Tree Planting

[dbltree]

Re: Tree Planting - Tree spacing

Definately a learning process and tip #1 prepare the ground the fall before if possible, we didn't and are paying for it.

Great advice! I had to learn all that the hard way too

Looks like your gonna "git er done" one way or the other!

Glad to see your keeping those roots moist, drying winds can kill bareroot seedlings in short order. Just remember not to leave them in water over night as they will drown. Heel them in until ready to plant again.

Thanks for adding to this thread!

 

[dbltree]

Re: Tree Planting - Tree spacing

Being that they'll be out of the ground for 3-4 days, i'm hoping the roots aren't dried out by the time they get here. I'll water them down, when they arrive and get to planting asap.

Normally bare root stock is shipped in a bag inside a plastic bag full of some type of mossy medium to keep the roots moist. They can last a week like that if kept cool.

I like to get them out as soon as they arrive and then heel them in someplace like your garden for instance. Some soft dirt makes it easy to make a trench, spread out the seedlings and then re-cover and water. The can last weeks like that allowing you to plant some each night after work or wait until a weekend.

Just remember "air" is a roots worst enemy! Don't just cover them but pack them also. Plant in the same manner...make sure the roots aren't just covered but the soil firmly packed.

This thread already mentions it but use some care not to -J- the roots but try to tuck them straight down. Not always possible but that's what works the best for the seedling.

Good luck!

 

[dbltree]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

There is a lot of herbicide information if you read back thru this thread but here are some great links just to bring the subject back to the forefront.

Just remember that some herbicides are ok for evergreens but not other trees so always always read the labels!

Effective Herbicide Use in Christmas Tree Plantations

This link is an excellent list!

Timing of Herbicide Application

Herbicides registered for Wisconsin tree planting

Weed control in tree plantings

Those will get you started or at least confused!

 

[Joey Rott]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

I received the package of trees yesterday. It's amazing, the amount of tree's that can be crammed into one box. Everything was packaged real well, and still very moist. The trees looked great, with full & long roots. Most of the 4-8" Spruce tree's I ordered where actually 10-18", with lots of them being in the 20-24" range...which was a nice suprise.

My wife and I were able to plant about 175 trees in almost 3 hours last evening. We'll finish up the rest tonight & Saturday. The weather is misty, humid, and cloudy...perfect planting weather. I'll post some pictures next week.


Here are a few pics of the trees I planted this Spring. The recent rain has been great.

http://hunting.net/fieldjournal/fieldjournal_detail.aspx?nID=934

I checked them out yesterday, and noticed that bugs are eating many of the leaves on the deciduous trees. Maybe I missed the mention of it on this forum, but would you recommend spraying insecticides on the trees? And if so, are there any in particular you recommend, that I might be able to pick up locally(home depot, walmart, orschelins, etc)? Thanks

 

[dbltree]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

bugs are eating many of the leaves on the deciduous trees.

Now that's something I don't recall ever having a problem with?

I would think any horticulture type spray for insects would work. I have also seen people using dish soap mixed heavily with water sprayed on garden produce that they didn't want chemicals on.

Perhaps someone else may have dealt with this problem and could better answer your question but let us know what you end up using.

You might also consider checking with your local extension service office or a state forestor if you have them in your area.

Your plantings look great!

 

[Fishbonker]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

I used fruit tree spray on my persimmons last year and it worked fine. In the past I have used regualr old garden spray from Earl May. I think they call it "Eight" because some other company already had "Sevin". Actually I think there is more of a difference between the two. Sevin is a carbaryl and I think Eight is a perithroid, not sure though. I'm not sure what the active ingredient in the fruit tree spray is, but it killed the crap outta the aphids that were sucking them dry.

The 'Bonker

 

[SaskGuy]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

You may want to try malathion (sp?) on the deciduous trees. I've used it here on my apple and birch trees with some success.

I'm not expert by any strecth but good choice on the hybrid poplar, they grow in a hurry here so there I'm imgaing they'll do even better. Again, I'm no expert, but if you're planning on doing some more next year and you want to try some more conifers, give Scots pine a look. I planted some, they grow alot faster than spruce trees tend to and are,...well, pretty to look at as well. Trees are definately fun to play around with, when we bought our 20 acres, 18 were solid timber, I immediately began hammering different types onto the open 2 acres. Soil type has only allowed success with a couple different pines, spruce, birch, willow and a few different fruit trees. I wish I was going to be alive to see how my trees look like when they are finally fully mature.

I read your journal entry, good write up. Though it is work, monkeying around on your own property to make it more beautiful and habitable to wildlife is definately fun.

 

[Joey Rott]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

I went into town over the weekend, and even though there wasn't much of a selection, I was able to find an insecticide that was for trees & gardens. It had the active ingredient of pemethrin in it, which is the same stuff I've always used on my hunting clothes with good success. We'll see how it works.

Thanks for the recommendations on the tree's. I tried a few other varieties as well in groups of 5-10, moreso as a test to see what grew good and what didn't. I'll make another order next year and try some more types as well.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

I tried a few other varieties as well in groups of 5-10, moreso as a test to see what grew good and what didn't

Great idea before you invest in thousands only to find out they don't do well in your area or on your soil types.

This is some High Bush Cranberry on my place on some rich, moist low ground. It does "ok" on the higher ground but has never reached the height that these have. All were planted the same day, same year, same farm...just different soil type.

I planted some nannyberry and red osier dogwood two years ago side by side on the same type of moist low ground...the dogwoods have not survived while the nannyberries are thriving.

Should have been ideal conditions for the dogwood so I don't know if it was the seedlings or what?

12 years ago we planted thousands of sargent crabapples at the same time as the highbush cranberry, autumn olive and other trees.

Not a single crabapple is there today...again I'm not sure why but it pays to "test" a few before one goes gungho planting thousands.

 

[Joey Rott]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

Good info. Here are some of my results.

All of my tree's are virtually on the same type of soil, which is a lowland area that used to be pasture many years ago. Like you, I planted 5 dogwoods, and made sure they were watered once or twice a week, but none of them grew.

Another odd one...I ordered 25 Colorado Blue Spruce and 250 Norway Spruce. All of the Blue Spruces are alive, while I have about an 80% survival rate on the Norways so far. I know the success would've been better if I was able to get water to them more often but it's odd there was a such a difference. I also have 5 Red Pines right next to the Blue Spruces. Only 1 is still alive.

I had 5 quaking aspen which were doing great, but for some reason in the past 2 week, 4 of the 5 lost the new leaves and are wilting. I'm not sure what happened, as they were watered twice a week.

I have 100 Red Oaks, 25 Sawtooth Oaks, and 25 English Oaks which were all planted intermittenly together. Most of the Reds haven't done anything yet, where majority of the Sawtooth and English Oaks have leaves. Maybe the Reds will eventually start to grow...only time will tell.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

Last weekend I was in town and went to the Pamida store. They were having a tree sale where everything was 90% off. So I loaded the SUV with as many tree's I could handle. I got Redbuds, Oaks, and mostly 2 different types of crabapples. The tree's ranged from 4-8' tall, and many of the crabapples tree were loaded full of apples.

I don't really have any experience with crabapples, but I assumed the deer would like them. Does anyone have any experiences with them?

I bought 16 for $13 so I figured, they'd be a "pretty" aditional, if nothing else.

They make better screens and small wildlife feed but deer will eat them. They will also thrash them to death so don't forget the fencing!



Great time of year to p/u trees they are trying to get rid of for sure.

 

[Sligh1]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

Went to NRCS today, applied for funding on about 5 acres of tree plantings, like the idiot I can be- I'll again do them by hand (someday I might learn my lesson). I am going to buy a big thing of Oust, it's about $475, unless I know of a good place to get by the oz?

I am thinking of doing planting next spring as I try and rest in the fall and hunt. I have never used OUST, could I spray either fall or spring before I put in seedlings and be ok? Also, could I obviously spray and direct seed acorns, walnuts, other nuts, etc.??? LASTLY, can I spray over seedlings I put in THIS SPRING (spray them next spring) before they bud out, say in March-ish?

You'd make fun of me driving down the road in the fall, stopping by "good" trees that I constantly "scan" for to pick up their acrons, nuts, berries, etc. I can tell you where in the state the good Persimmons, acorns, etc are!

*Bring a box, broom, etc with you if you dare look dorky like me.

 

[dbltree]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

I am going to buy a big thing of Oust, it's about $475, unless I know of a good place to get by the oz?

I am thinking of doing planting next spring as I try and rest in the fall and hunt. I have never used OUST, could I spray either fall or spring before I put in seedlings and be ok? Also, could I obviously spray and direct seed acorns, walnuts, other nuts, etc.??? LASTLY, can I spray over seedlings I put in THIS SPRING (spray them next spring) before they bud out, say in March-ish?

Townsend Chemical Division Will sell it by the ounce but last I knew Oust is a restricted use pesticide in Iowa...so ship it to a friend in another state...don't ask me how I know

I bought 10 ounces and still have 9 I think so let's see how much you need before you order any.

IMO..the best time/way is to spray Oust and Roundup in the fall to prepare for next springs seedlings. Spray in October and you'll have nice clean strips to plant into next spring.

Oust is pretty potent stuff so the residual will last nearly two years and it is possible to kill seedlings if you "overdose" them after planting.

Read all the restrictions and warnings but you can apply before budding next spring or around the base even now.

If the correct amount is applied evenly then I'm sure you could direct seed but things like that I prefer to try a small area. Direct seeding 10 acres of oak acorns that you swept up only to kill them with a herbicde would be..."not good"

 

[dbltree]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

Yes, RUP, not a problem though.
I know I read something somewhere before BUT, do you recommend the Oust Extra or Oust XP?
THANKS!

I use XP but I'm not sure it really makes a bunch of difference

 

[dbltree]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

Would you dare to spray trees with 2,4-d OR is that a big no-no?

That would be a big 10-4 on the NO-NO

2-4D kills broadleafs including trees.

Grass herbicides are pretty safe for most trees but broadleaf herbicides are another story

 

[Sligh1]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

With the Oust XP, I know I have seen you do some acreage calculations (total of 1 oz to acre I think is recommended if you're killing a whole acre considering square feet) AND considering a 3 gallon hand sprayer to mix to spray ROWS, BOTTOM LINE- do you feel like you're safe with 1 oz of Oust per 3 gallons of water in a hand sprayer? I think that's what you mentioned earlier, and just making sure you have not had any problem killing anything existing OR new plantings with a 1 oz per 3 gallons?

For some acorns and other SEED plantings- I might try either killing area with Round-up really good and doing 1 of 2 options, option 1- killing with Round-up in fall, once plants sprout next spring (spring seeding as well), bucket spray round-up in this next spring/summer (when seedlings are getting going), when the weeds get too big OR
Option 2- also spray a very light amount of Oust (this fall), say 1/4 oz or 1/2 oz in the 3 gallon sprayer. I do like your idea of trying small areas. Which of the options you guys recommend, or a 3rd option for starting from seed?

 

[dbltree]

Re: Tree Planting - Herbicides

If you apply the proper rate then it is perfectly safe but for a new planned planting, I feel fall spraying Oust is safer then spraying around newly spring planted seedlings.

A few months of winter, freezing and thawing etc. moves the oust away from the soil surface and "takes the edge off" so to speak.

Seedlings are already stressed so that makes it impossible to tell if mortality is from herbicide or "natural causes"

I haven't had any "mass" die offs even of newly planted seedlings using Oust but it is potent stuff.

So much nicer planting into bare soil the next spring rather then fighting grass and sod as your trying to push bare roots into a hole...

I always use roundup to kill existing vegatation but oust is the residual that keeps it from coming back. Whole lot nicer band spraying in October then having to cover and spray in 90 degree heat

Direct seedings reccommend using Oust the year after seedling rather the seeding year. It may prevent germination...not sure but here is a good link that touches on herbicides for direct seeding.

Direct Seeding Hardwoods

Direct Seeding project

 

[dbltree]

When planting trees into a brome field, if I demolish the brome in the rows themselves BUT don't kill the brome between the rows, think that will be ok?
Basically, my trees will have a couple feet on both sides BUT I do worry a touch about the brome creeping back in. Thoughts?

I mow the centers in mine but yes, brome will "creep" back in. That's not a problem because most trees/shrubs will, in 2-3 years be high enough to be above grasses.

We don't want bare ground there for 10 years.. just long enough to give em a head start!

 

[dbltree]

Talked to Agronomist the other day and he recommended Atrazine for trees, said it was pretty much the same as Simazine BUT cheaper, said it works the same way. Thoughts????

Atrazine is more effective then simazine and safe for conifers and established trees but check the label carefully before using it on everything...

 

[Sligh1]

I did some exciting and light Sunday reading today. Read the labels on Oust XP and some other Pre-emergents AND I read the IA DNR's Tree planting, weed control PDF.

Both mention the possibility of Oust being very hard on newly planted trees (oust label did have a section for new transplants though). Those sources and couple others I read said some of the pre-emergents and Oust can STUNT GROWTH 1st year or possibly kill (dbltree did not sound like you've ever had problem with killing the trees though).

Would anyone ever recommend just spraying Round-up the 1st year so there's no stunting of trees (or the slight risk of killing them from Pre-emergents)??? Then bucket spray later possibly if needed (which it pry will be). Another thing I considered was putting just a tiny amount in my 3-gallon sprayer- putting regular amount of round-up + tiny amount of Oust (.25-.5 oz) and maybe a very small amount of Atrazine (1/4 - 1/2 a pint)- Spray that this fall. Have you read this OR have opinion on my above idea from what I read today? (I am planting a huge variety of trees and shrubs from DNR so I kind of want to do the mimimum if one variety doesn't handle chemicals well).