THE WISCONSIN STORY.....

Discussion in 'Iowa Whitetail Conference' started by Sligh1, Dec 29, 2019.

  1. Hardwood11

    Hardwood11 Trump 2020

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    Screenshot_2019-12-30 Bowhunter Kills Fourth Booner Buck in Five Years.jpg
    Agree with you, but sometimes the majority of hunters/voters make the situation worse. Like Minnesota. Try to talk about moving the gun season out of the rut, and the rifle guys will go nuts.

    They outnumber bow hunters and control the state... so it is below its potential due to
    He is wrong. Of course you can manage a great farm and shoot big ones in any state. There is a family in MN that has 500 acres of prime land and they have shot multiple Booners. They are bow only and have the entire parcel screened with trees. They have crop, CRP, timber, swamp in the middle it works perfect.

    Having the gun season later is (key) factor, imagine how many more big bucks would die if you moved the gun season to November 10 in Iowa. One or two years later is would be dismal.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
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  3. Droptines

    Droptines Active Member

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    I'd like to respond to the out of state hunters who don't think we know how good we have it here in Iowa. I was a youngster growing up on a dairy farm in the 50's. We had plenty of our own land to hunt, and all our neighbors. Few people hunted, because deer were scarce. My grandpa would not allow anybody shooting a doe in our party. In the late 60's being a teenager I started hunting with a bow. Deer numbers were up and it was comforting to see more deer, but buck sightings were still rare. By the late 70's deer hunting was becoming more popular. Especially with bowhunting and the compound bows being produced. In those days you purchased your bow, and gun licenses 5 months in advance. You were allowed to only kill one deer. That meant if you shot a deer with a bow; you couldn't shoot a deer during gun season. You could only shoot antlered bucks with a gun. Some of us here are old enough to have paid the dues for the opportunities we have today in Iowa.
     
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  4. Daver

    Daver PMA Member

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    I'm right there with you. ^^ I remember the days where you had to send in your application in the mail and hoped you got one of the few doe tags for a given area. I seem to recall that buck only tags were unlimited, but the antlerless tags were semi-uncommon. Now...some guys shoot more does in a year than you could have done in a lifetime in those days.
     
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  5. sep0667

    sep0667 Land of the Whitetail

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    Ultimately it comes down to the hunter pulling the trigger. Poor regulations such as guns during the rut or to many doe tags do nothing until a hunter pulls the trigger. The issue to so many hunters not aware of the issues and read about it and follow forums etc like we do and see the whole picture and think long term.

    If we could get the majority of hunters to think about the subject like this thread we could overcome poor regulations.
    Most hunters out there buy a tag and go hunting. For example it amazes me how here in IA in some areas how so many hunters will buy doe tags and then complain about not seeing very many deer, but still try to fill their doe tags. They don't get it, they just think that since there is a tag available that it means there are enough deer to go out there and try to kill them and fill their tags. Not buying extra tags or buying them and not filling them never crosses their mind. Or it does but they want instant gratification, they want to shoot a deer and are not willing to wait a season or a couple seasons to let the population grow back. They don't think next year or the year after etc. I enjoy following the bowhunters of iowa facebook page, but so many people on that page just completely lack being able to see the big picture. I can't believe how many times people on their post wanting more rifles or wanting to change the regs in some way in a way that will ultimately do more harm than good. This is where we are lucky in IA (as of now), is overall we have the regulations that help guide and promote a healthy deer herd and helps let bucks reach older ages and have a good population of deer. But, if we lose those regulations most hunters don't see the whole picture and we would lose what this state has. It is incredibly fragile and can completely change in only a few years if we lose the regulations we have.

    I am already worried. $$ drives everything and can also ruin so many things. We are already losing some of the regs. Crossbows in the late archery season and the introduction of some rifles in the gun seasons, late season rifle is back this year too. I'm afraid that could be the start. What will be expanded in say 5 years? Do you really think things will be just how they are now and nothing more will be changed in say 5 years? I hate to be a naysayer, but I doubt it. Getting youth involved is another issue, but we may not see the effects of that for a couple decades or generation. Having access to quality ground nearly requiring a lease or buying ground being needed unless you have a good friend of relative with land I don't see how many youth will grow up being hunters. Public in IA can still be good, but from what I see/experience is it is more and more pressured each year.
     
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  6. JNRBRONC

    JNRBRONC Moderator

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    I’ve been following the harvest numbers. Total deer kill is around 84,000 this year (20K down from last season). I don’t see late ML and second leg of archery adding much. So I started to wonder if it was EHD, late corn harvest, or fewer licenses sold. I asked the DNR via their Contact Us page. The reply was that it is too early to tell, but the comment was made that license sales slumped for the second year in a row.

    I’ve seen articles about this happening as a national trend, with usually the conclusion that efforts aimed at “Hunter recruitment” are needed. I’m sure that will be the argument used in DSM when new legislation is introduced this session. As mentioned previously, this will not increase Hunter numbers IMO, rather allowing existing hunters more options for weapons/seasons. Youth aren’t going to take up hunting unless there is a familial tie in.

    As license revenue dries up, the legislature trims the DNR budget, how does the DNR do its job?

    Fewer hunters, private land purchased for recreation and/or leased for hunting, there will be big bucks in Iowa.


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  7. Jdubs

    Jdubs Well-Known Member

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    There are several issues that could be addressed but I’ll only focus on a few. First, one needs to own 500 to 600 or more acres to manage a deer herd; which can be done in almost any state as shown in the Minnesota example above. The problem is most can't afford that much ground regardless of the location.

    Secondly, the comment regarding Iowans not knowing what they have is applicable to the weekend warrior type; not the die hards here. Only 7% of Iowa residents bought a license last year. My resident neighbors in Iowa often comment they cannot understand why I would spend so much, and travel so far, to hunt a whitetail. Both are in their 70's and have never hunted a deer outside of the Hawkeye state.

    In my home state we simply have had too many hunters, 700,000 to 1,000,000 gun hunters depending on the year, armed with multiple doe tags. This practice went on for years decimating the deer herd in the name of QDMA and insurance company pressure. I’ve read varying stats that Iowa ranks between 2-5 in the nation regarding vehicle /deer collisions. If history is telling be prepared for some type of insurance company backed hogwash forthcoming.

    Yes, I do wish I could hunt my Iowa farm more often, but I do commend you guys for fighting the good fight in the name of access and quality.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
  8. sep0667

    sep0667 Land of the Whitetail

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    The # of hunters is going to continue to decline and decline and decline. Access being the main issue IMO. I believe you are right, most people, only get into hunting if they have family or a very close friend that hunts (doesn't have to be deer hunting, wasn't for me). As access gets less and less, largely due to leases or needing to purchase your own land there will be fewer and fewer hunters, resulting in fewer and fewer youth interested in hunting. Not to many adults just decide one day to try hunting, and if they do they certainly are not going to get a lease or buy land just to try it. Andy holy cow, look how much a guided hunt is for game in the west. Hopefully public land will continue to increase. I've never researched it, but isn't hunting something that nearly only the reach or elite partake in in Europe? Is that the future for the U.S.?
     
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  9. Jdubs

    Jdubs Well-Known Member

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    Not to throw a social science component into the mix in relation with diminishing hunter numbers but here it is.

    In my humble opinion a big factor is the increasing liberal mindset promoting divorce and broken families in exchange for govt assistance and votes. The result is fatherless homes that negatively impact kids. Despite many theories dads play an invaluable role not recognized by family law attorneys, bleeding heart legislators and society in general.

    Put simply, there ain’t no fathers teaching kids about the outdoors. I know it’s more complex than mentioned , but it is a variable.
     
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  10. Wi transplant

    Wi transplant PMA Member

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    35 yrs ago my dad said to me want to know how alot of things in the U.S. will end up.? ie. Hunting ? Look at europe . germany .ect. They are further down the society trail than us. Meaning only the land owners and weathy have the luxury of hunting ! Is that us in 40 to 100 yrs ??? Just a thought.

    Sent from my RS501 using Tapatalk
     
  11. Wapsi Tree

    Wapsi Tree Well-Known Member

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  12. Jdubs

    Jdubs Well-Known Member

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    Endorse socialism and that’s what you’ll get!! Most of Europe, def Germany, is socialist. Works great, doesn’t it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
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  13. Wapsi Tree

    Wapsi Tree Well-Known Member

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    Really good discussion here. Could not agree more with the "no guns during rut" crowd. If it were up to me, I would back up the start of gun season another week. Areas of large doe population where I live can see breeding activity well into Dec.

    Here's what I just don't get...

    How can the Wisconsin DNR get away with using a "falling number of hunters" argument when the deer numbers are falling 10 times faster? Is it not obvious that more hunters will only decimate the deer population to nothing? It's like saying there's not enough people at the table to eat that cheeseburger. Just stupid.
     
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  14. northcedar

    northcedar Active Member

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    Illinois wants dead deer. Guessing Iowa soon will, too. I'm sorry for you guys, but it's honestly the way I see it. Govt doesnt want big herds, and bucks are the biggest spreaders of cwd.
     
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  15. Jbohn

    Jbohn Active Member

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    I own ground in Illinois and in the last 12 years we have been on a decline for sure I agree with you guy's I look back at trail pics form 10 years ago , less deer , smaller bucks because of age structure. I am an out of state hunter I live in Maryland and own property In Illinois . I see both sides of it . Talked to folks out there that grew up hunting and now don't have a place to hunt.

    I agree with Skip , Hunters control the trigger and I know we do that on my farm with our own rules , cant control the neighbors. People do miss the big picture , complain but shoot does or smaller bucks to say they got a deer. Hunting is a lot more than puller than trigger for me.. Just love giving back to the resource I have loved all my life.
     
  16. Jdubs

    Jdubs Well-Known Member

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  17. Jdubs

    Jdubs Well-Known Member

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    Jbohn, you just said it. Hunters control the trigger ON THEIR OWN FARM. Most don’t own. They shoot whatever they see when they don’t own. That’s not wrong. Every DNR agency’s goal is to reduce the population. There in lies every DNR dilemma. Let’s appear to care about trophy status while reducing the herd to levels determined by wildlife biologists. Lower deer numbers feeds the budget whether from farmers, insurance companies , hunters etc. Tough battle to win.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2019
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  18. Jbohn

    Jbohn Active Member

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    I agree hunting has to be fun, Everyone is in a different situation .. If you purchase your tag and are legal you can do as you see fit. I hunt in county that was once considered to be at the top so I hear comments about the way it was. Going to sacrifice to turn things around.. I agree states want populations down.. Long road ahead on all topics
     
  19. Hardwood11

    Hardwood11 Trump 2020

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    B9E8D2CC-F4C1-4AA9-9521-BF9786F7206B.jpeg A big problem is hunters can’t pass 2.5 year old bucks. I understand it—they may hunt one weekend and if a buck walks by (not gonna pass it), or they hunt for meat.

    My area is Minnesota has some incredible genetics. Look at this buck for instance ... 13 storable points... super young. Big potential. His chances are slim.

    In Iowa that buck may survive due to the Dec gun season. Age is the key!
     
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  20. Wi transplant

    Wi transplant PMA Member

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    My personal experience is i dont believe the state agencies really dont have a clue how many animals are out there!! I can only speak for the county i live in and surrounding counties here in wi. But the dnr says my county is "above goal" so they gave out 2 doe tags with each license this yr again ! Bow and gun ! Each person could shoot 6 deer !! Well when you can drive around in the evenings and have trouble even seeing a deer or 1 hr with a shining light at night and have trouble seeing a deer ! Something doesnt add up !! Yes certain areas in the state have more than enough but lots of areas are pretty slim!

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  21. Wapsi Tree

    Wapsi Tree Well-Known Member

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    So I did some digging. I'm not calling anyone a liar. I'll leave the finger pointing to you fellas in Wisconsin. I'd like to know what you guys think. The Wisconsin DNR is claiming a nearly 2 million deer population. That's about 4 times the number of deer in Iowa. Total BS? I'll link at the bottom.


    The nine-day gun deer season, though, remains the most significant event in the framework of Wisconsin deer management, both in terms of participants and number of deer killed.

    This year the season runs Nov. 23-Dec. 1.

    An estimated 580,000 hunters are expected to take part.

    Last year hunters registered 219,715 deer (106,038 bucks,113,675 antlerless deer and 2 unknowns) in the nine-day gun deer season, an 11% increase from the previous year.

    Since the last severe winter in Wisconsin in 2013-14, the deer population has been building.

    The statewide post-hunt deer populations were 1.09 million in 2014, 1.18 million in 2015, 1.34 million in 2016, 1.38 million in 2017 and between 1.5 and 1.8 million in 2018, according to DNR reports.

    The deer population has grown during a period of mild winters and as hunting regulations have failed to meet harvest quotas in the farmland units.

    This fall an estimated 1.97 million deer were spread across the state, according to a DNR estimate.

    "We are in the neighborhood of all-time record high deer numbers in Wisconsin," Wallenfang said.

    https://www.jsonline.com/story/spor...-sights-2019-wisconsin-gun-season/4192231002/
     

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