HF716/necked cartridge update

Discussion in 'Legislative Forum' started by Fishbonker, Mar 25, 2019.

  1. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Life Member

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    Sorry to start another thread on this topic but things are reportedly moving very fast on this one and I didn't want it to get lost in the clutter like the original pistols thread.

    I heard a few minutes ago (0930) that this bill has been placed on the Senate Daily Debate Calendar. I'm asking for clarification because I don't see where the bill has even been through the subcommittee/full committee process yet so I don't know if it is even possible for this to happen. Some days the computer system that keeps track of all the legislative activity is notoriously slow so at this point I can not independently confirm this rumor. This could very well be "hallway talk" which isn't official but usually comes to pass.

    As a review: HF716 passed the House last Thursday on a straight party line vote and was introduced to the Senate that afternoon, it was sent to the Senate Natural Resources and Environment Committee Chair to assign a sub committee and last I knew that's where it still is.

    I will work on getting more info and pass it along as I do. Hopefully this is just a bad rumor and we will have a chance to make our voices heard before the Senate rubber stamps it.

    EDIT: the legislature adjourns at noon on Thursdays and doesn't convene again until the following Monday at 1300. So nothing official, such as assigning sub committees, happens until Monday.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
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  3. Hawk32

    Hawk32 Active Member

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    Bonker

    Is this something we should writing/emailing legislators for or are we past that point? Thanks for the update.
     
  4. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Life Member

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  5. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Bonker.... did the final version have a cartridge length limitation or was that eliminated?
     
  6. gunrunr

    gunrunr Life Member

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    If it doesn't have a max length then it would probably make .50 BMG a legal weapon - a firearm that is extremely lethal at over a mile in capable hands.
     
  7. muddy

    muddy Administrator

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    Emails sent... hopefully to thr correct people.
     
  8. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    ....this is why I am asking. It was 1.8" max. I heard they were tying to get the cartridge limitation removed (Go figure).

    ...it's all bad news, but no limit on cartridge length is worse.
     
  9. cybball

    cybball PMA Member

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    Dumb question. When writing my reps, should I refer to the house bill now that it is headed for the Sentate?
     
  10. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Life Member

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    It remains a House File so refer to it as HF716.

    A file retains its designation when it goes from one body to the other.
     
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  11. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Life Member

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    I've been going to track the case length thing down but do you know if it is in the law or a rule by the NRC? I don't remember it but I don't remember yesterday.
     
  12. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Idk. All I do know is the current straight wall law has the case length limitation
     
  13. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Life Member

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    Sub committee has been assigned:


    Senator Chris Cournoyer, Republican, Senate District 49, Clinton and parts of NE Scott Counties. Email: chris.cournoyer@legis.iowa.gov Legislative page: https://www.legis.iowa.gov/legislators/legislator?ga=88&personID=27004

    Senator Claire Celsi, Democrat, Senate District 21, Parts of the City of Des Moines, West Des Moines and a small part of NW Warren County around Cumming. Email: claire.celsi@legis.iowa.gov Legislative page: https://www.legis.iowa.gov/legislators/legislator?ga=88&personID=27000

    Senator Tom Shipley, Republican, Senate District 11, Union, Adams, Most of Cass and all of Pottawattamie County except Council Bluffs. Email: tom.shipley@legis.iowa.gov Legislative page: https://www.legis.iowa.gov/legislators/legislator?ga=88&personID=14814

    A date for the sub committee meeting has not been set.

    I have checked repeatedly on the legislative web site and it appears the information I had this AM about it being on the debate calendar was wrong.

    To find your Senator and/or Representative click here: https://www.legis.iowa.gov/legislators/find if you use only your zip code you may get the wrong legislators. Use your full address or your zip+4.
     
  14. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Life Member

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    I finally decided to track down the 1.8" rule.

    HF716 is proposed to change Iowa Code Chapter 481A.48 Section 5 and 6 found here: https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/code/481A.48.pdf these laws require the NRC to make rules, the rules pertaining to straight wall/pistol cartridges is Iowa Administrative Code Chapter 106.7(3) found here: https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/iac/rule/06-07-2017.571.106.7.pdf I could not find the reference to the 1.8" case length maximum anywhere. Then I decided to look in the most obvious place, the hunting regs rule book PDF. It is there on page 31. I should have gone with the easiest first. Now my conundrum is where did that come from? I can't find it in code or rule but it should be somewhere besides a simple rules book.

    Sometimes I forget to start with the easiest and most obvious solution first.
     
  15. muddy

    muddy Administrator

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    We all owe you a couple 40s of OE for all your hard work on this
     
  16. Earnhardt

    Earnhardt Member

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    The case length limit of 1.8" is on page 31 of the 2018-2019 Iowa regs booklet

    Oops...you beat me to it..as I was looking for it.

    I'm guessing the reason the limit was set at 1.8" is that there are other straight wall cartridges that are 1.8" +, that will extend the rifles range. OR... maybe it's because the .450 Bushmaster was the primary winner with the 1.8" case length limit, due to the fact that the .450 Bushmaster when load in factory configuration has an overall loaded case length of ~ 2.25"...and that will fit in the AR magazine...

    Also, maybe the Iowa DNR or some special interest group did not want cartridges with longer range capabilities out there slingin' lead at 500 yards to 1000 yards...I dunno...

    Some States allow the 1.8"+ straight wall cartridge during their gun season, and there are gun manufacturers/assemblers that were/are selling ARs that can handle the 450 Marlin case.

    The 450 Marlin requires a magnum bolt face and a beefed up AR-10 receiver to handle the higher pressure the 450 Marlin has due to it being a magnum cartridge bolt face of .532".
    The AR-10 has a max load mag length of 2.81"

    Where as the 450 Bushmaster uses a .384" bolt face (.223 cartridge) and can be used on the standard AR-15 frame due to the lower chamber pressures it creates.
    The 450 Bushmaster fit in a max mag length of ~ 2.3"

    In between is the 45 Raptor that has a .470" bolt face (.308 cartridge) that needs to be built on a AR-10 receiver.

    A .45-70 is another example of a straight wall case that is longer than 1.8". They are more of a lever action cartridge, but I supposed they could be used a a single shot too.

    But it's the combination of the bottle neck cartridge WITHOUT A CASE LENGTH LIMIT OF 1.8" that opens the door for cartrides like the .375 and .416 Chey-Tac as well as the 416 Barret to be used during the Iowa deer season if this law passes.

    Even thought the .458 SOCOM is a bottle necked cartidge, I don't think it was the .458 SOCOM ammo or gun manufacturers that wanted an UNLIMITED case length...the .458 SOCOM case length is 1.575".

    You want to get someone's attention as to allowing a NO CASE LENGTH limit on .375 to .50 caliber bottle neck cartridges?...send them a pic of a loaded 416 Barrett cartridge compared side by side with a .450 Bushmaster and a 12 gauge slug...

    That'll open your eyes man!

    Anyone have a loaded 416 Barrett cartridge to set next to a 450 Bushmaster case with case length of 1.7"?...

    Bottom line is this...either someone accidently left the case length LIMIT of 1.8" out when they introduced the bottleneck cartidge ALLOWANCE in the bill that would allow the 458 SOCOM to be used...or this is a gateway bill, soon to be a law, that will eventually remove the .375" to .50" caliber restriction on cartridges. And that will allow all bottleneck rifle cartridges to be used for deer hunting...(with an obvious minimum caliber restriction of the normal .223")
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2019
  17. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Life Member

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    I prefer to be poisoned by the venom that is King Cobra. Finest malt likker ever to be put in a 40 ounce bottle. They can't put it in cans because it would eat through the metal.
     
  18. Fishbonker

    Fishbonker Life Member

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    Nice write up. It is my belief that this is a simple gateway bill. Why would they not want to allow the most popular rounds for deer hunting, the 30 calibers like .308, .30-06 or the 24 caliber or the 270 caliber? Well, maybe the opportunity they are trying to create is the opportunity for hunters to buy a new gun to fit the regulations. Crazy like foxes they are.

    I know very little about the different calibers, case lengths, muzzle velocity etc etc but I do know that high speed centerfire guns in the rut is game over for Iowa and I believe this is just another step in that direction.
     
  19. Ishi

    Ishi PMA Member

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    Now I’m confused but emails sent!

    Thanks for your work Bonk but I’m sure you are missing Randy’s help. Good news he came home yesterday. Beer coming your way this weekend at the banquet.
     
  20. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Is this what we need flying around rural Iowa? [​IMG]

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  21. IowaBowHunter1983

    IowaBowHunter1983 Super Moderator Staff Member

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    Why[​IMG]

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