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Farm manager

deerdown

Well-Known Member
Anyone on here use one, or have used one? How do they get compensated? What's reasonable?
I met an agronomist today to talk about how to better manage my farms, from soil health, to setting rent, to amending soil if necessary, to writing a lease. He's interested in doing some work for me in this regard. Next step is determining a fair compensation for his help.
Any input on how to arrange something like this? Anyone have experience in this?
Thanks
 
How many acres are you dealing with? (Tillable). What part of the state? I help a lot of folks out (for free somehow :confused::rolleyes:o_O) but I enjoy doing it. Do u happen to know ur CSR2 ratings, etc? Lemme know some basic figures on what u have & go from there...

on building soil & soil health.... thats generally “consultant” cost or possibly free advice but clearly there’s usually an angle to someone being compensated. Or it’s usually done on a % basis for full management.... 5% for example. Actually- what u describe- a % like this is most likely the route & fair. It’s a great route to go if u can get a plan or a tenant that’s willing to do cover crops, varieties of them, maybe some rotations, no till, manure/grazing, etc., etc. this is a huge can of worms but the fact u r starting down this path is fantastic. Little by little u can learn this & partnered with a good tenant & agronomist- there’s a lot of improvement you could implement. Very well could be well worth a % to manage all this.

As much info on your soil, goals, size, problems, etc is helpful. Great topic!!!! Complex yet doable & great!!
 
I appreciate the thoughts. This might be a good thread to outline the process I go through, and get feedback along the way. Maybe others will find it helpful on their farms.

So, I'm looking at understanding, and amending soil where needed, and maintaining the health of the soil ongoing as goal #1. Goal #2 is to try and determine a fair rental rate for the current soil, and increasing rent where I can get the soil in better condition. I want the tenant to partner with me in meeting my goals by sharing yields, possibly sharing in soil sample costs, and fertilizing as expected. I expect liming costs will be out of my pocket.

I may have mislabeled the help I want as a farm manager. I want an agronomist to be more of an advisor on the above. I don't plan to farm myself, or custom farm, but I need someone knowledgeable to ensure that I and the tenant are doing what we need to improve soils, and yields. I expect to pay as I go with the advisor, and expect it to be a minimum of 3 year engagement until I have enough knowledge to manage it myself.

Case in point. Farm 1, 82a tillable, tiled and terraced, decent slopes, owned it for 3 years. Just learned tonight it was last limed 10 years ago. Same tenant for 10 years. No soil test available since I owned it. I did get fertilizer receipts for the last 2 years on it. Not exactly sure how to read those. Beans yielded 48bu last year. Is in corn this year. Was in corn in 2018 and I think it yielded 130bu, but wasn't a great year for anyone for corn in the area. I planted 11a of winter rye as a cover crop last year on it. Plan to do 11a of wheat this year on it on the higher sloped areas. This will be my biggest focal point this year as the farm should be a good producer if taken care of.

Farm 2: 41a tillable. Bottom ground 0-2% slopes, tiled. Produced 58bu beans last year. I have a soil test from 2019, 3.3 organic matter, 52P, 153 K, pH 7.3, Sulfur 6, Zinc 2.6. I just received this today. This farm appears to be in decent shape. Most the levels noted in the soil test are medium, or Very High, except for Sulfur, which is very low.

Farm 3: Uggggg 110a tillable. Soil test 2014. Organic 5.1, P was 16, K was 481, 6.5 pH. Current tenant doesn't believe in soil tests, doesn't do them.....already know what I need to do there... 30bu beans in 2018, corn was 127bu last year (he said he just threw a bunch of his leftover corn bags in the planter and planted it on June 4th), and beans this year....... Farm is half 5-9 slopes, thin top soil, thinking this farm might be best in crp. The agronomist I talked to last weekend knows the farm and said it's thin, crp might be best, but I told him I wanted to start with new soil tests and decided from there. I may not have enough time on this earth to bring this one back....we'll see. From the 2014 soil test it doesn't look that bad, but...I need a new soil test.

That's where I'm at....

The farms are in NW Mo. So CSR2 ratings don't apply. I think they use NCCPI for Mo, but I don't know how to find that yet....
 
People's Company has a farm management side. From what i've seen from publications they "seem" to have their shit together. No first hand experience... just throwing it out there.
 
Hire a good agronomist, and run away from farm managers. They're crooks. They usually get payed extremely well for doing very little. Sounds like you just need some consulting, try to pay someone by the hour. Find out what is a strong, yet fair, rent for the area. Make sure tenants don't mine the fertility from your land. Demand, in contract, all receipts and records. Or you can play it differently, have the fertilizer applied yourself and have it negotiated in a higher rent. Sometimes landlords will get the ph up to an acceptable level, then the contract will state the tenant must maintain. I'd do a straight cash rent. Easier that way. I'd get paid in full by 3/1. Or you could split it 3/1 and 11/1. If you want it the more complicated way, crop-share is sometimes considered more fair to the farmer. Or you could just keep it simple and lower the cash rent if you feel like it.
 
Do you have a farm lease you'd be willing to share on how the records are provided and the wording in the contact?
 
Hire a good agronomist, and run away from farm managers. They're crooks. They usually get payed extremely well for doing very little. Sounds like you just need some consulting, try to pay someone by the hour. Find out what is a strong, yet fair, rent for the area. Make sure tenants don't mine the fertility from your land. Demand, in contract, all receipts and records. Or you can play it differently, have the fertilizer applied yourself and have it negotiated in a higher rent. Sometimes landlords will get the ph up to an acceptable level, then the contract will state the tenant must maintain. I'd do a straight cash rent. Easier that way. I'd get paid in full by 3/1. Or you could split it 3/1 and 11/1. If you want it the more complicated way, crop-share is sometimes considered more fair to the farmer. Or you could just keep it simple and lower the cash rent if you feel like it.
I agree. Only thing I would change is if you do a split payment, I would make the second half due September 1st. That way if they don't pay the second half rent, then you have time to put a lien on the crop. By November 1st the crop could already be sold.
 
I used to do split payments and now require full payment by 3/1. Takes any guesswork out of it for me.
Here's the fertilizer put down for corn for this year. How do I read this? Was it enough fert? He said he also put down 150 anhydrous, but didn't provide a receipt for it.20200910_110943.jpg
 
Is it good deer hunting land??, If so, iffn you let me have exclusive rights, I'll give advice for a real small fee:cool:
 
I used to do split payments and now require full payment by 3/1. Takes any guesswork out of it for me.
Here's the fertilizer put down for corn for this year. How do I read this? Was it enough fert? He said he also put down 150 anhydrous, but didn't provide a receipt for it.View attachment 119846
What are yields like on this ground. The nutrient removal rates are vastly different on 250 bushel corn vs 150. I know iowa state has removal rates based on yields.
 
Based on AgPHD, if I estimate 150bu corn, there should have been 100.5 lbs N;52.5lb P; 37.5lbs K, 12lbs S, 5lbs Mg, and 2.03lbs Calcium..
From the receipts provided, per acre fert was short 2.5lbs P, over 12.5lbs K, and short all S, Mg, and Calcium.....
From what he told me, he put on an extra 60lbs of N than what was required. He said in addition to the N that was in the MAP, he added 150lbs of anhydrous. AgPHD calls for 100.5 lbs N.

I don't know what he estimated for corn yields, so that's key to if fert was short, excess, close, etc.

Anything I'm missing in my numbers? Should I be concerned about the lack of Sulfur, Mg, and Calcium being applied? Is that something you guys watch for?

Do you require soil tests yearly? Fert receipts? Yields? You pay for lime or share cost? What's your routine?
 
Just a comment on the anhydrous ammonia at 150 lbs.
If you put down 150 lbs. of material with hydrous being 82% that is 123 lbs of actual nitrogen.
Just need to make sure you're talking the same, material or actual
 
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P, K & Lime will be the ones you're going to want to keep an eye on for mining. Sulfur is a biggie, but the way it get's applied and used by the plant, it's basically season to season. Like N. Many guys aren't adding much if any extra sulfur. Yields will probably suffer to varying degrees in it's absence. I'd say soil tests every few years, not yearly. Lime can be handled in different ways. Lime may only need to be applied every 4 or 5 years. It can be prorated, reimbursed, left alone, built up by landowner then passed off to a longterm tenant, etc. If a tenant pays for liming, then gets booted, they should probably be paid some money. Just get things in writing. My family bought an investment farm half a state away. The original farmers retired after the next year. We put an ad out and it was rented quickly. The former tenants had let the ph slip. We are gradually building it back to 6.5, then it'll be the current tenant's responsibility.
 
P, K & Lime will be the ones you're going to want to keep an eye on for mining. Sulfur is a biggie, but the way it get's applied and used by the plant, it's basically season to season. Like N. Many guys aren't adding much if any extra sulfur. Yields will probably suffer to varying degrees in it's absence. I'd say soil tests every few years, not yearly. Lime can be handled in different ways. Lime may only need to be applied every 4 or 5 years. It can be prorated, reimbursed, left alone, built up by landowner then passed off to a longterm tenant, etc. If a tenant pays for liming, then gets booted, they should probably be paid some money. Just get things in writing. My family bought an investment farm half a state away. The original farmers retired after the next year. We put an ad out and it was rented quickly. The former tenants had let the ph slip. We are gradually building it back to 6.5, then it'll be the current tenant's responsibility.

Thanks for the feedback and what to keep an eye on. I am super curious what my 82a tillable farm will show for pH. It's open for 2021 so a good time to have a discussion with the tenant on go-forward requirements. I plan to stick some money into the farm if needed, then put it on the tenant to keep it up. He's been good to work with, just not been necessarily watchful of the soils. We need to agree to both be concerned about it.

Like Skip said in another post, I will require notill. I'm going to watch soil health going forward, and going to start records to document baselines, and amendments over time.

I wonder why guys aren't adding sulfur if it will help yields. Is it that expensive? Or they don't have recent soil tests to know it's levels?
 
As far as sulfur, it wasn't needed as an amendment several years back. It was coming "free" from the sky. Air got cleaned up, and guys started noticing a deficiency. It's an added expense. Some guys, some soils, probably don't think it's as critical. Markets have been down for several years, inputs need to pay. Here's a thread just today on the ag forum about sulfur:

https://talk.newagtalk.com/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=949157&mid=8487983#M8487983

Mesz is a product we've been using and like. Also use ATS and AMS depending on the year and pricing. And here's a good read on Sulfur:

https://www.agry.purdue.edu/ext/corn/news/timeless/sulfurdeficiency.pdf
 
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