Converting invasives to natives, worth the squeeze?

[TheBig8]

I've been working for the past few years on some buckthorn control in one of my woodlots. It is gratifying work and I know it needs to be done, it is very labor intensive and costly. In the short term the deer have vacated this portion of the property. Some of that is probably from my intrusion, some from a lack of cover. I dont want to break open the canopy with TSI until I have a better handle of the invasive understory.
Has anyone undergone a wholesale change in their timber like this and had good/great results? I have another property where I'm strongly considering a massive project (with cost share) to control bush honeysuckle, but this property has been a great hunting property and I'm nervous about destroying my "cover".
I want to leave the forest better for future generations than I found it, but ultimately these are strictly hunting properties and I don't want to negatively impact the hunting for years to come. Any feedback appreciated.

 

[newfarmer]

If you want to leave it better- you need to get rid of invasives. Or at least put a large dent in them so that way the woods can regenerate naturally. Just my 2 cents

 

[Snail3496]

Have a similar situation with bush honeysuckle. It is wildly overwhelming and doesn't lay out where a mulcher or machinery of sorts would be an effective play. I also don't like the idea of aerial spraying, and going into your timber in Oct isn't an option, so winter/early spring has been our work period.

We have been doing 5 ish acre pockets by hand, but it seems like when you get to the end, where you started is already getting more.

I really don't mind it on the edges of our larger woodlot. Seems like it seals it up well for the deer from the open fields around. It's all relative. Some isn't bad, but too much can be bad. Luckily we don't really have it in the center 80% of our timber. We are to the point where I think I'll just be keeping it at bay the rest of my life and completely eradicating it isn't possible.

Remember hearing Bill Winke mention lack of invasives as an important requirement for him buying a new property. Really a great take, but not realistic in some parts of the midwest. At least not my area of eastern IL anyway. Most of our hedge thickets and "woods" are pretty much honeysuckle monocultures.

 

[Hawk32]

Have a similar situation with bush honeysuckle. It is wildly overwhelming and doesn't lay out where a mulcher or machinery of sorts would be an effective play. I also don't like the idea of aerial spraying, and going into your timber in Oct isn't an option, so winter/early spring has been our work period.

We have been doing 5 ish acre pockets by hand, but it seems like when you get to the end, where you started is already getting more.

I really don't mind it on the edges of our larger woodlot. Seems like it seals it up well for the deer from the open fields around. It's all relative. Some isn't bad, but too much can be bad. Luckily we don't really have it in the center 80% of our timber. We are to the point where I think I'll just be keeping it at bay the rest of my life and completely eradicating it isn't possible.

Remember hearing Bill Winke mention lack of invasives as an important requirement for him buying a new property. Really a great take, but not realistic in some parts of the midwest. At least not my area of eastern IL anyway. Most of our hedge thickets and "woods" are pretty much honeysuckle monocultures.

Curios as to why not? I have one buddy who is considering it, another that did it last year and said it was a great thing so far. I have only actually seen one area that was sprayed and that was on Core ground and it was an instant mess of briars, stick tights and crap and in 3 years was back to honey suckle.

 

[Bucksnbears]

My woods are polluted with BT and PA.
So much that I've learned to embrace the Suck.

 

[JRadd33]

Curios as to why not? I have one buddy who is considering it, another that did it last year and said it was a great thing so far. I have only actually seen one area that was sprayed and that was on Core ground and it was an instant mess of briars, stick tights and crap and in 3 years was back to honey suckle.

Following. I’m considering aerial spraying MR in clear cut areas but am concerned for young oaks that may be growing in there. It’s so thick though, I need to do something.

 

[Sligh1]

Bush honeysuckle- man- hearing great things on aerial treatment. For how bad it is & how it’s done - very little downside & massive benefits for low cost. The timing of BHS staying green after all else is dormant is so huge an opportunity.

Converting invasive to other better stuff including Tsi… 100% I’d do it. The “what about pressure or work load or coming back later” …. Million ways to slice & dice that… one example… say a guy has “40 acres of timber” (whatever)…. Do 10 acres per year for 4 years. Once it’s killed and Tsi is done…. 10 acres of getting the regrowth is probably 1/10th the work of the initial job. Id call it “a maintenance day”. Spend 1 day per year in that 10 acres hitting the regrowth of nasty stuff. Most the seed bank is gone after 2. Still be some but 2 years is the bulk.
After a couple times/years of maintaining…. It’s tiny bit of time after that- way easier.

The most work by far is step 1: killing it & Tsi. Next round - still some work but way less & way easier. Then- years down road- lil touch up’s… easier yet.
Millions of ways to do this. Just take on what’s manageable but aggressive imo. Doing Tsi & even interseeding/planting…. Tons of options there too so fire back on specifics if doing that.

 

[Bucksnbears]

I've bowhunted Many properties that are full of BT over the years.
Had some great hunts within or edges of it.
I've learned to embrace it somewhat.
Finding a pocket of it with a big tree in/ next to it for a treestand and cutting a few lanes just WORKS. Getting in/ out is kinda tough though.

BT tickets here will almost 100% have a major trail traversing through it.
Knowing I'm by far the minority on where I sit ( LOVE ) getting in thick/ tight n close, BT/ PA tickets are golden.

Dragging them out kinda sucks though. Lol.

 

[Sligh1]

I don’t disagree one bit that all the invasives create thickets. & deer like “thick stuff”. For sure & everyone on here has pry seen invasives that create nasty thick areas. Heck- even natives like cedars or less desirable things like prickly ash. Million forms of “thick stuff” - native & non-native. The ?’s then come: 1) can they get too thick where more damage is done than good? (Bush honeysuckle FOR sure is yes) 2) can they reproduce & get out of control & take over native vegetation? 3) is nutrition, browse, bedding ideal?
& 100% I would say “don’t just tear your thick (bad stuff) out & leave it wide open!!!!…. Do Tsi or put other stuff in there so it’s a thicket but a far more beneficial thicket.
Kinda like my cedar project…. I frigin love cedars. But they were 5x thicker than should have been & deer use went from “great” to “can’t use it at all”. Thinned em down & will keep em thinned but I’ll also add some other shrubs & trees … or maybe a bit of natives or forbs to diversify it. It’ll still be thick but not too thick.
One other hube thing (of big list) …Forest browse MUST be a component for deer. U want TONS of it. With bad BHS or anything that takes over & out of control…. You will lose all nutrition in those areas too.
We all want thick + ideal…. Million ways to get there & accomplish both at same time.

 

[JRadd33]

Bush honeysuckle- man- hearing great things on aerial treatment. For how bad it is & how it’s done - very little downside & massive benefits for low cost. The timing of BHS staying green after all else is dormant is so huge an opportunity.

Converting invasive to other better stuff including Tsi… 100% I’d do it. The “what about pressure or work load or coming back later” …. Million ways to slice & dice that… one example… say a guy has “40 acres of timber” (whatever)…. Do 10 acres per year for 4 years. Once it’s killed and Tsi is done…. 10 acres of getting the regrowth is probably 1/10th the work of the initial job. Id call it “a maintenance day”. Spend 1 day per year in that 10 acres hitting the regrowth of nasty stuff. Most the seed bank is gone after 2. Still be some but 2 years is the bulk.
After a couple times/years of maintaining…. It’s tiny bit of time after that- way easier.

The most work by far is step 1: killing it & Tsi. Next round - still some work but way less & way easier. Then- years down road- lil touch up’s… easier yet.
Millions of ways to do this. Just take on what’s manageable but aggressive imo. Doing Tsi & even interseeding/planting…. Tons of options there too so fire back on specifics if doing that.

Skip, do I cut my losses and take a chance on damaging young trees? We logged 5 years ago. Several hundred oaks and walnut. Also, is it a good time of year to spray. Really easy to see it right now. Southern Illinois.

 

[BearCreek]

It's worth the squeeze for me. I battle reed canary grass in my bottoms and bush honeysuckle/multi flora rose on my high ground. I'm getting rid of invasives and other undesirables regardless of the short term impact on deer hunting. The benefit to other species makes it worthwhile to me. I've started utilizing aerial drone spraying in my bottoms for the RCG and that seems to be working. My favorite method for BH elimination is cutting in dormant season and wiping stumps with gly. I prefer this method because I know which ones are dead (as opposed to spraying the foliage and leaving it standing). This also works on MFR. I use this combination and it works on pretty much any size stem. The ability to cut, paint, and move to the next is key with this setup. You can also use the head of the saw to push the vegetation away from the stump. This was my first season using it and I will likely make improvements. It is a little heavy.

 

[Snail3496]

Finding a pocket of it with a big tree in/ next to it for a treestand and cutting a few lanes just WORKS

yes sir! And any trail or opening you cut, they will use heavy!

 

[Snail3496]

Curios as to why not? I have one buddy who is considering it, another that did it last year and said it was a great thing so far. I have only actually seen one area that was sprayed and that was on Core ground and it was an instant mess of briars, stick tights and crap and in 3 years was back to honey suckle.

I am not a hippie but just napalm spraying my only timber and all of the critters inside of it in Oct/Nov just seems weird to me.