce the largest roots while many of the forage turnips produce none at all. I always have a tough time choosing so I end up getting them all! :o:grin:

Remember to till in 100-200#'s of urea at planting, use caution not to over seed the tiny seeds (5#'s per acre), pack, spread seeds and re-pack.... ;)

[Justhunt87]

Seeding rates call for 3-6# per acre..... Whats the mean DBLTREE?

[SEIowaDeerslayer]

Seeding rates call for 3-6# per acre..... Whats the mean DBLTREE?

#'s of seed per acre. Maybe Paul could answer it better though.

[dbltree]

I usually plant 5 pounds of brassica seed per acre, mixing both rape and turnips in a blend of seeds which includes the following this year from Welter Seed at a per acre cost of $13.85


1#’s Barnapoli Rape @ $2.90 per #
1#’s Pasja Hybrid FT @ $3.10 per #
1#’s Purple Top Turnip @ $2.85 per #
1#’s Dwarf Essex Rape @ $2.00 per #
1/2#’s Appin Forage Turnip@ $3.10 per #
1/2#’s Barkant Forage Turnip@ $2.90 per #


I also mixed in Oilseed Radish at 5#'s per acre

[dbltree]

Got my brassicas plant July 23, 09 and the mix included the following from Welter Seed (http://www.welterseed.com/productItems.aspx?id=3&org=0)

Dwarf Essex Rape Seed
Purple Top Turnips
Appin forage turnip
Barkant Forage Turnip
Barnapoli Rape Seed
Pasja Hybrid Brassica
Oilseed Radish

I planted the mix at 5#'s per acre and closer to 8#s of the oilseed radish but I would mention there is no real need to plant ALL of those. Any combination of rape and turnips will give one feed well into the new year between the forage rape and the turnip roots.

I had an old clover plot that was becoming over run with brome, so I seized the oppurtunity to make use of the nitogen from the clover and kill off the grasses at the same time.

Clover is tough to kill with roundup but easily killed with tillage so I nuked the field with 2 quarts of roundup and a quart per acre of crop oil concentrate and still the clover didn't exactly keel over...

***CAUTION*** remember NOT to use 2-4D just before planting brassicas because residual effects will kill the emerging brassicas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Cloverafterroundupncropoil.jpg

The grasses however were toast and that was my main concern

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Glyphosatekilledclovergrass.jpg

I got out the big guns to break up the heavy sod

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Discingitdown.jpg

Then tilled all of the plots with my rear time tiller

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Read4brassicas.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Tilledreadytoplant.jpg

and then spread 200#'s pf 6-28-28 and 150-200#'s of 46-0-0 urea and re-tilled that in

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/6-28-28andurea.jpg

Then broadcasted the tiny seed with a small hand seeder closed down to the very smallest opening to keep from over seeding.

The oilseed radish seed is a hair bigger then the rape and turnip seed but I mixed it all together and it went thru just fine.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/OilSeedRadishseed.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/RadishSeed.jpg

After seeding I ran the cultipacker over everything to cover the seed and firm the seedbed, leaving it looking like this

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Jobdone.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Cultipackedafterseeding.jpg

It was a long day and the sun was setting when I finished, tired and sore and happy as a lark! :way:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Endoftheday.jpg

[Central Iowa]

Planted a majority of my brassicas today. Always heard from an old time plotter "wet or dry plant turnips the 25th of July" No pictures it was all I ccould do to get the work done. Happy plotting!

[bowhuntr311]

I planted these a week ago. And Im wondering now if I planted them too heavy or not heavy enough? I had a plastic bag inside of a paper bag labeled turnips. I received them from the MN Deer Hunters Association, however, I have no idea if they were STRAIGHT turnips or if it was a mix that was split? There were 2 kinds of seeds, all same sized, all dark colored, like most brassica seeds. Maybe rape and turnips?

http://personalpages.uslink.net/~deanl/bsckas1wkcl11.JPG

I tried to use my hand as reference.
http://personalpages.uslink.net/~deanl/bsckas1wkcl1.JPG

[dbltree]

Hard to say but most likely a mix of both...they are planted plenty thick enough but hopefully the deer will help you out with that! :D

Here's both rape and turnip seed mixed

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SmallStuff.jpg

[risto2351]

Well I started here last Sunday.


http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC07584.jpg

Had the tractor come on in.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC08548.jpg

Put a little fertilizer on and disked it in.


http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC08549.jpg


Did a little cultipacking.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC08550.jpg

Had the boy help with the mixing of the seeds.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC08553.jpg

Broadcasted the seed.

Cultipacked again.



Done

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC08607.jpg


Had to cultipack with the ATV on this one.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC08640.jpg


Hopefully it will rain now.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC08642.jpg


Now to see if it will grow.

[dbltree]

Nice work Tony! Was there red clover in that rye that you disked under?

Mike from WI sent these pics of his brassicas coming up already!

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/dbltree2000/Brassicas/blindplot005.jpg

Mike tilled under oats and berseem clover, another great soil building combination, and then planted his brassicas.

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/dbltree2000/Brassicas/blindplot004.jpg

He had 7000 gallons of hog manure added this spring and tilled in 50#'s per of urea when he planted so...stand back! That's stuff is gonna grow!:D

[risto2351]

Nope,
I opted for the white clover instead. Figured I would get a little
more nitrogen for my brassicas. Also like the height of the white clover.

[dbltree]

Nope,
I opted for the white clover instead. Figured I would get a little
more nitrogen for my brassicas. Also like the height of the white clover.

Wise thinking! White clover can fix considerably more N and is certainly easier to till under and cost per acre is really no different!

The only thing red clover has over white is more pounds of dry matter per acre to till under but other then that, white is probally as good or better choice. :way:

[risto2351]

Already have a few sprouting after only a week.
Now we need some rain.
They look a little thick but I would rather have that than have the deer mad at me.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC08649.jpg

[dbltree]

We got a soaker this morning! I checked an mine are popping up with all this heat and humidity, a nice rain every week would be nice now! :way:

Don't forget you can add forage radish to your brassica mix, with your fall winer rye/pea planting, or over seed into standing soys or corn to breakup soil hardpan, scavenge nitrogen, inhibit spring weed growth and feed deer this fall!

Welters has regular oilseed radish and an improved variety called GoundHog brand radish (not listed...just ask for it when you call)

GroundHog Radish (http://www.ampacseed.com/groundhog.htm)

Oilseed forage radish seed (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=418)

Just another little trick to spending less on fuel and fertilizer and still ending up with better results!

[Hat Trick]

I haven't had the time to post pics, but I'll see if I can get that done in the future. I actually videotaped the whole process from start to finish on all 3 Brassica plots. They are all new plots as well. I probably overseeded them, hopefully that isn't a huge deal. The success rate was 87% on the average for the three seeds I planted (Bonar, DER, and PTT). So I planted 12 lbs per acre, giving me a net of almost 10.5 lbs per acre:grin: I've seen people plant anywhere from 3-10 lbs per acre and the seed was so small I was worried. I'm sure they are going to be THICK:cool:They had already germinated and started to come up after only a weeks time. I planted on the 25th of July in North Central Missouri. I will take some pics this weekend and post them beginning of next week. I hope I didn't screw them up by planting too much but man did they look good coming up after only a week. They are going to have plenty to eat, I hope they do like them! Around one of my plots I spent over 60 man hours manipulating their travel to the plot and set my stand in a spot where I funnel them into the plot. I have pics of them using my funnel so that part appears to be working. I am extrememly happy on when I planted, we have gotten 3 timely rains on them so far, and now the weather is turning hot, just like I want and then more rain is in the forcast for early next week.

[jjohnson]

Already have a few sprouting after only a week.
Now we need some rain.
They look a little thick but I would rather have that than have the deer mad at me.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC08649.jpg


Fear Not Tony. Rain should be here Thurs and Friday... Looking Good

[risto2351]

JJ,

Did you plant yours across the way from me??

If so how are they coming along?

Hope you are right on the rain.

[jjohnson]

Haven't planted anything yet. Just haven't had the time. Hopefully I'll have something in the ground next week.

It's Raining too...

[dbltree]

Here are my brassicas 15 days after being planted (July 23rd planting date)

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/dbltree2000/Brassicas/Brassicaplot.jpg

We have had a couple good rains but some dry stretches as well so germination is a little spotty in places with some still coming up.

Couple places I must have overlapped a little and got them a tad too thick

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/dbltree2000/Brassicas/ThickBrassicas.jpg

Some places they are just now coming up

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/dbltree2000/Brassicas/8-6-09Brassicasemerging.jpg

A few thin spots here and there but really, thinner is better for optimum growth

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/dbltree2000/Brassicas/Unevenbrassicas.jpg

but for the most part the stands look great and with timely rain they should grow rapidly now

http://i838.photobucket.com/albums/zz307/dbltree2000/Brassicas/08-06-09Brassicas.jpg

I tilled in plenty of urea so I'm hoping they will keep ahead of grazing...last year they were being heavily grazed by Sept first and wiped out by Oct 1st (so much for waiting for a frost... ;) )

I need to get a cam put out there and see what all goes on out there..... :eek::D

[risto2351]

JJ,
Thanks for the rain dance. It is much appreciated.
With the hot weather coming it was a welcome relief.
Sure hated to see all that effort go to waste.

Will be planting oats and peas later in the month.

Good luck on your plots.

[Hat Trick]

Here are my Brassicas after 14 days, planted July 25th. You can tell where I started the 4 wheeler seeder:D

The South Pasture Plot

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/033.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/038.jpg

The Crossing Plot

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/045.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/046.jpg

14 Acres Plot

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/052.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/060.jpg

[dbltree]

14 Acres Plot

Holy Cats!:eek: That's some serious brassicas!:D

Nice work...they look great!! :way:

[Hat Trick]

Holy Cats!:eek: That's some serious brassicas!:D

Nice work...they look great!! :way:

Ha ha, that's just the name of the plot, its only an acre:D I'm sure you were joking, but just in case, lol.

[letemgrow]

I am going to scatter seed some rape this next week I am back since the 1 acre bean plot did not get very good germination and the beans that came up were mowed down quickly. Any particular rape variety that is better than the others??

[Hat Trick]

I am going to scatter seed some rape this next week I am back since the 1 acre bean plot did not get very good germination and the beans that came up were mowed down quickly. Any particular rape variety that is better than the others??


DER = Dwarf Essex Rape

[dbltree]

its only an acre

Whew! :D

DER = Dwarf Essex Rape

Yep..that's waht I would use! :way:

[cwhite]

Just planted a plot on Sunday and when I checked it last night the little buggers were popping through the soil already. 3 days, amazing!

[dbltree]

My brassicas are a little over 3 weeks old now....(planted July 23rd)

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicas3weeks.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicaplot8-19.jpg

Already being grazed heavily!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Grazedbrassicas8-19.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicasanddeertracks.jpg

Growth is lush and robust from being well fertilized with plenty of nitrogen and blessed with plenty of rain!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicas8-19-09.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brasicagrowth3weeks.jpg

Notice how thick the brassicas are and how quikly they have canopied! You can see why I don't reccomend planting other crops with them as they will suffucate them quickly!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassiccanopy.jpg

In this pic you can see the oildseed radish amongst the rape and turnips, it's leaves appearing more uneven or frilly then typical forage brassicas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicasandradish.jpg

These are in a tree planting beside a field pea planting and soon to be rows of winter rye/oats n forage peas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicasintreeplanting.jpg

Utilizing the tree planting area gives me more food plot space, more feed and because the rows are a natural travel corridor it allows me to compare usage of the various plot crops. I can compare each crops ability to survive heavy grazing and also compare how each one lasts into the late season. ;)

[tlambert]

Wow, that plot looks amazing!

[SaskGuy]

Fantastic photo diary Paul. I wish I had access to some ground to work and plant b/c I learn alot from your posts. Beautiful plot.

[Hat Trick]

Yours are just ahead of mine for some reason Paul, maybe the nitrogen you tilled in? I did plant 2 days later, maybe that's it. Mine are coming on really strong now. We have had 9 inches of rain in the past 3 days since I took these:( However my father said they are looking even better, go figure.

South Pasture Plot:

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/115-1.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/111.jpg

Someone found them.:grin: This is a big buck that I know well! He was in two of my plots. No grazing though.

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/117.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/118-1.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/133-1.jpg

The Crossing Plot:

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/185.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/188.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/191.jpg

The 14 Acres Plot:

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/213.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/215.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/217.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/236.jpg

I live for the weekends to check my plots for growth, take pictures of them and to check for tracks. I'm pretty partial to my 7 trail cams too though.

[dbltree]

Almost as an afterthought I stuck up an exclusion cage in my brassica plot and returned 2 days later to work on some mowing and couldn't believe what I saw!

In two days they have eaten nearly 2 acres of brassicas to 1/2 of what they were!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Exclusioncageafter2days.jpg

This is looking down on the young (protected) brassicas on 8-21

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicas8-21-09inExclusionCage.jpg

Grazing is very intense!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Severegrazing.jpg

You would think they were starving!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Intensegrazing.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Hardhitbrassicas.jpg

Only 2 days before it looked like this

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicas3weeks.jpg

They have peas, clover, alfalfa and soybeans all side by side with brassicas that are in 5 different plots...yet they are literally kiling them!

[Central Iowa]

Paul you need to feed lead!

[bowhuntr311]

Dbltree

After really studying your pics, I wondered if you planted on the heavy side, or if thats what its supposed to look like?

It really looks like your not going to have any late season hunting over those if they keep that amount of grazing.

[dbltree]

Dbltree

After really studying your pics, I wondered if you planted on the heavy side, or if thats what its supposed to look like?

It really looks like your not going to have any late season hunting over those if they keep that amount of grazing.

5-6#'s per acre which is normal seeding rate ;)

If your interested in top dressing your brassicas with some additional nitrogen, there are three main sources that may be available to plotters.

The following is taken from this link

The Fertilizer Institute (http://www.tfi.org/factsandstats/fertilizer.cfm)

Urea (46-0-0) — A solid nitrogen product typically applied in granular form. It can be combined with ammonium nitrate and dissolved in water to make liquid nitrogen fertilizer known as urea ammonium nitrate or UAN solution.

Ammonium nitrate (34-0-0) — Another solid nitrogen product typically applied in granular form is valued for its use on pasture lands and specialty crops such as citrus.

Ammonium sulfate (21-0-0) — A solid product that is largely a byproduct of coke ovens, where sulfuric acid is used to remove ammonia evolved from the coal.



All forms of N can cause some minor leaf burning and this will be worse if applied when leaves ar wet, so wait till dew has dried before applying.

Typically for brassicas top dressing with 40-60#'s of actual nitogen will be enough to spur lush rapid growth and would be best applied when plants are 3-6 weeks old assuming they are 60-90 day brassicas. Long seasons planted in early spring could use N perhaps even in two applications at 30- and 60 days.

Urea (46-0-0) is the most commonly available but it is inportant to apply it ahead of a minimum of a 1/2" rain

This link will explain more about useing urea

Fertilizer Urea (http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/cropsystems/DC0636.html)

Urea Losses to the Air

Urea breakdown begins as soon as it is applied to the soil. If the soil is totally dry, no reaction happens. But with the enzyme urease, plus any small amount of soil moisture, urea normally hydrolizes and converts to ammonium and carbon dioxide.

This can occur in 2 to 4 days and happens quicker on high pH soils. Unless it rains, urea must be incorporated during this time to avoid ammonia loss. Losses might be quite low in the spring if the soil temperature is cold.



Urea fertilizer can be coated with certain materials, such as sulfur, to reduce the rate at which the nitrogen becomes available to plants. Under certain conditions these slow-release materials result in more efficient use by growing plants. Urea in a slow-release form is popular for use on golf courses, parks, and other special lawn situations.

If you can find urea treated with urease inhibitor then rain fall will ne of less importance and Agrotain makes such a product:

Where Agrotain fits (http://www.agriculture.com/ag/story.jhtml?storyid=/templatedata/ag/story/data/1205266920423.xml)

Agrotain International (http://www.agrotain.com/) is the world’s largest producer of StabilizedNitrogen™ fertilizers.

Agrotain is both a company name and a product name. Agrotain International makes three ag products that protect urea fertilizer from loss.

Agrotain is a liquid urease inhibitor that can be impregnated onto dry urea or tank mixed with liquid fertilizer that contains urea such as urea-ammonium nitrate (UAN). The active ingredient is N-(n-butyl) thiophosphoric triamide (NBPT).

Agrotain Plus is a dry concentrate nitrogen stabilizer. It contains the urease inhibitor NBPT and dicyandiamide, a nitrogen stabilizer. When added to UAN, it minimizes volatilization, denitrification, and leaching of nitrogen for the urea portion of UAN.


Ammonium nitrate (34-0-0)

AN is a much more stable form of nitrogen in regards to volatilization losses, however it is difficult to purchase because of it's use in making bombs and liability issues for fertilizer dealers. If it is available it is an excellent albeit more expensive source of N for top dressing.

Nitrogen Sources (http://lancaster.unl.edu/ag/factsheets/288.htm)

Another popular form of dry nitrogen fertilizer is ammonium-nitrate (NH4-NO3). Ammonium-nitrate is 34% nitrogen, by weight. It is produced by reacting anhydrous ammonia (NH3) with nitric acid (HNO3). When dissolved in water, the ammonium (NH4+) and nitrate (NO3_) fractions disassociate. The nitrate fraction remains dissolved in the soil water. The ammonium fraction becomes bound to negatively charged soil particles. Both the ammonium and nitrate fractions are available for direct plant uptake and neither form is subject to appreciable volatilization losses. The volatilization losses from surface applied ammonium nitrate are therefore usually quite small, especially compared to urea-based fertilizers.


There are safer versions of AN being developed so perhaps it will once again be more readily available.

Honeywell Develops Safer Ammonium Nitrate-Based Fertilizer (http://www.istockanalyst.com/article/viewiStockNews/articleid/2643438)

Ammonium sulfate (21-0-0)

Advantages = Minimal leaching loss, easy to use, safe to handle and sulfur boost if needed.

Disadvantages = Delayed availability during nitrification and has a high loss potential on calcareous soils if it is not incorporated into the soil. Ammonium sulfate is often one of the most expensive forms of N but when compared to the risk of applying urea and ending up with no rain, it's worth the cost!

Some FAQ's about AS

Ammonium Sulfate & Soil pH: Fact Vs. Fiction (http://www.honeywell.com/sites/servlet/com.merx.npoint.servlets.DocumentServlet?docid=DF2 EC0F71-4BAB-A40A-9CE8-8DAD70846CD1)

NITROGEN FERTILIZER: What Should I Use (http://forages.tamu.edu/PDF/scs2002-09.pdf)

Purchasing Nutrients for Hay and Forage Crops (http://ohioline.osu.edu/anr-fact/0007.html)

Compare N sources (http://www.ag.ohio-state.edu/~prec/soil/Nmanage.htm)

Fertilizer and Lime materials (http://extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/fg/fg52-e.pdf)

[dkelley]

My place In Washington County received close to 12 inches of rain this past week. Hopefully it will drain fast or my brassicas are in trouble. It wont be a total loss, but the wettest spot is roughly 40 yards around my tree stand :mad:

http://iowawhitetail.com/gallery/files/9180-img_0245.jpg

[dbltree]

Yikes! That's some serious water! Hope they dry out quickly and do well this fall for you!

They seem to be grazing the forage radish real well! The radish leaves are a litle "feathery" compared to the broader leaves of the rape and turnips but apparantly just as tasty. I have some Ground Hog radishes arriving today from Welter Seed to scatter into my cereal rye planting for both soil improvment and forage.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Grazedradish.jpg

Notice the dark green very thick strip of grass next to the brassicas? I was careful not to spread urea into that area so the roots are just happily sucking it up from next door!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Grassnnitrogen.jpg

For best results in yield and quality of forage, brassicas should be planted in mid July thru early August in most of the midwest. They should also be fertilized heavily and a minimum of 60-90#'s per acre of actual nitrogen should be tilled in at planting time.

Planted properly in this manner brassicas will grow rapidly and quickly canopy (much like soybeans) making it nearly impossible for any other crop to be grown with them.

To plant them together means something is going to suffer and nutrients may go to the wrong plants at the wrong times.

I often plant oats and berseem clover in the spring as a cover crop to till under for the next planting, works great before a fall rye/pea planting or to establish clovers but it can pose a bit of a problem for brassicas.

The following are some pics of a brassica planting I did for a friend where I followed oats and berseem. The oats of course were maturing so tilling them under just spread oat seed everywhere and of course it just loves all the nitrogen tilled in for the brassicas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Waltbrassicas8-20-09.jpg

Now...you might say...heck, that looks great! Deer should love that! Yep...for now, but these oats will be mature by October and useless to attract deer and during that time they will be sucking up nitrogen and other nutrients meant for the brassicas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Oatsnbrassicas.jpg

Not the end of the world of course and in this case grazing pressure will be light and side by side plantings of winter rye and peas along side of a large field of corn will still create an overall very attractive food source.
I could have killed these oats with clethodim if the situation required more/higher yields of brassicas but at this point on this property we're not even sure if they will eat brassicas.

I just wanted to share the problems associated with mixing grains with brassicas and I will continue to share pics this fall to give you an idea why seperate plantings are much more productive.

These oats will not be so tasty in November while the oats and rye we plant right now will be perfect.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Grazingoats.jpg

no room in here for anything but brassicas!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassiccanopy.jpg

Now if deer murder your brassicas early as they are mine, then broadcasting winter rye into them in early September will be fine because the brassicas have already been decimated.

This farm is also one where I wil be able to show you strip plotting and crop rotations and how they will work in anyones habitat program...better then planting single crop plots in different fields or attempting to throw a bunch of incompatiable seeds together all in one plot...;)

[risto2351]

Brassicas planted July 25 and 26 of this year.

Starting to come together.

Plot below my barn:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC08980.jpg

Plot below my house:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC08986.jpg




http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC08992.jpg


Everthing is mowed and everything is planted.
Think I am ready for the season. :)

[bowhuntr311]

Anybody know how long it takes for purple top turnips to actually start producing the meat of the plant. Im at 6weeks and all of my plants look the same and I cant find 1 plant that has any sort of bulb. Or how long it takes for the leaves to start turn colors. Im starting to think my "turnips" maybe rape instead.

[risto2351]

I looked at mine the other day also and my turnips have not started to
form yet either. I do not know the exact date but they should start forming
here in the next couple of weeks.

[bowhuntr311]

Hope so, I had LIGHT frost last two mornings.

[dbltree]

Brassicas planted July 25 and 26 of this year.


They look fantastic!!:way:

They have murdered mine! :( No worries about turnips developing...they even reached inside the exclusion cage and ate those! :thrwrck:

[dbltree]

September 1st and the deer have nearly decimated my brassica plots already, despite being planted side by side along clover, alfalfa, oats and peas! I watched them troop out the other night as I was planting cereal grains, oblivious to me a 100 yards away.

I caught this one greedily munching away as I drove out...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Deerinbrassicas.jpg

The exact same seed mix and fertilizer I put on a friends farm hasn't been touched yet but no such luck for me.

Because they have eaten away the canopy, there is some foxtail coming up so I sprayed that with clethodim and will broadcast some winter rye onto the now, nearly bare ground...:rolleyes:

[nannyslayer]

You need to start feeding those poor things over there!! :grin:

[KSQ2]

Paul, a couple of weeks ago we planted 1/2 an acre of forage rape and turnips. We put down about 170 lbs. of urea after broadcasting the seed. We covered it all with a 5 by 12' chainlink drag with cinder blocks on it. We dragged before and after broadcasting. It looked great by the time we were done. This was the problem, although the soil had some moisture in it, by the time we disked, and dragged two times, the soil was getting pretty dry. We planted on Aug. 22nd and today (Sept. 2) we're getting our first rain. I could see some plants getting a start this past Saturday when I took a look at it. Will the remaining seed come up with the rain, or has it been too long? I guess if they don't come up, we'll have a very nicely prepared spot for a little more winter wheat.:rolleyes:

[dbltree]

Will the remaining seed come up with the rain, or has it been too long?

It should come up as long as none of it got buried to deep or anything. I have seen germination be spotty for several weeks until rain spurred it on. ;)

[SEIowaDeerslayer]

My brassicas have been eaten to the stem as well and the foxtail is overtaking the plot. What a change from last year. Next year its going to be rye and peas only. :drink1:

[dbltree]

My brassicas have been eaten to the stem as well and the foxtail is overtaking the plot. What a change from last year. Next year its going to be rye and peas only. :drink1:

Amazing, once they figure out how tasty they are they can smoke the whole plot in days! :eek:

I couldn't believe it when they even reached inside the exclusion cage and ate those off as well!


http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicaseateninsideexclusioncage.jpg

I have nearly 3 acres total and they are just killing of them!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicastems.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/9-1-09Grazedbrassica.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/9-1-09Brassicas.jpg

While the exact same brassicas I planted on a friends place remain untouched and are growing like crazy!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicas9-02.jpg

Some folks are noticing the "purple" color or stunted brassicas which is almost always nutrient deficiencies which usually is from lack of nitrogen.

Brassicas are like corn and are heavy nitrogen users and require 60-90#'s of actual nitrogen tilled in at planting to keep them growing and flourishing.

Heavy rains have leached some nitrogen beyond root zones so top dressing addtional nitrogen may be necessary.

If using urea be sure to apply it within 24 hours of a minumum 1/2" of rain or risk losing it to denitrification.

If deer devour your brassicas then following them with more brassicas may bring about no harm but if they don't eat them, the rotting leftovers make a breeding place for disease and pests and you are better off rotating to a different crop...;)

[dbltree]

My friend Cory sent me some pics of his Purple Tops and rape...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CorysBrassicas9-1-091.jpg

Beautiful brassicas!! :way:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CorysBrassicas9-01-092.jpg

Looks like his fall cereal grains are coming on great too!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/CorysPlots9-1-09.jpg

Those brassicas are yet another example of why if they are properly planted and fertilized...your not going to get other crops to grow with them once they form a canopy! :way:

[KSQ2]

Paul, what do you think about Evolved Harvest seed? First of all, is five lbs. enough to plant a half acre? I followed their directions to a tee, and almost nothing germinated (1% germination would be generous). I'll be replanting to wheat in a week or two now. From the description I gave you above, do you think I used too much fertilizer and burned the seed? I'm just about ready to pull my hair out! This is the second time I've tried Evolved Harvest, both times the results were pitiful.

[dbltree]

Paul, what do you think about Evolved Harvest seed? First of all, is five lbs. enough to plant a half acre? I followed their directions to a tee, and almost nothing germinated (1% germination would be generous). I'll be replanting to wheat in a week or two now. From the description I gave you above, do you think I used too much fertilizer and burned the seed? I'm just about ready to pull my hair out! This is the second time I've tried Evolved Harvest, both times the results were pitiful.

I don't know anything about that product but I have never had any brassica seed fail to come up and I have fertilized very heavily at times with no side effects.

Sow 5#'s per acre, so your seed was double what you needed.

Cultipack, sow brassica seed and re-cultipack to cover so if you had to drag seed in then it's possible that if got buried? Brassica seed is like clover seed, just barely covered or pressed into the soil.

You can always do a ragdoll test to test germination but if you have done everything else right then it would make me suspicious...;)

[KSQ2]

Perhaps I covered the seed too deep? I dragged the disked seedbed before broadcasting, then I dragged it again. It moved just enough dirt to cover the fertilizer well. I can't imagine much of it being covered more than a quarter of an inch. I don't have access to a cultipacker. They've gotten expensive around here at the auctions and most of what I plant I drill. If I can find one cheap next year, I'll probably jump on it.

[Hat Trick]

The South Pasture plot is not looking good. In fact I am so disappointed in the way this plot turned out that I didn't even snap a single picture.

The Crossing Plot has some grass growing in it, but my dad hit it with select a couple days ago. That ought to do the trick, it is certainly coming on good.

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/1553.jpg

The 14 acres plot is my main plot where we have implemented some manipulation tactics and created an open gate. This plot os looking awesome and has good turnip production already. The deer have yet to touch it yet.

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/1574.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/1575.jpg

http://i709.photobucket.com/albums/ww98/HatTrick7/1577.jpg

[dbltree]

Looking good! What do you suppose went wrong in the one field? Did you do any soil testing before hand?

Remember to check through the edgefeathering thread to learn how to block runways to the fields and create only a few openings. This also creates edge browse at the same time...:)

[Hat Trick]

Looking good! What do you suppose went wrong in the one field? Did you do any soil testing before hand?

Remember to check through the edgefeathering thread to learn how to block runways to the fields and create only a few openings. This also creates edge browse at the same time...:)


Yeah, hopefully my piece on the manipulation tactics I used for the 14 acres plot will be on Midwest Whitetail next Wednesday.

We tested soil all over the farm, but not in this spot this year. We have a rotation to test certain areas every other year. However that wasn't the problem. The problem was I planted them too thick on that plot. They germinated well and were extremely thick. There is a picture back in this thread. Part of the plot it didn't germinate at all and I know it was from the problems with the ATV seeder we had(not doing that again!). Then we started to spread the fertilizer from a pull behind and the belt came off and spread it really thick in a large area and burned the field. Eventhough you helped me and gave me all the info you still have to get through all the "field issues" with the equipment and such. There is some good spots in it, but I am a perfectonist and not happy with it. I'm just glad we did the one that meant the most last (14 acres plot) to get everything sorted out.

I am trying to convince my dad we need a pull behind tiller, he's a tough sell on everything, but he'll come around like he does with everything else:grin:

Also, how much taller can I expect them to get before they reach their peak?

[dbltree]

Also, how much taller can I expect them to get before they reach their peak?

Mine get knee high or better with plenty of nitrogen and no grazing early in the season.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/SuperthickBrassicas.jpg

[Hat Trick]

Okay, that's what I thought. I am a little worried since they are only 8 inches high or so after 6 weeks. Hopefully that is normal. My dad just put 60lbs of fertilizer on them yesterday so hopefully that makes them shoot up. Remember we only put down 40lbs at the time of planting since that's all we could get at the time.

[risto2351]

Found a volunteer turnip the other day in my clover plot.

Hope they all grow this big.

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC09028.jpg

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj268/risto2351/DSC09029.jpg

[dbltree]

Hope they all grow this big.
Dang that's a dandy! :way:


Nannyslayer sent me some pics of some brassicas he seeded into a corn field that had been trashed by about 35 head of cattle that got loose in it
Nothing worse then trying to get cows out of a field of corn and they really make a mess of things as they crash around it knocking whole areas flat.

Some places you can see the flattened corn while othes the corn is standing and others where weed growth has increased no doubt due to sunlight and cattle tearing it up.

At any rate it gives plotters some options as brassicas seed is inexpensive and easy to broadcast into almost any standing crops that are at a point where enough sunlight can penetrate and give them a chance to grow.
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicasincorn2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicasincorn3.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/BrasicasinCorn1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicasincorn4.jpg

These were planted later (then a usual planting)but anything that grows at this point is a plus and the brassicas are not competing with the corn (or soybeans) at this stage of the game.

Where landowners have wildlife damage around the edges of a corn field, short, wide row corn or better yet, early maturing soybeans, then broadcasting brassicas can just add some fall forage for less then $15 an acre...:)

[corygnc]

http://iowawhitetail.com/gallery/files/5780-hpim1570.jpg

Here is some pics of Canola and PT Turnips. Canola is closest to the camera and PT Turnips are in the back. You can see the color difference.

They look good here but haven't had much rain and look a little weak right now. I probably planted them a little too thick.

Soil Preparation and Fertizing was all from recommendations of Dbltree and it was :way:!

Thanks Again!

[risto2351]

Paul,
with a good chance of rain next week.
Should one do a little top dressing with some fertilizer to
possibly help the brassica catch up?

[dbltree]

Paul,
with a good chance of rain next week.
Should one do a little top dressing with some fertilizer to
possibly help the brassica catch up?

If you tilled in plenty of nitrogen at planting, it probably needs rain or perhaps some other missing nutrient?

The forecast I see doesn't look real promising at maybe 40%, we need 80-90% chance of a 1/2" or more before taking a chance on broadcasting urea.

Adding nitrogen can of course be helpful at this stage of the game as it can encourage a flush of new growth but rain is imperative within 24 hours and a couple tenths could actully do more harm then good.

If you give it a shot, leave a strip without any and see how it compares and consider soil testing this next winter to see if anything else is missing?

[dbltree]

I have brassicas planted on several farms in dozens of strips and different plots which is always interesting to see varying results.

The exact same seeds and fertilizers can yield different results if there are huge differences in grazing pressure.

I planted one strip of brassicas in a tree planting that gets heavily traveled but is also along side oat/pea plantings and now rye/oat/pea plantings as well.

I fertilized this strip heavily with 250#'s of 6-28-28, 200#'s of urea and added pell lime to boot and it now looks like this!
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Grazedbrassicasinstrip.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Decimatedbrassicas.jpg
With the reasons fairly obvious

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicaraiders.jpg

meanwhile on another farm where they haven't been touched, same seed same fertilizer...the results are much different!
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/SDC12759.jpg

I could throw all kinds of fertilizer on the first plot but nothing is going to bring them back at this point. Heavy grazing has removed any possiblity of canopy, and canopy is what protects the soil surface from drying out.

The last picture shows how thick and lush they are (ungrazed) and they can survive just fine on limited surface mositure because roots have traveled deep into the subsoil at this point.

The decimated brassicas have shallow root systems simply because they have put all their energy into growing the top or leaf portion and at this point they are all but spent.

With our first decent chance of rain due in Sunday I will broadcast winter rye onto the now bare soil at 150#'s per acre. If we get enough rain to germinate the rye, it will happily soak up the unused nitrogen in the soil and then recycle it next spring rather then "using it up" like wheat or other cereals. ;)

[risto2351]

Paul,
I will hold out then.
I did till in plenty of Urea when I first planted it.

I will see what this next rain will do.
There are a couple of areas that are real sparse.
This particular area it is usually like that year after year.
Soil sample is in order I think.

Will take pictures this weekend.

Tony


If you tilled in plenty of nitrogen at planting, it probably needs rain or perhaps some other missing nutrient?

The forecast I see doesn't look real promising at maybe 40%, we need 80-90% chance of a 1/2" or more before taking a chance on broadcasting urea.

Adding nitrogen can of course be helpful at this stage of the game as it can encourage a flush of new growth but rain is imperative within 24 hours and a couple tenths could actully do more harm then good.

If you give it a shot, leave a strip without any and see how it compares and consider soil testing this next winter to see if anything else is missing?

[dbltree]

Sometimes it takes me a bit to put two and two together but two days after clipping my clover and alfalfa strips adjacent to my brassicas, they immediately started mowing my brassicas.

Just didn't really hit me that one had anything to do with the other but now that my alfalfa and clover has recovered and regrown, they are hammering them and allowing the brassicas to re-grow a bit.

You can see the Alice white clover is being hit pretty hard in this pic

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Clover/Heavygrazingofalice.jpg

Along the edges the brassicas still look pretty sad

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicassuffering-1.jpg

but the interior of the plots are recovering nicely

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicasrecovering.jpg

We need rain in the worst way but still they are doing better then I expected after intially being grazed nearly to the ground

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicaslesgrazed9-17.jpg

It appears that all of the varieties are recovering more or less equally.

The weather forecast was calling for good odds of rain Sunday (on Saturday) so I overseeded winter rye into the worst (most heavily grazed) brassicas and made a pass with some fertilizer across some just for a comparison check.

I returned home to see that within hours the forecast had changed and rain was perhaps several days off. You see why attempting to top dress fertilizer can be a crap shoot? Even with more stable forms of N, without rain it just doesn't reach the root zone while tilled in nitrogen is where it needs to be with or without rain.

This is a great time of year to pick up some dirt cheap fertilizer at places like Wally Mart as they try to clear the shelves for the season. I always nab a few bags of high N lawn fertilizer with OUT weed killer! It's usually at least partially treated with urease inhibitors so if one doesn't get rain it's not a total losss.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Cheapfertilizer.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Topdressingbrassicas.jpg

Some is going to end up in the leaf furls and may cause some minor burning but generally no serious harm

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Fertilizerinfurls.jpg

Where it was most heavily grazed I over seeded winter rye

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Heavygrazing.jpg

You can see how dry and cracked the soil is so nothing is going germinate until we get rain

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Dryground.jpg

We'll check back on this if and when it ever does rain and see if the rye finally does germinate.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Overseedingrye.jpg

[dbltree]

I shared earlier pictures of brassicas that I planted after tilling down a stand of oats and berseem clover. The oats of course sprouted and grew with the brassicas, something that tends to become a problem as the brassicas and oats begin to compete.

I don't advocate mixing other crops with brassicas for this reason, they just don't coexist well, because one or the other will suffer.
These are brassicas that got ahead of the oats, in which case they have all but snuffed out the oats...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Kneehighbrassicas.jpg

There they are thick and lush and growing well

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/SDC12759.jpg

but the oats also love all the nitrogen we tilled in and in some places they got the upperhand and had the reverse affect by suffucating the brassicas

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Oatsoverbrassicas.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicaandoats.jpg

If mature oats were really attractive and of high forage value, we would all be planting them on purpose...however they are not of course. The brassicas do provide a high quality food source well into early winter and the the turnip roots can feed deer when all else is gone after the new year.

I share these thoughts to illustrate the disadvantages of mixing other crops with brassicas versus planting them alone. Any other plants are going to compete for the very expensive fertilizer we apply but yet in the late season will have the least to offer our deer herd.

I find it is much more productive to plant side by side strips or sections of seperate crops of clover, brassicas and a winter rye and pea combination (or corn, beans and alfalfa for instance)

Each crop will thrive and your deer will have the very best of all types of top quality forage literally year around......:way:

***NOTE*** we have some heavy rain forecast over the next few days so now is the time to get some urea put on if you feel you need it!

[Alpha Doe]

I just wanted to share a couple of pictures of some Tyfon brassicas that we broadcasted in a standing corn field just ahead of a rain. This was just a trial attempt, so we didn't cover alot of area. Next year we'll try it on a larger scale. In the 3rd picture you can see the difference in growth of the brassicas that are actually in the corn compared to the brassicas in the plot that is in front of the corn (Winter Greens, I think). The corn brassicas were planted about 2-3 weeks later than the others. In a couple of the pictures you can see the brassicas around the corn field have been found the brassicas in the corn haven't been touched. Maybe it's because they are straight Tyfon and the others are mixtures.:confused:

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu51/Imatreehugger/Farmpictures9-21-09272.jpg

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu51/Imatreehugger/Farmpictures9-21-09271.jpg

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu51/Imatreehugger/Farmpictures9-21-09274.jpg


Some have been found... http://www.outreachoutdoors.com/phpBB3/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif :thrwrck:

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu51/Imatreehugger/Farmpictures9-21-09267.jpg


And (shhhh!) some are still hiding... http://www.outreachoutdoors.com/phpBB3/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif :way:

http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu51/Imatreehugger/Farmpictures9-21-09279.jpg
<DL class=postprofile id=profile14016><DT> </DT></DL>

[dbltree]

That's some good stuff right there!! Thanks for posting! :way:

[dbltree]

How and why does frost sweeten brassicas?

Frost sweetens all brassicas including those used for human consumption such as collard greens

in response to frost, these crops (and many other frost-tolerant crops) move water from the leaves to the roots. This increases the sugar concentration in the leaves which lowers the freezing point of the plant tissue. A side effect of this process is a sweeter flavor.

On one farm deer had not touched the brassicas until recently but strips of rye and peas planted next to the brassicas encouraged deer to feed there and now (with no frost) have begun foraging on the brassicas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brasicasusuage9-28.jpg

While rape varieties tend to be the first ones hit, I have found that they soon graze evenly on both rape and turnip tops and the turnip roots will provide a food source late in the winter after other crops are gone.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Turnips9-28.jpg

Even on farms where deer did not touch brassica tops the entire season, they always dig them up late in the winter when other food sources are scarce.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/SDC12952.jpg

This is a Groundhog forage radish planted with my winter rye/pea/red clover planting. I mix them with my normal brassica planting (radish is a brassica) and find they graze them equally well but in the rye planting they prefer the succulant winter rye and peas allowing the radish to grow.

They will eat the tops later in the winter and the roots will help eliminate soil compaction problems and like rye, recycle nitrogen and pull up subsoil nutrients all while feeding your deer.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/GHRadishgrowth.jpg

Remember if you have thin or heavily grazed brassicas that winter rye can easily be overseeded in to the brassica stand at up to 150#'s per acre.

This is winter rye I broadcast about 10 days ago just before we got 2" of rain...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Cereal%20Grains/Ryeinbrassicas.jpg

[Hat Trick]

My dad and I ate a leaf two weeks ago and it tasted pretty good. I can only imagine what it must taste like to a deer after a frost.

[dbltree]

How deep do brassica roots go?

It depends on which brassica but forage radish tap roots can easily reach 6 feet or more.

Brassicas can root to depths of six feet or more, scavenging nutrients from below the rooting depth of most crops.

Brassicas have been studied at length for use as cover crops, suppressing weeds and recycling nitrogen as this link shows.

BRASSICAS AND MUSTARDS for cover crops (http://www.sare.org/publications/covercrops/brassicas_mustards.shtml)


Brassicas are generally not considered winter hardy with the exception of winter canola (canola is just rapeseed brassica bred for oil seed production)

Winter canola is planted 4-6 weeks before frosts and generally relies on snow cover to protect the small plants thru the winter months. Using seed mixes with this type of brassica can result in plants surviving the winter and if allowed to go to seed (and they will if they are alive in the spring) will come back to haunt plotters.

Using RR canola also presents the possibility for problems down the road as it may be difficult to get rid of without the use of other herbicides.

My brassicas are stunted, yellowed, purplish and not growing

Brassicas are some what like corn in that they love nitrogen, plenty of soil moisture and good rich soils. They aren't fond of sandy soils but if they have all the needed nutrients along with plenty of rain they can do just fine.

They need 60-90#'s of nitrogen tilled in at planting and another 70#'s per acre half way thru their growing cycle if they are subjected to heavy grazing.

Nitrogen is of course one of the elements required and low levels of phosphorus and potassium are also going to cause problems.

Stunted and discolored brassicas are stressed, sometimes from lack of rain, too much rain, intense grazing and lack of needed nutrients including sulfur and boron.

Soil testing is the only way to avoid nutrient deficiency stress and give the plants a better chance at surviving the factors you can't control.

These are some of my brassicas that have recovered from some intense grazing pressure because they have everything they need.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Thickbrassicas.jpg

These however are some that did not and this soil is obviously lacking to the point of being severe!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicassuffering-2.jpg

Same seed, planted the same day with plenty of nitrogen but clearly they are missing something that only a soil test will provide the answers too.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Poorbrassicas.jpg

I tilled these under for winter rye and when I get the soil test back I'll share the results but every plot is different and soils can vary widely even on the same farm.

Correct PH problems and build up P&K levels after soil testing and then soil nutrients can be easily maintained using crop rotations of legumes and crops like winter rye and forage radish to pull up sub soil nutrients....... ;)

[whitetail fanatic]

dbltree, do you know what causes dwarf essex rape to have reddish purple leaves and be stunted in some areas of a food plot right next to areas where the rape is much taller and the leaves are dark green? It seems to occur more in areas with more reddish clay (I think what you refer to as "ole clay knobs") and not so much in areas with better darker soils without red clay. I'm not sure if it's just the soil type, not good drainage, too low pH, not enough nitrogen, or some other reason. Thanks

[bowhuntr311]

Had to share what a few hard frosts can change on a persons brassicas. These pics are 10days apart I believe.

Most of these plants are DER and Rutebeggies (I think).

Before a few frosts
http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=94&pictureid=2137

After a few.
http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=94&pictureid=2136

Before
http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=94&pictureid=2135

After
http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=94&pictureid=2134

Both sets of pictures are relatively close to being the same plants. Camera might just been a different hieght and angle.

[dbltree]

a few hard frosts


Great pics 311! Looks like they prefer the "sweetend by frosts" brassicas!:way:


dbltree, do you know what causes dwarf essex rape to have reddish purple leaves and be stunted in some areas of a food plot right next to areas where the rape is much taller and the leaves are dark green? It seems to occur more in areas with more reddish clay (I think what you refer to as "ole clay knobs") and not so much in areas with better darker soils without red clay. I'm not sure if it's just the soil type, not good drainage, too low pH, not enough nitrogen, or some other reason. Thanks

It's stress...the question is it stress from grazing, stress from not enough soil moisture, soil compaction or lack of nutrients.

That's too many variables for us to guess so the first step is to take some soil samples from the stressed spots, mix them up and send them in to see what if any problems are going on there.

You can loosen and improve those "ole clay knobs" by rotating to winter rye/peas/forage radish and red clover every other year and adding any lime or fertilizer the soil is missing.

We can't control how much rainfall we get or over grazing but if you improve the soils then they can take a lot more stress with out whithering on you.

Start with a soil test and let us know what that reveals...;)

[dbltree]

My brassicas that were grazed down to a height of 2-4" never recovered but those that were grazed to 6-8" high and then given a rest did recover pretty well!

This is 10-12-09 several days after temps down to 29 degrees

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/10-12-09Brassicas.jpg

They turned back to clover and alfalfa and that allowed the brassicas some time to recover and hopefully provide a draw at least into late November.

They are pounding both my Alice white clover

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Clover/SDC13235.jpg

and Falcata alfalfa as 10-13 even after hard freezes

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Alfalfa/Falcataalfalfa10-13.jpg

This is a rye plot with Groundhog Forage Radishes that was planted early September and recieved no rain for three weeks. Germination was spotty but those that did grew well until recently deer began hammering them!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/GroundhogFR10-13.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/GHForageradish10-13.jpg

They have fed on the early planted radishes but what i find interesting is that on this farm deer have never ever touched a brassica leaf of any kind yet they are now eating these forage radishes to the dirt!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Grazedforageradish.jpg

I was also surprised to see the root development on such late planted radishes, but they have done well!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/GHFR10-13.jpg

The radish root is what breaks up hardpan soils and recycles nitrogen much like winter rye so it makes an awesome plant to both feed deer and improve soils.

I mixed them at 5#'s per acre with my July brassica plantings and my September winter rye plantings...great stuff for $2.65 a pound from Welter Seed! :way:

[dbltree]

Grazing is starting to pick back up again on my brassicas...this as of 10-17

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicagrazing10-17.jpg

Still plenty of forage but while growth is still possible, the cooler temps will slow growth making it nearly impossible for them to keep up with grazing.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/10-17brassicausuage.jpg

I was surprised to see some actually were able to make turnips this year!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Turnips10-17.jpg

Usually grazing is too intense to allow for much root growth at my place but the adjacent clover, alfalfa, rye and peas helped take a little pressure off and 200#'s of urea really boosted growth!

The rye I overseeded into the heavily grazed areas is doing well and will continue on long after the brassicas are history...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Ryeinturnips.jpg

We just had 4 days of beautiful fall weather here in Iowa with temps around 70 and plenty of soil moisture so hopefully they held their own for a few days at least...;)

[SEIowaDeerslayer]

Grazing is starting to pick back up again on my brassicas...this as of 10-17

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicagrazing10-17.jpg

Still plenty of forage but while growth is still possible, the cooler temps will slow growth making it nearly impossible for them to keep up with grazing.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/10-17brassicausuage.jpg

I was surprised to see some actually were able to make turnips this year!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Turnips10-17.jpg

Usually grazing is too intense to allow for much root growth at my place but the adjacent clover, alfalfa, rye and peas helped take a little pressure off and 200#'s of urea really boosted growth!

The rye I overseeded into the heavily grazed areas is doing well and will continue on long after the brassicas are history...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Ryeinturnips.jpg

We just had 4 days of beautiful fall weather here in Iowa with temps around 70 and plenty of soil moisture so hopefully they held their own for a few days at least...;)

Looks like my brassica plot. My turnips that have survived the onslaught only were allowed to grow to about the size of a beer bottle cap. What a difference a year can make, last year they weren't even touched and I had some massive turnips!

[dbltree]

10-27-09 update on my brassicas...

Holding thier own but deer are starting to put the pressure on them now...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/10-27Grazedbrassicas.jpg

By no means gone yet but I suspect they will not last until December

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicashithard.jpg

The plants are still trying to re-grow when we have warm spells but growth is slower then grazing at this point...notice the winter rye around this plant.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Brassicagrazing10-27.jpg

Because I over seeded winter rye into any heavily, grazed brassicas the whole plot will not be for naught during the late seasons.

The rye is really taking off good now!:way:

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Ryeinbrassicas.jpg

Any soil has limitations and yields can be further limited by too little or too much rainfall but weather notwithstanding, forage yields can be dramatically affected by increasing soil nutrient levels.

Brassicas, like corn will produce far more if maximum NPK levels are applied. While 60-80#'s of actual N are the norm, pushing that towards a 100#'s of N will also further boost yields.

Soil tests will indicate how much P&K will be needed but it is rare to need less then 50#'s each just to sustain yields. PH will also affect brassica forage production and should not be ignored.

If deer aren't touching your brassicas then apply the minimum but if deer are foraging heavily on your brassicas then feed the brassicas accordingly.....;)

[dbltree]

Forage radishes are brassicas of course so it makes it a little confusing to say.."I planted forage radish with my brassicas"...better to say I planted radishes with my rape and turnips!

At any rate, the rut is heating up here in Iowa and I try to stay out of the plots this time of year. The July planted radishes got grazed right from the get go right along with the other brassicas which didn't suprise me because they ate them last year.

What has surprised me is that deer on my other farm that heretofor have never touched a leaf on any brassicas, are now mowing these Groundhog Forage radishes!

What does that say??

Are forage radishes more palatable and attractive then rape??

Is it just a fluke???

With standing corn, soybeans, alfalfa, clover, rye and peas literally feet away...I think not...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Forageradish10-26-09.jpg

Deer tracks cover these late planted winter rye, pea and forage radish plots!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/FRuse.jpg

Obviously eating the rye and peas as well but absoutely no need to eat the radishes if they didn't care for them

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/FRinWR.jpg

These were all planted at 5#'s per acre with my winter rye/oats/forage pea/red clover mix roughly Sept 2nd so growth is not what it would be if planted in July.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/FRGrowth10-26.jpg

Welter Seed carries the Groundhog radish for $2.65 a pound but you have to ask for them as they are not listed yet.

Welter Seed - brassica seed (http://welterseed.com/productItems.aspx?id=3&org=0)

Groundhog Foarge radishes are an improved tillage radish by AMPAC seed company and they have a dealer locater list that might help you locate a closer seed source then Welters.

Groundhog Forage Radish - AMPAC SEED (http://www.ampacseed.com/groundhog.htm)

AMPAC carries many other great clover and brassica seeds that are sold thru distributers like Welters alover the country so check their site out for other food plot seeds at a reasonable price.

Remember if you decide to plant forage radish on their own, plant at 10#'s per acre, use 60-90#'s of actual nitrogen and sow in mid to late July in most midwest states... ;)

[dbltree]

I planted the same Ground Hog Forage Radish on a friends farm, same time, with the same winter rye/oats/peas/clover mixture but there I was surprised to find the deer are eating the radish itself?

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Eatingradishes.jpg

Tops like that are scattered everywhere and the roots have been eaten or gone altogether

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/Forageradish11-09.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/MunchedRadish.jpg

Good stuff! All of the soil improving attributes and attractive to deer to boot!

[waylonb19]

I planted an acre of purple top turnips, dwarf essex rape, and bonar rape. The deer have not touched any of it really. I have heard some guys say they sometimes won't eat it because they aren't sure what it is. This field is surrounded by a huge soybean field which they cut a few weeks ago. I thought maybe they would start on the plot here soon but it doesn't look like it. Is there any chance they just might not eat it at all this yr? If they don't touch it this yr I assume they will never eat it so why bother planting this again next yr? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks

[SEIowaDeerslayer]

I planted an acre of purple top turnips, dwarf essex rape, and bonar rape. The deer have not touched any of it really. I have heard some guys say they sometimes won't eat it because they aren't sure what it is. This field is surrounded by a huge soybean field which they cut a few weeks ago. I thought maybe they would start on the plot here soon but it doesn't look like it. Is there any chance they just might not eat it at all this yr? If they don't touch it this yr I assume they will never eat it so why bother planting this again next yr? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks


They didn't touch mine last year, and that was the first year I planted them. This year my plot got decimated and I had to overseed with rye.

[dbltree]

They didn't touch mine last year, and that was the first year I planted them. This year my plot got decimated and I had to overseed with rye.

One farm they have not touched for 2 years but this year they are hammering the forage radishes. I would suggest giving those a try and mix in a few turnips until they start eating them.

Usually when the weather gets severe they will dig up the turnips so I wouldn't give up on them just yet.

What else did you plant besides brassicas?

[NWBuck]

This year was our first experiment with brassicas, and my son and I planted purple top turnips with Dwarf Essox Rape. The small plot has been getting pounded almost since it first came up. We took a few pictures from the blind last night.

http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss121/NWBuck/P1030363.jpg

This little guy wanted to ride home in the truck with us, but we weren't quite that hungry :grin:

http://i568.photobucket.com/albums/ss121/NWBuck/P1030364.jpg

Although most of the deer that came out last night spent some time in the turnips, they were all making their way to the corn. I dug up a couple of turnips last night, and despite having planted them a bit too late, they're about the size of a golf ball, so hopefully this will be a draw for them when the weather gets tough.

NWBuck

[dbltree]

Great looking brassicas!! Thanks for sharing the pics!!:way:

[dbltree]

What is the difference between the "Groundhog" variety and the regular "oilseed radish"?

Groundhog radishes are an improved tillage variety...developed by Ampac Seed with more info at this link:

GroundHog Radish (http://www.ampacseed.com/groundhog.htm)

GH is a tillage radish...and this pic shows the difference

http://www.ampacseed.com/images/groundhog/differenceintheroots550x413.jpg

This pic shows the difference in GH versus Daikon radishes

http://www.ampacseed.com/images/groundhog/Daikon-vs-GroundHog550x712.jpg

Some folks wonder how deep the GH radish grows?? Note that the tap root can go several feet deeper then the radish itself.

http://www.ampacseed.com/images/groundhog/ghoginhole550x733.jpg

This is one month after planting

http://www.ampacseed.com/images/groundhog/ghog1monthold550x413.jpg

Hard to beat for $2.65 a pound from Welter Seed!!

[dbltree]

This time of year we can evaluate the plots we have planted and determine problems that need to be corrected before the next season but often landowners new to plotting don't really know for sure if they even have a problem.

This picture is of well fertilized healthy brassicas that have not been grazed to use as some base for "normal" healthy non-stressed brassicas...note the healthy green color.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas9-15.jpg

Certainly we hope however that they have indeed been grazed but yet able to sustain some growth as in the case with these brassicas in the next picture.

Heavily grazed but heavily fertilized to promote yields in keeping with grazing pressure so that they do not become unduly stressed.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/11-09-09Brassicas.jpg

If nutrient levels are high then even grazed plants should have a healthy green color

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/11-09-09Brassicagrazing.jpg

These brassicas have had minimal grazing and were also heavily fertilized so why don't they look like brassicas in the first picture?

Partially because the oats that sprouted "soaked" up a great deal of the nitrogen that was applied and shaded and competed with brassicas, that being the reason I don't advocate mxing cereals or other crops with brassicas.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Brassicas/11-09Brassicaswithoats.jpg

Brassica plants can be stressed from waterlogged soils and drought as they are not fond of either one. Brassicas also crave nitrogen and heavy rains can leach nitrogen beyond root zones, assuming enough was used in the first place.

Always apply 60-90#'s of actual nitrogen at planting when planting brassicas to insure healthy robust growth.

Soil tests will confirm only PH., and P&K levels along with certain micro nutrients if requested but those elements can also be crucial and cannot be ignored...;)

[nannyslayer]

We having a big turnip contest again this year? I've got some that are as big as my hat.

[Daver]

We having a big turnip contest again this year? I've got some that are as big as my hat.

Maybe so, but I have heard that you have a small head! Let's post
some pictures! :) :)


I really meant that as a joke, so please don't take any offense.

[dbltree]

Maybe so, but I have heard that you have a small head! Let's post
some pictures! :) :)


I really meant that as a joke, so please don't take any offense.

LOL! By all means! Post em up!:way:

[nannyslayer]

Maybe so, but I have heard that you have a small head! Let's post
some pictures! :) :)




I may have a small head, but I'm talkin about my Mexican sumbrero hat. Yea, their that big. :grin:

[whitetail fanatic]

dbltree, in an earlier post you stated "You can loosen and improve those "ole clay knobs" by rotating to winter rye/peas/forage radish and red clover every other year and adding any lime or fertilizer the soil is missing." What variety of red clover do you recommend and do you recommend plating it in spring or early August? Does the red clover attract deer in the fall as good as alfalfa? How long does the red clover last, one or two years? Soybeans are supposed to break up the hard soils too, are the groundhog radishes even better for this than soybeans?

thanks

[dbltree]

dbltree, in an earlier post you stated "You can loosen and improve those "ole clay knobs" by rotating to winter rye/peas/forage radish and red clover every other year and adding any lime or fertilizer the soil is missing." What variety of red clover do you recommend and do you recommend plating it in spring or early August? Does the red clover attract deer in the fall as good as alfalfa? How long does the red clover last, one or two years? Soybeans are supposed to break up the hard soils too, are the groundhog radishes even better for this than soybeans?

thanks

I use Alta-Swede Mammoth Red Clover because it is inexpensive and deer hammer the stuff! It's a one cut red clover so it doesn't need a lot of clipping all summer and will last 2-3 years although I plant it to plow down so 1-2 years is about all I let it stand for.

Check this link for more info on the clover itself:

Alta-Swede Mammoth Red Clover (http://www.welterseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=39)

I always include it with my fall planting of winter rye, peas and forage radish, then clip the rye off in late spring. The red clover will go like gangbusters first thing in the spring, right when deer need it most.

The red clover provides a source of high quality protein all summer until I plow it down for my next crop...usually brassicas. The clover will have had roughly 6 months grwing time having been planted in the fall and there for will have fixed 100-150#'s of nitrogen.

Tilling the clover under mill cause it to start decomposing and releasing that nitrogen slowly to the new brassica crop. It's usually not enough to supply ALL the next crops needs but a good share of it.

I find that deer will eat both red clover and alfalfa equally at my place.

Soybeans don't even come plose to a forage radish in breaking up hardpan in fact I wouldn't even consire soys for that purpose. Forage or tillage radishes can send roots down 3-5 feet (tap root) and when the root does, it leaves a tapered hole deep into the subsoil that allows water to penetrate and when it does it also freezes and thaws further breaking up the compacted soils.

The forage radish is like winter rye and will recycle nitrogen and release it as it decomposes the following spring.

It does reqiuire ample nitrogen (as do all brassicas) to send it's roots down thru the hardpan but it will release that N for the next crop.

I have much more detailed pictures and links on this subject in the cereal grain thread that will explain all the attributes of forage radish and why I combine them with winter rye/peas and red clover for an awesome soil building, deer attracting fod plot! :way:

[Nontypcl1]

Dbltree, What do you typically plant after a brassica crop? I know you have mentioned the allelopathic response of brassicas in that they can inhibit seed germination and growth. Was just wondering if I could go back in and plant something this spring or should I wait and plant it into a fall plot of rye and clover.

This was my first year growing brassicas and they did great until the deer decided they were ready to mow em down in late sept. Once the rye grain and clover was really kickn they gave em a break and let them rebound a little. Now they're back to hammering them again:) Hopefully they'll leave a few turnips in the ground for late season. This is also the 1st year they haven't stripped the sorghum bare. Looks like they might be leaving it until a good snow or two