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? for Iowa hunters

Shovelbuck

Active Member
I hope you guy's can help me out with this question. I got in an arguement today about the big bucks you guy's have. I said that one of the reasons for the good large buck numbers in Iowa is because high power rifles aren't allowed during firearm season. He said that has no bearing on it at all. My thinking on this is that it stops the 300 yd. plus shots at at some of the good bucks, thus letting more grow to maturity. I realize this is just one peice of the equasion for your outstanding deer but I feel it's a definate part. What do you think?
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I would agree with you that the lack of high power rifles is one component in growing bigger bucks. We also don't have a gun season during the rut, like other surrounding states do. In my unscientific opinion, this is even more salient.

I can think of no reason that northern Missouri shouldn't produce more big bucks than sothern Iowa, but it seems like you always hear about the southern Iowa bucks.

Also, there is an ever increasing amount of land that is being "managed", if in no other way than not shooting little bucks all the time. This is an ethic that seems to exist in pockets though. There are still places where seemingly everyone has to shoot a buck, even if he is 1 1/2 year old youngster. Shooting a doe is looked down upon in these areas.

One area that I hunt, that historically has and still does receive heavy hunting pressure, has changed quite a bit through the years. There has always been a healthy number of deer, but 10-12 years ago when everyone around would drop every buck that they could, you would be lucky to see a buck over 130" every 2-3 years. Nowadays, with not much else different other than most, but not even all, of the area hunters laying off the 6-points, etc. I commonly see 2-5 bucks every year that are over 130".
 
you hit the nail on the coffen their... I know I would have taken some real bruisers if I could use a rifle. Also real good genes and good mangament by the DNR play a part..
 
after reading your question i had my answer all planned out and then i read davers reply, i couldn't agree more with everything he wrote.
 
I discussed the big bucks in Iowa situation with Lee Gladfelter who was our state deer biologist for many years before his untimely death. He felt a key compontent was the timing of the gun season. States like Nebraska, Missouri and Wisconsin with gun seasons in take their top bucks before they get to do much of the breeding. States like Iowa, Illinois and Kansas with later gun seasons have the top bucks doing the breeding before the gun season starts. Lee's idea was that the quality of the bucks was impacted over the long run.
 
It's been a few years ago but Deer and Deer Hunting magazine had a article that basically backed up what Oldbuck stated--states that did not allow gun hunting during November (rut time) were producing the biggest bucks.

Doug
 
I agree with everything said here especially the gun season in December. One other theory that I have is Iowa Deer, mainly big bucks, are smarter. We just have one of the best education systems in the country. I should know since I've been chasing the same big boy for the last 3 years. I did get a glimpse of him in velvet earlier this year and looks to be a big 14 pointer. Maybe this is the year he makes a mistake.

Ryan
 
Wisconsin's gun deer season is not held in concurrence with the rut. However, some seasons, the deer are still rutting when the gun season starts, which is the Saturday before Thanksgiving. But for the most part, the vast majority of the rut is over, giving the better, more mature bucks a chance to spread their genes.
 
How many bucks would survive to maturity in Iowa if we had gun season during the rut, guns that would reach out 400 yards? Say what you will but the evidence is in the record books.
 
I would agree with the slug gun vs. rifle explanation IF it weren't for Kansas. It seems like every big deer I see in a magazine anymore comes from that state. Kansas does have the December gun season in common with Iowa, so I might lend more weight to that factor. But they use rifles there, too, and it doesn't seem to hurt their big buck numbers.

I think the two biggest problems we have in North Missouri are 1) Shooting too many young bucks, and 2) Poaching.

To me, the gun season in the rut hurts the overall buck numbers more so than it does the mature buck numbers. The majority of bucks taken here during rifle season are 18 months old. After that, I would say the remaining vast majority of bucks taken are under 3 1/2. So overall, we are really taking a small percentage of the mature deer out of the herd each year. Putting such a big dent in the young buck numbers simply eliminates the number of deer which have a chance to get big. I know there are still a lot of really big deer around, we see them in the summer and during bow season. Very few of these deer get taken, legally, during the rifle season. The big boys just learn how to hide, most hunters settle for a small buck, and the big boys make it another season. I don't lend much weight to the argument that shooting a big buck during the rut has a devastating impact on the overall quality of the gene pool, but I am no biologist. Aren't genetics just that? Are they like wine in that they improve with age. If a genetically superior buck is the sire of an 18 month old deer that breeds, isn't he still passing on superior genetics? I've also heard that the doe's genetics matter equally as well, but I don't know for sure.

There are so many does here that the big bucks aren't doing all of the breeding anyway. Actually, in the past few years, the "chase" phase of the rut has been over by gun season anyway. You might jump a buck with a doe, but the crazy phase is usually at least a week prior. The old bucks still do most of their moving at night. In theory, if we could somehow capture the ten biggest live bucks currently roaming Missouri and Iowa, I think they would be pretty comparable in terms of antler size. So, I think the genetics are pretty decent. We simply don't have as many of them because we kill so many young bucks who are running hells bells all over the place because the rut is in full swing during the gun season. Until the MDC (Missouri Department of Conservation) implements some sort of QDM, limits the total number of hunters, or hunters change their ways, we will continue to have the problem.

Around my hunting area, my other major concern is poaching. Many, and I do mean many, of the biggest deer we attempt to hunt are taken out of the herd prior to gun season by poachers. I don't know if you guys have the same problem up there, but it gets old finding 250 lb. - 300 lb. carcasses with no head during bow season. We have a definite epidemic of big buck poaching and that has a major effect on the number of deer that get entered into the "book". One example is two years ago a friend and I were hunting a deer we thought would gross between 180 & 190 typical as a 10 pointer. We hunted him during bow season but never got a shot. We hunted him very hard during gun season and saw hide nor hair of him. Come to find out he had been killed on the Wed. night BEFORE gun season. He netted 186 typical. How do I know that, because the poachers had the audacity to check him in opening morning, stiff as a board. They were so bold as to bring a picture of him with them to the check station when they brought their mom to town to buy a tag so she could check him in. I later found out through the grape vine where & when they had killed him. That is not the first time it's happened, won't be the last, happens all the time. The most discouraging thing is that the poachers are well known, have even been in and out of jail, but just won't stop. We have just tried to move as far from their normal poaching area as possible, which worked last year as I got lucky and took a 190" non-typical. (By the way, he was by himself and headed for heavy cover at first light.)

Anyway, I've gone on long enough, sorry for the long post. You just touched on a subject that I am very passionate about, more big bucks to hunt. I don't know what Missouri's answer is, but I do know that I am contemplating moving to Kansas and buying a farm in Iowa!
 
rhino
I know exactly what you are talking about. The past couple of years have been horrible with the poaching activity around my family hunting area here in Iowa. It seems like the biggest bucks are the ones that get poached with rifles during the rut.....it is absolutely disgusting. My family also owns land in Northern Mo and we have steadily watched as the number of nice bucks have dropped. My uncle and one of our hunting buddies didn't even see any nice bucks during rifle season last year. It is really sad considering some of the biggest, most impressive bucks have come from our land in Mo....but that was over ten years ago.
Good luck and good hunting!

-GunnerJon
 
I feel if more hunters would put their ego aside and shot a nice healthy doe and let the little fellas grow big, we would all be better off. We live in one of the best whitetail states but that will not continue if more hunters don't start showing a little restraint.
 
I think the timing is far more important than the weapon. You could make a case that a rifle would impact the number of big bucks killed, but it would be small in comparison to the timing of the season. I believe that one of the main factors is that we do not have our gun season during the rut. I believe another is the fact that southern Iowa not only has superb habitat, but that most of it is on private land.
 
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