Deer Hunting..........Where Have You Gone???

[5465]

First off, i would like to go ahead and say thank you to the people who decide to take the time to read this post, for it is pretty long!

i realize that there are probably a lot of you out there that are tired of hearing about hunting and how it is "possibly" heading in the wrong direction! but this is a subject that i am very passionate about and i feel my voice needs to be heard, although it will probably not go any further then this great and wonderful website!

last night as i was reading the article in Peterson's Bowhunting, "The Wrong Result", for what seems like the 100th time, it made me once again sit and think back at how good the "Good 'ol Days" were(although my "good 'ol days" probably don't go back as far as some). back when a buck was a buck, and a doe was a doe, back when hunting was more about going out and scoring on a deer, hopefully a big buck, but in all reality during this time any bone would do! back then if someone around your area shot a dandy buck, say for instance a 160 class 10 pointer, it wasn't "major" news like it is today! it was really no different then a 60 inch 6 pointer or a 110 inch 8 pointer. in todays hunting world, a 110 inch 8 pointer is considered inferior to some, well i'll go out on a limb here and say that a 110 inch 8 pointer is considered inferior by 60% of the hunting population.

Yes, i am just like any other hunter, i chase that big buck every year. and to be honest with you, i would love nothing more than to shoot a 160 class buck every year instead of a 100-130 class buck every year, some years smaller! but really no matter the size, i am still just as happy if it's 100 inches or 160 inches, now don't get me wrong, if it was a specific deer i was after, that would classify in a whole different class of emotions. size doesn't really matter all that much to me. if it were not for the tight tag resrtictions here in ohio, i could easily tag out in the first 3 days of season every year, but i love this sport more then anything and i want to hunt from day one to the very last day of season, so i pass up a lot of deer, mainly does and a few smaller bucks, early in the season. this was something that i was taught back in the "good 'ol days". i even witnessed my dad on 4 occasions pass up bucks in the 160-180 inch range on the first few days of shotgun season(only time out of the year he hunted other then muzzleloading) only to see him take a small spike or six pointer or small 8 point on the last day, or even a doe. all because he didn't want to get out of those woods!

i hear the phrase every year from a number of people, "i'll eat my tag". IMO, one of the most direspectful phrases in hunting. ok, so you were a lucky hunter in 2002 and killed a 130 class deer and in 2003 you stepped it up and got even luckier and killed a 140 class, immediately most hunters get it in there head that, "next year i ain't going to take anything any smaller then these 2". deer season 2004 rolls around and your talking with you friends about the upcoming season. ya'll start talking about how big of a buck you're all going to get, and they ask you and you say " well if they aren't as big as the ones i have on the wall or bigger, i'll just eat my tag". well what i get from hearing someone say stuff like this is your basically telling me, "sorry boys but them little 6's, 4's, and small 8's just aren't good enough for me." we have been taught our whole lives and we do what we can in our lives to not classify other people or ourselves as better then others, so how can we go into the deer woods and say that deer A is much better then deer B. we shouldn't do it to people so why do it to deer! so just because you might have a 145 inch 12 pointer on the wall doesn't mean that you have to go out and shoot something bigger this year.

like i said earlier i go after them big bucks to, but i'll be the first to tell you that after shotgun season is over, any bone is fair game, spike or 12 pointer, i'll be damned if i would ever "eat" my buck tag! we have let the word trophy take on a whole new meaning. to us the word "trophy" is not just any buck or doe any more, we can say that is what it means but we all know that we really think that the true meaning a "trophy" buck is "one for the record books", and shooting the small bucks, like we used to have fun doing years ago, is now no longer a trophy and is considered something that you can take your son/daughter out during youth season and let them take. come on boys, think back about how much fun it was back then, when what you killed didn't matter. no, i'm not saying it's not fun anymore, i have a blast every fall and i get the most out of each year, as for i average around 90 days per season in the woods(with the exception of this year), but it used to be funner!

now this last complaint kinda goes along with the Peterson's Bowhunting article i mentioned earlier. for a man to sue a state because they only allow him to aqquier for 10% of the non-resident tags is unjustifiable. same goes for the amount of money that a lot of these outfitters charge for a hunt anywhere from 1000-20000, although it is also partly the hunters fault for being stupid enough to pay the ridiculous prices. anyways, after reading that article, i was playing around on the internet, jumped over to ebay and started looking up some hunting equip. well after i did that i decided to see what all was for sale as far as shed antlers. BAM! 9 pages worth of antlers!i saw antlers going as high as $700. i have had others tell me that they have seen locked horns go for $3000-$5000. of course there were sheds of all sizes, different types, and actual deer mounts. selling antlers......... this is a prime example of how a lot of hunters and others have let these "trophy antlers" get out of hand. to me if i go out shed hunting and find any size shed, it has a certain importance to me. same goes for me killing a buck, even a massive proportions, i can't see selling those the mount to any organization or person. it just seems almost disrespectful to the animal, almost like saying "finally i gotcha/found you, now i'm gonna make some money off of you". and with the crap that i have seen that some of these hunters that have killed these bucks that have been put in every magazine and tv show have gone through i probably wouldn't tell anyone i shot a world record! although i will somewhat contridict myself here, i plan on buying an antler chandilier for my new home, mainly because i just don't have the knack for finding that many sheds to make some like others. plus the ones i do find are usually chewed to pieces. it will not be authentic antlers it will be replicas, i know this doesn't make what i am doing better, and i'm not proud of it, and i will never "buy" anything else antler because it will never mean as much.

i don't mean to offend anyone but i truly feel that something needs to be done about this. i am very worried about the furture of our hunting heritage. soon we will not be able to afford to buy the tags, and we all know that the price of gear is out of this world. like i said before i just want to be a voice that is heard and it probably won't go farther then this website, but i feel there is a ridiculous amount of "{cashing in" going on in the world of hunting and it will be the downfall of the sport. thanks for reading, i could go on and on but i am tired of typing! once again thanks!

Pete

 

[quackmaster]

I'm sorry, but I don't agree with you.

For starters, until the next election, it is still a FREE America, where we are given the right to choose. You mention that people set their sights higher every year. What is wrong with that? Trying to do better, not settling. It sounds to me like you are just killing the smaller deer, just so you can say "I killed a deer this year". If you would let those walk, maybe you would see something a little better. Hey but shoot what ever you want.

As far as cost goes, deer hunting is only as expensive as you want it to be. I have no problems with farmers making money off of deer hunters. Around here if it were not for charging lease money for duck and deer hunting, some farmers couldn't make it.

You say you are worried about the future because of these high prices. Basic econ. if plenty of people are willing to pay for it, the prices will stay high. Apparently there are. If more and more people quit hunting prices will fall.

I guess I see the opposite view that you do, sure there may be some that quit hunting, and others that never start but I still think it is still going strong. 20 years ago you didn't have tv channels dedicated to hunting. Sure they show hunts with large animals being harvested, why would I want to watch someone shooting a bunch of forkies?

We all have a choice, and I'm sorry everything is not equal in this world. Some people have the funds to do things, some don't. I myself will continue to watch the big bucks on the outdoor channel and in the mags and wish someday that I may come across an animal like that whether I pay to do it or find the animal on my own. After all, some of the funnest part of hunting is the dream, its free to do that.

 

[kansasbowhunter]

Split, I respect your opinion, however, I have to agree with the quackmaster on this one.....

You need to realize that as we mature as hunters we go through different stages.... When we are starting out hunting we go through the "Kill as much as we can" stage..... You know, the mentality of I have to get my limit no matter what!!! When I was younger I went through it as do the large majority of hunters. That point in our hunting lives it is a competition with the other hunters to be successfull and the perception is that success is harvesting something and hopefully a limit of that something. You know, a buck is a buck and any bone is good bone....

As we mature we move into the trophy stage where we focus all of our efforts on shooting a trophy... By this time we have harvested many animals and are driven to harvest something that is more challenging/difficult. As a deer hunter I am in this stage right now, I will hunt hard in hopes of harvesting a large mature whitetail. During this stage the hunter is looking for the challenge and raises the bar.... This is a natural progression....

Next comes the stage where the hunter simply enjoys being out with mother nature!!! THe hunter has harvested many animals in his or her life and is more in tune with enjoying nature. Quantity and quality do not matter, only the experience. This stage also sees the hunter wanting to share the tradition of hunting with others. As a duck hunter I am in this stage right now. I have harvested hundreds of ducks and geese, I have a lanyard full of duck and goose bands (all that I have harvested), I have killed geese with neck collars. Right now, I really enjoy taking others duck hunting and could really care less if I killed another duck. It is a high for me call in a large flock of fat red leg mallards for someone else!!! I absolutely love calling in geese for my kids!!! Each time I go out duck hunting I absorb the entire experience, I love the smell of the marsh, I love listening to the sound of decoys hitting the water, I love hearing the sounds of wings flying over my blind when it is still dark, killing does not matter, the experience does....

Selling antlers and hunting trophies on ebay is an effect of basic economics.... There are people that are willing to buy shed antlers, deer heads, duck and goose bands and as long as there are buyers, there will be sellers. I know members of this website that purchase shed antlers because of their love and respect for the antlers. They do not boast that they found the antlers, they are true collectors and love everthing about the antlers. I also know members of this web site that sell shed antlers on ebay, they are fortunate enough to live in areas where they are able to find a lot of quality antlers. They also collect shed antlers and keep only the high quality ones and sell the others to help put food on their table. I will never fault these people for their actions because of their love and respect for these prizes of mother nature!!!

Lastly, I do know people that buy duck and goose bands on ebay to put on their lanyard so they can boast that they are big time waterfowlers. I simply ignore these idiots and let them act like they are experienced hunters. They know that they are complete frauds and they are choosing to live their lives as complete fakes.

In short, we all have to watch out for ourselves and make sure that we do the right thing because in the end we all will have to answer for our actions....

Now, I am off of my soap box...

Mark...

 

[Kat]

Very well said Kansasbowhunter. I think one of the things you’re saying Split, is that you’re worrying that people are being pressured into the ‘big buck stage’ before they are ready. I think it’s important to respect the different stages that people are in. Hunting means different things to different people, and if someone is happy with whatever deer that they take, then that should be good enough. If someone wants to ‘eat his tag’ by holding out for a certain size deer, or shoot the first one that comes along, then that’s their choice to make, and I respect that. As far as putting labels on deer, saying some are better than others, I’m afraid that is just human nature – we want the ‘best’ and we use whatever criteria we think makes the subject fit that description. I wrote before that “all deer are equal in the eyes of God and nature. And mine.†But it took time for me to get there. Now I see the beautiful uniqueness of each one – the small forkie is as beautiful as the 160 class. If you shoot the forkie he will never grow into the 160 class, but whether you shoot him then or now, either way the end result will be the same: that particular deer will be dead. It’s up to the individual hunter to decide when that time will be. There is no right or wrong answer – it just depends on what deer hunting means to you. And the common bond that should bring all hunters together, regardless, is love: the love of the hunt, the love of the outdoors, love of the challenges, triumphs and heartaches that come with it. And the love and respect we give to our quarry, which was given to us by our Creator to nourish our bodies and quicken our hearts with every encounter.

I’m like you Split, in that I hope that a monster waits until later in the season to walk by me, so it’s not over too soon. That’s the reason I started bowhunting, and spring turkey hunting – to be able to spend as much time hunting as I could. Will the lure of big antlers be the end of hunting? I can see the pros and cons of both sides of the money issue. I can honestly say that I don’t know the answer there. But I do know that when I read the stories on this board and see the photos posted – especially of the dads and kids with their eyes lit up and their beautiful smiles, that tells me that no, it won’t be the end – I can see the future of hunting shining through in these pictures.

 

[Shredder]

Although I respect your opinion on the issue, I tend to agree with the above.

 

[poncho72]

I agree with Kansasbowhunter. I am totally into the mothernature scene! I don't care if I kill anything to be completely honest, sitting in a treestand or a groundblind is soothing to me. I have a step-brother that is strictly a buck shooter, this goes for bow and shotgun hunting. His wife shoots a muzzleloader and she is strictly into killing bucks. My brother and I have gotten into serious debates about this since either one of them will fill out on does, I am all for hunting bucks throughout the season, but when it gets down to the end of the season and you haven't filled out yet, it is in my oppinion that you should atleast fill out on a doe. He on the other hand thinks that there are enough people, like myself, that take enough does that he doesn't have to take one. He almost comes off as a little embarassed to even think of himself or his wife taking a doe! Thats wrong and I tell him that, he has always been a little arrogant and self centered, I won't get into that. LOL
The TV shows that we watch show a lot of big bucks taken, but if you watch them enough you will see them showing lots of does taken for conservation and good doe to buck ratio's. I watched a show by Drury last week that showed him take a nice doe with his bow.
What makes this country great is our ability to make our own desicions. What is right for one person, may not be right to another, I have no problem with that and I usually keep my oppinions to myself, in the end, what I believe is only important to me, and I don't need to get on my soapbox and tell everyone else.
If I sit in my stand this fall and a nice buck walks by I might shoot it, I have already had situations for a clean doe kill and have passed. If I get past the rut without a buck and a doe comes by, It may be in serious jeopardy. When shotgun gets here, the first nice deer, doe or buck that walks by is deadmeat. I won't take a fawn out, not enough meat.
Oh.. Hey Kansas. Nothing better than ducks with the wings cupped and feet down eh...........

 

[Liv4Rut]

I respect your opinion to split g3, I just don't agree with it I noticed how you think guys that would rather eat their tag, is about the worst thing a person could do. In my honest opinion a guy that would shoot a small buck just to say they shot a buck, when they have spent all season passing up much bigger bucks, would be about the worst thing you could do. If you have the will and drive to pass on deer, then obviously, you want a good buck and when you do shoot a much smaller buck, I don't see how you can really say you are just as happy with it as if it were a 160 class buck. Maybe you are, maybe your not, but if it were me, I would have let myself down and had given in to the challenge. that is why I like to hunt big mature bucks, it is a challenge, for me shooting a 2.5 year old buck or less is just too easy, shooting a 4+ year old buck is a whole different ball game, and one im willing to step up to the plate and take a swing at, and it's a game where i am gonna strike out from year to year, and it's one where I will keep on a swinging until I get the deer that I want, and if im gonna strike out in the end, im gonna go down with a big mature doe. Good post though, I just like the challenge of the hunt and hunting mature deer, who's odds are greatly in their favor, so shooting small bucks, doesn't give me much of a challenge and no future for big mature bucks

 

[FurDog]

[ QUOTE ]
But I do know that when I read the stories on this board and see the photos posted – especially of the dads and kids with their eyes lit up and their beautiful smiles, that tells me that no, it won’t be the end – I can see the future of hunting shining through in these pictures.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love reading those types of stories too, having no children of my own [yet]...I'm counting the days to take my nephews as I am the only one in my family of 8 siblings that hunt.

 

[alaskanwhtail]

I agree and disagree, I would like to clarify this SplitG3, Some of those antlers/mounts are sold for the mula, some are sold by divorved wifes that can't stand the site of thier ex husband. Then thier are the most avid hunters/shedhunter, that can't afford to put food on the table for thier young child, so they are absolutly forced to sell them as they are not a nessity but a desire or want. People selling antlers are not getting rich by any standerds. 100,000.00 for the Louvsten Buck does not make the kid rich his whole life as it will probable only cover his tuition for a couple of years. I was once tottally dead set against selling antlers and still will never sell any. But thats my point of view. You have some good points that I'll agree with, The hertigage of hunting will never be the same and will change every year. Who knows maybe next year in Ohio they'll change your regulations so you can't shoot a trophy spike. The price's that go with outfitting are always gonna increase, Thats there bread and butter, wouldn't we all like a raise or better benifits. Those guys there get you your trophy of a lifetime. If you went to Alberta for whitetails and shot a 180 class buck, ya got what you paid for cause those bucks don't come easy in the world we live in. Thats just my 2 cents.

 

[5465]

i respect everyones opinion, and though it might seem strange, i kinda agree with everyone of you also!

i guess i should start by saying that i am not one of those hunters who kills for the sake of killing. although the way i worded my post sounds that way! i eat all of my meat, probably faster than most! a good size deer don't last more than a montha at my house, and i'm the only one who eats it.

once again, i am like 90% of the hunters in this country and i set my standards high from the opening of bow season clear through shotgun season. usually from year to year until shotgun season is over i do everything i can to not shoot a buck unless it is atleast 3 inches wider than the tips of the ears. but after that my standards dip lower and lower as the days go by. now, i should also say that as the season progresses towards the end, i don't go in search of a smaller buck, i am still after a big one until the last day. but towards the end of the season if a smaller buck walks by i am going to take it.

as i get older i find myself getting more into hunting every year. i learn more and more each year. i also seem to take it more serious every year, although i don't think i could take it more serious than i do now.

even though this site is completely the opposite, as most everyone on here sees a six pointer that another member of the site might take as a trophy in it's own way, and are proud of the other hunter. in my area that is totally different. here there are so many big buck hunters. i myself hunt with a few people from time to time that strictly go after the "big buck". they will eat there tags for a few years in a row and then get one and then go a few more years of eating there tag. now these are guys that love the outdoors as much as i do and love just sitting in the woods, some of them start sitting in there stands in the evening time in late june/early july! i guess i myself see it this way: if i gou out after that big buck this year and don't succeed and late in january i take a small 6 pointer and they went all season after that big buck and didn't come out with anything, atleast at the end of the season i can say i took a buck, not for the sake of taking one but i took it because it made the whole season that much better. they may tell me that ain't much of a buck and it would've been a nice 8 pointer next year. but to me i appreciate it the way it is.

i will definetly agree with you in the sense that yes that hunt would've been much sweeter if it was a 160 class 10 pointer, but i still appreciate the deer with the rack it's got. this is absolutely no trophy to them and they express there opinion and automatically consider you an inferior hunter than them. my decision for this, in my area is not respected because the pursuit for that "trophy buck" has exploded.

i guess i just see the hunt as, taking a buck no matter what the size has made it that much more memorable. that's one reason why i joined this site, i atleast have some people i can talk to about hunting that are respectful, no matter what the decision! i appreciate that very much! good luck to all

Pete

 

[teeroy]

in iowa, we have anysex tags, and antlerless only tags. so filling that anysex tag with an inferior buck, just for the sake of taking a buck (for the rack) is foolish. fill it with a doe, and enjoy the meat.

 

[SaskGuy]

I could really go on and on about this post but I'll try not to. Though I know the post wasn't a shot at anybody persoanlly it hit that way a little with me splitg3.
I hunt mature bucks and I will eat my tag if need be, sure I'll take a doe on the last day but if the chance doesn't arrive, I'll hang it on the Xmas tree, have in the past, will again. I'm lucky enough to own a beautiful house on the forest fringe, I can hunt bucks 500 yards from home, in fact, the farthest I've travelled to kill one was 7 miles. I love seeing deer and all wildlife, I feed the deer when old man winter hits and like watching the young bucks, wondering what they might amount to some day. I could shoot a young buck every day, would this make me better than being willing to eat my tag if I have to, I think not, I think passing them in hopes of a trophy is the right thing to do, I'd like to see the little guys grow up to be big mature Sask bucks!! I don't expect everybody to think this way. I'll help friends take a deer....any deer and will be happy for them, I just won't do it myself. It's a personal thing and I thinkeverybody's personal convictions should be respected.

I spend many many hours each year looking for sheds, I love it and get a rush from each one I pick up, big or small. I think Kansasbowhunter was speaking of me when he mentioned site members that sell on ebay, I do. Does this mean I do it for the money, absolutely not, I do it for the love of finding sheds and exploring the great north at the harshest time of the year. The dangerous and rugged beauty of the snow covered forest gets me out of bed many a cold winter morning. I'd keep every single shed I found if I could afford to but I cannot. I have a modest job, my wife's is even more modest. With a mortgage, vehicle payments, student loans and the cost of a child we budget very hard to make eneds meet each month. This budget doesn't include things like Christmas, vehicle and household repairs, an education fund for our children. If selling shed antlers that i find helps lighten the load for years to come and make things less financially stressful then I'll continue to do it. When my son gets older, he'll be tagging along with his old man. Hopefully he gets the thrill out of finding sheds that I do, and if he wishes to sell them to buy something he so desires, then I'll let him. I don't like selling my sheds, i wish I could keep them all but I'll awlays put my family over top of my own little obsessions, i think anybody in their right mind should. Hopefully the day will come when the wolves are further from the door, I'll maybe quit selling sheds, likely not, after all, how many 60" 5pt sheds does a guy need lting around? I envy those who do keep them all, that's great but I would rather have a new muzzleloader than a pile of little sheds. Of course that is just an example.
I realize I'm starting to ramble but I got the idea from the post that actions such as mine are ruining the sport of hunting and I think I'm an excellent steward of out outdoors. I'll try to pass on all I've learned to my children, hopefully they'll come to love the outdoors and mother nature half as much as I do. I'm lucky to be able to live in a low populated game rich area. I'm lucky that my family is understanding and lets me do the things I love to do, there is nothing I'd rather do than hunt mature bucks and look for sheds. Maybe a shed I find this winter will turn into my next 3 year obsession, I hope so. I'll end off now, I know I didn't keep it short as planned but I don't think these things are what's hurting hunting. It's lawbreakers, and over commercialization, NOT people like ME!!!

 

[dc240nt]

Well said Kaare.., very well said! (Great buck by the way) I too sell some sheds on Ebay, under the same user name as I use here. I don't hide it from anyone and ALL that know me are aware of this hobby. Am I getting rich because of it? Not in the least. I have to purchase most of what I sell. The purchase to profit margin is so little now days that its hardly worth doing anymore. I will continue though, because it gives me a chance to hold and possess a great antler for awhile. I'm completely infactuated with big sheds and big whitetails. Nothing in my life comes close, outside of my family of coarse. The little money I make has purchased me a rifle, a muzzleloader, and occasionally a new set of tires for the pickup. The guns have taken good bucks, the tires get me there, whats left over goes in the gas tank. I travel several thousand miles each year looking for sheds (this year 4 trips to canada, 8 trips to northern Minnesota), several more thousand miles searching for and hunting big bucks (this fall already 4 trips to Canada, 4 trips to northern Minnesota). I wouldn't change any of it because I love it all.., even the all night drives. This year my oldest Daughter will join me in hunting, so the exspense has gone up. I've had to sell several "piles" of craft sized sheds, sheds that I've personally found. Also had to sell a few giants that I purchased with the intention to keep. Didn't want to, but I did have to. I've found over 2000 sheds in my years as a shed hunter, I sold all the smaller sheds because I can't see any sense in keeping them in a dusty box in the garage. Just my opinion. My lust for big sheds and bigger bucks began when I was about 5 years old. I'm 41 now and the desire is stronger now then ever. I've shot my share of deer, big and small. However, it now takes a pretty special buck to get my adrenaline pumping. Maybe its the size of the rack, maybe its a smaller rack but because of the area/circumstances he becomes a trophy? I don't mind shooting does and will before a young buck. Thats just where I've progressed to as a hunter. The most important thing to remember is that a trophy is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[ReleaseHunter]

[ QUOTE ]
The most important thing to remember is that a trophy is in the eye of the beholder.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't agree more. Very well said on everyone's behalf.

 

[5465]

you're right saskguy this is not a shot at ANYBODY! as far as the sheds go, i myself don't see it from your point of view, same goes for you dc240nt. i don't have a pile of sheds, because i, by far, do not have a knack for finding these things. heck, i probably only have 30 at the most, in about 5 persistent years of hunting them. so therefore, having a pile of sheds is something that i don't know what feels like. maybe, just maybe, if i would ever get lucky enough to ever have a pile of sheds laying around, i too might sell them, like i said i've never looked at it from your point of view.

also i have no problem with anyone who sells them in order to make ends meet! i do realize that there are some instances when this has to happen, and that's fine. but there are people out there who are just doing it for the sake of "cashing in". this is really what i don't agree with, the ones who go out and look for sheds and when they find a dandy, the first though that comes to there mind is "boy wonder what this one would go for on ebay"!

i totally apologize for making a post such as this one. if i have offended any of you on here, i never meant too. everyone on this site seems to be very respectful, people whom i would get along great with, if we ever met up someday, the last thing i want to do is offend someone or take a direct hit at someone, if i did so please except my apology.

Pete

 

[5465]

maybe it's the way i was raised, and when it comes to hunting, nothing beats talking to the ol' timers about it. up until my dad got sick all the people in my hunting party with the exception of 1(other than myself) was over 58. so when it came to hunting season, i was never around anybody but ol' timers or atleast people close to that classification, my whole hunting career! this stuff was just completely unheard of to them when they were in there prime hunting ages, then everything was passed down to me and maybe that's why i'm so hard headed about it! who knows? once again, i apologize!!!

 

[kansasbowhunter]

My hats off to everyone on this issue!!!

For me, this is a support group that helps keep me in line. I may not respond to every post, however, I do read every post which keeps me conscious of how different we all are and helps keep me in check... There are only a few sites that I post on and this by far is my favorite. There is a large array of people that post here from different geographic regions, different ages and complete different backgrounds!!!! Let's all learn from each other and grow together!!!

Now, I think it is time for Kat to get that group hug started!!!

Mark....