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Question on Turkey numbers….

Pops

PMA Member
I’m in southeast Iowa. I’ve seen a gradual decline in turkey numbers over the past 15 plus years and especially over the past 10, Things improved some in 2023 but numbers have apparently dropped over the past year. I feel like I can hunt and see a few birds and hopefully they will not have been hunted hard. I’ll enjoy my time in the woods regardless.
Just curious….what’s going on in your neighborhood.
 
Quit going out west to hunt because there are no more birds - literally went to hunting farms that had 20+ gobblers to maybe 1 if you were lucky. But it is all birds, hens were down 80-90% also, has to be disease.

We were down here in Illinois and IN also but seem to be making a comeback last 3 years
 
I’ve trapped heavily here the past couple years and have A LOT more nesting here and hatching out.
I think there were studies of roundup making eggs infertile?
I do think bobcats are killing lots of birds and nest raiders clean up the eggs/young…
 
No conspiracy theorist but turkey numbers are pathetic in NWMO/SWIA. Major problem somewhere. Easy 20 year low in numbers. I have read articles lately that people taking notice of low bird numbers across board for most part. I’m shocked how few robins are around this spring. When I was younger the starlings and house sparrows were not safe around our farm but now rarely see either. Chemicals, bird flu or neonics IDK but something is up.
 
I've noticed this as well. I really wish the regs would change to eliminate fall season and cut back to one tag in the spring for few years.
 
I think we had distemper come through the raccoon population. Not seeing much sign and found a few dead while shed hunting. I can only hope that this is true. Decent turkey numbers on one property I hunt, picked up a couple of spring archery tags yesterday.
 
I have written several times here about this, FWIW. This subject is near and dear to me. :) We have also seen a dramatic reduction in turkey pops over the years. I would say the drop started about 15'ish years ago. I have long suspected bobcats, at least to a degree, since the decline of the turkey pops coincided perfectly with the rise in bobcat numbers AND we used to find dead, adult turkey carcasses that had been cleaned up by something hungry.

I have had multiple conversations over the years with DNR personnel, et al, and they steadfastly maintain that it isn't due to bobcats...because of some study conducted 20'ish years ago, etc, that showed few, perhaps no, turkeys in the stomachs of harvested cats. I think the study is flawed though because they only examined stomachs from cats taken in the open trapping/hunting season in Pennsylvania I think it was. Whatever, if you think a cat isn't going to hunt and kill a bird, you aren't using your big thinker...IMO. :)

Now then, do bobs catch enough turks to severely drop their population? Hmmm...maybe, maybe not. I do feel like turks are particularly vulnerable to potential cat predation in the late winter time v. say, fall, when there are still plenty of YOY rabbits, squirrels and mice to catch if you are a hungry bob. (Another weakness of the referenced study, IMO.)

Although I know that coons, possums, skunks, etc, can and do destroy whole nests at a time and yes, their pops are generally higher these days due to lower fur prices and less trapping/hunting, etc. However, we have trapped the crap out of these nest raiders in our neighborhood over the past few years and then have seen better turk populations following that. So, I too am persuaded that reducing predators will help...but...our pops are still WELL below the "good ol' days".

So...in addition to the above mentioned factors, I suspect some sort of disease and/or chemical influence TOO. (I really think this is a complex, as in multiple variables, situation, not just ONE thing in isolation that is holding turk pops down from where they once were. Although I don't think I have ever sprayed an insecticide on my farm, herbicides = yes, I see far fewer grasshoppers, and such, these days as to 15+ years ago. For sure, the problem is widespread and not limited to Iowa and northern MO.

I would love to see it change back so I can take my grandkids turkey hunting and have them hear and see many gobbling toms, etc.
 
I dont think you can assess potential environmental issues until you take care of racoon epidemic.
I agree raccoons are some to blame for sure but as Daver mentioned the areas around where I hunt have had their raccoon populations kept in control and are no higher than they were 20 years ago. There is starting to be some information/studies released that environmental issues have an impact. James Kroll was on a podcast discussing significant impacts to poults and birds from the neonics. I think that podcast was shared here.
 
I've heard a couple of friends say their numbers are up significantly after serious and effective (lots) of coon trapping. These are honorable men more or less (Skip is one of them), and I believe them. I heard talk a few years back of about 4-5 bad hatches due to wet and chilly nesting seasons. That sounds good too. A biologist friend talked to another expert on pheasant numbers decline, and how a study on the number of poults (baby pheasants) was discontinued a couple of years ago in south or southeast Iowa. The reason given was due to the very small number of insects available for the birds. They couldn't find enough poults to study. I guess that problem could be blamed on pesticides, loss of habitat due to herbicides, bulldozers, etc. A neighbor and I added about 75 acres of Pollinator and Quail habitat over the last 8-10 years and turkey numbers are down considerably, pheasant numbers have been down but are increasing very slowly I think/hope, and quail numbers have been down, although a couple of coveys have been seen lately. I do know that I can spend a week around my farm and in the woods, plots, riding to town, and not see or hear a bird.
Just thinking out loud. Sorry. I'm enjoying the replies.
 
I have two farms that I hunt close by that are loaded with birds! Bad news I probably won’t get to hunt much this spring if at all.
 
I dont think you can assess potential environmental issues until you take care of racoon epidemic.
100000% agree.

I’ve got a buddy who owns several 100 acres across multiple counties in southern Iowa. All have been heavily trapped over the last 2 seasons. He’s successfully trapping too, killing lots of them. This spring, every single farm he owns is noticeably better in numbers. Noticeably meaning 10x better. Insane the pictures he’s sending me daily.

I was not sold it was coon or pests in general, it’s hard to argue when you see nothing else changing except trapping that’s taking place and see the results……

I wish some of these groups (DU, Delta, pheasants forever, etc) would use some of their money raised locally and create a bounty program to entice everyone to get after these coons. I don’t think it would take too many years for us to see big rebounds in areas where there is good Turkey habitat to begin with.
 
I would Find someone with a thermal and take them through your ground over the next few weeks until you can’t find a coon anymore, and then don’t be surprised when you shoot just as many coons again next year. Burn brush piles when you can safely do it, and get a few coon cuffs. Come fall set a 20 pack of snares in right of ways on your way to work and you’ll be amazed how many coyotes and bobcats are out there.
I have a friend that set 5 coon cuffs within 100 yards of his house 2 years ago and just kept killing and resetting. After about 2 months he had caught 89 coons in those 5 traps. This last year he ended up with around 60, this is in addition to the countless coons he’s shot when he’s had the opportunity.
Last year in March I found a spot where I would say with 99% certainty a bobcat caught a turkey, feathers everywhere but the most concentrated area of feathers there was a big circle of bean stubble scratched in a circle like a cat had tried burying turkey remains.
In my opinion cats ,coons , and other nest predators ( probably in that order) are 90% of the problem.
 
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