I recently went through a class talking about no till vs tillage practices- it was CRAZY to see the first hand differences in the soils. I would say where we did it, we had some of the best soils in the state and the instructor of the class literally would say "my guess is, this field has been in No Till for "x" years"- and the farmer was like, thats correct. It was an amazing field day class- really opened my eyes up on how truly complex the soil is, and how important it is overall (I used to just think, soil is soil)
Bassattackr
Well-Known Member
I kind of take these with a grain of salt..
I'm curious to see how a once a year tillage for a food plot application compares to these two samples. Keep in mind - Both of these are on the extreme ends of the spectrum (IE - zero till vs multiple times a year commercial ag tillage).
- How many times was the soil tilled (annually) in the right container?
- How recently was the soil sample pulled after tillage? (If I was a BIAS tester, I would pull immediately after tillage!)
Would be neat to compare tilled soil 1 week, 1 month, 6 months and 1 year after tillage to see how quickly nature repairs itself.
Especially since soil microbe populations can double in as little as 15 minutes..
I'm curious to see how a once a year tillage for a food plot application compares to these two samples. Keep in mind - Both of these are on the extreme ends of the spectrum (IE - zero till vs multiple times a year commercial ag tillage).
- How many times was the soil tilled (annually) in the right container?
- How recently was the soil sample pulled after tillage? (If I was a BIAS tester, I would pull immediately after tillage!)
Would be neat to compare tilled soil 1 week, 1 month, 6 months and 1 year after tillage to see how quickly nature repairs itself.
Especially since soil microbe populations can double in as little as 15 minutes..
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Agree. It’s likely a host of issues …. Even stuff like anhydrous…. Folks have no clue that they are often NUKING earthworms & a lot of the life in that layer of the soil. So- one field u nuke the life with anhydrous & one u don’t…. That alone is gonna be a difference.
I do think that even with some tillage…. Say 2 fields had tillage…. One u put down a rye blend cover crop vs none…. Or had living plants & roots majority of year vs a small portion…. That soil with cover crops will likely be far better as well. It’s not just ONE thing…. Really needs to be a combo…. I try & do 2 of 3 things if I can’t do all 3… 1) no till 2) no anhydrous 3) cover crops or living plants/roots most of year. On top of that: 4) high organic matter manure or compost. If a guy could do all 4….. yikes!!! That’s top shelf.
I put some super rough clay into alfalfa after running Dbltree rotation for 5 years,…. Started off year 1 looking like almost orangish-red clay. Now…. It’s dark black & crumbles in your hand. In 5 years.
Bassattackr
Well-Known Member
All great points! I'm doing the same practice but through once a year tillage, guess we'll find out of that also works (or not! 
).
Another thing I always wonder about (and never discussed) in these situations:
- What are the effects of different herbicides on microbe and earthworm populations?
Very little research on this subject.. (Doubt anyone wants to fund, to find out the truth!)
).Another thing I always wonder about (and never discussed) in these situations:
- What are the effects of different herbicides on microbe and earthworm populations?
Very little research on this subject.. (Doubt anyone wants to fund, to find out the truth!
)
Bucksnbears
Well-Known Member
Interesting topic.
Question, when applying dry fertilizer, how effective is it if not tilled in?
I've always believed you MUST till it in?
Question, when applying dry fertilizer, how effective is it if not tilled in?
I've always believed you MUST till it in?
If u get TREATED UREA…. No need to till and will go right into the soil. Done. Most people till for nitrogen & absolutely not needed. Other options for no till on Nitrogen is: ESN (polymer coated urea), liquid N & terminating legumes that fixed Nitrogen.
P&K are not very mobile in the soil so they do have a better case for tillage and those 2 are usually not thought of as needing tillage. But, better case for p&k tillage vs N.
Putting p&k on top over the years has not created issues for me. My deeper soil tests have plenty of P&K … so I don’t till in.
The problem with both herbicide & fertilizer is often the salt contents. For sure with fertilizer.
On herbicides….. the downside there is the extent that it instantly kills most or all plant life (which we want & ideally have plenty of other crops still growing) & by definition that reduces fungal, microbe & beneficial bacteria in the soil. It can be fixed with more cover crops & more diverse planting & with compost or manure.
If a guy could say “I got 2 downside issues… herbicide & fertilizer…. Which should I fix first?” One route I took (not saying it’s right) is: I switched conventional fertilizer to manure & compost. That made huge difference. It’s not practical for many. The other way to “reduce herbicides” I personally use (again- not saying it’s right or ideal - Just what I do)…. More cover crops & second: PRE-EMERGENTS. Pre-emergents probably have some downside but it often is saving 2 other sprays with more gly, etc.
PRACTICAL & doable for most: 1) NO TILL 2) as much for covers & diversity & over seeding as possible & 3) pre emergents to reduce spray. Is this perfect? No. But it’s heck of a lot better than 90% of ground & it will BUILD soil done right. Going in right direction for sure!!!
Last- I avoid fungicides & insecticides unless it’s worst case rare scenario.
There is practical solutions here!!!! Might be 4-5 things guys can do…. 1 or 2 is better than none!!! Or start with 1 thing and add 2nd & 3rd over time.
tall@wide
PMA Member
When you say treated Urea, do you mean it's coated and will not evaporate? I've always been told by farmers that normal untreated dry Urea has 48 hours or you better get a good rain on it. Treated definitely sounds like the way to go! Is it more expensive?
Bassattackr
Well-Known Member
Ammonium Sulfate (AMS) is a very stable form of Nitrogen. As a bonus, good sulfur content as well.
Can be harder to find than straight or coated Urea though.
Can be harder to find than straight or coated Urea though.
Yea. Agrotain is usually what they treat it with. Anyone on here could spray agrotain on urea if u bought a jug too. Stabilizes it so u can put on top.
Bassattackr
Well-Known Member
Giant can of worms. Myriad of factors - Something that definitely varies by area. For every farmer that outyields for tillage, one outyields for no til. And vice versa.. They both are profitable doing it.
If certain practices, fertilizer amounts, practices increase yield by 20 bpa, but cost twice to do so - Are you still coming out ahead?
Many farmers in my area til for corn but no til beans. So maybe not as straightforward year to year?