Buck Hollow Sporting Goods - click or touch to visit their website Midwest Habitat Company

Auto companies bailout

Shovelbuck

Shovelbuck

Active Member
I just don't get what the auto makers are thinking. How is giving them money going to solve low sales. At best, if our tax dollars go to help them, all it will be is a band aid to prolong the inevitable for a little longer. Car sales is what they need.
Maybe this is too simple but I feel if were going to help them, let's try the following.
Give every American one car family that earns less than 75,000 per year a voucher for a new American made vehicle of their choice up to 40,000 dollars. And two car families, vouchers for two vehicles for a combined total of 70,000 dollars.
Talk about an economic stimulus! Hard working Americans get new dependable vehicles, automakers get huge sales volumes, tax roles increase due to sales taxes etc.
Seems like it would work.
 
If you are feeling sorry for the big three automakers you need to watch this video http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=...he+electric+car

If you don't want to watch a documentary about an electric car that was totally functional just a few years ago then that's fine. Just know that we are all being screwed and the technology has been available for years but they decided to pull the plug on what was going to change all of our lives. It's obvious that big oil had a hand in helping GM put thousands of totally functional cars to sleep. It would of cost them billions & billions of dollars!!!

So google who killed the electric car or EV-1 and tell me if the auto makers deserve to be bailed out.
 
I have to say that the automakers failing would really rock things economically...but when the government starts bailing out business(es), where does that logically stop? What does the bailout provide for? In other words, who is to say that the bailout is enough or would work, etc?

Government can only bail other businesses out with OUR money, so who says that the goverment is going to come close to getting that right? Are all automakers in trouble or just the ones that have outdated processes and modes of operation?

I could go on and on, but this is a super slippery slope and our country has come this far under a mostly free market/capitalisitic approach. Government bailouts are very dangerous IMO and could lead directly to a whole different form of government...socialism. That would be worse than any failed automaker.
 
My last day at work was October 31st. I am laid off because my position was eliminated. I work in the fishing industry and it is really hurting right now. Most boat companies are working 2-3 days a week. Lund just laid off 140 employees with no hope of returning. Several large boat dealerships have closed this fall. The company I work(ed) for is a smallish tackle company that has two dozen employees and it's in trouble or they wouldn't lay off the director of marketing and promotions.

I am going to miss my next mortgage payment. Where's my bailout?
 
IMO a big part of the auto industry problem is the crazy pay they give the UAW employees. Most people in Iowa make somewhere between $30-40/hr including benies. The UAW pays an average of over $70 plus benies, and they stood up today and said they were not willing to take a cut to help save their employers but want the government to. I say let them sink or swim on their own, if they fail they will be back without the union in 2-3 wks.
 
There's prolly several reason's why the big 3 are not doing to well. This didn't happen in the last 6 or 12 month's. They've been steadily loosing loyal customers to Honda, Toyota and others for years. Mostly because the competition just builds a better quality car. The big 3 need to step up to the plate instead of begging for money. Unfortunatly, our spineless elected leaders will probably give them what they want.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Musky Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">IMO a big part of the auto industry problem is the crazy pay they give the UAW employees. Most people in Iowa make somewhere between $30-40/hr including benies. The UAW pays an average of over $70 plus benies, and they stood up today and said they were not willing to take a cut to help save their employers but want the government to. I say let them sink or swim on their own, if they fail they will be back without the union in 2-3 wks. </div></div>I agree. I think the goverment will come in after GM closes the doors and will reorganize. I was in the automotive business 20+ years, and the bad thing is the trickle down effect it will have. How many of you know someone that works for a dealership or one of the many companies in Iowa that manufacture something for the automotive industries? I know quite a few and that is just in Iowa. My brother lives in Springfield Mo., and has been a painter in dealerships for many years and just left his job to work for the city because of all the layoff's. The wage and benies of the UAW add $1600.00 to the price of each car.
 
I don't like to see the Government bail out the auto industry any more than the next guy and I think you're right saying the big problem is the UAW but how many of you have a GM (only because they're closer to going bankrupt then the other two) product that's still under factory warranty?? That's one of the things you paid for when you spent your hard earned dollars. The production line stops when they're bankrupt. If you have a rust issue on your box side of your Silverado, it's on you, GM won't be around to take care of it.
Think of the jobless rate if the big 3 go bankrupt. Not only the employees of the big 3, but all the suppliers for the parts that go in to the vehicles.
How many people have helped the foreign car manufacturers by buying their product? The foreign car companies can tell the American public that their vehicles are "made" (actually assembled) in the USA, but the money still goes back to Japan, Germany, etc.
Like I said I'm not for the bailout, but we created this issue.
I didn't like the idea of Chrysler and GM merging initially, but it's better than the alternative.
Have you hugged your Silverado today??
 
The big three executives got to washington yesterday each in a private jet. Give me a break. When Lee Iakoka asked for money in the 80s for Chrysler, he aggreed to 1 dollar a year salary. Where is the ceo integrity that he had.
You will never fix the problem untill you renegotiate the uaw contracts
 
The companies can redo the contracts with the unions, dealers and on down the line if they file for bankruptcy. Until then I'm afraid it will only get worse. You can not pay your employees that much and remain competitive.
BTW I have an '08 Silverado and have driven GM trucks for almost 20yrs. I want them to stick around
 
I am in the auto business and have been since 1977. I agree that this problem has not just happened but has been in the making for a long time. I do take issue with the thoughts that it is because the import cars are such higher quality. I do believe that the general buying public has that perception, but in reality it just isn't true. There are many domestic cars that have a higher quality rating, much lower incidents of repair, and way lower cost of repairs than the Toyotas or Hondas, but I don't imagine that many will believe that.

Of course one of the problems is the UAW contracts but I can't find any where that an auto worker is making $70.00 and hour plus benefits. Also most of the Toyota and Honda plants are under UAW contracts or will soon will be. I know that one big problem that Ford has is that currently the retired nonworking payroll is greater than the actual working payroll. Because these jobs were the best in the world back in the 60's and 70's people flocked to them and stayed with them for 30 years to retire with pensions and health insurance benefits and now those retires out number the workers. Toyota and Honda won't experience that for maybe another 20 years.

Some one mentioned the trickle down effect, but I don't believe that many really understand the overall effect. Not only would this effect the auto assembly plants and the dealership employees and the several parts manufacturers in Iowa but would ripple across our economy. Things like TV stations and newspapers with no dealership or auto adds. Hugh increases in unemployment roles, insurance companies, banks and credit unions whose loan portfolios include large percentages of auto loans, and the list will go on and on clear down to State of Iowa employees especially in the DOT because of reduced sales tax and license fees. This is far more complicated even than the mortgage situation. If you think that after GM goes bankrupt that the government will step in and try to reorganize things, do you understand that would cost way way more tax dollars than giving out some government guaranteed loans to the car people. They may not always make the right decisions but I gotta think that they know more about the real world and the auto industry than all the Senators and committees in Washington. We have given subsidies for years to farming, dairy, tobacco, medicine, and others, so why would we not do the same thing now for an industry that directly and indirectly effect more people in the US than any other industry?
 
Unions!!!!!!!!!!
thumbsdown.gif
 
I've read that one before and IMO he is right on.
It really looked bad when the execs showed up, hat in hand, while flying in on privet jets worth millions themselves. I know if I run out of money my boat will go, I'll trade down in trucks, maybe even get rid of one vehicle. There is a lot of trimming to do before they "need" government $.
 
Open market, when your selling anything you need to change with the times, and be ahead of your competition. I feel for ya guys that are losing jobs, but when everyone slows down on what they spend money on its going to hurt everywhere. It's going to take along time for this to cycle around, but its not that anyone makes so much less, we just quit over spending our budgets, something big government, and corperations need to start doing.
 
Everyone talks about a free market system, but how many people understand that one of the biggest reasons that the US auto makers are in trouble is because of government regulations? Other than the food industry there is no more government regulation than the auto industry. These same Senators that are complaining about the auto industry are the ones who approved the regs that have created the problems. Has any one ever heard of the CAFE, corporate average fuel economy, regs and how much it cost for R&D to meet them. How about all the safety regs that everyone takes for granted, anyone know what that adds to the cost of every vehicle? I am not saying that cars should not be safe, but why do we need them to be idiot proof? How many know that the US auto market is the only place in the world that GM and Ford lost money last year? Every other market, Europe, Asia, South America all made money. Why do you suppose that is?

As for the far reaching effects of an auto business collapse, think about this. The schools receive massive amounts of revenue from the property tax of auto plants, corporate buildings, and even dealerships. This is besides the taxes paid by the employees. With out jobs these families must move to other places for jobs and school enrollments go down so the per student government funds, paid from tax monies, go away and the quality of education goes down and teachers are let go and schools close or are consolidated. Just a little more to think about in the "Let em go bankrupt, they make too much money any how and it really doesn't effect me any way" conversations.
 
Thanks for your comments Bowmaker, I'm starting to realize that a "simple" fix can't happen since it's a whole lot bigger that we really know.
Let's just all hope that this whole economy thing turns around soon.
 
I'm opposed to any government induced bailout at any level. Instead of weilding the power of goverment, I say reduce the size of the goverment back near a level the founders had in mind. Maintain a strong military and keep everything else minimal. That was the original intent but the growth has been a snowball effect for so long, few have a true grasp on the concept anymore. Cost to maintain operations would plummet to lows no living person can remember, taxes could be a sliver of a fraction of what they are now and everyone would have more disposable income instead of being controlled by the giant of an inefficient beurocratic network the federal government has become. Likely? Nope. Would it work? I absolutely think so and we'd be a better, richer and more independent people for it. Just my $.02, YMMV.
 
Bowman,
I know the problem is far reaching and complex, however your theory doesn't make sense to me. I haven't checked into the auto plants but most plants get huge tax breaks and pay very little property tax (don't know about dealerships). further those taxes go into local coffers, not many auto plants in Iowa. When those employees move from that area they move into another area and pay taxes there. As their taxes are added to the new area they (new area) have more money to spend on education. so it is a gain for the new area. In your theory, the only areas that will see a negitive impact will be around the auto plants themselves (not true but it's your theory).
To address all the money spent in R&D, remember the "other" $25 billion the gov already gave the industry? That is what that $ money was for.
Not saying that it's gonna be fun for anyone, but I don't think your theory floats.
As far as CAFE goes, why can a Opel (German GM) get better mileage have more power and emmit less CO2 into the air? I don't buy the industries whinning about that. Check out the cars in Europe and other places, you might be suprised.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom