Thoughts on Ethanol and Biofuels

[HunterB]

I am curious as to what everyone’s thoughts are on the ethanol industry here in Iowa. Especially that of the farmers on this forum. I have been contemplating about getting into row crop farming and it had me thinking about the future of corn and soybeans. Currently roughly 40% of corn grown in the US goes to ethanol production. And roughly 45% of soybeans go to biofuel production. All of this is because of the Renewable fuel standard was put in place in the early 2000s mandates that gasoline be mixed with a certain ratio of ethanol. I began to do some more looking into the efficiency of ethanol and if it is actually as “green” as it is advertised to be. There are several recent studies that point out if you factor in the land-use-change, tillage, and the release of nitrous oxide into the atmosphere from fertilizer application, ethanol could potentially be carbon negative. Meaning that the production of ethanol does not reduce greenhouse gasses and in some cases it could be argued that it produces more. There are also many other concerns such as higher food prices, biodiversity loss, soil degradation and erosion that are often not factored when considering if ethanol is “green”. One of the main concerns for me is that a large portion of the farm economy is propped up on the production of ethanol. With the rise of electric vehicles and the increase in fuel efficiency means less gas(therefore less ethanol) is being consumed in the US. Do any of you have the concern of the plug being pulled on the renewable fuel standard? In some aspects of conservation I feel it could be better for the habitat if the RFS was done away with. Obviously this would greatly hurt farmers, but I feel like it is something that is going to happen eventually. What are all of your thoughts?

 

[Wi transplant]

You actually get better mpgs with straight gas vrs bio blends so actually use less gallons so i agree with wondering if trump will eliminate that law.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

 

[HunterB]

You actually get better mpgs with straight gas vrs bio blends so actually use less gallons so i agree with wondering if trump will eliminate that law.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

In a recent article I read it stated that the current average mpg in the US was 22 and if that were to increase by just 2mpg to 24mpg it would equate to all of the gasoline “saved” from using an ethanol blend. To me it just seems like such a scam. A program that is likely worse for the environment is being mandated by the government which in turn is the basis of much of the current farm economy. It would definitely be a lot of trouble for farmers if it were to be eliminated. But hey I guess there would be an increase in habitat and lower land prices at least…

 

[Sligh1]

I farm. I sell corn. I have a variety of corn “preferred” by ethanol plants. I don’t have a degree in physics or thermodynamics but I do have a degree in common sense & economics of life/business. I personally don’t think it: 1) survived without subsidies. 2) accounts for the detriment, unsustainability or environmental impacts corn production has long term. Especially when a state most suited to corn production has lost half the top soil in last 100 years alone. If we only farmed what was the absolute ideal acres of farmland with the least erosion & run off… production would drop off a cliff & the world would starve. We farm way too much that shouldn’t be and continue to doze out the rainforest for more production.

IMO- it’s like windmills. 20-25 years & they fall apart & essentially are a drop in bucket for our power needs. IMHO- for MOST our power needs in the world - housing, data centers, businesses to charging cars later …. NUCLEAR is the answer by far and away. Listen to the guys talk about what AI is gonna require for energy - it’s INSANE. We ain’t gonna harvest the energy from wind or ethanol.

Back to the point or to the basics…. If you personally want to sell to ethanol plants & can do well- DO IT!!! Whether it’s viable or not at our level isn’t really a concern & just realize that someday it likely will go away. Some other options are high biomass plants like switchgrass, certain fast growing trees & that stuff that looks like “elephant grass” (forget what it is).
If you gonna grow for ethanol- look into Enogen corn btw.

 

[HunterB]

I farm. I sell corn. I have a variety of corn “preferred” by ethanol plants. I don’t have a degree in physics or thermodynamics but I do have a degree in common sense & economics of life/business. I personally don’t think it: 1) survived without subsidies. 2) accounts for the detriment, unsustainability or environmental impacts corn production has long term. Especially when a state most suited to corn production has lost half the top soil in last 100 years alone. If we only farmed what was the absolute ideal acres of farmland with the least erosion & run off… production would drop off a cliff & the world would starve. We farm way too much that shouldn’t be and continue to doze out the rainforest for more production.

IMO- it’s like windmills. 20-25 years & they fall apart & essentially are a drop in bucket for our power needs. IMHO- for MOST our power needs in the world - housing, data centers, businesses to charging cars later …. NUCLEAR is the answer by far and away. Listen to the guys talk about what AI is gonna require for energy - it’s INSANE. We ain’t gonna harvest the energy from wind or ethanol.

Back to the point or to the basics…. If you personally want to sell to ethanol plants & can do well- DO IT!!! Whether it’s viable or not at our level isn’t really a concern & just realize that someday it likely will go away. Some other options are high biomass plants like switchgrass, certain fast growing trees & that stuff that looks like “elephant grass” (forget what it is).
If you gonna grow for ethanol- look into Enogen corn btw.

I agree that it will go away someday and that is part of the concern for me when suddenly ~50% of the crops grown in Iowa are no longer needed. That would be detrimental to a lot of farmers around here.

I don’t believe the world would starve if the RFS was eliminated because currently half of production isn’t even going to food.

Do you believe it should continue to be subsidized even if it wasn’t in fact doing what it was intended to reduce greenhouse gas emissions? This is where I think it IS a concern for all of us. Our tax dollars are supporting it AND it is likely causing more harm than good to our ecosystem here in Iowa.

The next generation feedstocks like switchgrasses and such do seem promising. Maybe that’s the future. Would be much better for our topsoil!

 

[northcedar]

The RFS states renewable fuel needs to he used, not necessarily corn. It just so happens corn is the most efficient oxygenate. I was under the impression all the most updated models show that ethanol production is net positive. Also don't forget to include the % of high quality feed in the form of ddg that is a byproduct of ethanol production. It fluctuates but is nearly a third of the bushel.

I'd like to see the crop insurance subsidy go away. You wouldn't see half of IA stop corn production. The worst of the worst might reduce acres, or spots in the rotation. You'd see fringe states/areas lower production first, most likely. And has IA really lost half their topsoil? Who determined that? With new record yields happening frequently, maybe topsoil isn't as important as once thought?

 

[Sligh1]

I agree that it will go away someday and that is part of the concern for me when suddenly ~50% of the crops grown in Iowa are no longer needed. That would be detrimental to a lot of farmers around here.

I don’t believe the world would starve if the RFS was eliminated because currently half of production isn’t even going to food.

Do you believe it should continue to be subsidized even if it wasn’t in fact doing what it was intended to reduce greenhouse gas emissions? This is where I think it IS a concern for all of us. Our tax dollars are supporting it AND it is likely causing more harm than good to our ecosystem here in Iowa.

The next generation feedstocks like switchgrasses and such do seem promising. Maybe that’s the future. Would be much better for our topsoil!

I don’t think it should be subsidized. I personally think it’s a “political favor”. The one way I’d be for subsidizing is when it’s an emerging market & technology…. U subsidize to “get it off the ground” IMHO. Let’s say for 5, 10 maybe 20 years. We are way past that point. It needs to be subsidized so it can stand on its own. If it can’t survive at this point without subsidies …. Hmmmm. I also don’t think it reduces greenhouse gases….. if we look at the peak emissions each year (you could likely google this)… it’s a huge boom in spring/early summer & then it drops way off. This is planting season (fertilizer, working fields, etc)!! . See if I can find a link on that. My point is…. It’s kinda like how we claim EV vehicles are best but we ignore the pollution (mining & manufacturing) & how they are powered by coal plants. Merits to them but not the whole picture.
My personal concern living in iowa…. There’s so much chemical inputs & pollutants surrounding us. In air & water & as a farmer - stuff I expose myself to. No one gonna live forever & im not sitting here in fear of all of it but sure is nice when we take steps to better the situation. Maybe RFK Jr will have some impacts here .

 

[JNRBRONC]

Ethanol production uses LOTS of water. Current ethanol production uses the corn kernel, which might be better utilized as food or feed. If they figure out a way to ferment corn stover or other biomass, I might be more of a fan.

I've heard that ethanol blends should not be used in chainsaws, lawn mowers, other small gas-powered equipment. Sometimes it's hard to find gas that isn't blended. Same with diesel fuel without biodiesel added. If I'm running ethanol in my chainsaw, I run it out of gas when done using it for the day. Don't know if it helps, can't hurt.

About 25 years ago or so I worked on a steeped corn project for a local ethanol plant. They were trying to determine how long to steep the kernel for a happy median between hours of steep and % of starch grains recovered. Corn was $2.50 a bushel at the time and it was stated that they made $25/bushel from different products extracted (high fructose corn syrup, ethanol, bioplastic from the corn kernel hull, etc.). As s farmer, I felt ripped off. I should have bought stock in that "Supermarket to the world".

 

[hillrunner]

The future of farming could look a bit different. Here's a few things rfk recently said:

We’re going to give farmers an off-ramp from the current system that destroys their health, wrecks the soil, makes Americans sick, and destroys family farms.”
1.“We’re going to REWRITE the regulations to give smaller operators a break.”
2. “We’re going to encourage sustainable regenerative farming that can build soil and replenish aquifers.”
3. “We’re going to BAN the worst agricultural chemicals that are already prohibited in other countries, and we’re going to remove conflicts of interest from the USDA dietary panels and commissions.”

I'm not sure what the plan is or how he could make significant change, but I'm paying attention. I grew up on a small farm dreaming of being a farmer myself. That desire went away after witnessing what farming had become.