View Full Version : Hornady SST = T/C Shockwave?
10-10-2003, 01:47 PM
Does anybody know if the Hornady SST 250 and the T/C Shockwave 250 are the same bullet? I believe Hornady has produced other bullets for T/C such as the XTP. I'm looking for something with a little better ballistic coefficent for longer range in the late season. Wally World has the Shockwave but no SST. Anybody tried either in an Encore?
Ive had good luck with the Barnes MZ 250 but they are twice the price. These dang inlines get awful expensive to practice with much, $2.00 a shot!? A guy could spend $50-$100 pretty fast trying to get an idea of what their gun will do at different ranges and powder levels.
A buddy of mine that has shot the Hornady's for some years bought some of the T/C bullets. They are Exactly the same (and shoot the same) the only difference is the color of the plastic tip. They have the same rifling in tip end as well. My buddy loves both. Is there a big difference in price??
10-10-2003, 03:56 PM
Timberpig. Try Cabelas X-Tended Range sabot. My inline likes the 250 grn alot. I think they also come in a conical.
10-11-2003, 12:52 AM
Rudd- I'm pretty sure that the Shockwave and SST are relatively new bullets so I dont know if they would be the same as the ones your buddy is shooting? He may be shooting the T/C PTX bullet which is slightly different (and probably also made by Hornady)? The price between the Shockwave and SST is small, however you do get 5 more bullets per box from Hornady. What I meant by cheaper was that they were both ALOT cheaper than the Barnes MZ which I had been shooting. Basicly I can get the Shockwave local ($9 for 15 rds) to see if they shoot well, and if they do I can order several boxes of Hornady's through a buddy (under $7 for 20 rds).
I was told by two people on another site that the SST and Shockwave were the same bullet, which seems very likely.
Moosehunter- I did try the 240gr bullet made by Precision Bullets for Knight. I think PB makes the X-tended range for Cabelas? Anyway, I tried 2 T7 pellets and 3 pyrodex pellets and both yielded about 3 1/2" groups. Good enough at 100 yards but not enough to generate alot of confidence for longer shooting. Would be nice to be able to get them local w/o having to order them also.
About the best groups I got were around 2" with the plain old T/C XTP in 250gr. I can live with 2" but with a BC of about .140 they would have to be shedding alot of velocity and energy at 150-175 yards.
What kind of groups do you guys consider exceptable at 100 yards, and how far do you think you could stretch your range with those groups?
10-11-2003, 05:18 PM
Timberpig. Your doing the right thing as far as I'm concerned. I don't know how mant different sabots I tried before settling in with these. None of them shot bad at 100 yards, these just were dead nuts on at 200 also. Make sure you swab the barrel out between each shot for a good comparison. Don't ya just love them stuffers............ http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/peace.gif
Earl E. November
10-11-2003, 10:44 PM
This guy has been doing a lot of testing of the new Hornady SST http://www.hpmuzzleloading.com/Index~ns4.html it looks pretty good. The T/C looks very much like it. Probably the same bullet, but I didn't know they where "Rifled" in the end???
10-13-2003, 10:27 PM
Thanks for the help fellas. I picked up some of the Shockwaves and they look pretty good. Havent had a chance to shoot them yet though.
Thats a pretty good site Buckhusker, found that one the other day and is partly where I got the idea for these bullets. As far as them being "rifled" on the end, I dont see it. There are six grooves in the nose which I would assume are to aid in expansion.
Now I need a calm day to get to the 200 yard range. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/2guns.gif
Good luck this year boys.
10-18-2003, 10:23 PM
Just an update in case anyone was wondering how these bullets perfom.
I went out today and shot a box of T/C Shockwaves at 100, 150, and 200 yards.
100 yards = 2 1/2" 3 shot groups
150 yards = 1 1/2" 3 shot group
200 yards = 3" 4 shot group (actually 3 of them hit within 1 1/2"!)
Not sure why my 150 and 200yd groups were better than my 100, but I ain't compaining! It was really nice to put four rounds into a group the size of a tennis ball at 200yds with a ML. Some of my centerfires have trouble doing that, really builds your confidence. I should also mention that I pulled the breech plug and completely cleaned the barrel between EVERY shot. It was a pain but seemed to help.
Sighted about 3/4" high at 100yds put it around 1 1/2" low at 150yds and 5" low at 200yds. Don't know velocities (chrony wasn't working) but based on past use of a chronograph with this gun I'd say those mothers were hauling! Maybe 2,200-2,300fps.
Shooting a T/C Encore, 2x7 Leupold, 3 Triple 7 pellets.
I was pretty pumped about these bullets as they performed better at 150 and 200 than many others I tried at 100. I've yet to shoot a deer with a ML past 50 yards but I've always hunted early ML season. This year I'm going late ML and I can really see where the added range could pay off big then. I hope these bullets perform well on deer, because for the price and accuracy I can't beat them.
10-19-2003, 10:49 AM
I have a couple questions for you.
1st, What grain bullet are you shooting?
2nd, How do you like the tripple 7 pellets?
I have an Encore ML also. I have bought 240 gr. hp bullets, but am thinking of switching to 300 gr. and saving the 240s for the .44 mag. I am also shooting the pyrodex pellets, and am wondering what the diff. is between the two.
one more question. Are you using 100gr. or 150 gr. of powder. Sorry about all the questions. The Encore is the first ML I have shot, and I am not sure where to begin
10-19-2003, 11:33 PM
Iabowhunter, I just typed a fat post for you and lost it, hate when that happens! Here is the shortened version. I'm no muzzeloading guru, just posting what works for me.
The Shockwaves I was shooting are 250gr.
I was shooting 3 T7 pellets which is supposed to be the equivelant of 150gr of pyrodex. Depending on who you talk to you arent supposed to exceed 100 gr of T7. However, 3 T7 pellets shoots the same for me as 3 pyrodex pellets. Also, T7 pellets are smaller than pyrodex pellets, to make up for T7 being a hotter powder. I had no troubles at all with the 3 T7 pellets, other than it does kick a bit! Type in hpmuzzleloading.com for some good info on T7, specificly shooting 150gr out of an Omega. He explains it better than I can.
I like the T7 because it doesnt have the nasty rotten egg smell of Pyrodex and it cleans up alot easier, plain water works well. My only complaint with T7 is the famous "Triple 7 Crud Ring" that forms in the barrel where the powder sits, just forward of the breech plug. If you dont clean frequently this crud ring will make it very difficult to seat the next bullet properly. I'v started cleaning after every shot for the best accuracy anyway.
Couple more tips. Take the primer extractor out and leave it out if you havent done so already. You dont need it and it makes range cleaning much faster. Also take a 7/16 socket and driver with you, also speeds up cleaning at the range, much better than that wrench contraption T/C includes with the gun.
Good luck with your Encore, I love mine so far. If you have any other Q's I'll try to help you out, but there are plenty of people who know alot more about ML's than me.
10-25-2003, 03:45 PM
My gun is sighted in with the shockwaves,gave good groups but not as good as the prbullets.
At a distance of say 125 yards a jacketed bullet may not open up the way it sould,a alead bullet will.
The pr bullets are also 40cal for 50s,that means a flater shooter.
Ive shot the qts in my knight with just a little better accuracy than the shockwaves,im going to try the dead centers this weekend.They are said to be better yet.
To get good groups you may have to use loose powder and work up a load.
The pr bullets can now be bought at Scheels in Iowa city or Fin an Feather.
Scheels has the plinkers for $6 for 20 you can use for a fairly close sight in.
Earl E. November
10-25-2003, 09:34 PM
Bucknife.. A 40 cal bullet out of a 50 cal rifle makes for a very heavy sabot. Normally speaking the thinner the sabot pedal the more accurate it will be.
Small caliber doesn't mean flatter shooting. Higher BC,means flatter. BC is Ballistic Coefficent which is a product of weight to length and an allowance for drag. Smaller diameter bullet will get a similar BC at a lighter weight, which can mean higher velocity. That will definetly make it flatter shooting, but with less energy. The Shock Waves with three pellets will shoot 3" groups and drop less than 5" at 200 yards, with a 50-75 yard zero. That is definetly "Minute of Bambi" in my book, and with either 2 or 3 pellets (100-150gr) I really doubt that the Shock Wave will have any trouble opening up.
10-26-2003, 08:57 AM
The shockwave 250gr in 50cal has a bc around 250,the dead center 240gr in 40/50 has a bc of 348.
The sst has already shown jacket seperation in some recovered bullets.
The shockwaves when weighed will run as much as a 2gr difference,the dead centers are within .2gr
200 yards would be a long ways for a muzzle loader bullet,the sst will loose much more energy than the dc,and it has a jacket around it.
In my opinion a 200 yard shot sould not be attemped with a muzzle loader,theres too much that can go wrong,a stiff breeze,shooting off hand.
I still think the best load is the most accurate load,and i have yet to find it by burning excessive amounts of powder.
10-26-2003, 05:34 PM
Well as sweet as the dead centers sound i could not get them to group worth a darn in my gun today.
Buckhusker i think you may be right,the sabots were popen their pedals off,some had 1 missing,some 2,and some all 3.
I couldnt even get the qts to group very well,they did in the heat of the summer shooten,but not today,same as the dc,broken petals. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
Well i was about to pull my hair out at this point,so i decided to shoot the shockwaves.Most groupsa averaged a 1 1/2 inches at 100 yards and a few groups were sub inch.This is with 80gr of 777.
At 85gr they started to open up,kept getting worse the more powder i tried.
At 125gr the group of 3 were 10 inches at 100.
The 22 inch barrel on my gun just will not handle the heavyer charges,it seems.
80gr seems to be the most accurate even with the xtps.
I did acomplish some thing today besides this,found out a 360 TC maxi hunter conical will shoot accurate out of the lyman with a 1in 60 twist.
115gr of 777 and it shoots a group of 1 hole at 50 yards.Ert to have more umph than a round ball.
Just might have to give the conicals a try in the knight some time. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Earl E. November
10-26-2003, 06:28 PM
Pedals breaking and heavy pedals are two different things. The 40 cal bullet in a 50 cal gun, makes for a pretty thick pedal. This "may" cause the bullet to rotate off center. A 40 cal bullet out of a 45 will almost always be more accurate than out of a 50, and way better than if shot out of a 54. More plastic, is not necessarily a good thing.
Next, Plastic is very temperature sensetive, what works good at 50-70 F degrees may be a total disaster, at 90 or 32. It either gets soft from the heat and almost liquifies, and does not seal, or as you have said in cold weather they want to break of shatter.
I agree, burning excessive powder does not necessarily make a better bullet. It will to a point make it shoot faster, flatter and hit home with more energy. Typically most muzzleloaders I have seen will shoot best in the 80-120 gr area. All of these bullets will shoot better out of a gun with a faster twist 1:28, 1:32 etc. If you are shooting a sidelock and a 1:48 you really need to stay with a lead conical. As to the SST seperating, this is the first I have heard of it. All reports I have seen, the bullet has perform perfectly.
But then I guess if it seperated completely, you'd still have what you shot out of the gun with the "Dead Center."
Earl E. November
10-26-2003, 06:38 PM
200 yard muzzleloader? I don't know but read this. http://www.collect.com/interest/article.asp?t=krause&Pub=DH&id=8839
10-26-2003, 07:12 PM
Buckhusker Toby shoots a savage with smokless powder,legal here now yes,in a few years down the road who knows.
The savage will send a bullet a hellin with the smokeless,and a jacketed bullet may be better at that speed.At blackpowder speeds a jacket will keep the bullet from opening like it sould,unless your shooten 150 gr of pills,which in my opinion aint much like a muzzle loader.
I got my inline for shotgun season,in muzzle loader season i will use the sidelock shooting roundballs and conicals.
200 yards aint nuthin,they were shooting 1,000 yards years ago with conicals and blackpowcder,you just had to aim at the noon sun to get the bullet there http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
The dead centers have a high bc,just a sucky sabot,maybe a duplex sabot of 40cal in a 45 cal would be a better set up. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Anyway im done shooten for now,time to start thinken bow hunten again.
Earl E. November
10-26-2003, 07:57 PM
I like bows. They are my first love, as long as they don't have wheels. (but they are ok too)
I do want to try and take a whitetail at somewhat extended range this year with an SST. Here in Nebraska the smokless is legal, but scopes aren't. I'll be shooting and Omega with a peep, and 777. Probably 150 max. the equipment will do it, if I can. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beerchug.gif
10-27-2003, 03:23 PM
Buckhusker good luck on your smoke pole hunt and everyone else also. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/893USA3-thumb.gif
10-30-2003, 08:15 PM
I got my SST's in the mail today. I ordered some 250 gr. and they sent me the 300gr. bullets. SO I guess I will try the 300 grainers fist. Now I just have to find some triple 7 pellets, and some time. I mhope to have some results soon http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif
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