madplotter
PMA Member
Is anyone implementing strategies to try to minimize the effects EHD in 2025? Maybe we could start a thread sharing ideas?
EHD deer health strategies?
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madplotter
PMA Member
Does anyone put out treated rub areas for deer similar to what we do for cattle? Permethrin treated rub areas around mineral sites?
CottonwoodCanyon
Well-Known Member
Because deer move so much more than cattle I don't think treating an area would have much effect. The ROI just isn't there.
Supposedly the ingredients in Anilogics products mimic the vaccine that cattle get and names like Lakosky see results when fed in large quantities. Garlic can keep midges at bay. I've seen guys discuss trying to put Ivermectin in their mineral/feed. I don't know if there's a definitive answer other than just trying to keep deer as healthy as possible.
Supposedly the ingredients in Anilogics products mimic the vaccine that cattle get and names like Lakosky see results when fed in large quantities. Garlic can keep midges at bay. I've seen guys discuss trying to put Ivermectin in their mineral/feed. I don't know if there's a definitive answer other than just trying to keep deer as healthy as possible.
booneriverbucks
PMA Member
I was planning on just trying this
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Unfortunately & fortunately, I’ve probably spent 100’s to 1000’s of hours on this subject with studies, veterinarians, biologists, deer breeders & trying different things. & 20 years in med field, I just understand the studies, data & different thoughts & approaches…. I’ll go off top of my head & try to explain opinions vs data vs “off label hypothetical” vs what I’ve personally seen & believe….
Throw permethrin out the window. Fogging, treating water or massive area treatment. Midge life cycle is too fast & their fly/drift range with wind is too large. The only way this would work is to fly like 10 sq mile area & do it every couple days which is completely impractical of course. Can’t rely on rub posts with permethrin like cattle. Cattle u can get to get it all over them & they so easy to concentrate to that one area. Deer it’s far harder. They have those rollers next to a corn feeder they’ve tried in deer. It was for reducing tick population (Lymes disease) … that works to some extent but I personally don’t see it wildly effective to get it on deer.
If one wanted to really solve this…. Cattle in area would be treated with ivermectin or moxidectin. There’s some studies questioning the effectiveness of ivermectin on killing the midge but IMHO - it’s effective & There’s a ton of data on other insects like ticks. Ivermectin & tick reduction have been documented.
CATTLE are the carriers of the virus. WHERE THIS STARTS!!! There’s about 5 likely strains of BT & EHD deer have been hit with (far more serotypes than that but 5 that impact deer & iowa is down to 2 strains that have been the most problematic). Those 2 serotypes of ehd have been the main problem in iowa since 2012. They very likely came from the moving of cattle from other locations. Those serotypes came to the US from asia & Africa decades ago & got into cattle. First documented case of ehd in Wild deer was 1950’s but probably here far earlier. Cattle will show sometimes - no symptoms, or have a cold. BT will be far more lethal to cattle. Reverse in deer.
Cattle create mud holes, salty stagnant water but it’s their bodies carrying the virus that is the HUGE issue. EHD will start with one infected cow being bitten & spread like wildfire once it infects next animal. Why it’s regional. Higher cattle densities & more cattle shipped in that aren’t local- more ehd.
Ive got one farm with “high dollar cattle” around me. They use ivermectin or other dectins no less than 2x year. Insanely minor amount of EHD. Go by a few farms I know or had by cattle feed yards…. Insane the frequency & intensity of ehd. Some cattle yard places …. I’ve seen deer have significant deer losses literally every year since 2012. I wouldn’t own a farm bordering a cattle yard in any circumstance.
Ivermectin or others like it do 2 very important things…. Ivermectin is effective for INFLAMMATION. Why so many use it in covid (whether u agree or not, I personally do). Covid is virus that also causes inflammation. Tons of studies/data on ivermectin & inflammation. BIG. EHD = inflammation!!! Next: biting insects die from biting an animal that has ivermectin in system. Again, mixed data or lack of data on midges but robust data on many insects. Cydectin lasts longer & bit better data. Breaking the cycle by killing biting insects is a
Key is stopping the wild fire if one could magically do it. I’d argue they do, data is mixed. It won’t stop an animal from getting infected if biten by a midge that’s carrying virus but that midge likely will die. If cattle are treated, chance goes down substantially a midge lives to bite another animal.
One can look at videos online of guys using for deer but that would be off label & I won’t comment. In a magical world, I’d love to use it as I believe it’s incredibly effective. It’s cheap and easy.
The other approaches: minerals with garlic & sulfur. Both do the same things: reduce inflammation, increase vascularity (blood flow to cool system) & both give off a body odor to deter insects. Minerals have all sorts of benefits. General health to unique ones like Cobalt/B vitamins helping fight off impacts of ehd. Healthier animals of course can deal with ehd better. Next tier down by a lot… cleaner water sources, steeper pond banks, more clean water areas & less mud/stagnant water. Or in perfect world: no cattle for countless miles.
Also - Anilogics has a lot of value there too… it contains encapsulated garlic (no odor) & they get oils to MIMIC how a vaccine would work. The last part of how an oil mimics a vaccine is way above my head & I can’t explain that one but it has been explained to me
Reality or bottom line: absolutely things we can do to reduce or minimize it. The long term answer will be resistance/immunity that’s built in the herd. Maternal antibodies are passed down! 25 years ago, where I hunted in KS got wiped out. Fast forward to today- it’s MINOR & extremely minimal. We likely are “past the hump” if u have had several outbreaks or find a few dead deer every year. It’s in the system & as long as a new serotype doesn’t pop up…. We are likely headed to resistance My best guess, 10-15 years we won’t notice a ton of it. If you have NOT been hit ever- those are cases/regions I’d be worried about the most.
We can keep this going & above is the rant on my phone off top of my head and don’t wanna put anyone to sleep.
Link I’ve seen many times…. Informational purposes & not what I’m telling someone to do or not to do …
www.deerfriendly.com
Reducing ticks & how they do it in TX: https://nri.tamu.edu/media/3389/ivermectin-use-in-south-texas-el-sauz-ranch-1.pdf
entomologytoday.org
Mixed data on ivermectin & midges….
Throw permethrin out the window. Fogging, treating water or massive area treatment. Midge life cycle is too fast & their fly/drift range with wind is too large. The only way this would work is to fly like 10 sq mile area & do it every couple days which is completely impractical of course. Can’t rely on rub posts with permethrin like cattle. Cattle u can get to get it all over them & they so easy to concentrate to that one area. Deer it’s far harder. They have those rollers next to a corn feeder they’ve tried in deer. It was for reducing tick population (Lymes disease) … that works to some extent but I personally don’t see it wildly effective to get it on deer.
If one wanted to really solve this…. Cattle in area would be treated with ivermectin or moxidectin. There’s some studies questioning the effectiveness of ivermectin on killing the midge but IMHO - it’s effective & There’s a ton of data on other insects like ticks. Ivermectin & tick reduction have been documented.
CATTLE are the carriers of the virus. WHERE THIS STARTS!!! There’s about 5 likely strains of BT & EHD deer have been hit with (far more serotypes than that but 5 that impact deer & iowa is down to 2 strains that have been the most problematic). Those 2 serotypes of ehd have been the main problem in iowa since 2012. They very likely came from the moving of cattle from other locations. Those serotypes came to the US from asia & Africa decades ago & got into cattle. First documented case of ehd in Wild deer was 1950’s but probably here far earlier. Cattle will show sometimes - no symptoms, or have a cold. BT will be far more lethal to cattle. Reverse in deer.
Cattle create mud holes, salty stagnant water but it’s their bodies carrying the virus that is the HUGE issue. EHD will start with one infected cow being bitten & spread like wildfire once it infects next animal. Why it’s regional. Higher cattle densities & more cattle shipped in that aren’t local- more ehd.
Ive got one farm with “high dollar cattle” around me. They use ivermectin or other dectins no less than 2x year. Insanely minor amount of EHD. Go by a few farms I know or had by cattle feed yards…. Insane the frequency & intensity of ehd. Some cattle yard places …. I’ve seen deer have significant deer losses literally every year since 2012. I wouldn’t own a farm bordering a cattle yard in any circumstance.
Ivermectin or others like it do 2 very important things…. Ivermectin is effective for INFLAMMATION. Why so many use it in covid (whether u agree or not, I personally do). Covid is virus that also causes inflammation. Tons of studies/data on ivermectin & inflammation. BIG. EHD = inflammation!!! Next: biting insects die from biting an animal that has ivermectin in system. Again, mixed data or lack of data on midges but robust data on many insects. Cydectin lasts longer & bit better data. Breaking the cycle by killing biting insects is a
Key is stopping the wild fire if one could magically do it. I’d argue they do, data is mixed. It won’t stop an animal from getting infected if biten by a midge that’s carrying virus but that midge likely will die. If cattle are treated, chance goes down substantially a midge lives to bite another animal.
One can look at videos online of guys using for deer but that would be off label & I won’t comment. In a magical world, I’d love to use it as I believe it’s incredibly effective. It’s cheap and easy.
The other approaches: minerals with garlic & sulfur. Both do the same things: reduce inflammation, increase vascularity (blood flow to cool system) & both give off a body odor to deter insects. Minerals have all sorts of benefits. General health to unique ones like Cobalt/B vitamins helping fight off impacts of ehd. Healthier animals of course can deal with ehd better. Next tier down by a lot… cleaner water sources, steeper pond banks, more clean water areas & less mud/stagnant water. Or in perfect world: no cattle for countless miles.
Also - Anilogics has a lot of value there too… it contains encapsulated garlic (no odor) & they get oils to MIMIC how a vaccine would work. The last part of how an oil mimics a vaccine is way above my head & I can’t explain that one but it has been explained to me
Reality or bottom line: absolutely things we can do to reduce or minimize it. The long term answer will be resistance/immunity that’s built in the herd. Maternal antibodies are passed down! 25 years ago, where I hunted in KS got wiped out. Fast forward to today- it’s MINOR & extremely minimal. We likely are “past the hump” if u have had several outbreaks or find a few dead deer every year. It’s in the system & as long as a new serotype doesn’t pop up…. We are likely headed to resistance My best guess, 10-15 years we won’t notice a ton of it. If you have NOT been hit ever- those are cases/regions I’d be worried about the most.
We can keep this going & above is the rant on my phone off top of my head and don’t wanna put anyone to sleep.
Link I’ve seen many times…. Informational purposes & not what I’m telling someone to do or not to do …
Deer Friendly - ivomec and garlic for tick control on deer
Advice from a deer farmer on how to control ticks on deer using Ivomec (Ivermectin) and garlic The dosage rate we use is 250ml of Ivomec (pour-on) per ton of feed [6 ml per pint of water for 50 pounds of food]. We prep the feed in the following manner. Using a small spray bottle, we mix 12 ml of
www.deerfriendly.com
Feeding Deer Corn With Tick-Control Drug Shows Promise in New Study
A proof-of-concept study shows the potential of feeding white-tailed deer corn treated with moxidectin, a derivative of ivermectin that eliminates ticks.
entomologytoday.org
Mixed data on ivermectin & midges….
booneriverbucks
PMA Member
That’s all pretty interesting and from what I know all very true. Midges in addition to flies, mosquitoes etc. although not individually hard to kill are still very hard to kill on a mass scale.. that being said if anybody wants to attempt to spray a 10 mile by 10 mile area please pm me! might even throw in an Iowawhitetail discount!
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might even throw in an Iowawhitetail discount! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Wi transplant
PMA Member
One thing i recently saw that was very interesting is that dragon flys eat midges and dragon fly larvea eat midges also . So encouraging dragon flys to use your ponds and natural water holes could definitely help naturaly !
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Thinkin Rut
PMA Member
In addition to these treatments, we use powdered garlic in our feed at the rate of 2# per ton of feed throughout the year. I find it to be very effective in reducing ticks and the animals do not seem to mind the taste.Link I’ve seen many times…. Informational purposes & not what I’m telling someone to do or not to do …
Deer Friendly - ivomec and garlic for tick control on deer
Advice from a deer farmer on how to control ticks on deer using Ivomec (Ivermectin) and garlic The dosage rate we use is 250ml of Ivomec (pour-on) per ton of feed [6 ml per pint of water for 50 pounds of food]. We prep the feed in the following manner. Using a small spray bottle, we mix 12 ml ofReducing ticks & how they do it in TX: https://nri.tamu.edu/media/3389/ivermectin-use-in-south-texas-el-sauz-ranch-1.pdf
I wonder what this would equate to adding garlic to 100 lbs of mineral? Apples to oranges.
Wi transplant
PMA Member
1.6 0z. Per 100 lbs
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Thinkin Rut
PMA Member
Yes, and that didn't seem like much to me. I'm sure at some point they would turn their nose up
DannoBoone
New Member
Each year, usually in early August, dragon flys swarm our area close to the ground. Skeeters freak out and fly out of the grass. The dragons can actually be seen grabbing and sucking the life out of the skeeters, then dropping what's left, then on to the next. The skeeters that manage to get above the dragons are then attacked by swallows which take advantage of the dragon swarm. It's an amazing sight. One day we can be eaten up by skeeters and the next, you can hardly find one. Would like to observe them doing the same to midges.