loneranger
Well-Known Member
How many bucks would you say would be optimal to harvest off of 600 acres per season? How many would be too many? Thanks...
Managing DEER?
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Matthewfox_45
Well-Known Member
There's a ton of variables here. Deer density, buck to doe ratio, and age structure just to name a few. That's just herd dynamics, habitat also plays a critical role. Without knowing any of the previously stated items, you can't really speculate.
6x6
PMA Member
^^^^This, some farms may only be able to produce 1 mature buck per year, others may need 10 or more taken out per year, to allow the better younger bucks to stay around to maturity.
loneranger
Well-Known Member
Yea,,I thot of that. A lot of variables. Just wondering. There is 600 acres across the road from me. A person has the hunting rights to it. He is having paying hunters hunt it. He told me how many hunters he had on it past season and how many bucks they got. My area is not huge for mature bucks or total deer numbers, for that matter. Guess I should ask HIM, how he comes up with numbers.
loneranger
Well-Known Member
Mostly timber and hay fields. Some beans here and there. Is basically a cattle farm over a large portion of it. Like I said, not a lot of deer in my area to begin with.
"PAID HUNTERS" - I'd bet my farm they are not shooting majority "mature bucks". 5+. I could be wrong but I'd be astounded if so. If managed right & great habitat- u could kill 3-8 mature bucks depending on the land. My guess is the majority of bucks paid hunters kill are not 5. IMO, I'd guess majority will be 2-4 yr olds. Heaviest on good gen 3 yr olds.
Oct-Lull
Well-Known Member
I hunted a 550 acre farm for 5 years. There were several guys hunting it. At least 3 bucks 31/2 and older were killed each year. Some years 4. That farm went to hell in that 5 years. It is terrible now and the guys that still hunt it rarely see mature deer. Not sure if that is the reason as the other hunters also decided to ride 4 wheeler everywhere and stop walking. That I believe hurt worse. 41/2 and older dont take pressure. I would think if I owned 600 acres I wouldn't want more than 2/mature bucks a year. And, make sure to not overlook those short tines aggressive older bucks that dont look like a giant, but they run the show and keep other mature deer out. Sometimes one buck like that can really change the dynamic.
Oct-Lull
Well-Known Member
Killing a bunch of 3 year olds seems like the fastest way to set a farm back.
With that said, from my experience 1-3 mature bucks over a given year on land Ive seen that fit that description. Some years I've seen ground like that have "no mature bucks" that I have located or worth hunting. If they r lucky enough to tag 3 fully mature bucks out there- that would be pretty big. I'd suspect again, if they did shoot 3 or whatever - most are not 5+
I agree with oct-lull above post!!
hoosierhunter
Active Member
He has no number. It's only dollars and cents to him. The more he kills the more money he makes.
I have no personal bad feelings towards outfitters. I am friends with a few. Some good guys, some not good.
MOST, when it comes to management- NIGHTMARE & I literally would sell my farm if they were next to me because we'd be on 180 degrees different pages and my goals would never be accomplished simply because we have different goals. IMO I manage better BUT they have every right to do what they want on their side. I just don't want them bordering me or close by. disaster for mature deer. SOMEWHAT in outfitters defense- they have a "140 minimum"- guys shoots the best "130 2 yr old on farm".... If they try and fine em guy says "well I'll never come back then". No excuse but a paid hunter has no interest in future management & outfitters r in a tough spot when guys r in camp that paid a lot and almost "must leave with a buck". Group I knew In Illinois had no restrictions- when it came to last day for most clients- I saw em take a lot of 1.5 yr olds just to "get one". IMO- management for good genetic old bucks and outfitting do not mix well.
MOST, when it comes to management- NIGHTMARE & I literally would sell my farm if they were next to me because we'd be on 180 degrees different pages and my goals would never be accomplished simply because we have different goals. IMO I manage better BUT they have every right to do what they want on their side. I just don't want them bordering me or close by. disaster for mature deer. SOMEWHAT in outfitters defense- they have a "140 minimum"- guys shoots the best "130 2 yr old on farm".... If they try and fine em guy says "well I'll never come back then". No excuse but a paid hunter has no interest in future management & outfitters r in a tough spot when guys r in camp that paid a lot and almost "must leave with a buck". Group I knew In Illinois had no restrictions- when it came to last day for most clients- I saw em take a lot of 1.5 yr olds just to "get one". IMO- management for good genetic old bucks and outfitting do not mix well.
loneranger
Well-Known Member
I think I agree with you when $ is involved, quality may take a back seat. You want customers, and you want happy customers. Most hunters just want somthin, anything. Especially if thy come from States where all they see are spikes and does.
HorseDoctor
PMA Member
Sounds like a very good possibility that the area will stay "not huge for mature bucks or total deer numbers" if there is money driven pay for play operation across the road. At the risk of stirring up the leasing kerfuffle, if you are serious about mature deer, your options might include buying/leasing the ground away from the outfitter or selling your place & moving on.
loneranger
Well-Known Member
This land is not the only land around me of coarse. Actually,,for some reason, since this operation has come in across the road I have seen MORE bucks on my land. True,,most are two yr olds, but overall,,I have seen more deer. Possibly a lot of poaching was going on before? Possibly more activity over there has chased deer my way? My hunting experience does not measure up to other areas in Iowa, I have found out,,but still a whole lot better than where I came from. I am satisfied. As I get older hunting fever is growing less anyway.
Daver
PMA Member
Actually, I know which parcel of land Ed is referring to and I also know the outfitter that leases it pretty well. Hoosier, in this case, I think you are jumping to conclusions prematurely. This outfitter is the most diligent one I know in terms of NOT over-harvesting lands that he owns or leases. There are some places that he leases that no hunters even go on in a given year and I have never known him to "burn up" a place with too many hunters, etc.
He actually leased a neighboring farm to me for a couple of years and the only hunters that were ever in it were specifically there for doe control in the late season. I'll take an outfitter like that next to me any time.
I am certainly not here to defend all outfitters, but in this case, I am nearly 100% sure that this property is not being raped, nor would it be in the future, as long as he is controlling it.
Oh, in this case...I would say 4-6 bucks per year could be taken and still keep it good year to year.
hoosierhunter
Active Member
Daver
Your right, my statement is a general assumption regarding outfitting. There are some good ones out there.
Your right, my statement is a general assumption regarding outfitting. There are some good ones out there.
Yep, I think both you 2 (actually 3 with Loneranger) are all correct. We can talk about outfitters "in general" and we'd probably all agree on a stereotype and then all of could probably come up with some folks we know that run an amazing operation. Of course I think the guys that run things "amazing" are rare but they do exist. Totally believe that could be the case here and I'm sure it is with your input. That's good news and maybe why Ed is seeing more deer.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
My guess is that you will see more bucks, because the pressure is forcing deer off that farm on to your farm. Having new guys in and out of there, I think really tips off the mature bucks. They just will not tolerate it, and will find a sanctuary on that farm, or they will move if it is too intense.
Daver
PMA Member
Another factor that most are not aware of here that may well be a contributor to Ed having more nice buck sightings on his place nowadays is that there used to be more dogs on the loose in that neighborhood than there is nowadays too.
Also, the land in question was hunted prior to this current outfitter leasing it and I am almost positive that the pressure there is less these days and I am sure it is more controlled. Also, Ed has done a lot of nice work on his place over the past several years to be a more attractive place too. IMO, it is probably a range of things in combination that would explain the uptick in better buck sightings.