JNRBRONC
Well-Known Member
This is really aimed at farmers, but might be some information to be gleaned from it: Click here for cover crops
Bassattackr
Well-Known Member
I enjoy the Ag PHD channel. This topic comes up often.
Taking a break from planting piles of CRP right now. Going over some junk soil that has been abused from before the time I was born. I was looking at some “junk land” I have been doing 10+ years of cover crops & diverse blends…. Soil looks completely different & what grows there is totally different than 10 years ago. One field OLD FARMERS who watched that field for “50 years” said “u ain’t gonna grow nothing but cedars!” Looks amazing & fertility, organic matter & health of soil is “really good”. Was thinking of something today…. Folks always go “the soil needs more FERTILIZER” or lime or building back p&k & micros…. All true stuff. But….. I honestly think you can do more to your soil & field with the seeds you put on it vs fertilizer, etc. U put a field in diverse CRP or rotate some great cover crop blends & keep it seeded down… by far best way to fix soil IMO.
Another one I thought of this weekend (lot of tractor time, sorry!)…. A ton of erosion has taken place & massive wash outs in last 10-25 years. I’ve seen a lot of farms get BAD in “5 years” on occasion. It’s almost as if more damage has been done recently than say the 1920’s to 1970’s…. Maybe I’m wrong but kinda seems like it. 20’s to 70’s I tried to think what was different…. 1) they had more grass in large periods of those times where now everyone wants crop. Maybe part of it??? 2) the herbicides are far more effective!!! Back in day - corn was full of weeds when I was a kid …. I gotta think that held more soil & in a way “acted like a cover crop”????? Maybe I’m wrong there too??? 3) then u just start running through other little things…. Amount of anhydrous used vs it not existing many decades ago …. Stuff nukes the soil & kills a lot of stuff off.
Dunno. Maybe it’s always been a constant battle - probably has. Then in these decades of time there’s “breaks” where ground went in CRP or didn’t get farmed (like 80’s to 90’s) or went to pasture for a decade. & to see areas that were grasslands with no ditches 40-50 years ago & now they are ravines with FOREST (which I do like the trees of course) …. Crazy to see how fast ground can change in a couple decades.
Another one I thought of this weekend (lot of tractor time, sorry!)…. A ton of erosion has taken place & massive wash outs in last 10-25 years. I’ve seen a lot of farms get BAD in “5 years” on occasion. It’s almost as if more damage has been done recently than say the 1920’s to 1970’s…. Maybe I’m wrong but kinda seems like it. 20’s to 70’s I tried to think what was different…. 1) they had more grass in large periods of those times where now everyone wants crop. Maybe part of it??? 2) the herbicides are far more effective!!! Back in day - corn was full of weeds when I was a kid …. I gotta think that held more soil & in a way “acted like a cover crop”????? Maybe I’m wrong there too??? 3) then u just start running through other little things…. Amount of anhydrous used vs it not existing many decades ago …. Stuff nukes the soil & kills a lot of stuff off.
Dunno. Maybe it’s always been a constant battle - probably has. Then in these decades of time there’s “breaks” where ground went in CRP or didn’t get farmed (like 80’s to 90’s) or went to pasture for a decade. & to see areas that were grasslands with no ditches 40-50 years ago & now they are ravines with FOREST (which I do like the trees of course) …. Crazy to see how fast ground can change in a couple decades.
Bassattackr
Well-Known Member
Skip - I think you’re spot on.
Wider and scrubby fencerows where not only great erosion buffers, but flush with wildlife (quail, rabbits) as well!
Herbicides are definitely much more effective, weedy crops were the norm “back in the day”. Pre Round Up, it was all row crop cultivation.
Wider and scrubby fencerows where not only great erosion buffers, but flush with wildlife (quail, rabbits) as well!
Herbicides are definitely much more effective, weedy crops were the norm “back in the day”. Pre Round Up, it was all row crop cultivation.
ANYONE ON HERE…. Go to a fence row that’s avoided the plow/tillage & herbicide for DECADES…. They are still everywhere in most deer/ag areas…. Take a shovel & scoop out a load Feel the “tilth” of how easy shovel goes in and how soft/mellow the ground is. Look at how dark, crumbly & structured the soil is. Then- repeat the exact same thing on the ag field 20’ away…. Night & day difference I’ll bet. Ag one will be harder, “sandy” or falls apart or maybe stays in “brick form”. Color will be lighter with less carbon & roots, etc etc. One you will say “this is healthy good soil!!!” The other you will say “this is sure not ideal”. Most cases I bet folks will notice night & day difference.
Skip I just took a fence row out along a county road. Saw exactly what you are talking about. The fence row also looked “built up”, and I remembered thinking at the time that I wondered if the south wind had blown good black bottomland soil to my fence row where the tall grass and weeds caught it.
It was probably more like what you are talking about. Decades of roots and worms and good soil health.
It was probably more like what you are talking about. Decades of roots and worms and good soil health.
Yep!!!! See it all the time where the tree row is taller than the fields on all sides. Wondered same thing. Kinda looks like this (yes- this is 1st grade drawing skills)….
Wind catching some. That’s a good idea. Another 2 things I wonder…. 1) working the soil breaks the soil structure …. It turns what might look like a sponge with air pockets, worm & root channels, etc - into a BLOCK. So, it makes it more shallow than the area that still has all that structure & “fluff”. 2) I do think the tillage & herbicides simply caused soil loss. Let’s say you had a tree row that was there for “50 years” & not worked…. Many inches of top soil are still there that are not next to it. We have literally lost 1/2 of the top soil in iowa in like 150 years. So- even 50 years of not losing soil…. That’s a huge difference.
Check this out- can google this stuff in 2 seconds. Here’s my last ADHD statment/question of the day….. we lose $1 billion dollars in top soil each year in iowa. We lose $5.2m in crop damage “supposedly from deer” …. Why do we hear NOTHING from farm bureau (or almost nothing) or any lobbying for things to address top soil loss but we see/hear them go absolutely bananas on the crop damage & the “million dollars” statewide we might “get in taxes” With some forest reserve tax changes. Get rid of every frigin deer & tree so maybe there’s a $5-7m gain in corn bean production …. While FB is dead silent on $1B in top soil swept to the Gulf of Mexico, lakes, rivers & all the pollutants in the water…. Ya- logical isn’t it?!?!? Truly fires me up to oppose farm bureau… filthy rich lobbying organization of GREEDY ANGRY folks who are all “me me me, $$$$$$$” over ANYTHING & ANYONE else.
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madplotter
PMA Member
Anyone who took ag classes up until the 90's was preached to about soil health and erosion control. Something happened after that and now it is not even discussed openly anymore. Strange what PR and money can do...add in unqualified elected officials and we have the perfect storm of ignorance.
The old boy who farmed next to me seemed to really know what he was doing. First farmer that I ever heard mention organic matter in the soil like he really thought it was important. Was a no till guy and he liked to knife in slurry every year and idk what this means for soil health but he put liquid fert in at the same time he planted. (just noticed this was different than most guys around me.) His fields always looked good. He wasn't regenerative but you also didn't see erosion or hardpan.
He retired. The new guy loves anhydrous, tills to a fine powder even before the weeds get started so they go crazy as soon as you get heat and rain then sprays the waist high weeds. Ground is hard as a rock. Rain makes mini canyons.
I'm not a farmer but I remember a farmer buddy say about another farmer "that guy couldn't farm his way out of a paper bag" and I realized that there is some art to farming. I started seeing the art many years ago.
He retired. The new guy loves anhydrous, tills to a fine powder even before the weeds get started so they go crazy as soon as you get heat and rain then sprays the waist high weeds. Ground is hard as a rock. Rain makes mini canyons.
I'm not a farmer but I remember a farmer buddy say about another farmer "that guy couldn't farm his way out of a paper bag" and I realized that there is some art to farming. I started seeing the art many years ago.
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