Osage Orange trees

[TimberPig]

I have a couple questions about Osage Orange trees (aka hedge apple). I have a bunch of these trees growing in my timber and I dont care much for them. Very thorny, prolific, and hard to kill.

Are they of any wildlife value? Only thing I've ever seen eat the hedge balls is the occasional squirrel.

I was thinking of trying to kill as many of them as I can, but there are probably hundreds of them. Killing a bunch might at least keep them from overtaking the timber. They are just growing randomly in the timber, not in a solid stand. I have considered the following ways of killing them:
1. Drilling a small hole with a cordless drill and injecting the tree with a stout mix of brush killer such as Tordon. Then just leave them stand as they are. This would be the easiest/fastest but would it work?
2. Hinging the tree to make a living brushpile, doubt the tree would ever die though and may still spread.
3. Cutting them down and just leaving them lay where they fall. Stump would probably have to be treated to prevent re-growth. Osage trees are just to unfriendly to try to remove all the cut trees. Given their resistance to rot they would probably lay there for 50 years and look like new.

Any recommendations for chemicals to kill the stumps? Tordon? (I've never used it)

I cleared 7 acres of scrubby pasture 2 years ago with a bulldozer and then disked the ground, then replanted it as a riparian buffer. Tore out all the roots I could find. I mow this 3-4 times a year and yet the Osage trees resprout continually. They start looking like a bush and actually out grow the weeds. I tried spraying the sprouts with a heavy dose of round-up. That made the sprouts die back, and new sprouts just replaced those. I really hate them, they are like the Terminator of trees!

[5465]

i'll shoot you a pm, timberpig!!!

[Old Buck]

timberpig,

Very interesting thread. The best answer to your questions is to check with your district forester. He will either have the answers or have access to them.

I have used Tordon RTU on many kinds of trees. As long as the tree takes it in it works. In fact if you apply too much it seems to kill everything for several feet around the stump. The time it works the least is when sap is flowing up. The time it works the best is when the plant is moving things down the trunk.

On my place one of my goals is to provide a number of areas where the protective cover is as thick as possible. Osage orange or hedge is a great plant for accomplishing that. Hinging would probably provide the best long lasting and lowest cover. It would be a great place for a covey of quail or big old buck to hide. As you point out even a cut off top will last for years.

I put hedge in the same group as red cedar and shingle oak in terms of great cover potential but it sounds like you have too many.

Do you have any digitals of your cover you could post? I'd like to see what you are describing.

Old Buck

[TimberPig]

Old Buck-
This might be a dumb question, but how do I know whether sap is flowing up or down to the roots? I'm guessing up in spring, down in summer/fall?
Applying stump killer might be a problem with Osage as they tend to pump out a milky sap when cut, which might wash away the chemical to some extent? Do you think injecting the tree would work? Wouldnt hurt to try I suppose.

I dont really have any digitals of the cover. Basically I have about 30 acres of fairly average timber, mostly oaks, elm, hackberry, and hickory, and MF Rose of course. Its very thick in places, fairly open in others. As for Osage I dont know how many there are, but I doubt you could stand in any one spot in the timber and not be able to point out atleast 5 or more Osage trees close by. They are just spread out randomly. Most are under 4 inches across the trunk, but there are quite a few in the 6"-8" range. They are somewhat out of the ordinary around here, mostly found in timbers which have had cattle in them in the past. I'm told the cattle spread them by eating the hedge balls, where ever they crap - Poof- another Osage.

What I dont want them doing is slowly overtaking the timber, pushing out more desirable trees. I could never get them all without a total war, but I could probably set them back a decade with a couple afternoons of work.

I'm thinking that the best plan would be to kill the small trees completely, and hinge the larger trees to allow them to provide cover. I dont allow drives there and really try to minimize gun pressure so as to give the deer a sanctuary during the shotgun season. The thicker the cover, the easier it would be to accomplish this.

[kbgibby]

Timber,

I've been thinking about building bows. Any chance of snagging a few sections to split out some billets? Send me a pm.

[Danno]

The osage orange trees. We called them hedge trees were planted in the 20s and 30 as windbreaks for conservation purposes where I grew up. They make great quail cover and travel corridors for deer. Many of them were cleared out in the 70s and 80s to allow farming to or through the fence. Hedge makes great fence posts too. I put in miles of fence using them in my youth. I did have calf choke and die on a "hedgeball" one time. Oh, one additional bit of trivia--place them around your basement and they will control crickets. But back to your original question, it appears to me that quail numbers are down in Southeast Iowa and Western Illinois from 10 or 20 years ago. I think clearing of the hedgerows are part of the reason.
I've been systematically trying to get rid of thorny locust trees on my place in central Iowa for the same reasons you described. Try diesel fuel and salt on the stump.

[Old Buck]

Timberpig,

I think that is the pattern but I'd check with a district forester first. You can tell by watching what happens when you cut a trunk.

You are correct in that how you manage your forest now will impact it long past our life time. I just talked at lenght with the DNR Forestry supervisor. He said in Iowa we are loosing 7% of our oak every year and this has been going on since 1954. If we don't change management practices there will be few acorns for the wildlife of the future to eat.

When I grab a chain saw the changes I make will have a long lasting impact so I like to really know what I'm doing before I start. That is why I keep recommending talking to your forester. It is a free service. Just tell him what your goals are and he can teach you how to get there.

Old Buck

[Old Buck]

Great info on the history of hedge. I think you are correct about the impact on quail and other wildlife also.

You'll know I'm nuts when I tell you I also save honey locust trees. I've watched deer stop and eat the pods when they are standing within feet of a corn field. I'm trying to maximize the cover and food on my place and honey locust seems to fit the bill. Of course then there are the flat tires and a thorn in the knee is a new kind of pain you won't forget for awhile. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Old Buck

[Danno]

Old Buck
You are right about the locust pods. The deer flocked to them after the last big snow. I noticed they also came back to the alfalfa, digging big holes. I have locust trees on the edge of my yard so I patch the lawnmower tires almost every time I mow. I agree with your comments, I'm just managing this 20 acre pastures for cows more than deer for the time being.

[TimberPig]

Danno- I am a little familiar with the osage trees, and I can see why they would make great fence posts. That is some tough wood. I remember when I was younger that the folks had tried putting the hedge balls in the basement for insects, dont know if it really works very well though. My neighbor stopped by two years ago wanting to collect them. He said he took them to a grocery store up north somewhere and sold them, who then resold them to customers for insect control. He must not have made a fortune, as he didnt come back for more last year.

The Osage trees arent really that big of a deal, they just arent a very pleasant tree to have around. I built my home here and I dont want to look out the window in 30 years at nothing but Osage.
I dont have any honeylocust trees, but I dont really mind those. Deer love them as you said, and atleast they look native. Osage trees look like something from the Orient, they look out of place to me.

Old Buck- I think I'll take your advice on checking with the forester, thats what they are there for after all.

I also sent an email to a rep from Dow-Ag about Tordon, so if I find out anything interesting there, I'll let you know.

Threebeards- I'll send you a PM. You can come and take them all if you want!


Thanks for everyones help.......

[Old Buck]

TimberPig,

Thanks. I'm always looking for an opportunity to learn more.

Old Buck

[muddy]

I'll throw a new twist on Osage Orange tree usage. IF they are reasonably straight you might want to try and contact someone who carves their own longbows. Osage Orange is VERY popular from what I've read on bowmaking. Not saying you'll get much use or $$$ from a bowmaker looking to grab a few staves but you might get your own homemade longbow to hang on the wall. I'll try and find some time this evening and do some google searching on the subject and maybe put you in touch with a guy or two.

Any traditional guys help out here?

[MRH]

Try to get a hold of some of the ITBS guys (Iowa Traditional Bowhunters Society) I know they have a web site, and they are always carving out longbows out of Osage orange. I have seen staves for around $50.00 so that might even earn you a couple bucks.

[Big Timber]

Muddy,
Just trying to make a dollar....

BT http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[muddy]

Following your example Mr Sales Engineer. http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/waytogo.gif

[Rudd]

actually Muddy you robbed poor threebeards thunder.....he posed the question early in the post.

[muddy]

My bad threebeards, hope you can forgive me. That's what I get for skimming.

[kbgibby]

Hey Muddy,

No problem! I exchanged a couple of emails with TimberPig and gave him the link:

http://osageorange.com

They're located here in Iowa and the site actually has quite a bit of information about the wood and building bows. You can also buy staves from them.

I've often thought about building a bow, either a self-bow from osage or from a kit from Bingham Projects Inc. Someday ... http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[bowmaker]

Three Beards
Stop thinking about it and do it. It's not as hard as you might think, but two warnings. Don't try osage for your first bow as it can be very difficult to work with. Try white ash or hickory first. Second don't plan on stopping at one bow. After the first one the next 100 go pretty quick, and then you are really hooked.

Timberpig
If you really want to get rid of the hedge if there are any Amish in your area I bet they woould contract to cut them for posts and other things.

[Rudd]

Thread Highjack-I know there is a self bow building 2 day course around the CR area. If my memory serves me correctly it is taught by one of the founding members of the IBA.....

[muddy]

ITBS (http://www.iowatbs.com/)

gotcha covered Rudd... snoop around in there, when I contacted them last year I had to directly email the pres of the society and he sent me the info.

[muddy]

and another from the area...think this is the guy i contacted. doesn't look like he has anything set up for '05 though.

winterbowshoppe (http://winterbowshoppe.com/selfbow.htm)

[Rudd]

NIce Work Mud.....that's it.

[muddy]

[ QUOTE ]
NIce Work Mud.....that's it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Once in a GREAT while I shine through and show my potential worth, now I will slip back to my mediocrity.

[TimberPig]

Wow, lots of people looking for osage. Unfortunately, it looks like the bowmakers are looking for trees up to 12 inches in diameter and 6 foot straight limbless sections. I'm not sure they know what Osage is http://www.iowawhitetail.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif. I cant think of any on my ground like that. I'll look closer though when the time comes. All my osage must be fairly young and are pretty twisted. I might try making a nice walking stick before I venture into bowmaking...

After reading osageorange.com, about all the uses and history, I almost decided to let them be. But that faded, I still want to thin em out. Tomorrow night I can check my other email at work and see if I recieved any info from the Tordon rep at Dow-Ag. I was at the local NRCS office the other day about some CRP and asked them about osage, like Old Buck, they said, call the forester. I sent Robert Hibbs of the DNR an email, since I never remember to call when I have time.

Poor Osage, the carp of trees.

[Bobcat]

TPIG, don't know if you burn firewood, but osage is excellent for the stove. I never pass one up when cutting wood unless I think I can get a stave out of it! Same goes for mullberry as far as good firewood. Also on the mullberry I've seen the deer flock to them when the leaves are turning yellow and dropping off. They really suck them up just like the locust pods.

[Danno]

OK, Here's a OO story. My brother in law decided to pit roast a hog a few years back. The only wood they had was some hedge (osage orange) that had been cut for firewood. They dug the pit, started the fire, lowered the hog and covered it with tin. Later they recovered what was left-a shoulder blade.

[TimberPig]

Don't burn firewood but I have heard it burns like coal.

I recieved a response today from Jane Hanson, a pasture and range specialist with Dow AgroScience. She recommended a chemical called Remedy and stated it had more activity on Osage than Tordon. Mrs. Hanson said to mix 1 part Remedy with 3 parts diesel fuel (or some kind of oil carrier). She said to apply this mix to the bottom 15" of the trunk, all the way around, as if you were painting it. Then let the tree stand for about a year to allow it to fully kill the roots. She said it was unnecesary to score the bark in any way, and it can be used the same way to treat stumps covering all of the exposed surface.

Mrs. Hanson also stated Remedy herbicide has no soil residual, and it will not harm neighboring trees you want to keep.

Really this sounds perfect. Quick and easy. Wouldnt even have to thin the timber by cutting the trees, but would stop growth and further seeding.
The only drawback I can see, other than unknown cost, is that I'm not crazy about spreading stinky diesel fuel all over the timber I deer hunt, but if done in the spring I suppose it wouldnt hurt.

Have not recieved a response from Robert Hibbs, DNR forrester.

Thanks to NW IA Scrapper Buck for PM'ing me the link to Mrs. Hanson.
Maybe this info will help you guys out too. Anyone used Remedy before or have an idea of cost?

[JNRBRONC]

Wonder if the Remedy/diesel could be applied with a sprayer. I'd try it as it would be much easier than painting.

[tracker]

If you have any Amish in the area they could possibly come out and buy the trees off of you. They will come out and cut them down and clean up. They use the trees for fencing and other misc. wood projects.

[horkeymike]

TimberPig I think Remedy is going to run you around $95-110 a gallon depending on where you buy it.

[kevpann]

Hey guys been reading about your tree problem. I work for a rural electric power co. and we cut trees all winter long. A few years ago we got a spray that you just spray all the way around the base of the tree and it kills it. It is suppose to be safe for animals and not run off to bad. We just love it, has saved us alot of time and sweat. It's called garlon 4. Hope I was able to help you out. If you can't find any I think most of the rec's in Iowa are using it.

[180bc]

Just scanning through, I didnt notice if anyone mentioned it but squirrel and deer eat these things. Squirrel love em, and deer will flock to them when they are hungry. I have seen it many, many times in Kansas. It may be less frequent in Iowa where other prefered food sources are so plentiful. Deer on the open prairie are not too picky.