Acorns to Oaks!

[huntdoc]

Is there any benefit to adding a little miracle grow to the water or fertilizing the trees while still in the trays? Any tips to helping them be stronger before they will get transplanted? I can give them special treatment if needed as I don't have very many trees.

[letemgrow]

I fertilize them a couple times before transplanting them to the farm or bags. I have some packets that get dropped into a gallon of water and give them all a little soaking.

[bryan]

I think i remember someone posting something about drilling some more holes in the protex tree tubes... I just bought some and was wondering where and how many holes you were put in the tubes...

I was also wondering if a store like stiens or walmart would carry the rootmaker pots... I just found some acorns that were sprouting when i was turkey hunting and i want to get them planted as soon as possible...

,Thanks bryan

[dbltree]

I use a 3/8 auger bit and just drill a dozen holes randomly thru a stack of Protex tubes. I doubt you will find Rootmakers in any chain stores but you can order them from Big Rock Trees or just pick up some ordinary peat pots for this year.

Root growth won't be the same but you can certainly get by :way:

[bryan]

Thanks for the quick feedback i will probably just use some four inch square pots i have from planting perrenials then...

[Sligh1]

I was also wondering if a store like stiens or walmart would carry the rootmaker pots... I just found some acorns that were sprouting when i was turkey hunting and i want to get them planted as soon as possible...

,Thanks bryan

I know Dbltree mentioned Big Rock for pots BUT I'll second that and it'll be just as easy as running to the store BUT the quality and the benefits to your seedlings will be well worth it. If it were me, I would for sure get those rootmaker pots from Big Rock

[bryan]

Alright you guys talked me into it... I guess i will try putting the acorns in the fridge till the rootmaker pots come... Man i have spent alot of time and money on trees year... But it's just so freakin fun!!! haha

[letemgrow]

Thanks for the quick feedback i will probably just use some four inch square pots i have from planting perrenials then...


The roots will cirlce in the bottom of regular plastic pots that do not train the roots to grow out and/or prune them to create more lateral roots.

I would not keep them in those type pots very long and you will have to cut the roots at the bottom that circle before planting. Jiffy pots would be a MUCH better option at the chain stores where they promote root pruning and you can also plant the pot and all in the soil. Just remember, they cannot stay in those little pots long. I go with the 4 inch square or round jiffy pots and they work well for acorns.

[SDHunt24/7]

The roots will cirlce in the bottom of regular plastic pots that do not train the roots to grow out and/or prune them to create more lateral roots.

I would not keep them in those type pots very long and you will have to cut the roots at the bottom that circle before planting. Jiffy pots would be a MUCH better option at the chain stores where they promote root pruning and you can also plant the pot and all in the soil. Just remember, they cannot stay in those little pots long. I go with the 4 inch square or round jiffy pots and they work well for acorns.

Phil, I know we have chatted about the pots I used to plant my acorns in. I moved some of the sprouts to 4 inch pots a while back after talking to you. The pots I have them in now are the ones you can just put in the ground. After reading these last few posts on the thread, I am wondering if I will need to cut the roots back or not. Any advice on this. Dbltree I would love your input as well. From now on I will use the rootmaker cells you guys use. I have attached a couple pics of the pots I have them in. I hope I attached the photos correctly because I have not done that before on the forum. Thanks.

[letemgrow]

Phil, I know we have chatted about the pots I used to plant my acorns in. I moved some of the sprouts to 4 inch pots a while back after talking to you. The pots I have them in now are the ones you can just put in the ground. After reading these last few posts on the thread, I am wondering if I will need to cut the roots back or not. Any advice on this. Dbltree I would love your input as well. From now on I will use the rootmaker cells you guys use. I have attached a couple pics of the pots I have them in. I hope I attached the photos correctly because I have not done that before on the forum. Thanks.


No need to cut the roots back, they will penetrate those pots and will prune themselves with air....I would plant the seedlings out when they get to be about a foot tall in those containers.

Just check and make sure they don't try to circle in the bottom in 2-3 weeks as the roots should be down there easily by that time.

[SDHunt24/7]

No need to cut the roots back, they will penetrate those pots and will prune themselves with air....I would plant the seedlings out when they get to be about a foot tall in those containers.

Just check and make sure they don't try to circle in the bottom in 2-3 weeks as the roots should be down there easily by that time.
Just dig a hole a little bigger than the pot and fill it back in then? I already have protex tubes to put over them. I wasn't sure if I should plant them soon or wait until the stem looks a bit stronger. I have some approaching the 12 inch mark now, but they look some delicate.

[dbltree]

My whole reason for using the RM cells is because of the rapid growth that results from the air pruned, well developed root systems. No conventional peat pot will yield the same results long term, so while they can certainly start young seedlings that will result in healthy trees, long term growth rates will not be the same.

That being said I would follow Phil's advice in regards to using the pots and not be overly concerned with pruning roots. :)

[SDHunt24/7]

My whole reason for using the RM cells is because of the rapid growth that results from the air pruned, well developed root systems. No conventional peat pot will yield the same results long term, so while they can certainly start young seedlings that will result in healthy trees, long term growth rates will not be the same.

That being said I would follow Phil's advice in regards to using the pots and not be overly concerned with pruning roots. :)

Sounds like a winner. There is no advice as good as the experiences you guys have. I need to order some rootmakers from Big Rock. Do you use any of the trays that are also available to hold the 18 cell trays.

[letemgrow]

Just dig a hole a little bigger than the pot and fill it back in then? I already have protex tubes to put over them. I wasn't sure if I should plant them soon or wait until the stem looks a bit stronger. I have some approaching the 12 inch mark now, but they look some delicate.


I would wait a while longer till they get stronger up top then. You can always hold your hand out, and tip the pot over so the rootball stays in tact and see what the roots look like on the bottom of the pot.

Plan on transferring mine to the farm in another morth or less in the jiffy pots after I get the areas sprayed once for the cool seasons and then again for some warm season weeds.

[letemgrow]

Sounds like a winner. There is no advice as good as the experiences you guys have. I need to order some rootmakers from Big Rock. Do you use any of the trays that are also available to hold the 18 cell trays.


You can move them up to either the 5-gallon bags or smaller bags for further root pruning as Paul mentioned. I have dug the last hole for a 5-gallon bag I know that much. :D

Had problems with the potting mix being very porous and the surrounding soils being not nearly as well drained so the seedligs drowned from lack of drainage....so I just stick to the pots, express trays and 12 inch bags till they are transplanted out to the farm.

[SDHunt24/7]

You can move them up to either the 5-gallon bags or smaller bags for further root pruning as Paul mentioned. I have dug the last hole for a 5-gallon bag I know that much. :D

Had problems with the potting mix being very porous and the surrounding soils being not nearly as well drained so the seedligs drowned from lack of drainage....so I just stick to the pots, express trays and 12 inch bags till they are transplanted out to the farm.

Will you send me the item # or link to the page on the Big Rock website for the rootmakers that you guys use. I want to order some tomorrow, as I still have quite a few acorns to pot. Thanks, Bryan :)

[dbltree]

Here's a link to BRT's ....Big Rock Trees (http://www.bigrocktrees.com/supplies?zenid=a02b749548084b02a4cf4565d531793e)

I use the 18 cell trays along with the 10 x 20 plastic tray to hold them

Here's a link to RootMaker just for information on the subject

RootMaker (http://www.rootmaker.com/products_propagation.php)

Lot's of fun to start a few acorns in dixie cups or whatever and no reason not to do so as a fun project with the kids. I'm a 1/2 crazed habitat nut however so i want the fastest growing oaks I can find...started in a system that dramatically increase's that same trees growth rate which will in turn allow me to have trees that produce sweet tasting acorns....while I'm still alive! :D

[SDHunt24/7]

I think we all have to be a bit crazy :D for growing things like this in the house, trying our wives with all the time and money we spend on habitat the outdoors and hunting. One has to be a bit on the crazy side to find all the enjoyment he can in our little hobbies. Thanks for the info again guys!! :drink2:

[bryan]

:DI think we all have to be a bit crazy :D for growing things like this in the house, trying our wives with all the time and money we spend on habitat the outdoors and hunting. One has to be a bit on the crazy side to find all the enjoyment he can in our little hobbies. Thanks for the info again guys!! :drink2:

Not to many people understand the addiction... It never stops, I see a new oak that phil or dbltree talk about and i want it ha ha... Only so much room to plant them though... Almost time to buy more land!:grin:

[letemgrow]

:D

Not to many people understand the addiction... It never stops, I see a new oak that phil or dbltree talk about and i want it ha ha... Only so much room to plant them though... Almost time to buy more land!:grin:


There is always another great native to plant that I just found out about.....more are on the way too!!! :way:

[dbltree]

May 3rd, 2011

Planted acorns about a month ago now...here are pics at 2 weeks

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/IMG_0005-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/IMG_0006-2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/IMG_0004-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/IMG_0003.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/IMG_0002-1.jpg

and at 4 weeks

Dwarf Chinkapin Oak

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/CIMG2746.jpg

Assorted whites and reds

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/CIMG2744.jpg

TimBur Chestnuts

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/CIMG2745.jpg

The DCO's from Alabama are pretty spindly and not as robust as the ones from Oikos and native Missouri tree sources last year? We have had several hard frosts and one more tonight but hopefully I can get them outside in the wind by this weekend. :way:

[huntdoc]

Getting ready to start planting a few of mine as well. Couple things I was wondering:How many holes do you add to your tree tubes? Do you add anything special to the hole when planting?

[dbltree]

Getting ready to start planting a few of mine as well. Couple things I was wondering:How many holes do you add to your tree tubes? Do you add anything special to the hole when planting?

I just drill a 1/2 dozen randomly spaced 3/8 holes thru mine and that has worked for me but don't have any scientific information on how much is enough or not?

I don't add anything but I guess that is optional depending on your soils? The trees I plant are very adapted to our heavy clay soils and the roots are so well developed in the RM cells they really take off! :way:

[bryan]

Can't wait... I am at the two week stage right now!!! More and more pop up everyday

[huntdoc]

Just noticed that one of the bur oaks planted on 2/20 took until first week of May to sprout. Be patient, some of them take awhile!

[dbltree]

Amazing how fast seedlings grow in the RootMaker cells! These chestnuts are growing like crazy!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/IMG_0002-2.jpg

oaks

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/IMG_0004-2.jpg

Not to happy with the Dwarf Chinkapins from Advantage Nursery however...very poor germination and those that have are spindly and weak unlike those I have planted from Oikos or acorns sent to me by friends.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/IMG_0003-1.jpg

90 degree temps allowed me to get them outside where the wind can toughen them up too!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/IMG_0001-1.jpg

I add Miracle Gro once a week when I water them too...;)

[letemgrow]

I have a few of the DCO's from AF that have germinated, but they are just out of the ground so the verdict is still out on fall planting of DCO's from AF.

[bryan]

Can't wait to get these outside...
How long does it usually take for the roots to fill in the whole rootmaker pots? I tried taking out the biggest oak and it still wasn't all the way to the bottem...
They are looking pretty good though... Not forsure what kind they are though... Found them while i was turkey hunting...:way:

http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=616&pictureid=6818

http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=616&pictureid=6817

[OHIOshedder]

Looks like you've got something in the red oak family, but hard for me to tell what kind when they are so young.

For those using tree tubes- this is my first year with them and I'm wondering if the trunks of the oak trees inside the protection of the tubes will toughen up since they are not subjected to wind....some of my tubed sprouts are looking a bit spindly.

[letemgrow]

For those using tree tubes- this is my first year with them and I'm wondering if the trunks of the oak trees inside the protection of the tubes will toughen up since they are not subjected to wind....some of my tubed sprouts are looking a bit spindly.


What diameter tube are you using? I get along great with wider diameter tubes that are vented so the seedlings harden off.

[OHIOshedder]

I think they are 4" diameter, they are the blue vented tubes, maybe the vents will let in enough breeze to harden them?

[letemgrow]

I think they are 4" diameter, they are the blue vented tubes, maybe the vents will let in enough breeze to harden them?


The vented tubes are the only way to go where there are cold winter temps. It has been my experience that wider diameter tubes give a bigger diameter seedlings. Have not tested this on a wide scale to be absolutely certain tho, but if you have the time and money...double up some tubes and compare the results between single and double diameter tubes.

[OHIOshedder]

They have little punchouts like a hole puncher. I only halfway punched them out and left 'hanging chads' on the tubes that mostly block the vents. Maybe I need to go around and remove the hanging chads. If I see a few great performers of my rarer oaks, I may have to sacrifice a few tubes and try doubling them.

[Central Iowa]

What determines what length of tube you want?

[letemgrow]

What determines what length of tube you want?


For me its deer browse, the 5 footers are needed to keep deer for constantly browsing the tops. Those does learn pretty fast what is in those tubes. :D

[Central Iowa]

:D And what the drooling guy in the tree with the bow and fork wants! Shooting browsing acorn fattened does to fill the freezer Thanks, another mystery solved.

[Central Iowa]

Finally protected some of these direct seeded White Oaks so they are able to get past a year of browsing. These were planted a couple years ago and have been browsed back every year. I sprayed with Oust in April. My plan is to add around an acre a year or more if acorns are plentifull. Grand plan is to fill in about 10 acres.

[letemgrow]

Finally protected some of these direct seeded White Oaks so they are able to get past a year of browsing. These were planted a couple years ago and have been browsed back every year. I sprayed with Oust in April. My plan is to add around an acre a year or more if acorns are plentifull. Grand plan is to fill in about 10 acres.


Looks great!!

[dbltree]

Looking good Travis! :way:

[LoessHillsArcher]

How have the fall planted acorns and chestnuts been working out for everyone? We're considering doing this instead of spring planting bareroot seedlings... but we are weighing the pros/cons of each still

[letemgrow]

How have the fall planted acorns and chestnuts been working out for everyone? We're considering doing this instead of spring planting bareroot seedlings... but we are weighing the pros/cons of each still


Had about 75% germination rate this past fall with chestnuts and acorns...I like to plant 3-4 per tube of the acorns and 2 per tube of the American Chestnuts since I do not get many of them.

Pros:

Its quick, easy and there is not any transplant shock to that method.

Cons:

Weed control and protection is a must have...I use tubes and also keep the ground to bare dirt from a weed control perspective. Never had any issues with rodents this way getting in the tube and digging up the acorn.

This was an American Chestnut I planted 2 falls ago, this pic was taken in June or July last summer and it grew even more than that after-wards.

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k445/pes1979/Trees%20on%20the%20Farm/100_1492.jpg

Dwarf Chinkapin planted 2 falls ago, just like the chestnut above...pic was taken last summer as well.

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k445/pes1979/Trees%20on%20the%20Farm/100_1484.jpg

[bryan]

Was finally able to plant my oaks outside... Just hope they do all right...
http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=616&pictureid=7070

[letemgrow]

Can't wait to see how they do Bryan!!

[DH1]

I have some oak growing in vented 5ft tubes, some are about half way up out of the tube others are close to the top. They’ve been in them for about 2 and ½ years. They all did well through the first summer but last summer and early this spring it seemed like I’d lost a few each season. They are for the most part on filed edges, so they get quite a bit of sun throughout the day. I’m thinking some of them get fried from the heat. When I picked up the tubes I was under the impression that it would be best to leave them on until the oaks is several feet out of the tube, then again some folks seem to pull them out of the tube after 2-3 years regardless of their height.
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So it seems like my options are to leave them in the tubes but I’m tempted to pull some of the tubes and put fence around them since they’ve been in them for 2-3 years.
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Any thoughts with this stage of trees would be appreciated.

[letemgrow]

I have some oak growing in vented 5ft tubes, some are about half way up out of the tube others are close to the top. They’ve been in them for about 2 and ½ years. They all did well through the first summer but last summer and early this spring it seemed like I’d lost a few each season. They are for the most part on filed edges, so they get quite a bit of sun throughout the day. I’m thinking some of them get fried from the heat. When I picked up the tubes I was under the impression that it would be best to leave them on until the oaks is several feet out of the tube, then again some folks seem to pull them out of the tube after 2-3 years regardless of their height.
ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>
So it seems like my options are to leave them in the tubes but I’m tempted to pull some of the tubes and put fence around them since they’ve been in them for 2-3 years.
<O:p></O:p>
Any thoughts with this stage of trees would be appreciated.

Dont pull the tubes off this time of year, it can burn the leaves and set the tree back big time. Wait till they go dormant this fall, or come spring.

Are your tubes vented?

[DH1]

- most of the tubes came vented, some became vented after I drilled some holes into them

[letemgrow]

- most of the tubes came vented, some became vented after I drilled some holes into them


I have never had any fry in the heat even getting full sun all day long. Maybe there is some problem with the moisture content in the tubes and that is causing problems?

[huntdoc]

I have not been able to plant my seedlings so they are still in the rootmakers. SOme are having leaves turn brown and drop off. Is this heat related? I water routinely and add Miracle grow about once a week. Not real worried as this was just a small fun side project but was curious what went wrong. Bothering the Burr Oak more than the Northern reds.

[letemgrow]

I have not been able to plant my seedlings so they are still in the rootmakers. SOme are having leaves turn brown and drop off. Is this heat related? I water routinely and add Miracle grow about once a week. Not real worried as this was just a small fun side project but was curious what went wrong. Bothering the Burr Oak more than the Northern reds.


Probably watered them too much, or too much fertilizer possibly? Are they in the rootmaker bags or still in the trays?

[huntdoc]

Trays. Can heat stress do this? I'll try and get a picture.

[SDHunt24/7]

I have not been able to plant my seedlings so they are still in the rootmakers. SOme are having leaves turn brown and drop off. Is this heat related? I water routinely and add Miracle grow about once a week. Not real worried as this was just a small fun side project but was curious what went wrong. Bothering the Burr Oak more than the Northern reds.

I am having the same thing happen to some of my oak seedlings. They are planted in the rootmaker 18 cell trays from Big Rock. They look green and healthy one day and then the next time I check them the edges of the leaves are turning brown and falling off and the stem gets darker and brittle. I have had them in the garage on the very hot days so don't think its heat. I may have watered them too much. Could that cause this problem.

[letemgrow]

I am having the same thing happen to some of my oak seedlings. They are planted in the rootmaker 18 cell trays from Big Rock. They look green and healthy one day and then the next time I check them the edges of the leaves are turning brown and falling off and the stem gets darker and brittle. I have had them in the garage on the very hot days so don't think its heat. I may have watered them too much. Could that cause this problem.


Its very easy to over-water in those cells. I have ran a few tests and they can go 4 days or more without watering when the temps are in the 70s. How much have you been watering them?? I believe that is a very common problems for seedling mortality.

[dbltree]

I water mine twice daily and soak them done heavily or they dry out quickly and no plants have done anything but thrive, this year and last. I use Miracle Gro potting soil so perhaps it is different but I have found it impossible to over water mine.

They are also out in the hot sun and wind so not sure what is going on with the ones that are turning brown? :confused:

[DH1]

generally with most plants:
- if watered too much the leaves turn yellow
- if not watered enough leaves turn brown

[dbltree]

generally with most plants:
- if watered too much the leaves turn yellow
- if not watered enough leaves turn brown

I would agree...last year mine didn't get watered for a week in very hot dry weather and I really thought many of them died. The leaves turned brown and fell off but I started watering them like crazy and 95% of them sprouted new leaves and eventually came back!

The RM cells are very small and of course perforated making it impossible for them to "hold" water unless very heavy clay like soils are used. The potting mix soils are actually "soilless" and designed to absorb and retain moisture but in a vented container could never hold enough water to drown seedlings.

This is something we need to explore in depth and determine why some of us are finding different results?

How long can trees go between watering give the same soil medium in the same RM cells?

Is there a difference in growth if different soil mediums are used and varying amounts of water used?

Phil was kind enough to send me some Root Trapper bags and I took his advice and mixed up a more normal soil mixture. In those bags my Kazak and Concordia trees are thriving despite being outside in constant relentless flooding rains and I have left them for a week in hot dry weather without watering...very different of course then the tiny RM starting cells.

I have Eastern Gamagrass growing in the very small 32 cell RM cells and they can not last a day in hot dry weather without watering using the soilless potting mix.

The whole idea behind the RM cells is to grow the seedlings until the root systems completely displace the soil, all the while growing outward rather then swirling in circles and becoming root bound.

My feeling is this...corn can be grown with out irrigation, but yields can be significantly higher when the crop has an almost constant source of water. Combined with proper nutrient levels, peak yields can be achieved...that same principle I believe can be applied here.

Constant watering combined with fertilizers like Osmokote and MiracleGro can force more rapid and aggressive growth. The RM seedlings I planted last fall (started in the spring) have far outpaced and seedlings started from seed by planting them conventionally.

Those growing a few seedlings just for fun may not be concerned with much of this, but others (like myself) are hoping for maximum growth from seedling to fist mast production...in which case aggressive watering and feeding can help us achieve that.

Share the type of soils you use in your cells and how often you typically water during hot summer months (80 degrees and up) and how often you use any added nutrients....;)

[letemgrow]

My problem has been over-watering while they are still young. Once the roots fill up the cells then constant watering is needed IMO when it gets really hot out and that is a sign its time to,"move em on up".

The soiless surely need more watering than using a soil since the aeration is much better. An easy way to test is to use 3 trays side by side...then water one daily, one every 3 days and one every 5-6 days and see what happens. Then again, you would have to put them where rainfalls would not hit either.

[dbltree]

My problem has been over-watering while they are still young. Once the roots fill up the cells then constant watering is needed IMO when it gets really hot out and that is a sign its time to,"move em on up".

The soiless surely need more watering than using a soil since the aeration is much better. An easy way to test is to use 3 trays side by side...then water one daily, one every 3 days and one every 5-6 days and see what happens. Then again, you would have to put them where rainfalls would not hit either.

That makes sense Phil! When the seedlings are inside and just starting I don't use much water either but when they are moved outside it's a different story.

Your thoughts on comparing "watering" are exactly what I had in mind, especially in hot summer months when rains might be few and far between...;)

[goatman]

This is my first year with growing seedlings. I use MiracleGro soiless with no extra fertilizer. In the 18 cell I'm watering everyday since it got hot. In the round gallon RM pots I'm watering once a week. Oaks and 2 catalpa are still putting on growth. It does make a difference when the roots fill the 18 cells. Thats when I'm transferring to gallon pots. And so far I have no shock to the trees when transferring.Can't wait for acorn drop this fall.

[SDHunt24/7]

Its very easy to over-water in those cells. I have ran a few tests and they can go 4 days or more without watering when the temps are in the 70s. How much have you been watering them?? I believe that is a very common problems for seedling mortality.

I water mine every other day. They are in partial sun and when it gets in the 90's I put them in the garage in front of the window. They will go home with me to the farm and into the ground in two weeks. More rain back home so they should do ok in the ground right?

[dbltree]

I water mine every other day. They are in partial sun and when it gets in the 90's I put them in the garage in front of the window. They will go home with me to the farm and into the ground in two weeks. More rain back home so they should do ok in the ground right?

If the root systems are very well developed I have had great luck planting them out almost any time all summer long. If it doesn't rain for a month after planting you may lose some but if you get periodic rains they do fine.

Make sure you cover the roots/soil medium well with top soil otherwise the soil medium will quickly dry out...;)

[dbltree]

July 27th, 2011

The seedlings growing in the Rootmaker cells are doing great! Sure is a fun, economical way to start your own oak and chestnut seedlings from seed... 8-)

Red oak seedlings from acorns I picked up at a friends farm...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/Redoak.jpg

Timburr chestnuts from seed purchased from Oikos Tree crops

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/Chestnutseedling.jpg

White Oaks from seed sent to me by my friend letemgrow

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/Whiteoak.jpg

and Dwarf Chinkapins from seed purchased from Advantage Nursery

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/Chinkapin.jpg

The next step up from the Rootmaker cells is the Root Trapper bags or at least one of the possibles offered...and I have Concordia oaks and Kazak apples in those

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Root%20Trappers/Concordiaoak.jpg

Despite blast furnace heat and no rain for a month now, I only water the trees in the bags once a week

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Root%20Trappers/Rootmakerseedlings.jpg

I have had zero mortality and using MiracleGro and slow release Osmokote fertilizers these things grow like weeds and develop some amazing root systems unlike any normal bare root seedling purchased from a nursery... :way:

[huntdoc]

My seedlings continue to turn brown, drop leaves, then sprout new healthy looking leaves. Only one has dropped and then died. Been keeping them watered regularly so I think I'm going to increase the frequency of fertilizing. If the weather weren't so dry and hot I would just get them in the ground.

[dbltree]

I noticed that Big Rock Trees is carrying the mesh Root Trapper bags also now

Big RockTrees (http://www.bigrocktrees.com/supplies?sort=20a&page=2)

This nursery has some great pictures of different Root Maker products in use including the mesh bags

Nettle Creek Nursery (http://www.nettlecreeknursery.com/rootmaker.html)

and the Root Maker site itself

Root Maker (http://www.rootmaker.com/rootmakersystem.php#jump)

I have found the difference in growth between the ones grown in RM products to those planted as an acorn or seedling are quite amazing! Worth taking a look at it if you enjoy starting your own trees from seed... :way:

[dbltree]

August 5th, 2011

I transferred some Timburr chestnuts that I started from seed this spring in Rootmaker cells to Root Trapper bags the other day. This gives you an idea of growth and root development...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_5635.jpg

The chestnut seedlings grow like crazy in the RM cells

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_5636.jpg

One nice thing about the RT bags is they don't need constant daily watering

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_5637.jpg

I'll plant these out this fall and use tubes to protect them.... ;)

[letemgrow]

Anyone looking for a timber quality red oak that will grow in a creek/river bottom should seriously consider a shumard oak. This tree has some amazing growth from what I can tell...even with the month dry spell it just kept growing.

I am in zone 5A like the bottom half of IA and they made it through this past's bitter winter in great shape!! The growth in the rigid mesh tube portion is all new for this year. These were XL one year old seedlings from the MDC nursery for 12 bucks per 25 seedlings. XL seedlings are those with the best growth for that particular year out of the whole bunch and are usually 30+ inches. Some are over 4 feet tall in one growing season!!

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k445/pes1979/Trees%20on%20the%20Farm/100_0396-1.jpg

[DH1]

Some questions for thing’s that I’m not able to piece together:
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
I’m looking at planting some Oak hybrid seedlings this fall, compliments of our friends at Idaho State Nursery and Oikos. They are getting planted in zone 4, I have several sites coving these four conditions from high and dry sandy rocky and sandy loam to sandy loam low well drained and sandy loam low poorly drained. Even the sandy rocky is growing alfalfa and in the lower areas, clover so it’s decent soil, just somewhat lower in fertility is the knock on it. Over the next few years I’ll be looking into something best suited for each location. Although I’m picking up a few Burgambles from ISU for this fall;
<o:p> </o:p>
- I’m also looking for a hybrid with a reputation for dropping acorns later in the season, ideally over late October and early November, any recommendations (zone 4)?
- I was planning to plant about 80% of the trees ordered for this fall and the remaining 20%, put in the 5” roottrapper bags over winter and into spring and then plant next year once they out-grow them. I was looking at it as experimental and considering the benefits of the additional root branching versus putting the plugs or pots straight into the ground. But, I have been reviewing some of the post from last year and I am doubting if this is still a good plan. Is this insane?
<o:p> </o:p>
I’ll be out in the woods the next few days, camping, but I’m trying to sort it out by next week, so I can put an order in before too long without worrying about running out of stock.

[dbltree]

If you plant anything in root trappers to over winter, "plant" the bags int the dirt for the winter, above ground they seem to free to hard and the trees may winter kill. Otherwise I think it's a great plan!

I plant some of everything just for fun so not sure on the late acorns? Send Ken Asmus an email at Oikos and get his thought son that subject?

The swamp white oak hybrids are very winter hardy and bear 8-10 years...that much I know...:way:

[SDHunt24/7]

I was wondering when the sources from the first page of this thread normally have this years crop of acorns for sale. I am interested in some DCO and some burgambel for sure. Anything else I should try in north central Nebraska? Several red and white oaks currently on my property and have planted swamp, white, and more red oak. Thanks guys.:)

[dbltree]

I was wondering when the sources from the first page of this thread normally have this years crop of acorns for sale. I am interested in some DCO and some burgambel for sure. Anything else I should try in north central Nebraska? Several red and white oaks currently on my property and have planted swamp, white, and more red oak. Thanks guys.:)

Oikos will offer acorns and chestnuts later this fall but may not always offer DCO seed...I'll keep you posted if I run across sources for seed later this fall.

[SDHunt24/7]

Oikos will offer acorns and chestnuts later this fall but may not always offer DCO seed...I'll keep you posted if I run across sources for seed later this fall.
That would be great! I have really enjoyed Growing my own trees. Thanks Dbltree.

[letemgrow]

I was wondering when the sources from the first page of this thread normally have this years crop of acorns for sale. I am interested in some DCO and some burgambel for sure. Anything else I should try in north central Nebraska? Several red and white oaks currently on my property and have planted swamp, white, and more red oak. Thanks guys.:)

The NE state arborteum sells DCO acorns in the fall...if they can collect enough and it would be the closest native source for you that I know of. Give this guy a call and tell him Phil sent ya.

Robert Henrickson
402-472-7855

[SDHunt24/7]

The NE state arborteum sells DCO acorns in the fall...if they can collect enough and it would be the closest native source for you that I know of. Give this guy a call and tell him Phil sent ya.

Robert Henrickson
402-472-7855

Thanks Phil! I will give him a call. Truly appreciate how helpful you and Dbltree have been.:)

[DH1]

- Thanks dbltree for the feedback the oak seedlings.
- I noticed last week that Idaho St Unv nursery had their oak hybrid seedlings available for this fall or next spring, for anyone who’s considering that option. Last year by the time I got around to it they were already sold out.
- They also have some other shrubs / browse that would be of interest for someone looking to diversify for habitat range (serviceberry, snowberry, chokecherry)

[DH1]

For some of the browse stuff I mentioned earlier, the link below was useful. This research paper is TMI for sure, but some of the appendexes are easy enough to make sense of.

https://files.me.com/ecologicalsolutions/llmg2j

[bowman]

Guys, if this has already been covered I apologise. Can you pick the acorns from the tree or do you have to wait until they fall. I have my eye on a very nice, but young, swamp white oak that has acorns within reach. I'm cheking it every other day but the acorns still look pretty green. Can I just reach up an pick them or should I wait for mother nature? Another question, will the late dropping trait cary on with trees grown by these acorns (no signs of dropping on September 23rd) or will it drop earlier as the tree matures?

Thanks again!:way:

[dbltree]

Guys, if this has already been covered I apologize. Can you pick the acorns from the tree or do you have to wait until they fall. I have my eye on a very nice, but young, swamp white oak that has acorns within reach. I'm checking it every other day but the acorns still look pretty green. Can I just reach up an pick them or should I wait for mother nature? Another question, will the late dropping trait carry on with trees grown by these acorns (no signs of dropping on September 23rd) or will it drop earlier as the tree matures?

Thanks again!:way:

I always wait til they fall but I don't let them dry out either! I'm not sure it would hurt anything if the acorns were starting to fall, if you picked some from the tree but I really don't know for certain?

I expect that the later drop date would hold tree as the tree matures and that a high percentage of the seedlings may follow suit...:way:

[DWilk]

I always wait til they fall but I don't let them dry out either! I'm not sure it would hurt anything if the acorns were starting to fall, if you picked some from the tree but I really don't know for certain?

I expect that the later drop date would hold tree as the tree matures and that a high percentage of the seedlings may follow suit...:way:

If the tree is small enough, try shaking it and see if any detach. If nothing falls, you may be early. Swamp white drops a little later than many of the oaks. I believe there is a small genetic role associated with holding the acorns on individual trees, but it also has some to do with the age of the tree and other environmental factors.

My advice... shake the heck out of the tree; if acorns fall, pluck away, if not, wait a little while.

[bowman]

If the tree is small enough, try shaking it and see if any detach. If nothing falls, you may be early. Swamp white drops a little later than many of the oaks. I believe there is a small genetic role associated with holding the acorns on individual trees, but it also has some to do with the age of the tree and other environmental factors.

My advice... shake the heck out of the tree; if acorns fall, pluck away, if not, wait a little while.


Will do, thanks!!

[letemgrow]

I pick them from the tree....if they pull easily out of the cap. If not, wait till they do and its the best way to get really fresh acorns. If they are starting to turn color, I pick away at will if they are still on the tree.

Dwilk as gave a great option. Shaking the tree will let you know what is ready and the swamp white seem to drop later than most white oaks at least in my area.

[dbltree]

Good time to be observing and watching for the most prolific oak trees in your area and scooping up some "seed" for either direct seeding this fall or starting in Rootmakers next spring.

We came across this young white oak that was laden with acorns!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/WOacorn.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/WOacorn2.jpg

Deer had been scarfing them up but we found a few to store for next spring!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/WOacorn3.jpg

We also found some burr oaks...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/Burroakacorn2.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/IMG_6162.jpg

Ground covered with hulls

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/IMG_6161.jpg

and the trees loaded

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/IMG_6162.jpg

I had stuck a cam there earlier unaware there was even and oak tree there and the card was full from all the action!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/Buckinacorns.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/DeerinAcorns.jpg

Burr oaks are usually not considered the favored acorn compared to other white oak species but every tree we came across had few acorns left for us to scoop up!

Pic of burr oak leaves

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/IMG_6163.jpg

and bark

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Acorns/IMG_6164.jpg

I have had the best luck storing the acorns in a ziploc bag in some damp peat moss (Miracle Gro potting soil) but some prefer a lunch sack or some such but all stored in the fridge for the winter...pick up a dozen or hundreds and get some seedlings started next spring... :way:

[Hardwood11]

Deer and turkey absolutely love bur oak acorns in my area. We had a bumper crop and I had over 200 pictures of deer on my camera below a big bur oak tree in one week. No big bucks though:(

[dtr]

The deer on my farm really like the burr oak acorns too. I have one burr oak that seems like it produces a bumper crop of acorns every year and the deer are there everyday. For some reason the burr oaks on my farm seem to produce a lot more acorns than the white oaks. Nots sure why?

[letemgrow]

The deer on my farm really like the burr oak acorns too. I have one burr oak that seems like it produces a bumper crop of acorns every year and the deer are there everyday. For some reason the burr oaks on my farm seem to produce a lot more acorns than the white oaks. Nots sure why?


Could be many reasons as to why the burs are out producing the white oaks...are they possible hybrids? White oaks are also notorious for heavy crops about once every 3-4 years and that is it in some cases. The white oaks produce just as well as the bur oaks on my place and have had heavy crops at least every other year over the past 7 years.

[DWilk]

Could be many reasons as to why the burs are out producing the white oaks...are they possible hybrids? White oaks are also notorious for heavy crops about once every 3-4 years and that is it in some cases. The white oaks produce just as well as the bur oaks on my place and have had heavy crops at least every other year over the past 7 years.

Generally, burs produce large crops at more even intervals than white oaks (every 2-3 years for bur, and every 3-5 for white). While that will vary to some extent (weather plays a big role, etc.), generally speaking, burs are more consistent. A good white oak crop is always a good thing :way:

[letemgrow]

A good white oak crop is always a good thing :way:

Tell me about it, there is one white oak next to my parents house that has been loaded 3 out of the last 4 years and it is a deer magnet! The other year it had acorns still, but not a whole pile of them. The other mature white oaks do not compare when it comes to producing like this one year in and year out.

The deer sure learn quick and gobble up those acorns on the ground since I spray the grass around that tree to make it easier to pick up the acorns for planting....the deer are just as lazy as me. :D

[Hardwood11]

After seeing the acorns draw in deer and turkey to my farms this year, I'll be planting even more oaks in the future. We plant a minimum of 100 every year, and a bunch of acorns. I still run in to landowners that claim that oaks..."take to long to grow" or "do not produce acorns for 50 years"...they are simply missing out!

[letemgrow]

After seeing the acorns draw in deer and turkey to my farms this year, I'll be planting even more oaks in the future. We plant a minimum of 100 every year, and a bunch of acorns. I still run in to landowners that claim that oaks..."take to long to grow" or "do not produce acorns for 50 years"...they are simply missing out!

They also used to believe in only shooting bucks and to shoot all spikes. :D

[bulldogger55]

I have 10 acres of tree plots on my South Dakota farm. The plantings are in their 4th year and the deer browse on my bur oaks is incredible. I am going to replace about 100 trees that didn't make it and I plan on using tree tubes on them. My question is can I use tubes on the existing trees that are about 3' tall and have been browsed heavily already. Most of the oaks are now fairly "bushy" and I am just wondering if they would respond to being constricted to a tube.

[letemgrow]

I have 10 acres of tree plots on my South Dakota farm. The plantings are in their 4th year and the deer browse on my bur oaks is incredible. I am going to replace about 100 trees that didn't make it and I plan on using tree tubes on them. My question is can I use tubes on the existing trees that are about 3' tall and have been browsed heavily already. Most of the oaks are now fairly "bushy" and I am just wondering if they would respond to being constricted to a tube.


They will shoot up in growth big time if you put a tube on them. May want to trim up the trees back to a central leader.

[dbltree]

I have 10 acres of tree plots on my South Dakota farm. The plantings are in their 4th year and the deer browse on my bur oaks is incredible. I am going to replace about 100 trees that didn't make it and I plan on using tree tubes on them. My question is can I use tubes on the existing trees that are about 3' tall and have been browsed heavily already. Most of the oaks are now fairly "bushy" and I am just wondering if they would respond to being constricted to a tube.

Tubes will definitely help and we have done the same thing with some of our heavily browsed oaks...if you can get the tube over the tree at this point.

Another option if need be is to cut the tree off at the ground and then install the tube and the tree will send up a new sprout and your off to the races again. This is generally the option foresters in my area recommend when trees have been heavily damaged by bucks rubbing the tree. ;)

[OHIOshedder]

Looking for some help identifying scarlet-vs-schumard-vs-black oak. I have a tree that I think is a scarlet oak, the acorns have overlapping scales on the cap and leaves are pointed and deeply lobed almost like a pin oak. I'm seeing a lot of conflicting pictures in random internet searches and hoping maybe you guys have some tips that I could use to identify one or the other. Thanks in advance...

[dbltree]

Looking for some help identifying scarlet-vs-schumard-vs-black oak. I have a tree that I think is a scarlet oak, the acorns have overlapping scales on the cap and leaves are pointed and deeply lobed almost like a pin oak. I'm seeing a lot of conflicting pictures in random internet searches and hoping maybe you guys have some tips that I could use to identify one or the other. Thanks in advance...

I have tons of black oak not neither of the other two so far as i know but perhaps someone else can help?

[DWilk]

Looking for some help identifying scarlet-vs-schumard-vs-black oak. I have a tree that I think is a scarlet oak, the acorns have overlapping scales on the cap and leaves are pointed and deeply lobed almost like a pin oak. I'm seeing a lot of conflicting pictures in random internet searches and hoping maybe you guys have some tips that I could use to identify one or the other. Thanks in advance...

Do you have any pictures? Specifically, pictures of a few acorns, some buds, and a few different leaves (all three with a ruler or something for size reference). A photo of the tree as a whole and of the bark would be helpful as well.

[letemgrow]

Do you have any pictures? Specifically, pictures of a few acorns, some buds, and a few different leaves (all three with a ruler or something for size reference). A photo of the tree as a whole and of the bark would be helpful as well.


Yep, pics would really help out.

[bowman]

I have had the best luck storing the acorns in a ziploc bag in some damp peat moss (Miracle Gro potting soil) but some prefer a lunch sack or some such but all stored in the fridge for the winter...pick up a dozen or hundreds and get some seedlings started next spring... :way:

Another dumb question. I just picked up a bunch of swamp white acorns, float tested them, and they are currently in a zip lock with a damp paper towel in the refrigerator. I need to buy some peat moss. Is Miracle Grow Potting soil peat moss or does Miracle Grow sell peat moss? I'm easily confused.:confused::o

[letemgrow]

Another dumb question. I just picked up a bunch of swamp white acorns, float tested them, and they are currently in a zip lock with a damp paper towel in the refrigerator. I need to buy some peat moss. Is Miracle Grow Potting soil peat moss or does Miracle Grow sell peat moss? I'm easily confused.:confused::o


That potting soil is peat moss based so yes to both. :)

You can buy straight peat from wal-mart, Ace etc. It is usually in a white/green colored bag.

[DH1]

Is Miracle Grow Potting soil peat moss or does Miracle Grow sell peat moss?

Peat Moss - plain: lower PH, no nutrients, cheaper than potting soil, useful for sandy soil to help with water retention

Miracle grow/Schultz potting mix: peat moss, PH nutruel (lime added), NPK added, most of it slow release, cost more but you'll want to use this anyway for starting your acorns in when they are being potted.

I would think the plain peat without nutrients would work better for storage when you are hoping that that they don't sprout anytime soon but I don't know if it matters for storage.

[dbltree]

October 27th, 2011

I started oak, chestnut and eastern gamagrass seed in Rootmaker cells in early April this year and kept them growing all summer....

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_6462.jpg

White, red and dwarf chinkapin oaks along with Timburr chestnuts from Okios Tree Crops

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_6463.jpg

Last year summer rains were plentiful so I transplanted part of them mid summer but this year was a far different story so I kept them well watered in the RM cells

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_6464.jpg

The chestnuts and red oaks put on the most growth while the white oaks were much slower growing

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_6465.jpg

I moved some trees like these Timburr chestnuts into Roottrapper bags and with "room to roam" they grew twice as large as those left in the RM cells.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_6472.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_6473.jpg

Concordia oak

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_6474.jpg

These are pics of the eastern gamagrass root systems when pulled out of the cells...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_6466.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_6467.jpg

Dwarf Chinkapin oak seedling...the chestnuts came out easily but the oak roots attach to the bag fabric, not a big deal but takes a bit more to get the roots loose so don't expect it to come out in a neat package like the Rootmaker cells.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_6476.jpg

The Rootmaker cells have proven to be the most economical yet most effective way to start almost any seedling and the root growth is phenomenal. The cells will last for years if treated properly and Big Rock Trees (http://www.bigrocktrees.com/) is a great source for Rootmaker cells and bags.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_6475.jpg

I tubed everything with the last of the Protex tubes...and hauled water to the transplants since the ground is powder dry

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_6477.jpg

The Protex tubes are very functional but a bit of a pain to assemble so a friend sent me a link to a source for Tree Pro tubes where I found very reasonable prices for tubes and bamboo stakes.

Timber Management (http://www.timbermanagementandseed.com/timbermanagement/Store.aspx)

5' ventilated tubes are $2.50 each for 100+ and 1" x 5' bamboo stakes are $1.13 and the owner Mike Hamilton said shipping would be $20 per bundle of 50 tubes and 50 stakes so my next tube purchase will be from Mike!

I looked at 250 of these tubes that had been up since spring and not one was down or out of place, something that I cannot say for many other types of tree tubes. Timber Management and Seed is also a source for acorns and other seeds as well... :way:

[SDHunt24/7]

Dbltree: What website did you buy from Mike at. When I googled treepro I got treepro.com with someone named Tom Mills as the president. The tubes on this site are much more expensive for 60" tubes than you paid. I would love to order some of these tubes that you ordered. My protex tubes have been ok, but I have had several of them come open in the wind and also from cattle and deer rubbing on them. The bucks this fall have been knocking them around. Thanks.

[SDHunt24/7]

I am a little slow tonight!! I just clicked on the Timber Management link and now I see the tubes, but the 5' tubes are $3 and the 4' tubes are $2.50. Did you get a mass quantity deal or something? The 5 footers say 1-99 $3. Sure would like to find something that doesn't come open. Thanks.

[SDHunt24/7]

Wow!! As I said I am slow tonight Plus the kids are distracting me. I see the larger quantity 100+ discount. Let me know how these tubes hold up.

[dbltree]

Wow!! As I said I am slow tonight Plus the kids are distracting me. I see the larger quantity 100+ discount. Let me know how these tubes hold up.

:D Glad it makes sense now...what doesn't make sense is buying anywhere else...:way:

[dbltree]

I checked on some of the Protex tubes at a friends farm while checking his cams and as always...most of them are fine...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/2011-11-07_15-40-40_787.jpg

Others...not so much...in this case I think a buck ripped into it, opened it and broke off a young hybrid oak that had several years growth...kinda disheartening. While any tube can suffered an attack by hormone charged bucks these style of tubes are very vulnerable to opening up and exposing the young tree to damage.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/2011-11-07_15-33-14_199.jpg

Solid tubes may get tipped over such as this

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/2011-11-07_15-32-40_247.jpg

or this

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/2011-11-07_15-32-57_986.jpg

but will not do this

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/2011-11-07_15-40-22_111.jpg

In this case from animals chewing on them...the tabs and edges make them vulnerable to "chewing" that doesn't occur with solid tubes.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/2011-11-07_15-40-29_328.jpg

The tabs are a challenge from the get go because they are "stamped" out with perforations that must then be opened up one by one and the female side also opened and since they are often not cut entirely through one has to cut them with a knife. Not a problem for 20 tubes but to do 500 or more it is a real time consuming task.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/2011-11-07_15-53-16_401.jpg

The perforations on many of them are shifted and so bottom and top my not line up and fit right and that allows high winds to buffet them until they come loose.

On the plus side the material is pretty much indestructible and will last years longer then most other tubes, most of which are designed to "self destruct" or biodegrade over time so that they will slough away from the young tree without eventually girdling it. Young trees do grow well in them and they are probably one of the least expensive options.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Tree%20Tubes%20and%20protectors/2011-11-07_15-33-47_818.jpg

If spending countless hours assembling tubes is of no consequence and preferable to spending a few cents more per tube and maintaining the tubes that come apart then these tubes might be right for you. A couple of options to help hold them together might be duct tape around the tube and post and/or a minimum of 14" zip tie to go around the entire tube and post. (16" is better but harder to find)

My thoughts are that duct tape would also prevent the tube from sliding down the post and like the tube material would last for years, the downside again is that this would be also very laborious. If you live at your property and can maintain them it's probably not a huge deal but even then...I have better things to do with my time then put these things back together every couple months... ;)

[letemgrow]

Something else to consider about solid tubes...make sure and take them off the seedling before they get too big out of the top of the tube and send out lateral branches....they can be a burger to get off if they get too big before they are pulled off and the lateral branches cannot be moved.

Those that open up are much easier to take off the if they are left on the tree longer...but more time consuming than solid tubes to assemble. I am interested to see how long those miracle tubes last by tree pro. They sure will save a lot of time over assembling protex tubes that is for certain.

[letemgrow]

If anyone gets tired of their protex tubes and switches....I will gladly pay ya to take them off your hands :D

Once they are assembled, I can use them on 3-4 different tree plantings without having to assemble them again.

[SDHunt24/7]

Thanks again for the updates and info on the tubes fellas. I was home for 8 days deer hunting on our land in north central NE south central SD and out of 200 ported blue tubes the deer had demolished around 20 of them. After some effort I was able to put them back around the trees. I have also had either coons or coyotes chewing on a few of the tubes. I think I may try some of the tubes Dbltree was talking about a couple weeks ago. I have some dwarf chinkapin acorns from bob in NE that I need to plant after growing them in root makers next spring. Am I ok to keep them in the fridge and pot them in the spring? I have had them in the fridge for a month now at around 40 degrees and a couple of them have started to sprout in the ziplock bag. The fridge is in the garage.

[dbltree]

Am I ok to keep them in the fridge and pot them in the spring? I have had them in the fridge for a month now at around 40 degrees and a couple of them have started to sprout in the ziplock bag. The fridge is in the garage.

You bet...almost all of mine sprout over winter so that is pretty normal, just keep them refrigerated until planting into rootmakers in late winter/early spring.:way:

[SDHunt24/7]

You bet...almost all of mine sprout over winter so that is pretty normal, just keep them refrigerated until planting into rootmakers in late winter/early spring.:way:
Good. Thanks for the reassurance.

[letemgrow]

The colder you keep them the better IMO, this will delay them from putting on much of a tap root till you take them out come spring. Mine are just above freezing in the bottom of the fridge and they have just cracked open to show they are viable seeds. Very few have a 1/4" or less tap root coming out.

If you store them too warm in the fridge, you will have a mass or roots to untangle come spring.

[Bryan95]

Hey guys thought I would share some of my oaks with all of you guys. Im not all sure on if I know 100% on what they are but I think I do but tell me if Im wrong. This thread has helped me alot thanks dbltree!
These are just some of my oaks. The pins are going crazy! Just a few sprouted white oaks so far and no reds or burs yet.
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9064
Pin oak? correct?
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9065
White oak?
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9066
Sorry not all the greatest pics but thank you!

[letemgrow]

You have them backwards, the ones you are calling pin oaks are a white oak of some flavor. Looks like a Quercus Alba (white oak) to me.

[KSHUNTER]

I have 30 or so Chinkapin acorns in the frigde in peat, and they are all doing well(most have sprouted).

Then I have a pound of DCO's in the fridge also, I ordered them from a Bob Henrickson from the Nebraska Arboretum. I float tested, all showed good, then pacted them in damp peat like the others, and only a few have swelled up and craked on the bottom, none have sproted a taproot.

Is this normal? Come this spring when I go to starting them will they germinate then? I didn't know if DCO had a lower germ than the Chinkapin acorns?

Also I plan on doing quite a few in rootmakers this spring and then planting later. There is no way I can start all the acorns I have stored, can I go out and just hand plant some with a tree tube over the top? Can I do that now through spring, or wait until spring?

[letemgrow]

Give them time, the DCO's in my fridge are also slow to germinate, but they will get there. I'd prefer them not to germ till March in the fridge anyways when I go to plant them out.

[Bryan95]

Hey guys thought I would do a little update on some of my acorns. I know you guys start yours a lot later but I have been feeling ambitious so I have been starting some.
Here is my biggest white oak.
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9267
My big bur oak sprouted!
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9266
Got most of the ones that have sprouted planted now but have these left and the rest in my 2nd bag still to plant
http://www.iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9265

[bowman]

I hadn't paid much attention to my bags of accorns for the past month or so. I got them out of the refrigerator yesterday to find that one the bags had just started to develope a light layer of mold on many of the accorns!:confused: I got them out, rinsed and wiped off the mold. I then re-packed in new soil in new bags. So, my quetion is, has the mold already done the damage or might they make it?

Another question. Out of about 100 accorns in two bags, only about 5 or 6 had split. I also have a bag with 4 American Chestnut and one of them has sprouted with a 3 inch root. Is this a bad sign that only a few have cracked or sprouted?

Is see that Bryan95 has alread started planting them, when are the rest of you going to start?

Thanks!

[letemgrow]

I hadn't paid much attention to my bags of accorns for the past month or so. I got them out of the refrigerator yesterday to find that one the bags had just started to develope a light layer of mold on many of the accorns!:confused: I got them out, rinced and wiped off the mold. I then re-packed in new soil in new bags. So, my quetion is, has the mold already done the damage or might they make it?

Another question. Out of about 100 accorns in two bags, only about 5 or 6 had split. I also have a bag with 4 American Chestnut and one of them has sprouted with a 3 inch root. Is this a bad sign that only a few have cracked or sprouted?

Is see that Bryan95 has alread started planting them, when are the rest of you going to start?

Thanks!

Are you using peat for the mix in the acorns? It will do the best against mold cause of the low pH.

What kind of acorns do you have? Red oaks can take a while to break dormancy and go at their own pace where some break dormancy faster than others.

White oak acorns should have already cracked open if they are good...unless you got them fresh from the tree and stored them right at freezing.

[Hardwood11]

I've got a south facing hillside on my new property in Iowa that is around 6 acres. It is hay ground right now, but it is hard to get to, and maybe a good candidate for CRP.

I was thinking of a riparian buffer on the bottom half, and then WHIP/trees and maybe switchgrass on the remainder.

What oak trees do the best on a south facing hillside (around 39 CSR) soils are average, should have full sun.

[letemgrow]

I've got a south facing hillside on my new property in Iowa that is around 6 acres. It is hay ground right now, but it is hard to get to, and maybe a good candidate for CRP.

I was thinking of a riparian buffer on the bottom half, and then WHIP/trees and maybe switchgrass on the remainder.

What oak trees do the best on a south facing hillside (around 39 CSR) soils are average, should have full sun.


Regular white, bur oak, chinkapin and swamp white grow on south facing slopes on my average soils. I'd add in some black oak (dare I saw shingle oaks :D ) and pin oaks.

Northern Reds prefer north or east facing slopes for best growth so I would not put any of them there. I am trying some southern reds from the MDC this year. They say those seedlings should do well over most of MO. Worth a shot anyways since they are a good timber red oak tree that will grow in average soils.

I like the shotgun approach for your field...plant many of those types (and a few others) see what takes and go from there.

[bowman]

Are you using peat for the mix in the acorns? It will do the best against mold cause of the low pH.

What kind of acorns do you have? Red oaks can take a while to break dormancy and go at their own pace where some break dormancy faster than others.

White oak acorns should have already cracked open if they are good...unless you got them fresh from the tree and stored them right at freezing.

I am using Miracle Grow potting soil. They are swamp whites and I collected them from a tree that I checked every day and popped some from the cups when they got loose. I float tested them and got them in the potting soil right away in the fridge.I'm not sure what I did wrong except for maybe not checking them for the last month. Should I error on the side of too damp or too dry with the soil?

[letemgrow]

I am using Miracle Grow potting soil. They are swamp whites and I collected them from a tree that I checked every day and popped some from the cups when they got loose. I float tested them and got them in the potting soil right away in the fridge.I'm not sure what I did wrong except for maybe not checking them for the last month. Should I error on the side of too damp or too dry with the soil?


Swap for some straight peat instead. It will be more acidic than the potting mix to retard against mold. The potting mix works fine if you can get them enough air IMO. I have used both with good success, but check them weekly with the potting mix.

Swamp whites are not as fast at germinating from what I have seen like a quercus alba or chinkapin oak. They will sprout while still hanging on the tree. :D

Sounds like you did everything right if they were loose in the cap, they were as ready as ever will be. The medium used just has to be moist...too wet will harbor mold faster/easier. Moist to the touch is plenty.

[OHIOshedder]

I've had moldy acorns sprout just fine. Just make sure they don't get soft and rotten.

[Bryan95]

Thought I would do another little update. I am waiting on some rootmakes I ordered to transfer some of these into.
http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9824
http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9823
http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9822
http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9821
http://iowawhitetail.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=853&pictureid=9820

[dbltree]

Very nice! You may need to put a small fan on those to help strengthen the stems before you move them outside...;)

[KSHUNTER]

When you start planting the stored acorns do you plant them and put them outside as long as temps are above freezing or do you start them indoors and let them germinate before moving outside?

I have 18 cell root makers to start them in.

[letemgrow]

I wait till the can go outside, long as it does not get to much below freezing I start them outside then....say late March or so.

You can start them indoors, but to me, it was just too much extra work.

[Bryan95]

I started mine around the beginning of January and plan on putting them out when it warms up so March sometime

[bparker]

I planted about 30 white oak seeds January 2nd (I think they are swamp white oak) and 5 or 6 have more than one sprout coming out of the acorn. Should these be trimmed down to just one sprout per acorn?

http://i39.tinypic.com/2146xcn.jpg

[LoessHillsArcher]

I can't see the pic Banker but I know one sprout could be the root system and the other is the 'truck'... without seeing a pic I'm not sure what your seeds look like.

[dbltree]

Should these be trimmed down to just one sprout per acorn?

I would leave them for now and trim at planting if need be...haven't had it happen that often unless I planted several acorns.

[bowman]

Well, I'm pretty discouraged. Out of about 100 acorns only 6 have cracked with no sprouts. I only have 4 American Chestnuts but all 4 had cracked and started to sprout. So have 6 acorns and 4 Chestnuts in root makers as of tonight. Here's hoping that the acorns that I direct seeded do a little better than those that were in the refrigerator. The mold that I found a month or two ago must have shut them down.:confused:

I now have two 18 cell root makers and only 10 nuts to plant. Any chance that the other acorns will still sprout this late in the game? I was all ready to buy some tree tubes and grow some trees.:(

[goatman]

I'm in the same boat as you bowman. I have no Dunstan chestnuts that germinated. I have some wildlife chestnuts in now but none sprouted yet but they have been in only a few days. I will be rootmaking some swamp oaks this weekend. I'll probably finish the oaks in 1 gal. rootmakers all summer cause it looks like a dry spring is coming.

[huntdoc]

Bowman- I found many ways to screw up my trees, whether never sprouting or killing the ones that did come up. I just don't have the skills that several of these other guys have on here!! I have some spare tree tubes hidden away in the garage for the day when I get this figured out!!

[dbltree]

I planted some chestnuts on March 24th in Rootmaker cells

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_7525.jpg

They were already sprouted while in the fridge all winter

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_7526.jpg

I just use Miracle Gro potting soil...press them in

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_7527.jpg

and cover them up and water them well

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_7528.jpg

and on the 30th some were already popping up!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_7661.jpg

These were all hybrid chestnuts from Oikos Tree Crops and I have had outstanding success with acorns and chestnuts from them

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_7662.jpg

I also planted some Dwarf Chinkapin Chestnuts from Nebraska but not so sure about them yet?

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/IMG_7531.jpg

None germinated in the fridge nor have they come up yet but we'll see. Very inexpensive way to start young chestnut and oak seedlings and certainly a far higher survivability rate versus planting bare root stock and a whole lot easier to plant as well.... ;)

[goatman]

Paul how often do you water your chestnuts? I have some Oikos chestnuts this year and have good % growing.

[dbltree]

Paul how often do you water your chestnuts? I have some Oikos chestnuts this year and have good % growing.

They are outside in the wind so i water every day :way:

[OHIOshedder]

This year is my first trying the root maker cells. I've got many sawtooth, over cup, English oaks and one chestnut sprouted. How do I know when it's time to move them to a more spacious container?

[dbltree]

This year is my first trying the root maker cells. I've got many sawtooth, over cup, English oaks and one chestnut sprouted. How do I know when it's time to move them to a more spacious container?

I have left them in the rootmaker cells all summer so certainly no hurry to move them from the 18 cell containers...;)

[OHIOshedder]

Thanks. I've seen a few suggestions to plant or move them to a bigger root maker after 3-4 months. I'm thinking once the cell gets pretty full of roots the limited size of the 18 cell RM will start to hamper growth at some point.

[bryan]

It seems like all the acorns i collected last year had worm holes in them or had worms in them when i collected them... Did i harvest the acorns to late? If i put them in the fidge will it kill them worms that are in there because i don't really want them crawling around in my fridge? Just wondering what i can do to improve my success rate next year?

[dbltree]

Not sure I have the answer to the worms...guessing they were collected to late? if they have worm holes I suspect they are no longer viable?

[bryan]

No they were all bad... I picked them in sept. through october walking to check some cameras... Ever burr oak i cracked open at that time had a little white worm in them

[bowman]

Well, out of 4 chestnuts and over 100 swamp white acorns that I tried to nurse in the refrigerator, only 2 chestnuts and 21 oaks have sprouted and started growth. They are taking off in the rootmakers. I have tree tubes orderd but will be a few weeks. How long should I wait to get them planted and tubed? I should be able to water everything I plant on my place but a few will be going to a hutning property and I won't be able to get water to them. The photo below shows the two chestnuts on the back left. The rest are all swamp whites.

http://iowawhitetail.com/gallery/files/1040-new_trees_1.jpg

[dbltree]

How long should I wait to get them planted and tubed?

the longer they are in the RM cells the better Wayne, for best results the root systems should grow until they have displaced the soil medium in the cell. This does not mean you must wait, only that doing so allows the seedlings to achieve maximum root growth that is far different from that once place in the ground.

So...you can plant any time but I would at least give them a few more weeks and I typically wait til fall, keeping them fertilized and watered in the cells to get maximum growth.

The only bad timing would be during an extended drought in mid summer but in wet summers I have planted them in July with 100% successful survival.:way:

[bowman]

the longer they are in the RM cells the better Wayne, for best results the root systems should grow until they have displaced the soil medium in the cell. This does not mean you must wait, only that doing so allows the seedlings to achieve maximum root growth that is far different from that once place in the ground.

So...you can plant any time but I would at least give them a few more weeks and I typically wait til fall, keeping them fertilized and watered in the cells to get maximum growth.

The only bad timing would be during an extended drought in mid summer but in wet summers I have planted them in July with 100% successful survival.:way:

Thanks for the reply, I won't get in a rush then. I'll look back through this thread to see what to use as fertillizer and how much.

Thanks again, this has been as fun for the kids as it has for me!:way:

[dbltree]

May 13th, 2012

Because of the abnormally warm/early spring I started my chestnuts and acorns outside in late March and the variable temps definitely slowed or delayed germination compared to the 24/7 steady temps inside the house. Germination in the house is usually rapid and even but not so outside at least not in early spring.

The Chinese hybrid chestnuts were the first to sprout but the Timburr chestnuts were nearly 3 weeks late and acorns nearly 60 days after planting in the Root Maker cells!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/rm4-1.jpg

Unfortunately being first up was not necessarily a good thing this spring and even though I knew it was going to freeze I forgot to take the trays in on the one night it dropped to 23 degrees... freezing every emerged seedling and at first appeared to kill them.

Eventually however the determined seedlings have begun to re-emerge, many a full 30 days or more after being froze!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/rm5-1.jpg

It stands to reason that this will happen in the wild so nature gives the tiny seedlings enough energy to keep growing!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/rm6-1.jpg

Had these been protected they would have been a foot tall by now!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/rm7-1.jpg

The Timburr chestnuts emerged after the freeze and are growing to beat the band!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/rm2-1.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/rm1-1.jpg

I use a little Osmocote fertilizer on the seedlings once they get growing and they respond very well!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/rm8-1.jpg

My Dwarf Chinkapin Oak acorns from NE did not sprout but a few of the native Iowa chinkapin acorns did finally come up, again...more then 2 months after planting!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/rm9-1.jpg

and some continue to emerge after all this time!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/rm10-1.jpg

My friend Rich collected some burr oak acorns from a very prolific tree on his farm and though they did take more then a month to emerge (also outside) they finally did and are growing well!

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e288/dbltree/Tree%20Planting/Rootmakers/Buroaks.jpg

Rich wondered "when to plant them"...

I like to let them grow as long as possible to develop large robust root systems that displace most of the soil in the cells. So his seedlings could be planted any time now but every week in the cell the root systems develop and are air root pruned...something that will affect their growth forever.

Knowing this I plant very late spring or keep the seedlings growing in the cells all summer and plant in the fall...so you have options. I have planted in mid summer during wet years however there could be high mortality if we have a late summer drought like last year.

Tube these seedlings, use herbicide to control weeds and they'll grow like crazy and be yielding acorns far before conventionally grown seedlings and all for pennies a piece.... :way:

[bryan]

Man this thread is awesome... Thanks for all the updates...

[JNRBRONC]

Last fall, a fellow IowaWhitetailer was kind enough to share some HUGE acorns he had picked up. I also collected a bunch of Swamp White Oak acorns from a windbreak we had planted some years ago. I put the acorns in potting soil and stored them in the fridge over the winter.

I ordered some BlueX direct seeding shelters, mainly because of the price; right at a dollar a piece. I figured that I would see what grew and go back and protect the best trees with wire cages later. I did not want to expend a lot of effort this spring.

I saw that the acorns were starting to sprout in the fridge, so I took advantage of the mild spring weather in March to get them planted. I took one of the HUGE acorns and planted it in the yard, figuring that way I could take better care of it and hopefully have a source of future acorns if none of the ones planted across the farm survived. I took some of the Swamp White acorns and put them in a 76 well tray, covered them with potting soil and had almost 100% germination. I planted them down on the creek bottom in tubes. They look better than the direct seeded, but it was more work.

I went for a walk today and saw that I had what I consider good success: 75-80% of the acorns are growing. This is a pic of the one in the yard, I went ahead and wire caged it since I had the cage on hand. Figured it would help protect it from me and the mower. :D
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/jnrbronc/DSCN2014.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/jnrbronc/DSCN2017.jpg

Ordered 100 of the BlueX shelters, that was enough for one spring. I'll order another hundred for next spring, collect some more Swamp Whites this fall. I plan on planting some of the Swamp Whites this fall in the tubes where the acorns did not sprout this spring.

The most common tree on the the farm at the moment is box elder. :mad: I hope to rectify that over the next couple of years. ;)

[dbltree]

Nice work Randy! Inexpensive way to get some oaks started and leave a legacy that will certainly be appreciated far more then...box elders...:way: