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Timber Ghost Guides

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Flatfoot

Guest
I have a real problem with these guys, they are constantly harassing and I mean harassing ,the land owners in our area to lease their land , they have upset everyone with their methods. One farmer I know said he had to chase the guy off his place with a shovel. We who live in the country are very protective of the area and when we see constant spotlighting all night by strange vehicles we get very specious. They have caused more problems in 2 years than we have had in the last 20 years . We now have landowner families fighting among themselves to lease or not to lease. We have all been lucky to hunt without having to pay, but the sign in the window will soon read COMMING TOO YOUR AREA SOON TIMBER GHOST GUIDES.
Last year someone had a post that he paid a guide for a hunt and some how did not get to hunt and they would not give him his money back was this the same people?
 
Just another step closer to a time when the average joe stops hunting due to the headache and cost.
Check out the timber ghost web site! $10,000
hunts! I can imaging how tempting they make it for land owners to lease to them. All the mistique of killing a big'un brings out the big money. Some days Im happy to admit I enjoy other sports as much as deer hunting.
 
I am certain this is the outfit that featured a show on Larry Weishunn's Hunting the World Outdoor show a few month back..... he shot a buck with a rifle and I questioned it after the show since it was in Iowa..... I was told that the property was fenced thus they could use their weapon of choice. The website shows several pictures of hunters with rifles...... what a joke. It amazes me what some will pay to harvest a nice buck.
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I know that these guys are connected with AAA outfitters and are nothing but trouble they will use any method to get on a piece of ground. I read where they caught a guide giving out doe tag to guys and then letting them shoot a buck. Its just a matter of time before we say, I use to hunt their.........
 
I met a guy in SE Iowa at the local Casey's. He was an out of state hunter who I think said he booked a hunt with them if I am not mistaken. He said it was a mess. Got to his tree and somebody had stolen the stand. The guide took him to another area and it was already light out and he didn't see a deer. He never ended up getting a deer and then he was offered a preserve hunt. He refused. I felt so sorry for the guy I gave him the name of a local farmer who let him in. I stopped by a day later and he was happy, said he saw more deer for free than what he paid for. I am not certain but this sounds like the same outfitter as I was just west of you over in Lowell.
 
I have been enjoying the website for quite some time and planned on doing this in the summer when things are a little slower, and the days are a little longer. I have to apologize for not doing this sooner, but it always seems like I don’t have any time.
I want to go ahead and help dispel any and all rumors that are flying around in this forum about Timberghost Ranch. I moved here three years ago to take a job as biologist and manager for Timberghost Ranch. The owner hired me away from a place in Michigan I had been managing and guiding at for the previous 10 years called Sanctuary, which is another high fence preserve.
Here are the facts as far as Timberghost to date:
1.We offer hunting packages both in the preserve and on ground that we own and lease.

2.Our preserve, high fence area, is comprised of approximately 1500 acres.

3.We lease 6 farms in Southeast Iowa all within 20 minutes of our lodge. All totaled it comes to about 1800 acres this year.

4.All of our guides are seasoned professionals who take pride in their work, their knowledge of deer, and their ability to judge whitetails. We all spend about 130-150 days a year devoting time to scouting and hunting deer.

5.As far as the law, we will not risk our business and our reputation by breaking the law. In fact, we actively prosecute trespassers, poachers, or any other illegal activities we witness.

6.I personally worked with the DNR in Des Moines to help develop the CWD monitoring program for Iowa. I was part of this because I sit on the board of the Iowa Deer Association, and we want to do everything in our power to help keep Iowa a great state to hunt. We have tested over 70 samples just from our ranch and our leased grounds to help the DNR confirm that CWD isn’t in southeastern Iowa.

I suppose I should help Shoe first in saying that we are affiliated in no way with any other outfitters. I have never talked with anyone from AAA outfitters, and know nothing of their personal ethics as an outfitter.
Flatfoot, I will help clarify several rumors that you are starting and spreading.

1.My staff does not harass landowners. I am the one that deals with the people we lease land from, and I do not harass them. I try to make sure that any landowners I contact do not hunt, or do not have family that hunts their ground, and if I know that a group of locals are hunting it, I do not try to contact them. I am not trying to take away land that owners or their families utilize for hunting. I actually have no interest in trying to take away ground people are hunting for free. Most of the farms we have are by way of landowners contacting me to see if we were interested in leasing because they are either tired of people asking, the people who were hunting for free abused their privileges, or people simply trespass and hunt it anyway and they would rather have a responsible business post it and watch it. These people tell me they use the money to pay increased property taxes and as a little extra spending money.

2.I asked around and finally got the story on the guy that was chased away with a shovel. He was not affiliated with Timberghost in any way. In fact, the gentleman with the shovel was actually chasing someone that wasn’t even hunting his property from what I heard, but the important thing is that he wasn’t a part of Timberghost staff.

3.As far as your area, Timberghost has not, and will not lease any land in your area. It is too far away. I do not know where you got your info, but it is incorrect.

4.In regards to the post earlier about the hunter that was basically robbed, that was not our operation, and I believe that it was even mentioned in the post. I hold my staff, my hunters, and myself to the highest of standards. Our reputation in the hunting industry is one typically described as professional and first class, and we intend to keep it that way.

5.You probably heard Timberghost was leasing ground in your area, when in fact it was me personally. My family and a couple of my hunting buddies leased some ground about 45 minutes west of the ranch. We only get a couple of days a year to hunt by ourselves and we do not personally hunt on the property leased by the ranch, so we leased about 400 acres over in Henry County for personal use. Again, this was ground that the landowner said no one had permission to hunt on previous to me asking, but lots of people did so illegally.

3booners:
I can say that you are mistaken 100%. There are a lot of outfitters that have problems obviously, but I can assure you that we were not involved with that individual. We would not offer someone a preserve hunt who was unsuccessful during our open hunts. Our hunters are not treated this way. So basically, once again, the rumors people enjoy spreading are untrue. These are exactly the type of rumors I would be happy to respond to as false rumors tend to tarnish our reputation locally. Our local reputation doesn’t have any affect on our bookings, but we want to continue to play a positive role in our community.

Since I do have the time and I am sitting here I would like you to think on one thing. Everyone has different ideas on ethics and fair chase. Now I will be the first to say that the high fence industry needs some help with ethics, but when done right they offer a unique recreational experience for people who do not have the time to “do it themselvesâ€, or for people who want something better than open, unmanaged ground. I am not asking just about high fence. Some hunters use traditional archery, some use bows, some use traditional muzzleloaders, some us in-lines, some use shotguns, and some (in other states) use rifles. Some drive deer, some stand hunt, some still hunt, and some bait. We all make our own decisions for our own reasons. My question is why does it really matter what other people choose to do. My opinion, and call me a liberal of the hunting world, is that as long as it doesn’t effect my family’s livelihood, or that of my loved ones, and it doesn’t pose a physical risk to the public shouldn’t people be allowed to choose. While I think debate amongst peers is healthy, shouldn’t we as “hunters†support all legal methods of hunting, even if we disagree with the method. I feel like bow hunters should support gun hunters should support deer drivers, and people who hunt public land should support people fortunate enough to own land who should support people who can afford to pay for the privilege to hunt with outfitters. I believe the debates are great amongst ourselves, but when it comes time we should all support each other, because when one of us falls anti-hunters will simply start on the next weakest group. If you notice, they start on the most unpopular methods and work towards the most popular method. That is the plan. If you abandon one group do you think you can count on their support for the more popular method you choose
I know I will get the rotten tomatoes now, but I am curious to hear from people. I know several of you are die hard “my way is the right way†people, but I am not trying to change your mind. Just wondering why some of you feel like the world will end if we have outfitters and high fence hunting.
I will answer any questions or rumors that anyone has to ask with regard to Timberghost. We are not trying to cause problems for anyone, and in fact have great relations with all the farms we work with, and most of our neighbors. I know that here in Iowa, most people do not understand or want an operation like ours. I have no intention of trying to convince those of you who dislike outfitting and/or high fences that they are good things for you. All I wanted to do was let everyone know that we do not participate in anything illegal. There are good and bad outfitters, just like there are poachers and hunters. We are a company who tries to help our local community. We donate thousands of pounds of venison every year to needy people in our area, we help raise money for different local groups, we support our local conservation organizations, and we support our local economy by both buying locally, paying sales tax on all revenue, and creating jobs.
Sorry to ramble on, but I hope this helps, and for some I hope we can simply agree to disagree. I would enjoy to continue to use the site as I have truly enjoyed the stories and the thoughts of most people over the last couple years. Again if you have any questions about our operations, or want to see if the things you have heard are true please ask, or you can give me a call. The number is 319-937-5107, but I would call after season. I have a couple hunts left, and then it’s my turn in late muzzleloader. Good luck to everyone.
 
Timberghost,
Does Tyler Messer work for you , whats his connection......................
 
Timberghost-
I visited your website. $8,000 for a deer hunt! I guess there is a supply and demand for everything and the market sets the price, but maybe I am getting older and finding it difficult to chew, that is, the average Joe Hunter will not be able to afford to hunt. It will be a rich man's sport because I would never be able to pay the money to compete with $8,000 deer hunts.

I am definately one of those hard headed Iowans. I will not deny it. So I guess I will say I think canned hunts hurt our image as hunters. Has anyone ever not got their deer on a canned hunt? To me, that is not hunting. These deer farms and trading of deer are linked to CWD in Wisconsin. Fact is, 2 deer farms in WI have CWD positive deer. Are your deer brought into IA from a CWD state?
 
I don't understand why people have a problem with what high fenced preserves charge their clients to take a deer. Just because you or I could not afford such a hunt, who is to say how much is too much? I don't buy Mercedes, or Cadillacs, but I don't hold it against the people that do, or the dealerships that sell them. As far as canned hunts go, I wouldn't dare judge an operation unless I had first hand knowledge of the experience. I myself have heard some great things about Timberghost, but haven't personally been there and probably never will be able to. Just my 2 cents worth.
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Someday our great hunting will be just like europe and other countries. Only the "upper class" will be doing the hunting. Iowa will be no different. Sure wish that Iowa had more public ground. That's what a lot of "everyday joe" hunters will be left with.
 
Amen - Iowabruce,

We should all stop worrying so much about how others in our sport are harvesting their game, as long as it's ethical and is not breaking any laws. Our sport is receiving enough bad press from all the anti-hunting groups, we don’t need to fuel their fire, especially, since high fence hunting is deemed legal - to each his own.

I don’t think baiting, which is allowed in many southern states is any way that I personally would like to hunt, but I certainly don’t criticize those that do. I personally don’t want to hunt within a high fence area, mainly due to costs, but for those that can afford it great, it’s not hurting my family or me. Everything I have ever heard about TimberGhost is that it’s a top notch hunting preserve.

We all need to stick together for the good of our sport. Remember- united we stand, divided we fall. MH is right, these anti-hunting groups will work hard at chipping away at our vulnerable spots until they get what they want, let’s not make it easy for them.

Hope everyone is having a safe and enjoyable hunting season, that’s what it’s all about.
 
I think that there are many issues that most hunters have with high fenced and leased ground hunts. Most of us can give lots of reasons why we don't like these hunts but the truth is we are afraid. We are afraid that before long those of us who don't have the money to compete for land to hunt will be squeased out. I don't know anything about Timber Ghost but they control 3300 acres of land I and most of you will never have acess to. You may say that we never had acess before either but I'm sure that some of us have worked hard to gain access to hunting ground that no one else could get on. With these 3300 acres there isn't any chance now.

In my hunting area an "outfitter" has been buying and leasing land which we have hunted for 30 years. We started hunting these acres back when there were very few deer hunters, and now that SE Iowa has become famous we have lost our access because we don't have the dollars to compete. This ideaology seems to snowball, as more money is made from these operations more acres are leased, and as open access declines hunting fees go up and more money is made to lease up more land. I know that as little as 10 years ago there was almost no leased ground. I wonder where we will be 10 years from now.

I wonder if some sort of legislation, much as I dislike more laws, might help. According to the the DNR the deer are public domain, but if the public is limited in access then how can free roaming deer still be public domain. Maybe the DNR could use a special fee or just part of our licence fees to lease public hunting rights on private land. I don't have a lot of answers just a lot of opinuions. I would like to read any other thoughts any of you might have
 
3booners-
As far as unsuccesfull hunters in our hunting preserve, we had two gentlemen last year who did not harvest a buck, and three folks this year. In most instances, a canned hunt is 100% and typically involves shooting in a very small pen.
As far as CWD in captive cervids. From what i have read most of the tracebacks follow the movement of elk which originated from a government research facility in Fort Collins, Co. They sold infected elk to a zoo, in Denver I believe, which in turn sold excess animals into the elk industry. As far as the link in Wisconsin, their is no evidence whether the wild herd or the captive herd is where the CWD originated. In fact the owner of the Game farm where the infected animal came from had his vet retain samples in case a positive did show up. The samples are so they could DNA match the two samples to confirm there were no mix ups. I have heard that the DNR in Wisconsin is reusing to provide him with the original sample material for the DNA test. It is said he is currently sueing the state of Wisconsin as the samples he sent in from the same deer came back negative. This is a real touchy issue in Wisconsin right now. The bad news is they did confirm another case out of the endemic area in Grant county, a county that borders Iowa and Illinois. Keep your fingers crossed. This is all heard second hand. Just thought i would let you know what i have heard.
We did purchase a few animals a couple of years ago from a farm in Northern Wisconsin, about 300 miles north and east of the endemic area. I personally do not like the buying and selling game, but it was a necessary evil from a demographic standpoint. The farm we purchased the yearling and two year olds from has been on a CWD monitoring program for some time, and we have tested all animals that have died or have been harvested. We have not bought animals for about a year and a half, and have no intention of purchasing any in the future. It is simply not worth the risks and trouble for us.

bowmaker:
I agree with you completely. I think fear of loosing hunting priveleges scares the hell out of anyone. I know a little sincerity, a helping hand, and an occasional letter of gratitude to landowners will go a long way in helping to keep relations good, wether you lease or hunt for free. Iowa is gaining popularity, namely due to hunting magazines, and people will lease land. One of my guides lost three farms he used to hunt for free to leasing. I personally would love to see the DNR institute a program where people could sign up, like the CRP programs, to allow the public to hunt. I think if they offered a tax break, or even a stipen per acre, you would see several new areas open to hunting.

Shoe:

Tyler is one of the guides who works for me. He is also one of the full time employees. He grew up in the Burlington area and is the guide I was referring to above that lost three farms he used to hunt. How do you know Tyler? I asked if he knew you and he could not place the name. He thought that maybe you where the gentleman who hunted out by Geode where he hunted late season last year.

I hope this helps some, and i appreciate the different thoughts. Sometimes i think there are guys out their who love hunting as much as we do that we will never know due to where we work. It is almost a shame. I appreciate the comments and look forward to reading more.
Good luck in the morning!!!
 
I would not worry too much about high dollar fenced operations such as Timberghost has. Bottom line is that very few deer hunters will pay $8000 for a deer hunt, not when they can get great hunts at other places in Iowa, Texas, western Canada, Kansas, etc. for under $3000. In addition, any animal taken within a high fence area is not elgible for entry into the record books. The high dollar fenced operations cater to a very, very small number of hunters who can afford to pay the price and who are willing to hunt behind the confines of high fences.

I have no interest in hunting fenced preserves, but if they are large enough to offer fair chase, I don't harbor ill feelings to those who choose to hunt there. I do think, however, that the interstate movement of live game animals must stop as diseases are too frequently transferred into areas where the disease did not previously exist. The health of the animal herds enjoyed by the general public should never be jeopardized by a handful of persons who a moving animals for personal profit.
 
High dollar - high fence hunting is a non-issue to me. It's not what concerns me. I'm sure the "Outfitters" are well liked by the landowners they lease from. They are getting paid for rough ground they can't doze into a crop field.
I have a brother-in-law who lives in Illinois. He gave up deer hunting. It is a direct result of being squeezed out. Leased land is far more comon in Il. His small group of 3 hunters got fed-up with searching for a spot other than public land, which became over hunter as people unable or unwilling to lease scrambled for a place to hunt.
We need all the hunters we can get in the woods. The future of hunting is not good if own or lease equals access. Lets face it there are alot of other sports out there hunting competes with that are easier to access. Low cost is a huge welcome mat on huntings doorstep. I hate to see people quit because of cost/access.
The "disappearing middle class" will happen to the hunters as we move toward "the Kings deer" You can't play if you can't pay.
I've paid an outfitter twice in the past and have a hunt booked now. I just think leasing land puts hunting in thin ice when public land is as limited as it is in Iowa.
I can understand why a framer would be glad to lease hunting rights. Thats not hard to figure. As we scream into the future hunting will change rapidly. I'll go kicking and screaming all the way as it becomes just another big business enterprise. In the end it will have made little difference. I wonder what the Wal-Mart of hunting adventures will be called Cabela's? I love this free market economy! God bless capitolism!
 
$$$$, it's all about money! Your right scout God bless Capitolism. I will continue to treat my landowners with respect and work when the need help, basically just be there friend. In the end I hope I still have a place to hunt for free with at least some quality access. I will continue to search for a spot to buy and call my own, to share with friends and family.
Maybe if this economy keeps it up, no one will want to pay these leases.
Pupster
 
When I was growing up I always hunted public game lands, often driving for several hours to reach the area I hunted. I never felt that private land owners close to home "owed me" a place to hunt. I did not harbor bad feelings towards those landowners who denied me permission t hunt or towards those hunters fortunate enough to gain access. Nor did I even consider giving up hunting because I only had access to public grounds and had to drive a few hours. Guess it all comes down to how badly you want to hunt.
 
We all respect the rights of the landowner to dictate who if anyone is allowed to hunt!
You make my point!
"It all comes down to how badly you want to hunt"
Accross the nation many thousands of hunters will stop hunting rather than encur the additional cost of leasing or purchasing land to hunt. The simple fact is alot of hunters will give it up! We need them involved. When they nolonger hunt they will no longer care about hunting or the rights of those who do. Hunters make up a very small segment of the public. Limiting access is another death nail in the outdoorsmans coffin.
 
Timberghost guides

I have been going to Timberghost for 10 years and I love that place. I plan to continue to do so. I've found it to be the best place out there. I sense some jealousy possibly because Timberghost knows how to grow the deer for sure.
 
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