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Apple/Pear Trees

Kazak apples

I haven't read through all of this thread but I skimmed it for references to Kazak apples and didn't see any. I read about Kazak apples in M. Pollan's book ' The Botany of Desire'. Well worth reading. It describes how apples are our most genetically limited crop and require huge inputs of pesticide to grow commercial apples. Therefore if you are looking to use apples for wildlife you may want to consider using Kazak apples as an alternative. It would aid in getting new genes into current "native" wild apples and help the research as well. Here is a response from Forsline below that may be of interest.


Here is the form letter re your request for seeds. I will wait to hear from you to confirm your interest in receiving seeds....Phil

Philip L. Forsline
Research Leader/Location Coordinator
Horticulturist/Curator for Fruit Crops
USDA, ARS, Plant Genetic Resources Unit
630 W. North Street
Geneva, NY 14456-0462
Phone: 315-787-2390, FAX: -2339
Cell: 315-521-9933
e-mail: Philip.Forsline@ars.usda.gov

http://www.ars.usda.gov/main/site_main.htm?modecode=19100500



Thank you for your email(letter) re the discussion of Kazak apples in M. Pollan's book ' The Botany of Desire'. I am enclosing via an e-mail format, a generic letter that I send to people with inquiries about our program. Re Kazak apple seeds/trees, we do not have trees available to send out. We can send a small seed lot that you will need to germinate (see the section at the end of this message from our Procedures manual on how that is done). Original seed from Kazakstan is reserved for use by scientists doing genetic research. However I can supply open-pollinated (O.P.) seed from our grow-outs which are in a somewhat isolated area and these would be a blend of all genes from many sites in Kazakstan. This site contains over 1000 trees of Malus sieversii and most of those trees will have fruited by fall 2007.

I have been receiving many requests like yours: This is how I have handled each request:
Fruits from the grow-out site were collected in fall 2001, 2002, and 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and we extracted seeds. I have sent about 100 seeds per requester (open-pollinated) from at least 4 different mother trees that represent diverse ecosystems in Kazakstan, to over 250 requesters like yourself. With the new season (2007), we will collect additional seeds from the Kazakh apples. Therefore, for those requests coming in now through 2007 and early 2008, this is what I recommend: From the pool of seed that we collect in fall 2007 from this same site, I will start filling requests for more of the open-pollinated Kazakhstan apple seed. We will start sending seed orders toward the end of October, 2007. You will need to stratify the seeds for 3-4 months (see procedure below): Start the stratification process in November/December 2007; start seedlings indoors in early spring, and plant in the field Spring 2008.

If you are interested, I will send your order in fall/winter 2006/2007. Please contact me if you are interested in the above scenario. I will need your mailing address.

Sincerely,

Phil Forsline

Guidelines for Malus Seed Germination

1) Wash and disinfect all containers to be used for chilling or germination and disinfect the working surface on which the seeds are handled.

2) Soak individual seed lots in separate containers, for a minimum of 24 hours to a maximum of 48 hours in regular tap water. Start the soak in the a.m.; Change the water every 2-3 hours to remove any possible growth inhibitors. You will not need to change water for the overnight soak. Label containers with appropriate identification and handle carefully to avoid misidentification.

3) Distribute seed evenly on saturated but not dripping wet blotter paper or paper towels, shake off any excess water. Place germination containers in the dark at 1.5oC (34oF) (regular kitchen refrigerator works fine at 38°F to 42°F) for a minimum of 90 days. Check on seeds once a week, changing paper every two weeks.

4) As needed, surface disinfect each seed lot in 10% chlorox for two minutes, followed by a thorough rinse in running tap water. After 60 or more days, the radicle (white root that starts to emerge from the base of the seed) begins to emerge; then discontinue the use of all surface disinfectants so as not to burn the root-tip.

5) Therefore after about 60-110 days of chilling as you see a few of the seeds in each seed lot showing radicles, place seeds at 10oC (50oF) (or cool room ~ 60oF is fine) for 2-5 days to promote full germination of the seed lot. If some of the seed still appears viable continue to hold the seed at 100C until you see radicle emerge and then plant.

6) When radicles have emerged, carefully plant pre-germinated seed in 4" plastic pots with Cornell mix (commercial potting mix). When planting the seeds with the white radicles, take extra care in not damaging the young radicle (1st root) tip. Grow seedling to 6-7 true leaves and transplant to nursery.
 
I noticed even here by the house that deer have started hitting the new growth on the apple trees

NippedBranches.jpg


So I got busy and started fencing them and this setup cost about $12 bucks a tree buying 5 ft posts and 4' wire from Menards. Posts were $2.50 a piece and a 50' roll of wire was $22 and does about 5 trees.

We just lift the wire up off the ground since the bottome is protected by the window screen

AppletreeCage.jpg


I noticed the Goldrush Trees are really infected with Cedar Apple Rust

Sickleaves.jpg


Cedar Apple Rust

Cedar Apple Rust is a common fungal disease that requires two hosts: eastern red cedars or junipers, and apple or crabapple trees. On crabapple or apple trees, the disease manifests as small, yellowish-orange spots which appear on leaves in the spring. These spots continue to enlarge and turn more orange, often with a red border. The fungus grows through the leaf, and fringe-like structures arranged in a ring appear on the underside of the leaf in midsummer. These structures produce spores, which are infectious to junipers. Junipers and cedars become infected in late summer or autumn. Galls form on the branches, growing from a combination of plant and fungus tissue. During spring rains, the galls swell and form bright orange horn-like projections. Despite the dramatic appearance, damage to junipers is generally mild though some twig dieback may occur.

Cedar Apple Rust on crabapples and apples is unsightly and may result in defoliation. However, it will not kill the tree. The most effective means of controlling rust is to plant cultivars with proven resistance to the disease

Goldrush from ACN

GoldrushApple.jpg


and from Century Farms

NewGoldrush.jpg


Both were infected

Sickleaves2.jpg


Autumn Rose

AutumRose.jpg


and

Enterprise

Enterprise.jpg


appear to be healthy happy trees!

HealthyTree.jpg


Just some observations from the Doubltree... ;)
 
I thought I'd make a post on a couple fruit tree's I had. I planted these 2 in Spring 08, and late last summer the grasshoppers where tough on many of my trees, and ended up killing quite a few. Being that roots were alive, they re-sprouted this spring, and now I have several stems. I planned on trimming these tree's up this fall or early Spring during dormancy, but thought i'd post some pics here for recommendations.. from guys who actually know what they're doing LOL.

The 1st tree is a Pear. One steam is a perfectly straight 5ft steam with pretty much nothing for branches. The other stem broke in early-mid summer so it shot branches out pretty low, and now has a dominant central leader. Here are a couple pics. Which one would you choose to keep... the perfectly straight one, or the one that's slightly crooked with big branches starting already.

Straight Stem (Pear)

DSC_0015.jpg



Branched Steam (Pear)

DSC_0013.jpg



This Tree is a Peach i'm pretty sure. 3 Stems @ 4-5ft. 1 is really straight but smaller than the other 2. I would assume it'd be best to cut 2 down and leave one... in the long run for better quality fruit production and for single steam strength.

DSC_0011.jpg


DSC_0012.jpg
 
You can just cut off the dead part Joey but where it has sprouted from the root, below the graft it will not be the tree you expected.

Most fruit trees are grafted to a rootstock that is nothing at all like the grafted portion.

I'm not sure what they use on the pears? You don't have much to lose by trimming away the dead stuff and see what happens but maybe someone else will have other thoughts?
 
Good info Paul. Yeah, I was planning on cutting the dead pear out of there. I cut the peach out already. I wish I knew more about these tree's. I purchased them last year from Orschelins cheap, in pots. I considered them a loss, and was about to dig them up to put new ones in, when I saw the new growth coming up & decided to leave them & see what happen. Now they're 5ft tall.

Fortunately the hoppers haven't been too bad this year. Only 3 of the 7 fruit trees made it alright through last year. They ate the bark right off the tree...along with most of the leaves.
 
Fortunately the hoppers haven't been too bad this year. Only 3 of the 7 fruit trees made it alright through last year. They ate the bark right off the tree...along with most of the leaves.

I wonder if you couldn't use some type of screen or netting over the trees until they get older (during "hopper" season) to help protect them?
 
Keep those trees alive! Even if you have the JUNK rootstock trees- start grafting in desirable trees on to the root stock that resprouted. Yes, if you let the root-stock tree you NOW have go- you'd likely have JUNK for fruit BUT it's easy to take ANY type of apple you want (cut off a tree you like) and graft on the junk tree that is doing well. Let me know if you don't understand what i am saying. Good luck!
 
Keep those trees alive! Even if you have the JUNK rootstock trees- start grafting in desirable trees on to the root stock that resprouted. Yes, if you let the root-stock tree you NOW have go- you'd likely have JUNK for fruit BUT it's easy to take ANY type of apple you want (cut off a tree you like) and graft on the junk tree that is doing well. Let me know if you don't understand what i am saying. Good luck!

Makes perfect sense to me...too bad I don't know how to graft anything:D

One thing for sure your not going to kill the rootstock while attempting the grafts so it would be a good place to practice...;)
 
Paul,

What I did on that fencing I used like you just bought from Menards, was turn it upside down. Then the smaller squared parts are more at the browse line of deer and the bigger squared parts are towards the bottom where there is nothing for them to get to anyways. I figure on my place it would only be a matter of time before they would be reaching through the bigger squared parts and tearing stuff up. :D
 
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I'm getting ready to start the stratification process with the Kazak apple seeds which is as follows:

Guidelines for Malus Seed Germination

1) Wash and disinfect all containers to be used for chilling or germination and disinfect the working surface on which the seeds are handled.

2) Soak individual seed lots in separate containers, for a minimum of 24 hours to a maximum of 48 hours in regular tap water. Start the soak in the a.m.; Change the water every 2-3 hours to remove any possible growth inhibitors. You will not need to change water for the overnight soak. Label containers with appropriate identification and handle carefully to avoid misidentification.

3) Distribute seed evenly on saturated but not dripping wet blotter paper or paper towels, shake off any excess water. Place germination containers in the dark at 1.5oC (34oF) (regular kitchen refrigerator works fine at 38°F to 42°F) for a minimum of 90 days. Check on seeds once a week, changing paper every two weeks.

4) As needed, surface disinfect each seed lot in 10% chlorox for two minutes, followed by a thorough rinse in running tap water. After 60 or more days, the radicle (white root that starts to emerge from the base of the seed) begins to emerge; then discontinue the use of all surface disinfectants so as not to burn the root-tip.

5) Therefore after about 60-110 days of chilling as you see a few of the seeds in each seed lot showing radicles, place seeds at 10oC (50oF) (or cool room ~ 60oF is fine) for 2-5 days to promote full germination of the seed lot. If some of the seed still appears viable continue to hold the seed at 100C until you see radicle emerge and then plant.

6) When radicles have emerged, carefully plant pre-germinated seed in 4" plastic pots with Cornell mix (commercial potting mix). When planting the seeds with the white radicles, take extra care in not damaging the young radicle (1st root) tip. Grow seedling to 6-7 true leaves and transplant to nursery. <!-- / message -->

I'll keep posting the different steps as I go along...something new and different for me but interesting just the same!

Here is an article on the Kazak apple trees and the reasons for attempting to spread the genes around the country.

Remarkable Kazak Apples
 
1) Wash and disinfect all containers to be used for chilling or germination and disinfect the working surface on which the seeds are handled.

I purchased some small containers with lids and then marked the containers and the envelopes that have the genetic information listed for each of the four Kazak Apples we received. I ran them through the dishwasher to disinfect them even though brand new.

Kazakprep1.jpg


2) Soak individual seed lots in separate containers, for a minimum of 24 hours to a maximum of 48 hours in regular tap water. Start the soak in the a.m.; Change the water every 2-3 hours to remove any possible growth inhibitors. You will not need to change water for the overnight soak. Label containers with appropriate identification and handle carefully to avoid misidentification.

I then soaked the seeds, changing the water several times but eventually leaving them to saok over night.

Kazakprep2.jpg


By morning they water was discolored from the softened seeds...

Kazakprep4.jpg


I rinsed the seeds, washed and dried the containers and then proceeded to the next step

Kazakprep3.jpg


3) Distribute seed evenly on saturated but not dripping wet blotter paper or paper towels, shake off any excess water. Place germination containers in the dark at 1.5oC (34oF) (regular kitchen refrigerator works fine at 38°F to 42°F) for a minimum of 90 days. Check on seeds once a week, changing paper every two weeks.

I made sure the paper towel was damp but not soaking wet and placed the seeds back in the containers

Kazakprep5.jpg


Reattached the lids and placed them back in the fridge

Kazakprep6.jpg


I'll check them and change the paper towels and disinfect as as noted in the next step..

4) As needed, surface disinfect each seed lot in 10% chlorox for two minutes, followed by a thorough rinse in running tap water. After 60 or more days, the radicle (white root that starts to emerge from the base of the seed) begins to emerge; then discontinue the use of all surface disinfectants so as not to burn the root-tip.

After they have gone thru the stratification process (much the same as happens naturally in the wild) then I will plant the seeds in pots and get them started indoors... :cool:
 
I'm looking for someone in central iowa who might want to pool together an order of apple trees. I would like to order asap. If you are interested send me a PM.
 
I'm looking for someone in central iowa who might want to pool together an order of apple trees. I would like to order asap. If you are interested send me a PM.


Definitely check out Adams County Nursery as they have really good price breaks for that many apple trees.

You can get the best they have to offer for 13.75 a tree for 25-99 trees which are 1/2 inch or bigger and feathered. :way:
 
Definitely check out Adams County Nursery as they have really good price breaks for that many apple trees.

That's where I've been looking at ordering from. They seem to have the best supply right now as well.
 
Just dont wait to order from ACN because they will begin to sell out rapidly this time of year, especially late ripening varieties.

Burnt Ridge is another nursery with great prices and good stock if you don't find someone to pool an order.

Most of their trees at $15-16 with no minimum order making them a reasonable option for smaller orders.

Burnt Ridge Nursery

We ordered Asian pears from them last year and they did very well...:way:
 
I've read before about getting apple trees on clearance at the end of the season at stores with garden centers like Wal Mart for example. What time of year does this usually happen and what kind of deals can we expect? Also, is the quality of their apple trees decent? I'm guessing this would be late May to early June when they go on clearance?
 
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I've read before about getting apple trees on clearance at the end of the season at stores with garden centers like Wal Mart for example. What time of year does this usually happen and what kind of deals can we expect? Also, is the quality of their apple trees decent? I'm guessing this would be late May to early June when they go on clearance?

Sometimes it's the end of summer for root balled or container trees but fall can be a great time to plant any trees including apple and pears.

I bought a couple 8 ft apple trees last summer and so far they are doing fine. Paid $12 a piece which of course you can buy them for that from nurseries but they won't be 8' high either!

Assuming they are on a good rootstock the tree itself should be just as good as anyones tree and many of us can't resist the opportunity to plant another tree or two at a reasonable price...:way:
 
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