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SPEED vs SOUND

moosehunter

moosehunter

PMA Member
OK. So I'm reading the "new Bowtech" thread and the speed issue starts knawing on me. So I did a little cipherin and here's what I came up with.

The speed of sound is about 1130 FPS (depending on elevation). 1130 FPS is still over three times faster than the fastest bow.

If I'm sitting in a tree stand and 25 yards away is a deer and I snap my fingers the deer will here it .022 seconds later.

If I shoot an arrow from a bow that shoots 300 FPS at the same distance, the arrow will hit the deer .083 seconds later.

If I shoot an arrow from a bow that shoots 320 FPS at the same distance, the arrow will hit the deer .078 seconds later.

So just by going with that math, the diference of time it took the arrow to travel that distance between the two bows was only .005 seconds. I'm not sure what distance .005 represents between the two arrows but it can't be too far. Maybe the length of an arrow.

I'm not an engineer or anything but I don't think a fast bow (310 - 330) would be a huge advantage over a slower bow (280 - 300) if your talking about speed. Other factors prolly figure in too like greater distance and kinetic energy.

I think a quiet bow would be a bit more deadly than a fast one. What do ya think?
 
When I upgraded last season and converted from fingers to release, I was much more concerned about forgiveness and quietness of a bow. I settled on a Ross CR 337 (IBO rating about 305??) since it had a generous brace height @ 7.75 inches as well as a longer axle-to-axle configuration. I guess I figured the shooter will "underperform" much more often than the weapon when it comes to archery so I wanted as many variables on my side when it came to shooting form.

So far, the Ross is very shootable and very quiet. I also went after some lighter arrows to make up for the slower IBO rating on my bow so I bought some Carbon Express Maxima 350's @ 8.2 GPI and dropped the Beman ICS Hunters @ 9.3 GPI. If I remember correct, the arrow upgrade got me around 10 FPS increase. Overall, I think I am getting around 260 FPS (about 60 lbs. KE) in my hunting setup and it is pretty quiet.

I am sure some of the new bows shoot great but I am very content with my current setup.
 
0.05 second difference, would it really matter unless you were talking about quiet (like- silent and not heard by the deer) vs quieter than the fast noisy bow? The sound from your snapping your fingers and the sound from a cherry bomb get to the deer at the same time so if they hear either one, they have a chance to react. I like your thinking but I'm not sure either makes that much difference unless it is quiet enough not to be heard.
 
Ok, so my math wasn't correct the first time, I doubled up on the time and it made the difference look really really really small. Basically it boils down to the 320 fps bow traveling about 1.6ft farther than the 300 fps bow in 0.005 sec, that would be a decent distance but still nothing major. However this would be the time frame for an arrow to travel 20ft.

However, if you take into account that a 320 fps bow will shoot 20yds =60ft in 0.1875 s and a 300fps bow will travel that distance in 0.20 s then you have a difference of 0.0125. Basically if the two are compared on the same time scale the 320fps bow will travel about 4ft farther than the 300fps bow during an average deer shot (based on the time it takes the 300fps bow to travel 60 ft).

When Compared to a 250fps bow then you have the 320fps bow traveling about 17ft farther (based on the time it takes a 250fps bow to travel 60ft)

Still not a huge difference if your bow is super quiet and doesn't drop the string, but as Liv pointed out the faster bow is significantly flatter and I think this is where the advantage may come in a bit
 
Your reasoning/physics are correct. The difference I would argue is in the response. If someone snaps their fingers across the room you may turn and look, however if a cherry bomb goes off you jump out of your skin. The speed of the sound may be the same but the response is not the same. No different with deer. I would take 275 fps bow that is very quiet over a 320 fps bow that is noisy.
 
My mistake on decimal point, I didn't look close because I was just going with Moosehunter. My point was really to exaggerate the noise factor- go with a finger snap vs lightly clapping your hands once. Not enough to make you jump out of your skin (unless you are a mature buck) but depending on the moment, either may make you flinch or move. If Kratz is right (I believe his math) then there really is no difference except for a really really quiet slower bow as long as it was in that 300fps range.
 
I think the speed bows are just a pleasure to shoot at the bow range. It sure helps you score when you are few yards off the distance and a flatter trajectory. I also think most people blame deer that jump the arrow on the bow and not them. I dont think I have ever had a deer even remotely come close to "jumping the string" when it had no clue I was there. It is the deer that are looking at you in the flight or fight mode that jump the string. I also am currently inventing a bow that clucks like a turkey upon the release, just to make millions....:)
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LIV4RUT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the speed bows are just a pleasure to shoot at the bow range. It sure helps you score when you are few yards off the distance and a flatter trajectory. I also think most people blame deer that jump the arrow on the bow and not them. I dont think I have ever had a deer even remotely come close to "jumping the string" when it had no clue I was there. It is the deer that are looking at you in the flight or fight mode that jump the string. I also am currently inventing a bow that clucks like a turkey upon the release, just to make millions....:) </div></div>

Haha, I like the cluck sound upon release, I would buy it. I agree with you about deer jumping the string, it is usually the deer that are alert because they have seen or smelled someting or the ones that you stop with a grunt, whistle, whatever that are more likely to jump the string.

Kratz
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: THA4</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ill take quiet over speed every day of the week...... </div></div>

And you are shooting a....

Nope, nevermind, can't start something this early. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

I say shoot what makes your shoulders happiest Perry.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LIV4RUT</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I think the speed bows are just a pleasure to shoot at the bow range. It sure helps you score when you are few yards off the distance and a flatter trajectory. I also think most people blame deer that jump the arrow on the bow and not them. I dont think I have ever had a deer even remotely come close to "jumping the string" when it had no clue I was there. It is the deer that are looking at you in the flight or fight mode that jump the string. I also am currently inventing a bow that clucks like a turkey upon the release, just to make millions....:) </div></div>


Bingo! I am a 27 in draw length and shoot one pin out to 30 yards! That is huge for a guy with a short draw length!!


First off, it depends on the speed bow your shooting! I guess if you research you will find that certain speed bows (as we are calling them) are quieter than many others! Actually you may be surprised at the testing done on noise and speed!

These tests are supposed to be have been done by an independent magazine company, but either way here they are! Take a look


Click test videos and then you can choose which criteria you want to view!

But here is the real truth, don't just shoot a PSE, bowtech, mathews, ross, etc, go out and shoot them all and see which one fits you the best! If you purchasing a new bow, you should know which one YOU like and WHY when you purchase it!

Anyways, here is a link for your pleasure!!

Top Bow challenge
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: moosehunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

I think a quiet bow would be a bit more deadly than a fast one. What do ya think?
</div></div>
Yep, quiet is better than fast.
 
When someone says speed bow to me i start thinking K.E.

If you are not worried about speed (then for example) we will take my X-Force at 30" and 70#. I can shoot close to IBO and get 340+fps out of it and get over 90lbs of K.E., or i can shoot a 600 grain arrow at about 280+fps and still get the K.E.

You are all right. Speed is not everything but an extra 20 to 30 lbs of KE could bust through a shoulder alot easier.

And "speed bows" give the shorter draw length archers the K.E. they need and want.
 
Here's my take on this subject...........reguardless of what bow you shoot, the deer you're shooting at IS going to hear your bow string being released. They don't make a bow quiet enough that a deer isn't going to hear it unless you're shooting from 70 yards and it's windy. After watching a-lot of "shot" footage this year in slow motion I'm amazed at how many deer instinctively drop before the arrow reaches them, even at close range. A-lot of factors go into each shot, and each one is different, but the bottom line is that you aren't going to be able to hide your shot completely from any deer. Hand shock, vibration, and noise all seem like great selling points to bow companies, but when it comes down to it the only factor that really separates them from what really matters is the person behind the bow itself. Hit where you're aiming at from a reasonably close distance, and all the different selling points go out the window in my opinion. The only real reason to shoot a speed bow in my opinion is to give yourself a greater coverage area without having to adjust the elevation of your pin on the target, which is reason enough for me.
 
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