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Landowner property line question? Off topic

Waukon1

Waukon1

Well-Known Member
This is off topic but I figure there are quite a few landowners on here.

Here is the situation: There is a fence between land A and land B. Because of ditches, etc, the fence does not follow the exact surveyed line. Both landowners at the time the fence was put in agreed to put it where it is currently at.

The question is, can the new landowner B cut trees on landowner A's side of the fence because they fall with in the survey stakes of landowner B's property?
Sound confusing?

Any knowledge on this would be helpful. Thanks.
 
As explained to me by Maury, as I have a similar situation, if the fence has been used as the edge of your property it becomes the property line according to laws of Iowa. Be it a fence, hedge, row of trees or just where you and your neighbor mow your lawn. Has a legal term that escapes me right now. If I remember correctly both parties have to agree to put the fence back to the surveyed line. As for the harvesting of trees I'd contact your attorney for for a definite answer Waukon 1.

AGS
 
I think if the fence is left in one spot for 10 or more years undisputed it redraws the property line. Not sure if it has to be ten years for sure or any other guidelnes or loopholes but thats what I've heard.
 
It doesn't matter where the fence line or tree line or whatter else is at. They are NOT the property line. The property line is on a straight line between two property line stakes.
 
If a fence has been in place long enough it WILL determine a line. Not always a straight line as 150 Class suggested.

Look at your plat of survey from when you bought the property and see if they show the fence being "off line".

Get a surveyor and have the problem resolved.

Pupster
 
As others have stated a fence can and will determine a property line. Pupster is right on the money, if the property has been surveyed and there is a Plat of Survey which shows the location of the fence in relationship to the actual property line you are probably in good shape. Another thing to consider is whether or not the people involved in building the the fence at it's current location would testify that the fence was bulit as a convenience fence, and was not built to represent the location of the property line. Send me a PM if you have any other questions.
 
I was under the impression that if a fence exists for 7 years, it becomes the property line. I know person who just found out a fence line was not down the "property" line. It would have been a legal battle to get it moved, one he opted not to pursue. The two parties can go to the county seat and get it in writing that the fence is not on the line and that both parties agree to the "real" property line. Maybe the time for that has past since you are already having troubles over trees. Someone is not likely to agree now. The other thing about fences is the right hand rule. Stand on your property facing the fence. The right hand half of the fence is your responsiblity to maintain. Again, any variances to this should be recorded at the county seat for future reference.
 
I beleive the term is adverse possesion, and if either property has changed ownership then the fence was accepted as the boundry. If this is a question of cutting trees for fire wood or clearing a simple agreement between the owners could save a big problem. If it involves logging and timber money I beleive that the fence becomes the property line.
 
The fence was put in 3.5 years ago in almost the exact same spots at the one it replaced.

BIGHOLE I was there putting in the fence. It was put where it lays do to ditches repeatedly getting washed out every spring.

Survey was done within the last year. I believe that it is hard to line up the stakes by eyeballing it because of hills etc.

Side B who recently bought his side, to my knowledge does not want to move the fence at this time, he just wants to log trees on side A's side because he believes that they are his trees because of the survey stakes.

So the question is can he log those trees???
 
You definately need to get a surveyor involved.

If the fence was not placed on the property line and everyone is aware of that, then yes, he probably will be entitled to those tress on the other side of the fence since it isn't the line.

BIGHOLE is a surveyor and I work for one, and you'll find every situation is different. If you involve the professionals it will save you a lot of headaches.

Pupster
 
Bighole, Pupster, Ironwood, et al- Is this the same situation with gates and access to otherwise landlocked properties? I forget what it was called but when a gate has been in use by prior agreement for many (?) years the easement can't be taken away when property changes hands.
 
These are good questions but in this case you need to read the legal desriptions and the deeds to both properties and read what easments are attached to what properties. Some easements go on the Heirs, succesors and assigned, some don't. It could also be worded as "Perpetual easement" which means it would transfer from one landowner to the next.

It would read similar to "A perpetual easement over and across the following described land....."

I don't pretend to be a proffesional surveyor but always like people to get them involved.

Pupster
 
I went through this battle about 4 years ago. Iowa does have a ten year rule regarding the position of a fence or natural boundary line, survey stakes or not. If that fence had stood there 10 years or more, even if it has been replaced due to the fence wearing out, it will be deemed the new property line, and trying to fight this with lawyers is a losing battle. My best advice is to get with the other landowner, get it straightened out now, and try to get along.
CRITR
 
"acquiescence"

Agreeing without protest.

Such as in a fence that has had no actual survey performed, the landowners quietly agree to the boundary.

The problem is when they don't agree!

Pupster
 
Like Pupster said, we come across these situations more often than I'd like to. Every situation is different, that sounds like a cop out but it's true. Yes, someone will end up mad.

Adverse Possession is a very hard thing to prove in the courts and very seldom are property lines "changed" because of it, Aquiescence on the other hand is much easier to prove, a fenceline maintained in the same location for 10 yrs. is generally looked upon by the courts as being the property line. My best advice is to get the Land Surveyor who set the pins at the property corners to set some intermediate points that are intervisible from point to point, leaving no question about the location of the property line in relationship to the fenceline.

Keep in mind that Land Surveyors establish Deed Lines, courts determine Property Lines. The difference between the two is that a Surveyor will survey property as it is described in the deed. If the deed does not agree with physical evidence such as fences, roads, or rivers and those physical items are what have been assumed to be the property line, this is when problems occur. In short, physical evidence and deed lines are in two different locations, if the property owners can't resolve it on their own and it turns ugly, then the court will decide where the line belongs.

Hopefully I have not made this more confusing. Best of luck resolving this one.
 
The last time I bought farm land the survey showed that the legally described property line was 26 feet west of the fence. It appeared there was not much to do about this as the current fence location had been established for some time, over 10 years. I am not sure if this became a permanent easement for the improvement (fence) or the new property line. In residential real estate I am pretty sure it is a permanent easement after the improvements have been in place for 10 years but does not redefine the property lines.
 
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