gunhunter
PMA Member
I seriously hope this is a joke? We feed tons of mineral to cattle. Helps genetics better express themselves along with better breed back on dozens of other benefits
mineral question
- Thread starter Thinkin Rut
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I seriously hope this is a joke? We feed tons of mineral to cattle. Helps genetics better express themselves along with better breed back on dozens of other benefits
Fishbonker
Life Member
Mineral is a vey important part of livestock feeding. Livestock can only eat what they are fed or allowed to graze. Wildlife? I would say the same thing but deer have a way of browsing on what is in front of them and the ability to jump fences to get to what ever they can get to.
I don't think we should compare wildlife heath to livestock health.
I don't think we should compare wildlife heath to livestock health.
sureshot
The Hunt Never Ends....
Question- do you think wildlife that have access to unlimited food all year, for instance, food plots all winter long, are healthier than wildlife that are not?
Fishbonker
Life Member
With or without minerals? Wildlife and minerals, no. Wildlife and food plots yes.
It is my opinion that a mineral pile will not make a difference in overall deer herd health. It is my opinion that mineral piles will eventually be a detriment to overall herd health. It is my opinion that food plots in a hard winter scenario will help more deer survive, particularly the bucks that are run down from the rut. It is my opinion in a year such as we are having now, food plots will not make an over all difference in herd health. There is plenty of food available, in my area, winter kill will be almost nonexistent this year and fawn recruitment (live births) will not be effected. BUT we plant food plots in the summer to insure herd health gambling on a worst case scenario winter.
sureshot
The Hunt Never Ends....
Thank you for giving me your opinion. I will give you a different opinion, but at the end of the day, it's just one of many and I realize that. I fully believe that mineral benefits herd health. You disagree, great. I don't think you are right.
Now that we are on the topic, please tell me why you think mineral piles will 'eventually' lead to a detriment to overall herd health? I would really be interested in hearing your expert opinion on this. I believe that you already understand that deer are very social animals. Let's take for instance, the breeding season (breeding, scraping, rubbing, fighting), does giving birth, bachelor bucks who are with each other all summer, etc.
You have the flu.....I spend all weekend with you, in the same house. I don't eat out of the same bowl as you, or off of the same fork. Would it be a fair assessment to state that I'm either going to get the flu or I'm not (that I have came into contact with the flu bug)? I think so. End of story. Show me proof of your above claims and I will tell you I'm wrong, otherwise, you are doing nothing but typing ignorant statements. Just my opinion.
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hoosierhunter
Active Member
I think minerals probably have minimal effectiveness in the corn belt region. Once you stray into less productive soil areas the minerals have a slightly higher impact. The nutrients are already there in states such as Iowa and Indiana. I think mineral sites and especially food plots have a much greater impact when it comes to reducing stress on the animals over the course of the year.
Fishbonker
Life Member
First of all, thank you for thinking I'm an expert. I am not. I, like you, have opinions based or reading, past experiences, and our own logic. In other words, we are products of the past and we try to control the future based on our past experiences.
What are your claims? That disease will get passed on in an environment no matter what? Or is it even though exposed, some people will not get the flu?
Below is what I posted in the Legislative forum. It is a copy and paste because I have to get to the IBA Annual Meeting so we can continue to Promote, Protect and Defend wildlife in Iowa.
I sure wish I could point to a study that says mineral sites potentiate the spread of CWD, but I can't. I also can't point to a study that says they don't.
How many prions get passed from deer to deer by grooming, making scrapes, licking branches or any of the natural activities of deer? I don't know. How many prions are concentrated in a mineral pile that gets used over and over and over? I can't tell you that either. I've never seen a scrape that was more than an inch deep but I've seen plenty of mineral piles that end up several inches deep which means it would, anecdotally, contain more prions.
Again, anecdotally speaking, you haven't seen CWD spread from your mineral piles or mineral put out for cattle because luckily you don't have CWD in your area.
When CWD was found in Allamakee County I thought for sure the DNR would ban feeding/mineral piles in the immediate area. They didn't because the DNR is not in charge. When every other state that has confirmed cases of CWD banned feeding/mineral piles what does that mean? It means the preponderance of evidence shows that CWD can and is spread through feeding/mineral piles. It also means, to me, that other states are making decisions based on biology not politics.
I'm reminded of the old country docs who treated their patients empirically, based on experience and reason not a bunch of tests for this or tests for that. They had the experience and reason to tell them what to do. Perhaps we are using the wrong word. Perhaps empirical would be better suited than anecdotal.
I have long been a proponent of black and white when it comes to banning baiting. Not only for enforcement but for disease control. I can only hope that we aren't so short sighted that we continue to allow mineral piles and the spread of disease at the cost of our grandchildren's hunting.
I will add, that this is my personal opinion, not necessarily that of the IBA.
Oct-Lull
Well-Known Member
I know for a fact our we see a rise in the spread of several health issues in our cows during warm wet periods. They go out on pasture and stand together and make a mud hole and lean on each other. Nothing like a hot wet environment to breed sickness in cattle. Also, doing a little math..... I put out a few trophy rocks and some heifer mineral each year. Not alot, just enough. I was always thought, especially with free choice that the animals will only ingest as much mineral as they need. We feed ours then generally have a free choice option for those that need more. We feed 10,000# or so to our breeding age stock a year. So in order to match that #for # of body weight I would need to put out 3000-3500# a year for a 100 deer herd that averages a weight of 150#. That would leave me with giant piles laying around seeping into the ground. No way they would eat that. We feed ours thru a tmr and if we didn't our cows wouldn't either. I know of guys that put out 100's of # every few weeks for deer. Seems nuts to me. Long story short, say its a 25% chance it will be spread. I can think of plenty of things I wouldn't risk to a 25% fail rate. One for sure is the future of one of my favorite pastimes. Over 2% antler bump? O couple thousand doe/fawn pics? Not like those big bucks or any buck is showing up for his daily mineral dose. Oh right and if everyone is honest, this like everything else is driven by bucks, overall heard health fits in but bucks are why 98% do what they do in the woods. Me included.
Oct-Lull
Well-Known Member
http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2015/...very-about-spread-of-chronic-wasting-disease/
Interesting findings here. Makes it sound like we are in trouble if it is really true.
Interesting findings here. Makes it sound like we are in trouble if it is really true.
loneranger
Well-Known Member
Glad I am as old as I am. So many things out there that can get-ya. Every healthy day is a gift. Glad I am headed for a disease free place!
Thinkin Rut
PMA Member
The fair assessment would be, if you ate from the same bowl and off the same fork your chances would go up dramatically that you get the flu.
HorseDoctor
PMA Member
Not necessarily. Last I heard from the medical community was that if you live in the same house, work in the same office, ride in the same car (bus, airplane etc..) as someone with a cold/flu, you will be "exposed" to the virus. Whether or not you develop the disease is between you & your immune system. Pretty much same holds true with most animal diseases.
Thinkin Rut
PMA Member
great...no need to wash my hands after the restroom now.
Thinkin Rut
PMA Member
One thing is for certain, mineral stations and food plots don't create disease. The disease needs to be present before spreading. IMO the DNR needs to concentrate their efforts to where the disease is present. If they have it in Allamakee Co., ban minerals in Allamakee and bordering counties. Put absolute distances for hunting near them in the law for others.
Booner
Well-Known Member
You act like you're a vet or something and actually know what your talking about........
KnuckleDragr
Active Member
Very good point. I would be willing to bet that if disease were present, and no mineral or feed was used anywhere; the disease would still find a way to spread.
bkcrrtnps
Well-Known Member
But aren't these enclosed spaces? Mineral sites and water holes bring them much closer together, and allow for easier access for transmission
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