Spotlighting

[risto2351]

Okay guys please keep it civil.

I am willing to listen and change my stance toward this but as of now I will be calling my representative on HF191 against it.

We have talked about this before and I know the stance of most but why should I have to give up my freedom to do this with my family on my own land if the fines are what they are for poaching and with limited staffing even if it is passed they will not be able to enforce it.

Now remember please be civil.

[GregBickal]

Can you please post a link to it or paste in the text.

Thanks.

[risto2351]

Greg,
I think this will get you there.
Just type in deer when you get there.


http://www.legis.state.ia.us/aspx/Cool-ICE/BySubject.htm

[buck1979]

You mean spotlighting for spotting game a dark, not hunting?

[nannyslayer]

Yep, can't have a firearm of any kind with you.

[buck1979]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nannyslayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yep, can't have a firearm of any kind with you. </div></div>

But you guys can drive around and spotlight them in the fields at night like when scouting?

[GregBickal]

http://coolice.legis.state.ia.us/Cool-IC...=82&hbill=HF191 (http://coolice.legis.state.ia.us/Cool-ICE/default.asp?Category=BillInfo&Service=Billbook&ga=82&hbill=HF191)

[risto2351]

Sask,
They are trying to pass a bill to make it illegal to spotlight them at all whether there is a gun in the vehicle or not.

I personally spotlight with my boys and have done that for the last 15 years. I like to see what I have on the land and to be honest I have not spotlighted as much since I have the cams out but still do it. This will just take another thing away because the poachers will still do it.

Do you spot light up there?

[JNRBRONC]

House File 191 - Introduced



HOUSE FILE
BY PETTENGILL


Passed House, Date Passed Senate, Date
Vote: Ayes Nays Vote: Ayes Nays
Approved

A BILL FOR

1 An Act prohibiting the use of artificial light on wildlife for
2 hunting or recreational purposes.
3 BE IT ENACTED BY THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF THE STATE OF IOWA:
4 TLSB 1154HH 82
5 av/je/5



1 1 Section 1. Section 481A.93, Code 2007, is amended to read
1 2 as follows:
1 3 481A.93 HUNTING BY USE OF ARTIFICIAL LIGHT.
1 4 1. A person shall not throw or cast the rays of a
1 5 spotlight, headlight, or other artificial light on a highway,
1 6 or in a field, woodland, or forest for the purpose of
1 7 spotting, locating, or taking or attempting to take or hunt a
1 8 bird or animal, except raccoons or other fur=bearing animals
1 9 when treed with the aid of dogs, while having in possession or
1 10 control, either singly or as one of a group of persons, any
1 11 firearm, bow, or other implement or device whereby a bird or
1 12 animal could be killed or taken.
1 13 2. This section does not apply to deer being taken by or
1 14 under the control of a local governmental body within its
1 15 corporate limits pursuant to an approved special deer
1 16 population control plan.
1 17 EXPLANATION
1 18 This bill prohibits the use of spotlights, headlights, or
1 19 other artificial light to spot, locate, take or attempt to
1 20 take, or hunt a bird or animal, except raccoons or other
1 21 fur=bearing animals when treed with the aid of dogs.
1 22 Currently the use of artificial light in such a manner is
1 23 prohibited only when the light is used by a person or group of
1 24 persons that is also in possession of a weapon or device to
1 25 kill or take the bird or animal.
1 26 LSB 1154HH 82
1 27 av:nh/je/5.1

[GregBickal]

using a flashlight to find my my way to and from the hunting spot should be ok tho correct?

[Fishbonker]

A Little minutia, how about using a trail camera with a flash that "casts light" albeit very very temporarily, on animals? We are, after all "hunting" them, even if it is just on film or disc.

Sorry Risto, I think this is one of those "For the greater good" issues.

The 'Bonker

[risto2351]

Bonk,
I actually see both sides and would be willing to give it up for the good of the sport (poachers and helping the CO investigate calls)if the fine was stiff enough for the poachers to make a difference. Would be interesting to see though if they would have to catch them in the act or just by a spotlight being in a vehicle. To be honest it would be like finding a needle in a haystack.

[bjkpharmd]

I really don't care for it. No one needs to be shining posted private fields that they can't hunt but it happens all the time.

[Doubleaarc hery]

I, like Risto, am on the fence on this. I rarely spotlight, but can see the fun in doing it! But here is my only side to the issue. What is making spotlighting illegal really going to do?

With "jokes" for fines for trespassing and Poaching, what is this solving?

IMO, the added 10 dollar(sarcastic) fine for breaking this law is not going to do anything to stop a poacher who could care less about the 2000(guesstimate) dollar fine for poaching a deer!

Not sure if that came out right, but it makes sense to me!

[SaskGuy]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Do you spot light up there? </div></div>
? was for Dean but I'll ramble. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Pretty sure it's not legal. Say pretty sure b/c I don't exactly know. What I do know, is that if I did, legal or not, I'd be stereotyped a poacher and even worse,...I'd have some landowner buddies big farmer hands clenched around my shirt collar. People will have strong opinions either way. I respect everyone's opinion but will give mine. We worry about ground scent, stressing deer in winter etc...yet some put the high beam on a buck or a field with regularity..there's nothing natural about it. Once again my opinion, feel free to disagree.

[muddy]

Spotlighting is one of my most valuable scouting tools. If it gets canned then I am going to be very disappointed.

[GregBickal]

Good thing Moonlight isn't artificial /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Is thermal imaging considered light /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I also remember a few gadgets that we had back in my military days...

[TimberPig]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GregBickal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good thing Moonlight isn't artificial /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Is thermal imaging considered light /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I also remember a few gadgets that we had back in my military days...</div></div>

No. Thermal imagers "see" heat, they do not emit light or anything else. They are strictly a passive device. And extremely expensive.

[turtlshell]

So when driving at night, and I hit a deer...am I to expect a possible citation for "shining artifical light on a highway at game" on the deer in question to the accident?

I'm also on the fence, especially due to the fact of knowing that this rule will do next to nothing as far as stopping or preventing poaching. Hard to enforce this law with such limited resources available.

[Fishbonker]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Timberpig</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: GregBickal</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Good thing Moonlight isn't artificial /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Is thermal imaging considered light /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif I also remember a few gadgets that we had back in my military days...</div></div>

No. Thermal imagers "see" heat, they do not emit light or anything else. They are strictly a passive device. And extremely expensive.</div></div>

Are you guys talking night vision or thermal imaging? I thought they were differnt. I think that if you were using NV equipment and had an IR illuminator on it that would be considered a "light". I asked a CO a few years ago about NV rifle scopes with IR illuminators and he said deffinately a no-no.

The 'Bonker

[TimberPig]

You are correct about night vision, NV and thermal imagers are two completely different things.

[Fishbonker]

So there are thermal imagers now that are good enough to see fine detail? Last I knew they only showed "hot spots", but then I still use an 8 track. But only because my turn table needs a new needle.

Still listening to music the way it was suppoed to be, all scatchy and poppy. How many of you spent hours trying to get the counter weight just right on the tone arm? Lord I'm old.

The 'Bonker

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Lord I'm old.
</div></div>

Now there's something we can al agree on!! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

Awww...who am I kiddin...I'm right behind ya Bonks... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

Don't care for shinin'..ya'll know that but getting a law passed to change it seems unlikely based on what I've heard in the past.

[Full Quiver]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fishbonker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So there are thermal imagers now that are good enough to see fine detail? Last I knew they only showed "hot spots", but then I still use an 8 track. But only because my turn table needs a new needle.

Still listening to music the way it was suppoed to be, all scatchy and poppy. How many of you spent hours trying to get the counter weight just right on the tone arm? Lord I'm old.

The 'Bonker </div></div>

Don't get rid of all that vinyl, Bonker, it's making a comeback. Still wish I had all my old albums. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[JNRBRONC]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fishbonker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How many of you spent hours trying to get the counter weight just right on the tone arm? Lord I'm old.</div></div>

Ever put a penny on the back of the stylus? I need to replace the stylus on the turntable as well.

In regards to spotlighting, everybody knows the poacher twist, but try this scenario:

You've worked hard and saved your money to buy a piece of ground. You spend countless hours (and $$$) doing timber stand improvement, planting food plots and shooting does to manage the local deer herd. Low and behold, come late in the year as the bucks are starting to shed, a "hard core" trophy hunter happens to spotlight a very nice buck on your property. He can't gain access from you, but he finds a neighbor who will let him in. He sets up and successfully harvests the fruits of your labor, just by being willing to sit on his backside in a vehicle waving a spotlight out the window. He could care less about your hard work and deer herd issues, 'cause he just got all he wanted……



He'll find another target buck next year, maybe a county or two in the other direction, but how long will it take for you to get another decent buck on your property?



But hey, it wasn't your deer anyway, since the deer are a public resource.

[Ghost]

Oh crap...I'm going to come right out and say it!

Shoot me in the morning if you must.

Scouting with a spot light is lazy...

I hate them, I hate what they are used for, and I don't want one shining all over any fields in my county.

With the technolgy of todays trail cams, you can find out all you need to know with a digital picture.

I have spot lighted before and it just makes me feel dirty doing it ...

Everyone grows up differently though, it's just not for me, and I don't care for it, or see a need for it.

This has been hashed out many times before.

Feel free to add your comments, my mind has been made up a long time ago on this issue.

And yes, I do feel it would make our Iowa DNR officers time a little more productive.

Think of how pissed you would be if you got called out of bed in the middle of the night to investigate a harmless scouting mission by some guys that were just "looking for MR. BIG"...

Obviously, I'm not on the fence...I fell off the other side a long, long, time ago...

How do some guys kill B&C bucks every single year the first week October? With a bow?

Man, must be some kinda awesome deer hunters.

I've said TOO MUCH...good night!

[TimberPig]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fishbonker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So there are thermal imagers now that are good enough to see fine detail? Last I knew they only showed "hot spots", but then I still use an 8 track.
The 'Bonker</div></div>

They are pretty decent actually, they basicly look like black and white TV. Most everything has a different heat signature and therefore shows up as a dicernable detail, at least at reasonable range (units I've seen have no zoom). I'm sure you have seen emails with B+W footage of military bombings from Iraq, thats thermal imaging.
They have their drawbacks though, including price. At a starting price of $15,000 or so I doubt you'll see too many poachers using one. I would imagine a thermal rifle scope would be considerably higher yet if you could even find one. Plus, while you could certainly see a deer at 150 yds with one, you'd have a hard time telling a buck from a doe since antlers dont give off heat once they lose velvet. Not that I've tried it... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif Sorry to get off topic.

Personally, I hope this bill passes.

[dbltree]

Like Ghost I'm pretty passionate in my feelings about shining and why it shouldn't be legal here in Iowa.

I've also learned to be realistic when dealing with issues and bills that end up in the House, so now I'm less prone to argue over something that's most likely going no where.

Here's last years discussion on shining (http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=180691&fpart=1) when House File 191 showed up.

From last winter when i met with Rep. Whitaker:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Yesterday I had occasion to sit in on debate in the Iowa Senate which I found very interesting.

Later we met with our Rep. John Whitaker, who not only is a hunter but has ridden with local CO's and witnessed first hand what many of us already know...and some of you wish to deny.

CO's themseleves have been working with John to come up with regulations to either ban shining or limit it to the time before hunting seasons.

I can tell you right now that trying to convince John that it does not create a very very serious problem by allowing recreational shining during hunting season..you'll be wasting the "keystrokes"
</div></div>

This bill went nowhere even though John tried, too much opposistion from farmers and "people who like to take pictures of deer" (according to John)

It's all but impossible for CO's to fight poaching period, let alone with legal shining. If lights were illegal then they only have to concentrate on lights...cause' they would be out there illegally!

Anway...I/we have said all that in previous "passionate arguements"...so until I hear that a bill has a snowballs chance in he$$ of passing I'm not gonna get to worked up over it... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif

[River1]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I have spot lighted before and it just makes me feel dirty doing it </div></div> /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

It makes me feel dirty to and that's not easy to do.

It's already hard enough getting permission to hunt in my area, I don't think going out and spotlighting the local's fields is going to help my cause any.


I pretty much agree with all Ghost said, get rid of it.




Dbl,

I hear ya. You can waste a lot of time and grief over issues that aren't going anywhere. Just keep a close eye on stuff and save the energy for later. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

[tlambert]

Being from WI where spotlighting is legal, I can say its a bad deal. I've done it a couple times in the past, but no more.
It really hits home when I'm sitting at my parents house and every 10 minutes a vehicle goes by and a spotlight hits the windows. Bad bad deal. Most of the people shining could really care less where they shine.
And the worst part of it up there, is when you hear a gunshot up the road when its pitch black outside.

[ironwood]

My kid and many people I know use spotting in a big way.

I agree completely with Ghosts comments. I won't be popular for that but that is how I see it. JNR really makes a great point as well.

[SaskGuy]

Well wood......the way I see it, you're now more popular bud, with me anyways....I totally agree with you guys too.

[SWBUCKHNTR]

I disagree with spotlighting as well. However I like most have done it before. The biggest deer I ever shot I seen him one night in a cornfield. The only reason I spotlighted him was he ran across the road chasing some does right in front of my truck and I had to look. the next morning I shot him 4 miles away across a river on a compltely different farm. So I see no reason to do it for scouting purposes during rut anyway because those bucks are going to go where ever the girls go, just like most of us.

Now my other opinion is that I dont think sitting in a truck looking at stuff without a spotlihgt is a lazy way to scout. Late summer early fall that is my best scouting tool. I put way more time in than many of my friends glassing fields and finding where the bucks are hanging out. And that is why I think I have more success than many of them. I dont consider it lazy I think it is the smartest way to scout without scaring deer out of your area. that is my opinion.