Alfalfa

[dbltree]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: u.p. bowhunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i have a 1 1/2 acre field that butts up to 3 acres of clover. i am thinking about putting it in alfalfa. a few queations i have are.
is there a certain type of alfalfa better for strictaly grazing
is there a herbacide to kill broadleaf weeds but won't hurt the alfalfa
is the protien content equal to or better than clover
a
i will be doing a spring planting with the oat cover crop (what would the best seed rates be)
thanks for any and all help...waiting for twenty two inches of snow to melt so i can shed hunt then fire up the tractor </div></div>

Here is some good information that should answer some of your questions: Grazer Alfalfa

Cover crop oats

There are other grazing type alfalfas and almost any alfalfa will be attractive to deer, just remember the management problems that go along with alfalfa versus clover.

Alfalfa is much easier to manage when it can be harvested for hay because it gets so much taller and clipping it can cause smothering.

Clover and alflafa have very comparable protein but alfalfa has the advantage of being available much later in the season.

Of course 22 inches of snow may negate that advantage! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

2-4DB is a broadleaf herbicide safe for alfalfa and clover.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - Falcata alfalfa

This alfalfa really sounds interesting! It's a yellow leaf alfalfa brought from the Siberian plains that can be used as a "one or two cut" alfalfa.

It's fine leaved and well suited for grazing, can be mowed very late in the summer making great for pheasant habitat and they graze cattle on it in January!

Wind River sells the seed in Wyoming so I'm contacting them about some seed. Sounds like it's 4 bucks and some change a pound.

They have been interseeding it on rangeland so it must be pretty adaptable and ISU has been testing it for some time as well so obviously it will grow here in Iowa.

I think it's worthy of testing...check it out!

Falcata alfalfa seed

Two-Cut Alfalfa

Flowering Alfalfa Breaks Barriers

any thoughts nannyslayer??

 

[nannyslayer]

Re: Alfalfa - Falcata alfalfa

Interesting, especially that it says that it is "successfully grazed in the winter." It would be very interesting to see how it would handle the type of soils we have around here in Iowa. Looks like it would definilty be drought tolerant, and handle the cold weather, so I'd say give it a shot. But dang 4 bucks a lb /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

 

[SaskGuy]

Re: Alfalfa - Falcata alfalfa

This is a great thread, super informative. If I had a food source to put $ on here, early season anyways, alfalfa all the way! By the way, 4th cutting of alfalfa???? Here we're lucky if we can get 2.

 

[huntdoc]

Re: Alfalfa - Falcata alfalfa

How appealing or how much protein does early season alfalfa have? Some nice looking fields coming up in my area but the deer seem to still be focused on picked corn fields.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - Falcata alfalfa

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How appealing or how much protein does early season alfalfa have? </div></div>

Alfalfa is one of the highest in protein of anything available at 18 to 25% CP depending how and when it is tested. Clover may be slightly higher but one is splitting hairs so to speak when it comes to testing forages.

Alfalfa as a Protein Source

At times deer will be looking for energy like that from corn and picked corn fields will still have some "pickings" early in the spring before "green" forage starts growing. Thats why diversity in our food plots is important.

Alfalfa and corn are hard to beat and alfalfa is generally available earlier and later then clover. As this thread has mentioned alfalfa is not for everyone but it does have some very specific advantages.

Wind River got back with me on the Falcata seed, it's $4.05 a # with a $50 min. order. She said they have shipped plenty of seed to Iowa and had never had a complaint about it not thriving or doing well.

That being said I think I'll place an order tommorrow..if anyone is interested in a few pounds PM me and I'll just order extra. The problems inherit with alfalfa in a small plot it would appear may not be with Falcata so it seems worth testing. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - new seeding

This is some 3 year old alfalfa at our place here in early May...some amazing growth compared to other possibles this early in the spring. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

I've mentioned often how deer love alfalfa from early spring right into very late winter, it can last for years if properly established and can provide an income for those that can either harvest it or rent it out.

The question is this...can we manage alfalfa as a food plot only, since it does put on such fantastic growth? You can see by the picture...I would need to mow it already.

I wanted to compare alfalfa to clover and try the dryland Falcata alfalfa as well so I planted each in blocks roughly 1/4-1/2 acre each where I can moniter each for usage by deer and see how difficult each is to maintain.

I planted some Dekalb alflafa that nannyslayer brought over...he promised me monster bucks or a steak dinner with this alfalfa (least wise that's the way I heard it... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif )

Brian carries some great forage seed so give him a shout if anywhere near his area.

I mixed some Berseem Clover with one plot..

just because it's fast growing and inexpensive at $1.64 a pound...it is an annual but germinates quickly while other crops are getting established.

other plots I mixed some red clover that Brian also carries...

again, just get some faster growth along with the alfalfa and it will eventually die out leaving the alfalfa long term.

Other plots I planted the Falcata dryland "yellow blossom" alfalfa to compare it and give it a try since it is a one cut alfalfa with late winter grazing advantages.

It may not do well here but I'm only out 50 bucks if it doesn't fly... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

We tilled and cultipacked...

Then broadcast some of nannyslayers forage oats...

at roughly 50-80#'s per acre

Then we seeded the alflafa by hand with a small hand seeder at 18-20#'s per acre. I believe everything was pre-inoculated but I added fresh inoculate just to be safe an then re-packed to just cover the seed.

Remember alfalfa seed is very tiny...don't bury it! Always cultipack or roll the ground before seeding and then pack it to cover the seed. It should be just pressed into the top of the soil, not buried like larger grains.

My soil had great soil fertility because I have built it up over time and removed nothing but a few hundred pounds of venison! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Alfalfa is a legume so no nitrogen is needed but potash (potassium) and phosphorus may be required depending on your soil test.

Potash

Phosphorus and Potassium

PH should be about 6.8 and again mine was already fine. otherwise apply lime the fall or winter before if at all possible to give it time to work.

I will moniter the oats and weeds and clip later as needed. The oats are acting as a "nurse crop" to inhibit weed growth and provide some forage while the alfalfa seedings .

I'll keep you posted and compare the different alfalfas along with clover and other crops and see how each pans out. /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[nannyslayer]

Re: Alfalfa - new seeding

Paul, hope everything works out great for the plots. Another thing to add is the Red carpet clover seems to "live' a little longer than it is exspected to. Alot of people use it as a hay crop, so clipping it a few times through the summer may be the key. Another plus is, it has the inoculant coated on the seed. Red carpet is what I use for plots, and the deer seem to clean it up. This year, I had clover up until the "thaw" (do to an early ice)

As for the steak, I'll bring it, but you have to cook it /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - new seeding

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> it has the inoculant coated on the seed </div></div>

I did forget to mention that... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/blush.gif

This rain ought to make things "pop"! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - new seeding

My alfalfa seeding is coming up very nicely! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

June 1st (seeded first week in May) alfalfa from nannyslayer...

Seeded with forage oats from nannyslayer and planted next to clover plots to eventually compare the pros and cons of each.

I also planted test plots of Falcata Alfalfa and a strip of it all the way around the field.

There is Berseem clover mixed in with it so it is a little difficult identifying it at this point. In this pic some of the berseem is obvious...

The Falcata is not an improved strain, somthing that is being worked on of course but right now the only seed that is available is just grown from original seed brought here years ago.

A ranch in Wyoming is the only grower that I am aware of and they warned me that this alfalfa will have no resistance to disease or insects while nannyslayers conventional alfalfa has all of those attributes.

At any rate I'm interested to see how this dryland/rangeland one cut, winter hardy alfalfa will do..or if it will do anything at all.

The yellow blossoms should give it away if it grows...

They have shipped plenty of seed to Iowa with no complaints so that's all I have to go on.

Stay tuned... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[nannyslayer]

Re: Alfalfa - new seeding

Looks good /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

What are your plans with the alfalfa and oat mix? Are you going to clip the oats or are you going to spray them? Just wondering, alot of people don't have oat/alfalfa mix that looks that good right now for hay.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - new seeding

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: nannyslayer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks good /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

What are your plans with the alfalfa and oat mix? Are you going to clip the oats or are you going to spray them? Just wondering, alot of people don't have oat/alfalfa mix that looks that good right now for hay. </div></div>

Right now it's wait and see...clipping being cheaper then spraying of course. I just have to make sure it doesn't get to heavy before clipping.

New alfalfa and oats at the right stage make some pretty nice hay...something that might just be in short supply this year... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[fullrut2]

Re: Alfalfa - new seeding

man,
I would love some of that forage alfalfa! I could plant 20 acres of it and have someone cut and bail it for me.
where do you get the forage variety?

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - new seeding

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fullrut2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">man,
I would love some of that forage alfalfa! I could plant 20 acres of it and have someone cut and bail it for me.
where do you get the forage variety? </div></div>

The Dekalb alfalfa seed I planted came from nannyslayer and he could sure fix you up with some...just shoot him a PM for more info.


If you have ground that can be hayed I would urge you to consider conventional alfalfa seed. Hay is going to be a premium and if you can find a farmer to take it off on shares you can have "your cake and eat it too"!!

What a deal to not have to maintain a foodplot that will draw deer into very late winter, that can yield some high returns, that someone else can do the mowing and spraying and that can last perhaps longer then any other plot that you could possibly plant.

I have seen all types of foodplots fail or be eaten to the ground long before season...but never alfalfa. Even an acre field can take a pounding, produce 3-4 cuttings of hay and still be drawing deer in January! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

I took this pic of deer feeding in my alfalfa in November...

The rangeland alfalfa I would discourage anyone from trying it until I see how it does. It may just not do so well here...there is a huge difference between the dry rangeland of Wyoming or North Dakota and the humid and often wet farmland of Iowa, MO and ILL.

Disease may be a huge problem...or not...I just don't know, but I hope to find out! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Falcata alfalfa seed

 

[Sligh1]

Re: Alfalfa - new seeding

QUESTION- either clover or Alf-alfa, I get mixed opinions on whether to mix in oats for a quick cover crop (spring planting obviously) to beat the weeds and mow later. What do you recommend, oats mixed in OR just the clover/alf-alfa seed. Are there ups and downs to both?
*Co-op told me a couple months ago to go without oats, that's why I ask.

 

[fullrut2]

Re: Alfalfa - new seeding

thanks tree..I hope to plant some this sept.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - new seeding

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Sligh1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">QUESTION- either clover or Alf-alfa, I get mixed opinions on whether to mix in oats for a quick cover crop (spring planting obviously) to beat the weeds and mow later. What do you recommend, oats mixed in OR just the clover/alf-alfa seed. Are there ups and downs to both?
*Co-op told me a couple months ago to go without oats, that's why I ask. </div></div>

OATS ARE OPTIONAL! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

Using oats for a nurse crop is and age old method of using something to help supress weeds that could then be harvested, leaving the seedling alfalfa behind.

Now days we have herbicides and other options so oats are no longer needed but the do provide a quick food source in the spring for nursing does and bucks with "headgear" in the works!

Why add oats? Why not?

Here's the deal...if you plant alfalfa or clover in late July or early August, you can clear seed them. Any weeds that emerge will be killed at first frost and your good to go.

Spring planted alfalfa or clover will have weed problems that you have to deal with, either by spraying or clipping and oats can help suppress them longer.

Still one has to clip or spray the oats eventually but in the meantime they have provided a quick food source and already your deer will have adapted to coming into your new food plot.

What's not to like? /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cool.gif

Oats are cheap and deer love them! If you seed in late August then the oats will serve as a fall food plot that is hard to beat until we get a hard freeze and the next spring your new legumes will hit the ground running!

Oats in no way will hinder your legumes unless you let them get mature and mow them and let them suffocate your new seeding. Clip or spray them before they get that tall...or better yet sell it to a farmer for hay! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

This pic was taken Nov. 2 of oats and clover planted in August. Deer pounded these oats literally into the ground and the next spring the clover did great.

 

[Crimson Arrows]

Re: Alfalfa - new seeding

Can you plant Rye with clover as a cover or can it only be seeded in the fall by itself?

 

[dbltree]

Re: Alfalfa - new seeding

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: huntyak</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can you plant Rye with clover as a cover or can it only be seeded in the fall by itself? </div></div>

You can seed clover with rye in late August and it works very well.

Alfalfa needs more time before freezing weather to become established, so summer plantings from late July to early August work well.

Severe winters when we have little snow can heave alfalfa crowns, especially on heavy ground. Alfalfa puts down extensive root systems as deep as 15 feet! This allows it to pull moisture and nutrients from deep in the subsoil (this allows it to survive but not thrive as it would if it has proper surface moisture and fertilizer) and is another reason alfalfa can help to build your soil.

It's also a reason why it can be very chancey to plant alfalfa too late in the summer when one would normally plant rye. Clover however can be seeded into September making it a perfect time to use rye or rye and oats along with the clover.

One doesn't really need a "nurse crop" in the fall as frost will take care of any annual broadleaf weeds that come up. The clover however is to tiny to be a food source so adding a cereal grain let's you "kill two birds with one stone"! /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

This link will give you all kinds of info on problems alfalfa growers may face, may of which are not a big deal in a food plot situation but great info none the less.

Integrated Crop Management - ISU Alfalfa

ISU Alfalfa links

This link explains summer planting of alfalfa however because it is in Kansas, the dates are a few weeks later in the summer then Iowa.

Summer is Prime Alfalfa Planting Time

 

[TallTines]

Re: Alfalfa - new seeding

I am thinking of planting some alfalfa after reading this thread.

My question is since alfalfa grows so much faster than clover how often would i have to mow it for a food plot?

There will be no baling.