Cereal Grains and cover crops

[dbltree]

Re: Cereal Grains - rye plantings

It takes a minimum of 7 days for rye seed to germinate so give it some time yet. Might be longer where it wasn't covered well. We have plenty of moisture now so some sunny days would be welcome again. Rye will germinate and grow way up into November in southern Iowa so no worries about the weather being "too cool".

See what it looks like this next weekend...

 

[risto2351]

Re: Cereal Grains - rye plantings

I planted this two weeks in three of my plots.

It is a combination of Rye, Oats, Peas and Clover.

I bought everything except the clover from Nanny.

The peas have yet to germinate think they ever will??
You can see the baby clover next to them in the picture.

This plot was my very first one about four years ago before I met Dbltree. Could never get anything to grow. I figured what the hey Dbltree said Rye could grow anywhere.
Looks like at least the rye will make it.

Had to throw this one in. While checking my cams Jr. climbed on
my mineral lick. Had to chuckle a bit.

 

[Limb Chicken]

Risto pics that along the crack lines and below in the "clover" pics (pics 3 and 4) you will see little green plants that have two leaves and are oval shaped.

Clover!

Which, if in your yard, is a weed...

Here is a picture of Paul's red clover seedlings...

 

[dbltree]

Originally Posted By: steveolson
Dbltree, you keep talking about crop rotation so here is a question for you. I'm not a big fan of brassicas so wheat else could I plant next fall in the same field I planted my rye and peas on this year? I'm usually tagged out long before the brassicas get hit. :}

STEVE

You can get away with a rye/clover combo in itself...in other words plant rye and red or white clover each fall and just till it all down the next summer and replant.

other possibles might be including oats and peas.

How big is/are your plot/plots? Too small for soybeans??

Thanks for posting the clover seedlings Limb!

 

[dbltree]

Originally Posted By: steveolson
Dbltree, I've got three plots in total. First is 1/4 acre that is in oats. Second plot is 1.1 acre and is in rye & peas. Last plot is 2 acres and is a dedicated clover plot (Allyce/ladino).
Don't get me wrong I know they will hit the brassicas so for feeding the deer that's fine but I want a good hunting plot come November as part of my rotation. Thanks STEVE

That's a great combination Steve! My thoughts on brassicas are this...true, they may turn up their noses at them and not touch them.

If however they learn to eat them, they make a fantastic November thru January draw! That's the whole idea behind brassicas...they stay green and sweet well into cold weather. Snow and bitter cold will find deer foraging on brassicas and when everything else is gone they will dig up the turnips.

I know they will hit the brassicas so for feeding the deer that's fine but I want a good hunting plot come November as part of my rotation

If they'll feed on them...isn't that the whole idea?? Deer come to feed...we shoot deer...

If I had your plot setup...eventually I would try planting a small area of the clover plot (for example) to brassicas and test them. Plant a small plot each year (that has been in clover) and let deer get used to them, monitor usage with exclusion cages, trail cams and or hunting near by.

Brassicas are a great crop to use up nitrogen left from clover or peas and can pull nutrients up from the subsoil...lots of great qualities that make them worth including in your rotation.

Just go small...then what do you have to lose...and you may be pleasantly surprised

 

[Limb Chicken]

Should be around 7 days Dean.

 

[dbltree]

Originally Posted By: Limb Chicken
Should be around 7 days Dean.

Here's a chart to make it a little easier...

Common Name
Approximate Germination Time (days)


Alfalfa 7

Alyceclover 21

Austrian Winter Pea 8

Clovers 7-10

Corn 7

Cowpea 8

Indiangrass 21

Millet 7

Small grains (Barley, Oats and Wheat) 7

Sorghum 10

Soybean 7

Sudangrass 7

Switchgrass 21

Vetch, hairy 10


*Adapted from Ball, Donald M., Carl S. Hoveland and Garry D. Lacefield, eds. Southern Forages, 3rd ed. Atlanta: Potash & Phosphate Institute, 2002.

 

[dbltree]

My oats have been in for two weeks now and look great...

In this pic I have planted 2 portions each of BFO and Jerry oats...can't tell which is which at this point.

Guess time will tell if one out performs the other in some way. I have trail cams set up over these now also.

The rye seed that I had concerns about was completely non viable seed...a total waste! The green growth is oats and the bare spots were field rye.

I paid a visit to the supplier who sold it to me and he agreed to replace it with fresh seed...so I'll leave it at that.... /forum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/crazy.gif

The new seed won't be here until later this week but we still have plenty of time to plant rye, oats and wheat. You can see what the oats looked like in two weeks...nice and tender and very lush.

I want the rye for a late season draw so I hope to get it sown perhaps this weekend. Since I have already seeded clover in those areas I'll most likely broadcast it on the bare soil and hope for another good rain to germinate it.

If you buy seed from a major dealer like Welters or nannyslayer, you know your getting fresh seed. At small town dealers however it pays to check the test date as your throwing it in the back of the truck....

 

[dbltree]

Re: Cereal Grains - Oats r Oats

and the plot thickens in the "oat tests"

sorry I couldn't resist....

When we don't plant seeds/crops/varieties side by side it is really difficult to say pro or con and in the case for or against expensive oats such as BFO or ordinary spring oats I wondered after planting them...

What if the BFO are just outstanding? What if they are just sooo lush and green and deer flock to them and ignore the others? After all if you read the back of the bag they pretty much tell you as much (like most all brand name varieties)

At any rate I have to admit being very curious and I felt sure that the expensive BFO would be at least as good or appear slightly better then the Jerry oats.......boy was I in for a surprise!

This view shows a field with 4 strips of oats...BFO, Jerry, BFO and Jerry. Note that the Jerry is very very green and lush while the BFO is..well...not.....

This is the opposite end of the field showing forage oats and field peas on the far left, BFO then the dark green Jerry oats in the center.

Another view showing Jerry in the middle and very far left

Now, I'm not advocating Jerry oats, I would rather have a forage oat such as the ones I got from nannyslayer last spring or Frank Forage oats from Welters but no matter...they are ALL available at a very reasonable price ranging from 8 to 12 bucks for 50#'s versus $35 for the BFO.I had some left over buckwheat so I threw that in one area just to see what it did...growing at least...

Clover alfalfa, Forage oats and peas and oat test plots just so you can see a variety of feed including three different varieties of oats.

Grazed Jerry oats

Heavy grazing in the common feed oats (Jerry in this case) shows that even with expensive oats and other types of feed right beside them...they can't resist tasty succulent tender oats...of any kind!

I set up exclusion cages 9-21 to see if we can tell anything from that in a month.

BFO exclusion cage

Jerry exclusion cage

I top dressed with fertilizer 9-21 in strips cross ways with a high N fertilizer as it was thundering and spitting rain but it never did rain so it may be for naught. The oats look great without fertilizer but just curious and as always..."testing"

This is a completely different plot...Jerry on the left, BFO on Right and both heavily fertilized and the fertilizer tilled in.

Jerry left, BFO Right...you decide which one looks more attractive...

What about time of planting?

These pics show oats planted at different times just to give you an idea when to plant to have tender oats during hunting season. These oats were not "planted" but tilled under spring oats that re-sprouted when I planted brassicas August 1st

I stuck my bag seeder in them to give a better idea

These are oats planted in mid August (again largely tilled under forage oats from this spring) to plant my field peas.

So we have oats planted anywhere that are now 4, 6 and 8 weeks old and all are being grazed heavily. The older oats may become a little rank by mid October so we will keep an eye on those. The skies were threatening and promising some rain so I decided to top dress some fertilizer on parts of the oat plots and broadcast my fresh rye seed

The rye seed I had planting was 3 years old completely worthless and not a single seed germinated. My seed dealer replaced it with fresh rye seed harvested this summer so I broadcasted it back over the areas I originally seeded.

Plenty of soil moisture but I nice drencher would be helpful...

Soil seed contact is easy at this point but we are looking at a stretch of pretty dry weather. As I was seeding one plot....it rained on the other (before I seeded it of course... )but hopefully it will eventually germinate and get going.

Plenty of time for planting grains if you have some drowned out areas or just have not got around to it. Broadcast some rye into standing corn or soybeans that are staring to drop leaves, inexpensive way to add some green feed...

As for the oats, at this point I am actually disappointed with the BFO oats. Deer are mowing the Jerry oats and I cannot blame them since they are so lush and bright green. The whole thing with BFO is that they supposedly will last longer into cold weather but adding winter rye to the mix insures that we will have green feed all winter long for a very reasonable costs per acre.

I will keep sharing pics and results as fall and winter progresses...

 

[dbltree]

Re: Cereal Grains - Oats r Oats

Originally Posted By: DEERBOY
a quick question, I planted rye memorial day week end it is about 3inches I really haven't seen any grazing yet will it be soon or will they kind of wait til the corn and beans are gone?

They may wait until crops are gone but they start on mine the minute it comes up. Two different farms, both with tons of other feed but they never ever turn down cereal grains.

These pics are only a few days ago and right next to soybeans, alfalfa and brassicas....

They should be hitting yours shortly!

 

[Skully]

Re: Cereal Grains - Oats r Oats

Lots of deer and turkeys hitting my rye/wheat plot now. Mine is three to four inches tall. I have concluded that in my area, only does, fawns and small bucks enjoy the taste of rye and wheat.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Cereal Grains - Oats r Oats

Quote:
only does



but...in November, where there are does, there will be mature bucks...

I also want to remind everyone that there is a fantastic acorn "feast" going on right now and that's hard to compete with.

This is a pic from under an oak in my yard this past weekend....

The rye seed I broadcasted on top has started to germinate...

Assuming one has fresh viable seed, broadcasting field rye into standing soybeans, corn or even ground that has been to wet to work is a great way to add green feed to your fallplots.

This seed is on bare ground and while we have had some rains it has been pretty warm and dry up until now so broadcasting into a bean field just a head of leaf drop actually helps conserve some moisture and lets the seed get germinated and off to the races by the time leaves fully drop.

Winter rye (fall rye grain) is hard to beat and it will also be there this winter when those tired old bucks will be desperate to fill their stomachs...so don't give up hope Skully....

 

[timekiller]

Re: Cereal Grains - Oats r Oats

Thought I'd throw a couple pics on here of my rye/oat plots. They were planted Sept. 12th which during the 1st day of a 3 day rain that we got. The first pic has always been kind of an opening in the timber, but the timber got logged last year, and they really opened this spot up. I broke the ground up with a ATV chisel plow that I need to post some pics of because that thing worked unbelievably well. I just need to get the brand of it again. I then just broadcast the rye and oats and left the rain to work it in as it was starting to get pretty sticky. It worked because everything that's green in the pics is either rye or oats.(mostly rye) It's about 3/4 to an acre in size and runs through the trees behind that little brush pile about 40 yards.

The second pic is a smaller plot about 20 yards away from the bigger one that was where the logs were stacked up until they got them out of there. The grass was alot taller when it was mowed so it didn't get worked up as well. It is coming up pretty good though.

I thought I'd put them in this thread to show that this stuff will grow in the woods too. You can't get any more in the middle of the timber than where these are planted.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Cereal Grains - Oats r Oats

Quote:
I then just broadcast the rye and oats and left the rain to work it in as it was starting to get pretty sticky. It worked because everything that's green in the pics is either rye or oats.



Excellent! [

Cereal grains are as easy as pie and so inexpensive to plant.

Those "woodland" spots should be killer areas now...thanks for sharing the pics and info.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Cereal Grains and cover crops - Forage Radish

Originally Posted By: steveolson
Dbltree, I was all worried that my deer were not hitting my rye plot but that has changed, they are ON IT NOW good. STEVE

Awesome!

While were watching our cereal grains grow I thought I would cover a little more on soil building to give you some ideas for next year.

Forage Radish is something I have mentioned in the brassica thread and I planted some with my rape and turnips this year.

It doesn't look a whole lot different and deer and livestock forage on the leaves just like other brassicas, the difference is in the extremely long root.

Many of us have very hard pan clay soils that we are trying to improve by various soil building methods and Forage Radishes are a fantastic, simple and economical way of loosening soil, bringing up nutrients from the sub soil and feeding deer at the same time.

The tops don't look much different then other brassicas

The following spring however the rotted tap roots will leave deep holes that will have shattered the hard pan.

Imagine hard soils like a plate...what happens when we pour water on a plate? Pour anything on a hard surface and it's going to run off. Imagine roots trying to penetrate that hard plate, imagine the stress and energy on a plant as it's roots struggle for everything it needs, unable to go vertically where the "gold mine" lays.

Now...imagine a soft fluffy sponge...water and nutrients absorb instantly rather then running off. Tap roots of whatever we plant on loosened soils can penetrate deep into subsoil for moisture and nutrients previously "locked" beneath the hardpan or "plate" so to speak.

This is another pic of just how deep the radish root can go and because it can, it is able to bring up P&K and then leave it at topsoil level.

This pic compares the roots of field rye on the left, struggling to travel horizontally against the "plate" while the radish plunges straight thru the plate like a missile headed for Saddam's bunker!

Like field rye, radishes suppress weeds both while growing and the following year. Starting to get the picture here?

Using the right combination of crops like rye, buckwheat and radishes we can loosen soil, build the organic matter, "haul" up hidden nutrients, soak up nitrogen..and that's just the beginning!

Outstanding winter annual weed control: Radishes suppress most winter annuals. Hen-bit and chickweed are no match for fast growing tillage radishes.

Seed isn't expensive and is planted just exactly like other summer planted brassicas.

Quote:
Seeding rate: 8-10 lbs per acre when planted alone. Plant 1/4 to 1/2 inch deep. If dry, plant 1 inch deep.

Seed size is slightly larger than alfalfa. The alfalfa setting will be close to desired tillage radish seeding rate.

Radishes are a quick covering crop that is usually up in 4 days




Some planting tips

Tillage radishes are extremely competitive and will outgrow most other cover crops seeded as a companion cover crop. However, seeding rates can be adjusted in order that the tillage radishes don’t out compete the other species.

Successful establishment of mixtures has been obtained by planting alternating rows with a drill that has both a legume box and grain box. We have also found the variety “Jerry” oats to do well when mixed with Tillage radishes.

Tillage radishes germinate very easily- similar to rye. They can be broadcasted on the surface and will grow if there are sufficient seeds contacting the soil and moisture is adequate. This is a cheaper method of establishment but comes with the risk of poor or uneven germination. However successful broadcast establishment has been achieved by some farmers.

Aerial seeding into soybeans before leaf drop and into standing corn is possible but it has been observed that tillage radishes do not perform as well compared to drilling. The roots just don’t seem to be as aggressive even after the crop is harvested and they can capture full sunlight. Another risk with soybeans, is if the weather doesn’t cooperate with harvest, the radishes could grow up through the canopy and cause problems with green radish leaves entering the combine

There are great pics of radishes broadcast into soybeans at leaf yellowing in this link:
Growing Tillage Radishes


Growing Tips

Fertility: Tillage radishes will take up excess nitrogen after a crop. However, in order to fully express their rooting action, they need at least 60 lbs of N– accumulated either as residual or applied. In most instances, with high fertility fields, there is sufficient N left over from the previous crop. However, in low fertility fields, adding N is necessary to allow the radishes to achieve maximum rooting. Upon decomposition in the spring, N will then be released in time for utilization of a spring crop.

Tillage Radishes don’t like wet spots. Fields with a history of being wet are not a good choice to plant tillage radishes. One rule of thumb is if alfalfa can’t grow, neither will tillage radishes.

Radishes will winter kill when temperatures drop to the mid-teens on successive nights

Tillage radishes will winter kill similar to fall planted spring oats. One night in the teens will not take them out- it takes several nights in a row. Winter kill also depends on how warm it may get after a cold spell. Above normal temperatures after a few nights in the teens will allow the tillage radishes to recover until another cold snap arrives.

Tillage Radishes have an unpleasant odor when decaying. After tillage radishes are hit hard with cold weather and start to decay, they will emit an unpleasant odor-especially if warmer weather arrives. It’s no worse than manure per se, but then again for some it has caused them to investigate exactly where that “smell came from”.

All the pics and quotes come from the following links:

Tillage Radishes

Tillage Radish Research

FORAGE RADISHES AS COVER CROP

Biotilling with forage radish

Cedar Meadow Farm

Overseed forage radish into soybeans

GRAZA Forage Radishes

Seed is slightly over 2 bucks a pound very much like turnip and rape seed.

The seed I planted this year was Graza Radish and I don't know how it compares to Diakon Radishes at this point.

Graza Radish Seed

There is a great post with plenty of pics showing deer eating the forage radishes in this QDM thread: Daikon radish update

I'll be bringing this up next summer and perhaps we can split some seed if anyone is interested. It can be mixed with other brassicas or planted alone in areas where your soil could use some serious help.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Cereal Grains - October 10th Oats/Rye Update

If you put a regular potato on my plate and a Yukon Gold potato...I'm going to eat the Yukon Gold...it's just darn tasty.

Put on or the other and I'll just eat whichever because I'm hungry!

So this is how we need to truly compare various food plots varieties and species of plants. Plant oats of any kind, deer will most likely eat them, but......

What happens when we plant different varieties of oats side by side? Is one a Yukon Gold???

I posted pics earlier that shared my disappointment with the extremely expensive BFO compared to the very reasonably priced commonly available Jerry oats...so here's an update and things don't look any better for the BFO's.......

This pic shows Jerry oats at the left, Buck Forage Oats and then Jerry at the very far right again.

BFO left Jerry right, the Jerry oats are taller, lusher, greener and obviously the "Yukon Gold" of the two......

The Jerry has been heavily grazed in all areas of all the plots

While the BFO has...not.......

Here's a view end to end...starting at the bottom of the pic, there is Jerry, BFO, Jerry, BFO, Jerry and in the far upper left corner some newly late planted rye.

I did this to insure that one type of oats wouldn't not have an advantage over another by being closer to a runway, etc.

I fertilized this area heavily but all. of it received the same as I went cross ways of the plot. Deer walk thru the plot from several runways which forces them to literally walk across each and every inch of it.

From that I can only surmise that very clearly they prefer the Jerry Oats over the BFO. Jerry oats are a 1/3 the cost of BFO...

In the shade where it had more moisture the Jerry oats really grew! Remember they were planted Sept 1st!

This is a second plot with BFO on the left and Jerry on the right and a few brassicas thrown in as a late planting test.

Here...the Jerry is again being heavily grazed

In this plot there is at least evidence that deer have lightly grazed the BFO's

Clearly if one mixes winter rye with regular oats or forage oats you can have a fantastic all winter long plot for a fraction of the cost of planting BFO which will NOT last all winter despite what we might be led to believe........

The winter rye that I broadcast on bare ground on 9-21 has come up...

I broadcast it into some standing soybeans along the edge as well

Along with some brassicas just to show the possibles of broadcasting into beans

What about shady spots?

I planted both Jerry oats and later on broadcast winter rye into this spot in a small partial sun area

It gets 3-4 hours full sun per day and does well but areas under the trees...not so much...

I'll check on the other farm in a few days and keep an eye on these spots while I'm hunting as well....

 

[Daver]

Re: Cereal Grains - October 10th Oats/Rye Update

Paul - if I were you and someone drove up my driveway with a BFO hat on...I would hide!! As usual, your posts are extremely informative and the many great pictures really add to the well told story too.

It sounds like Jerry oats are the bomb!

 

[dbltree]

Re: Cereal Grains - October 15th Oats/Rye Frosts

LATE FRIDAY NIGHT INTO SATURDAY MORNING...LOW TEMPERATURES WILL FALL
TO NEAR FREEZING WITH CONDITIONS FAVORABLE FOR FROST OR A FREEZE.

Over the next few nights I expect most of us will receive some sort of frost or freeze that will start to affect our plots.

Frost will have no affect on our rye, triticale and wheat and it takes repeated hard frosts to damage oats.

We haven't really kept track on this thread so we'll note the low temps and frost/freezes and see how long our oats last.

Kinda wished I hadn't "spruced" mine up with a shot of nitrogen...dang stuff is knee high in some places!!

Jerry oats at 6 weeks

This pic shows Jerry on the left and BFO on the right with a few late brassicas scattered in. Look closely at each and you'll see the tops nipped off the Jerry but nothing on the BFO.

Two weeks until things start picking up as we head into the rut period and a month to peak breeding, so we'll keep an eye on the oats and cold weather and see how much it takes to "toast" it....