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Starting to think cell cams….

newfarmer

Member
My Father in Law has my app login- and sends me a message tonight. There must be something wrong with "x"camera location, I watched deer go past it tonight and didnt see them in the app. If I would have known deer were crossing there lately I would have sat there....
My wife wont let me turn the cameras to only send once a day (or take any of my stands down for that matter) because we just cant do that to him..... oh the frustrations
 

JNRBRONC

Moderator
In my most extremely humble opinion, cell cams are clearly illegal already. From the IDNR...

You may not use dogs, domestic animals, bait, radios, handguns, rifles and crossbows (except as described on p. 38), automobiles, aircraft, drones, electronic calls or any mechanical conveyance or device to hunt deer.

Unless I'm reading this wrong (I do think it's poorly written) it says no radios. Cell phones are radios that use microwave. I also read this as saying no electronic devices. What am I missing???

I’m not reading that passage that way. Cell cams are not “electronic calls” nor a “mechanical conveyance or device”. I’d call it an electronic device maybe. Splitting hairs like some people do with the 2A.


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Wapsi Tree Rat

Well-Known Member
I’m not reading that passage that way. Cell cams are not “electronic calls” nor a “mechanical conveyance or device”. I’d call it an electronic device maybe. Splitting hairs like some people do with the 2A.


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Then a question for you....

Would it be illegal for me to call or text someone who is hunting to let them know I saw a giant and it is headed right for their current stand location? I was always under the impression that this is not legal. Am I mistaken here?
 

newfarmer

Member
Then a question for you....

Would it be illegal for me to call or text someone who is hunting to let them know I saw a giant and it is headed right for their current stand location? I was always under the impression that this is not legal. Am I mistaken here?
It is not legal, you are correct. I was told once that anything deer related if you are hunting could get you in a bind. Example-
Hey Bob, saw a big deer in the south side of the section the fenceline.
Bob says- ok I will check it out.
That could get you in trouble (obviously it was take more reasoning, but it could happen)
 

Wapsi Tree Rat

Well-Known Member
It is not legal, you are correct. I was told once that anything deer related if you are hunting could get you in a bind. Example-
Hey Bob, saw a big deer in the south side of the section the fenceline.
Bob says- ok I will check it out.
That could get you in trouble (obviously it was take more reasoning, but it could happen)
I have to assume your example takes place on a phone or radio conversation?
 

JNRBRONC

Moderator
Didn’t Babe Winkleman get busted in Minnesota for using a phone?

CB radios are allowed for coyotes but not deer, seems a double standard.

But in both cases, there was a person on both ends. I think the DNR might care to clarify this verbiage in code rather than leave it to the discretion of the officer.


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Wapsi Tree Rat

Well-Known Member
I just feel like a cell cam pic arriving on a phone in real time is far more advantageous than a phone call from a buddy saying, Yo, I see a big buck. One is legal and the other is not. I don't get it.

Pretty soon there will be an app that estimates gross score, foot speed, and coordinates heading. Plug in your target score and you will receive a text saying "shooter will arrive within 3 minutes, 24yds away from your current location. Probability 73%". What will be our conversation then?
 
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JNRBRONC

Moderator
Ask your family and non hunting friends their views. My SO is against cell cams tracking deer movement for the exact reasons posed in the first post and she used to hunt.

What is the percentage of Iowan’s that hunt? Something like 7%? The fate of cell cams might be determined by the nonhunters outcry just like the law on piebalds/white deer.


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IowaBowHunter1983

Super Moderator
Staff member
Didn’t Babe Winkleman get busted in Minnesota for using a phone?

CB radios are allowed for coyotes but not deer, seems a double standard.

But in both cases, there was a person on both ends. I think the DNR might care to clarify this verbiage in code rather than leave it to the discretion of the officer.


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They should legalize apache helicopters for coyotes. ;)
 

Obsessed

Well-Known Member
We’d have to agree to disagree as my experience in the last few weeks has been different than yours. Think about guys that have multiple properties. Which one do I sit today?… and then at one hour before you want to be in a stand in the morning you get a pic of the big one at property number 2 in the general vicinity of tree stand number 4 out of the 8 different sets you have on that farm. Every one of us would go to stand 4 or maybe the stand he is headed for. i agree with you that by no means does this gaurentee you’re gonna kill him or even see him for that matter. But it definitely increases the odds significantly imo

Or let’s say a guy doesn’t have multiple farms, just one that’s 350 acres. Knowing when the big one is on the farm and exactly where is a tremendous advantage. Sooner or later you’re gonna catch up to him with that kind of real time info compared to not having any idea like 10 years ago.
This exact scenario is what I don't consider pure fair chase, via an electronic device, and why they should be illegal.
 

fatboy

Well-Known Member
I don't run cams at all and never have. I guess I am old school and have always liked the element of surprise when a nice buck comes in. I don't want to get wrapped up in chasing one buck for the season. I'm glad this topic was brought up as it has been on my mind for over a year. I have not had a problem with standard cams, but I have with cell cams. You can use the excuse of gas prices, or my farm is several hours away, it is not the same as having to go in pull a card leaving scent behind and maybe bumping deer on the way in.

I have a hard time believing that it is not being used to pattern deer movement and have seen several videos where they were used for that reason, especially when it is how you make a living putting big bucks down on camera. One was last year during the first week of the season and very hot. The deer was coming into the food plot at the same time every day and was killed. Now if you had to go in and pull cards every day or few, the chances in my opinion decrease, also if you set up on this field and glass then you are doing your homework to get a chance at this deer.
 

Obsessed

Well-Known Member
In my most extremely humble opinion, cell cams are clearly illegal already. From the IDNR...

You may not use dogs, domestic animals, bait, radios, handguns, rifles and crossbows (except as described on p. 38), automobiles, aircraft, drones, electronic calls or any mechanical conveyance or device to hunt deer.

Unless I'm reading this wrong (I do think it's poorly written) it says no radios. Cell phones are radios that use microwave. I also read this as saying no electronic devices. What am I missing???
WTR covered what I was going to ssy.
 

CurtisWalker

Moderator
As cell cams have their perks they also have their downfalls. I have watched deer after deer be spooked by cell cameras like to the point they completely avoid that area after they get one picture taken. They pick something up from them when they send out the picture. Now I changed my cams to send 1 time every 12 hours and that’s made a huge difference. But my point is cell cams aren’t as great as people are making them seem.

Now the whole idea of getting a picture and going to hunt the deer isn’t going to work out 90% of the time as by the time you drive to the farm and walk in to that area the deer is going to be gone or you’re going to bump it. I’ve had dandies on cam in broad daylight and I never even thought about going in to hunt just because they are there. Heck I live 30 min away from where I hunt and there’s still no chance I’d be able to make it there and get in to make a play on a deer in time.
Oh but it tells you the direction of travel? Does it though? That deer could get out of the frame of the camera and has 360 different degrees of direction it can choose. Heck it can turn 180 degrees and your camera not even be steady to take the next picture again and you’d never know.


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JPS

New Member
The DNR can legalize using Cellcam+crossbow+harry potter's-invisibility-cloack for the whole archery season and deer harvest will still be declining year after year.
Yet... I can sympathize with the OP's general idea: at some point stops being fair chase.
Personally, in the past I've used (card) cameras a lot, and I may still run one here and there, but it's less and less. There is something about scouting the old fashion way, reading sign, etc, that I just learned to love.
 

IowaBowHunter1983

Super Moderator
Staff member
The DNR can legalize using Cellcam+crossbow+harry potter's-invisibility-cloack for the whole archery season and deer harvest will still be declining year after year.
Yet... I can sympathize with the OP's general idea: at some point stops being fair chase.
Personally, in the past I've used (card) cameras a lot, and I may still run one here and there, but it's less and less. There is something about scouting the old fashion way, reading sign, etc, that I just learned to love.
“We’ve harvested between 100,000-110,000 (deer) every year since 2013, and I suspect we’ll be close to 100,000 again this year,” said Tyler Harms, a DNR wildlife research biometrician.
 
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Daver

PMA Member
….should be illegal. At least during season. I realize it’s probably an unpopular opinion as I love getting the pics as much as the next guy I really do. ...

FWIW, I also feel the same way ^^. Although we use conventional trail cams quite a bit, I have not taken the step of installing cell cams...mainly because I feel like they tip the scales too far in favor of the hunter. Keep in mind that my deer hunting career goes back to a time where we thought we were clever when we tied a piece of monofilament across a trail and then inspected that trail later to see if a deer, or who knows what, had traveled down that trail and broken the line. Talk about "intel", LOL. but I guess I still have some "old school" in me.

I had a neighbor sending me pics from his cell cam last year and honestly, I felt like that was a "bridge too far" for me in terms of fresh intel. I knew if a given buck was on his place at "X" time that the odds of me seeing it on my farm were lower, or higher, etc. Once I felt like that level of understanding could/would influence my choice of hunting location, I noped out on cell cams and have remained in that camp ever since.

We know the deer on our farm very well, we already deliberately hunt certain stands on certain days of the year based on our knowledge of how they are likely to travel a given route and when. Capping that off with fresh electronic surveillance data would be like eating a cake with so much sugar in it that it makes your eyes pucker up...to me.

I like knowing what is "out there" so we can make informed decisions on which bucks to shoot and so forth, but I also still like the element of surprise to be present at some level.
 
I may be of unpopular opinion here with this, but I will say I also say Food Plots teeter on the edge of fair chase/unfair chase. I know I will get some slack for this, but that's ok - just my opinion and maybe just another viewpoint for others to consider. The way I look at food plots are that they are not a source of "natural" food, therefore altering a deer's (or other wildlife for that matter) path to said food plot is pretty much the definition of "baiting" - Again - my opinion. I can see the argument for both sides though as well cause you could say hunting over a freshly cut bean/corn field is the same thing. To me - it is definitely in the gray area. I also do not own my own land or have much access to private land to be able to maintain a food plot. If I did, however, my opinion would most likely change. I also know how much work people put into the plots, getting the right mixtures, the man hours, etc. so its not like I am saying it doesn't require a ton of effort. I don't know - maybe rambling here - but just my 2 cents. Guess with the original post though, all of these new technologies that are available now, certainly have changed the game. Kind of funny to think back to the days of no cell phones, no trail cams and just having to figure it with only mother nature on your side. Again - not dogging anyone but just throwing out thoughts. Cheers and Happy Hunting!
 

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