52 Cal Knight Muzzleloader

[OneCam]

Has anyone seen the new knight 52 caliber muzzloader? Its supposed to be the "hottest muzzleloader" on the market this year. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sniper.gif

[muddy]

Hmmmm, I havn't heard a thing on it. I'll have to do some snooping at Scheels now. =)

[moosehunter]

LET US KNOW WHAT YA FIND OUT MUDDY. I CAN'T IMAGINE ANYTHING MUCH BETTER THAN THE DISC http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rambo.gif

[muddy]

2 of 'em would be better, right? http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

[iaarcher]

The 52 cal has a totaly new ignition sys
that works with 150gr of loose 777. The specs that i have heard so far is that it will shoot a 375 gr bullet at 2000 fps and retain 2000 ft/lbs ke at 200 yds! http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bigshock.gif

[BW]

Is it time to reinvent the wheel again? http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[moosehunter]

Nothing against Knight but I think sometimes companies, in an effort to stay ahead of the competition introduce something new just to say they have something new. A 52 cal is fine and dandy but what's an extra .02 of an inch really gonna gain ya. The velocity and energy can't be all that much different than a .50. Can it? http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif Now you have to get bullet manufactures to make new bullets. Putting a .50 cal bullet in a sabot I guess will work but why all that for .02 again. I guess I just don't see any great advantage but maybe I'm missing something though. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wall.gif http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wall.gif http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wall.gif

[iaarcher]

I think that you are missing something.
I cant remember the exact numbers but these are verry close. Sighted in at 50 yards a .50 cal drops roughly 42" at 200 yards. The .52 cal when loaded to max drops about 14" at 200 yards. That in it self is an increadible advancement. The .52 was also credited wiht a kill on a austrailan water buffalo ( larger than the capes of africa ). When shot the buffalo dropped in its tracks and never moved, a task difficult with a high power.

[moosehunter]

you have my humble appoligies. i don't have all the spec's so was shootin' from the hip. what does the disc drop from 100 to 200 shooting a 250 gn sabot. mine is set for 100 and experience very little drop out to 200.

[iaarcher]

No appoliges needed. It's been a while since i talked to the guys at knight about this new rifle so i will have to check the numbers. From what they were saying it was roughly 1/4 the drop that they experinced with last years .50 cal disc extreme. This test may also have taken place at 250 yds and not 200 as previously stated.

[bowmaker]

This sounds like a lot of gun but I question whether we need a muzzle loader with 250 yard capabilities. I have a disc rifle and use it almost exclussively but I wonder where we start to draw a line. I think most of us would think it unwise to attempt 100 yard shots at deer with a bow even though there may be enough energy to do it. While a very select few might be able to do this it is, in my opinon, unresponsible to promote or market this capability. I think the same holds true with 250+ yard muzzle loader shots. I don't know anyone who could consistently make that long of a shot with bullet drop of 15" or more along with wind drift and all the variables in loading, but I know at least one who would try because the manufactor said it was ok. He would say it was my only chance so I took a poke rather than waiting for a better chance or another day.

Last thing, my disc rifle kicks like holy heck with 150 grains and a 300 grain bullet. What will this monster do with 375 or 390 grain bullets? I don't think I want to be on either end of that! My rifle with scope, sling, and loaded is almost 8 pounds and that is barley enought to absorb some recoil.:wall:

[moosehunter]

you know what bowmaker.....i have a lot of confidence in my ability to accuratly shoot my disc, even at 200 yds. But at that range the conditions have to be right. and i only got that confidence from shooting it a lot. let me tell a little story. i have a friend that guides for elk in utah and colorado. every year he see's more and more big "ultra" rifles. and most of these guys shooting them won't spot and stalk. they spot and shoot against the advise of my friend. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nono.gif he says it's not uncommon for some to take 400 yd shots. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif the bad part of all this is much of the time they end up wounding the animal. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/doah.gif these guys read in the hunting mags about the new wildcat loads that are accurate out to 12 miles and they gotta be the 1st one on the block to have one. then they get it to the range to sight it in and it kicks so bad they can't shoot it straight anyway cause they got the jumps so bad. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rambo.gif all that brings me to the point you make. where do you draw the line. i guess i drew it with the disc. i was tired of spending a bunch time scouting deer only to have my old smoke pole not go off. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cussing.gif others would say that inlines are past the line. all i know for sure is my disc is more than enough gun to bring down even the biggest of any whitetail.

[iaarcher]

I couldnt agree more about people taking shots longer than they are capable of making. It realy bothers me that people are so cavaler about wounding an animal just because " I didnt think he would git any closer ". But I dont think you can blame the advancement of technology for someones poor judgement.

[djhunter]

The only person that can tell you what to shoot, is you. Bigger, faster, longer and louder, does not make it better. Buy it if it sounds cool. Use it if you can shoot it straight. But don't hunt with it cause it sounds cool. Be safe, be smart and watch your background. Remember, if you flinch in practice, you'll jump when you hunt. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

[moosehunter]

words to hunt by boys........... http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif.............i could'nt agree with you more...... http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/applause.gif http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/applause.gif http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/applause.gif

[Shredder]

I thing you all coverd the bad points. My Encore shoots just fine and I refuse to take a shot over 125 yds despite my comfort level. As somebody noted above, sighting in at the bench and hunting are two very different circumstances. and most people don't perform well under buck fever......just me two cents

[Bowhunt]

I shoot the disc rifle, and after hunting with a bow all year a 100 yard shot seems like a ways sometimes. I practice alot out to 200 yards, but have not shot a deer over 140. The gun is only as good as the hunters whose hands it's in.

Buck fever for me goes like this. I see the buck, I get focused and make the shot. Then it hits me when I think that I have a good one down! I can barely get out of my treestand when they fall within sight, I get really excited at that point!!!

[iowabruce]

This morning I talked to a good friend of mine who is the general manager at Knight rifle. He explained that the new .52 muzzleloader has a different breech plug that actually ignites the powder charge from the front instead of the back. This creates some "good" things....One is less recoil compared to a standard 150 gr. loaded disc gun and the other is an extreme increase in velocity.
Guys I wish I could explain more but I didn't get to talk that long. He did say all of the testing on this rifle was extremely positive and that it is a pleasure to shoot. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

[bjkpharmd]

If it is the breach plug and ignition that is the great advance- I wonder how long until they develop a replacement system for the .50? That wouldn't sell as many new rifles though.

[Shovelbuck]

I can't figure out where the 42 inches of drop is. Direct from Hornadys Great Plains loading data sheet....A 460 grain solid pt. in 50 cal. drops 25.78 inches at 200 yds from a 50 yd. sight in of 2.58 inches high. This is with only 90 grains pyrodex.

[Earl E. November]

Interesting concept, but wroth with Questions.
1. Why isn't it on their website?
2. A large lusty lump of lead is great for bigger game such as elk, but probably not needed or even wanted for whitetail.
3. If it is a 52 Caliber, what bullet is it going to shoot, I am not aware of any 52 caliber bullets being manufactured, or Sabots that would allow you to use a true 50 Caliber bullet, and there are precious few of those available.
4. Sounds like it will be a package deal from Knight. Their gun, Their Bullet, Their Sabot?? http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bow.gif
I guess if I really wanted a 200 yard plus front stuffer, I would probably opt for Savage ML10, and a 200-250 grain bullet with a good BC, a good scope and Bi-pods.
But then Whitetails are pretty much a, "100 yards or less" hunting opportunity anyway.

[muddy]

just got back from our Scheel's Knight muzzleloader trainign meeting. Got to shoot this sweet gun quite a bit. Don't have any time to say much on it other than I really like the gun and hope to own one eventually. I'll post a picture of one of the sabots later, they're BIG!! http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

[muddy]

OK, here's what i retained from the shooting meeting, some of which has already been discussed in this topic.

The .52 does indeed ignite the powder from just behind the bullet which causes the pressure to be more constant and consistant at each shot. This technology came about in a VERY interesting way. This was the way the American howitzers shot shells at the Germans in WW2. This was classified information because by doing this they got higher velocities and more accuracy. They could also shoot over 1 mile FARTHER than the Germans howitzers that ignited powder the traditional way from the back of the chamber. Good for us, bad for them. There's your history lesson for the day. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif The reason you can't do this type of ignition system in a .50 is that the breech area where the powder would be, would be way too long and narrow therefore being very inefficient. The same concept goes for the .54 except the chamber would be too big. By messing around with several combinations they figured out that a .52 is the best way to go. I shot the .52 with 150 grains of powder and a 375 grain sabot and the accuracy was awesome. Granted that we could only shoot at about 60 yards or so because the range was very short but i witnessed one of our guys pick the gun up, shoot 3 times and have every bullet hole touching. The feet per second specs mentioned earlier are right on the money, as well as some other things. I just know that if I were to have one of the new .52 i wouldn't be shooting that much powder or a bullet that big. I'll try to post a pic of the sabot later, it's quite impressive. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif Any othe questions i'll try and answer them as best as i can. I'm tired and the wife and I are babysitting our little niece who is a month old and CRABBy!!!!!! http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wah[1].gif

[Waukon1]

Muddy, What is the effective shooting range compared to the 45 and 50? What is the projected selling price?

[teeroy]

i have the 2003 catalog in front of me.
a .50 caliber jacketed sabot, with 150 grains of pyrodex, sighted in at 100 yards, is .69 incehs high at 50 yards, and drops 11.39 at 200. i have no idea where the 42 inches of drop could have came from. even with 100 grains of pyrodex, the drop is nowhere near 42 inces with any bullet on the chart.
also there is no mention of the .52. it must be planned for 2004

[BW]

My Special Limited Edition Cabela's Catalog has them on page #582 for $530. Item # JD-21-5130

I thought everyone got one of these huge hardbound catalogs. It's got almost 1700 pages in it. Maybe I just spend too much money there. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[teeroy]

i have the press release from knight on the .52. you can only use loose tripple 7 powder. the .52 optimal bullet weight is 350-375 grains, with a bullet diameter of.458-.475inches. it boasts an 11% increase in velocity and a 32% increase in energy at 150 yards compared to .50 caliber magnum loads. velocity at the barrel with a .375 grain slug, is 1938ft/sec. at 200 yds, velocity is 1498 (170 less than a .50 using a .350grain) and has 1869 ft/lbs of energy. sighted in at 100 yards, it drops 10.57 inches at 200. a .50 with .350 garin bullet drops 12.97.
the breech plug looks to have a tube on the end of it, which would carry the spark to the front of the powder charge. helping in absorbing recoil is the XCoil recoil pad, which absorbs felt recoil 33% more effectively than the 2nd best recoil pad on the market today. it all seems prety neat, but not enough for me to switch from my disc extreme