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Late Rifle Season and AR Hunters

This post may start some adversarial responses which is not my intention. I want to hear opinions from other hunters. I do realize that not everyone is a trophy hunter and take to woods for other reasons than harvesting a Boone and Crocket Whitetail. I myself am a serious trophy hunter and have a strong opinion and can't really understand why this season exists at this time of the year. I have not lived in Iowa all my life but have been here almost 20 years, so I have experienced all of what has made Iowa probably the best place in the United States for Whitetail hunting. I have hunted deer throughout the Country and sometimes an opinion of an outsider holds more credibility because I have seen the other side. It's human nature and we are all guilty of not knowing how good we have it......., let me tell the natives of Iowa you got it!!!!! Iowa is the Disney World and Las Vegas for Whitetail hunters. Is it the soil, the genetics, minerals or just a gift, either way the deer are here. I think now we are faced with a serious question, are the Trophy deer here to stay or is the quality that makes our state so special going to change. I think weather you are a after the big bucks or a meat hunter you can still appreciate the opportunity to see a world class deer that many hunters can only dream about. Technology in weapons that are becoming legal for deer hunting makes kills more proficient which is a hard argument to contradict, but the fact is, it definitely changes the age structure of our deer. Rifle cartridges and cross bows that are banging very hard on Iowa D&R doors is a big threat. Very quickly we can just be just another state to go deer hunting in. The late season rifle season is one I have tried very hard to understand, mostly the timing of the season itself. Controlling the population of deer is the goal of every state. Increasing the population of Trophy Bucks has never been the goal for the D&R and I understand, but the possibility of killing many off when they should not, I don't understand. It seems that having the season in the fall would be more affective and less risk of killing bucks. I know I am the minority in this one because I feel the shooting and presence of hunters in the timber would smarten the bucks up quickly and give them more of an edge. It definitely makes the challenge a bit more and levels the playing field for the deer. Going back to the issue of this post, is why does a deer hunter need an assault rifle with a 20-round clip for deer hunting? I have an AR and it is fun to shoot and have no problem with people having them, but not for deer hunting. I heard a late season hunter say that the extended season is "better than playing Call OF Duty". That statement was what inspired this post. I would like to hear other hunters' thoughts.
 

Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
Think this post is SPOT ON!!!!!! Think u echo more hunters sentiments than you realize. This mindset is also backed by data, science & facts. Iowa is a special place. It’s not an unlimited resource though!! It’s a fragile system. Great to have more people chime in that have experienced the disasters we see in most other Midwest states. Your voice is appreciated, dead on & more folks need to hear & think about these things!!!
 

Handcannon

Well-Known Member
I agree that comment about COD was stupid. But I think, hopefully, it was a poor try at comedy, trying to be funny.

If we want these extra seasons & high quota numbers to stop, we have have to stop the lobbyists from getting to those that make the rules. FB, for example, is a huge one that has a lot of say in how we manage our deer herd.

OK, while I agree with 99% of your post, with 1 word...you hit my sore spot. It is illegal to own an assault rifle...unless you paid your $200 to uncle sam, for each weapon, to be given the ability to have such a weapon. Very few of us could even afford such a weapon, they are insanely expensive. AR does not stand for assault rifle. It stands for Armalite Rifle, a company that started building these semi-automatic rifles long ago. These firearms are vilified constantly & when you get down to the heart of it, they are no different than a Marlin model 60, semi-auto shotgun or pistol. All are semi-auto, doesn't matter what they look like or the mag capacity or how they look.
 

Windlooker

Well-Known Member
An assault rifle does not have to be fully auto or a sbr to qualify as an “assault rifle”. A semi AR .223 , with proper barrel length, and a 30 round mag IS an assault rifle even though it’s not a NFA weapon registered with ATF. Imo why was the AR .223 manufactured and what is its primary purpose.

Keep in mind I own one and carried one for 25 years. This gun is meant to send as many rounds down range, at multiple targets, as quickly and accurately ( little recoil to maintain sight picture) as possible. That’s an assault rifle.

Furthermore the .223 round was chosen because it enters its target (humans), hits bone tissue muscle, that deflects the round throughout the body causing extensive internal damage; while exiting at an alternate location than entry. Auto or semi the weapon is meant to kill. Period.
 
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Handcannon

Well-Known Member
An assault rifle does not have to be fully auto or a sbr to qualify as an “assault rifle” imo. A semi AR .223 , with proper barrel length, and a 30 round mag IS an assault rifle even though it’s not a NFA weapon registered with ATF. Imo why was the AR .223 manufactured and what is its primary purpose.

Keep in mind I own one and carried one for 25 years. This gun is meant to send as many rounds down range, at multiple targets, as quickly and accurately ( little recoil to maintain sight picture) as possible. That’s an assault rifle.

Furthermore the .223 round was chosen because it enters its target (humans), hits bone tissue muscle, that deflects the round throughout the body causing extensive internal damage; while exiting at an alternate location than entry. Auto or semi the weapon is meant to kill. Period.
All weapons are meant to kill.
 

Darrin

Member
why does a deer hunter need an assault rifle with a 20-round clip for deer hunting?
I use my assault rifle because I wanted less recoil than a 12 gauge slug and I wanted an auto-loader. I also wanted more readily available and cheaper ammo. I already had an assault rifle so it was more cost-effective for me to buy a .350 upper. I also use a 10-round mag with it only half full for more reliable feeding. It does the job of killing deer just fine.

You also said that they are fun to shoot, which I agree with. More range time with your hunting weapon of choice is never a bad thing in my opinion. You won't catch me shooting slugs just for fun.

Yes, the late rifle season is ridiculous, but if I were hunting it I'd be using my non-assault rifle. Not every deer hunter with a scary black gun is playing real-life COD or using it because it looks cool. Hopefully, those folks are in the minority, but I'm not around enough other hunters to know.
 

MisterTwoForty

New Member
I am happy to be the dissenting opinion here, when it comes to legal rifle calibers. The addition of straight wall, and now the .35-.500 requirement for the shotgun seasons was a step forward. They are more accurate, easier to carry, cheaper to shoot often, and much easier to mount a scope on. They increase effective range somewhat, and should result in fewer deer being wounded. Leaving it at straight wall only would have been fine, but I think that's the most common weapon being used anyhow (350L, 450BM, 44Mag, 45-70).

The late antlerless season is only in a few counties, not the entire state. Not ideal for those counties but is being reviewed as deer numbers start to meet objective.

Also, an assault rifle by definition is a select fire weapon, so an AR15 is not an assault rifle. Any attempt to say that an AR15 is an assault rifle will always be false, they do not meet the definition. If you didnt know this, do some research on the subject.

Calling an AR15 an assault rifle just gives fuel to the antis, so stop doing it.

Every year this forum bitches about deer drives, rifles being used, and the janury antlerless season.
 

Windlooker

Well-Known Member
Now we’re playing verbal judo with the definition of an assault rifle in the dictionary. What is the purpose of an AR 15 in .223 caliber , semi auto; with multiple 30 round mags carried on ones person?? I’ll tell you the reason.

The US armed forces and Tac Teams carry the .223 in an AR platform, mostly semi btw. Whatever they do when they engage the enemy ie attack, assault, make contact. That is what it’s for.

A bump stock isn’t fully auto by definition either. But it sure makes a firearm operate like one. Look, I’m a gun owner an AR owner, but I don’t play the nra definition bullshit to maintain an agenda.

What fuels the antis are disingenuous comments like yours saying a semi AR isn’t meant to “assault”. That sounds like a Dumocrat saying the border is secure. Be truthful and support with facts.
 
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My intention of this post was not to be about AR by definition, as I am not opposed to the gun. I have one and really enjoy shooting it. I was interested in hearing the opinions of hunters on why high-capacity rifles be used during our late deer season. I know some states had a 3 round capacity limit. If you can't hit a deer with 3 shots, you chalk that one up for the deer. I do get the feeling that there are a lot of hunters that do think the late season is ridiculous.
 

Mike311

Active Member
When thinking of herd management and the practices there of by chance does anyone ever think about the ultra high value put on trophy bucks and what that creates in regards to access. One could argue access has reduced dramatically statewide with the advent of trophy buck hunting from the sale and leasing of land for exclusive access only trophy buck hunting. With reduced access hunters leave the sport and less and less young people get into the sport. Less hunters equals less deer harvested hence more options for method of take and when are introduced to help lure more interest into harvesting anterless deer to reduce the numbers. Yet here you are yammering about definitions of guns, hammering Farm Bureau and spending $5-$10k on property assessments. Hmmmmm
 

Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
Let’s not get too caught up in the “which guns”. This is very simple…. Long range shooting at deer AFTER 4 months of season & 6 deer seasons has ended. After January 10 & close to getting into February. This is crazy. As of NOW it doesn’t impact all counties. That can change in an instant.
All this results in: Folks like Farm Bureau, etc get a WIN, hunters, access, management & a fragile resource lose. No more. We don’t need any more seasons!!!!!! Jan 10 should be the end of it!!! If I had my magic wand, id probably end it Jan 1.
Slippery slope when politicians & special interests dictate so much of deer season & how it’s managed. The actual hunters need to be a huge part of this and need to write in and voice their point of view.
 
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It is so important to contact our politicians. Speaking up about things we are not in favor of does make a difference. When decisions are made by people that don't hear the voices of the hunters and have limited knowledge of our sport, it becomes easy for all of this to become a Runaway Train. For so many of us deer hunting is a more than just a hobby. Sending even a short email brings attention to the simple fact that we are involved, and we are not happy with a poorly run division of government.
 

ElkFever2

Member
I enjoy hunting the late Jan season. It is a fun time of year to be outside and I like rifle hunting. Last season I tagged a shed antler buck on public land.

That being said, I am 100% for getting rid of this season. Iowa's world class deer hunting faces ongoing threats from many places, just a few of which are necked cartridges, seasons too late in the winter, Farm Bureau, and ever-expanding push for "opportunity" that ignores the elephant in the room of dwindling access to places to hunt.

Perhaps a compromise is limiting the harvest to does and fawns only. It takes patience and more attention to detail to sex a deer, but it's completely doable. Maybe that would cut into the "Call of Duty" crowd a bit too, which wouldn't bother me one bit. Many tags in western states sell ungulate tags that require distinguishing between females and males missing their headgear.
 

fatboy

Well-Known Member
An assault rifle does not have to be fully auto or a sbr to qualify as an “assault rifle”. A semi AR .223 , with proper barrel length, and a 30 round mag IS an assault rifle even though it’s not a NFA weapon registered with ATF. Imo why was the AR .223 manufactured and what is its primary purpose.

Keep in mind I own one and carried one for 25 years. This gun is meant to send as many rounds down range, at multiple targets, as quickly and accurately ( little recoil to maintain sight picture) as possible. That’s an assault rifle.

Furthermore the .223 round was chosen because it enters its target (humans), hits bone tissue muscle, that deflects the round throughout the body causing extensive internal damage; while exiting at an alternate location than entry. Auto or semi the weapon is meant to kill. Period.
The term assault rifle or assault weapon is a term made up by the left. For someone who carried one for 25 years would know that. Being someone that carried the weapon for many years myself and still training are great warriors today as a contractor, AR were the initials of ArmaLite by George Sullivan in the 1950's inventing the AR-5, a takedown bolt action .22 survival rifle for the Airforce.

ArmaLite sold the Ar-15 design to Colt in 1959 and in 1963 the M16 was released. This was a fully auto firearm, not like the AR-15 released to the civilian market in the late 80's being semiautomatic. originally using round .223 , the military went to the 5.56x45 round, although identical the 5.56x45 has higher camber pressures and should not be used in a firearm specifically chambered for .223.
 

Windlooker

Well-Known Member
I know what AR stands for. Yes I carried one. It’s an assault, attack, deter, whatever term you wish to use , weapon. Why didn’t we carry muzzle loaders or a 5 round bolt action .243?? To ignore WHY the weapon was created is disingenuous. Again another verbal judo guy and a history lesson, but you forgot the why behind the invention.

Answer that question. WHY was the AR in .223/5.56 created? WHY do LE tac teams and all branches of the military carry it into battle, mostly in the semi auto format btw?

What the antis can’t comprehend, and I DISAGREE with them, is what purpose a cartridge/weapon designed for war has in civilian life. We all tell them but they’ll never get it.
 
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MisterTwoForty

New Member
Why does it matter what it was designed for? It can be used very well in hunting applications for a variety of animals based on utilizing different uppers with calibers suitable for the game you are chasing.
 

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