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The dirty side of whitetail hunting........

loneranger

Well-Known Member
This,"Aging on the hoof", isn't all so easy. I have a 4 yr old, aged by DNR, that would be 170 had he not broken his brows. I also have an aged DNR 5 yr old 149 or 50. Both had similar body types. Four yr old I shot this year, also DNR jaw aged is 138. Had a huge body though. Complicated figuring in the few exciting moments in the field!
 

Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
Aging on the hoof is hard. Heck, I made a goof up this year on the buck I posted, was 6 when I thought he was 5.
When it comes to outfitting, the outfitter would need to be the one to follow the deer through out the years to know a deer is XYZ years old.... So, he could take the time to have that knowledge. Then, here's where the trouble arises - he has to having paying customers that care whether the deer is 3 or 6 or whatever and then decide not to shoot him if he wasn't mature. That isn't going to happen. Yet another problem with the recipe of outfitting.
 

bradley

triplebeam
I guess I was just going by what I see where I hunt.Every vehicle I seen year after year were from out of state.If there are 10 hunters there a year & all of them shoot immature deer that is still alot of bucks takin off of a place.But I agree,outfitting in general is not good for deer herd & management regardless of where the hunters come from.Like Sligh1 says when somone pays for something they are gonna shoot something just because they invested a fair amount of money in the hunt.
 

letemgrow

PMA Member
I'll take this a step further and state this as respectfully and MATURE as I can without coming off like I'm having a tantrum.... I'd absolutely sell my "FAVORITE FARM" if an outfitter took up shop next to me. GONE. My farm would be destroyed.

I don't know about some of the opinions going on the other day but I do have one farm of mine (not for sale) that has some kind of outfitting done on one of the neighboring farms and I don't quite know the details yet. Who ever is doing it, they have a right to do it but I'd absolutely sell a farm if I'm up against an outfitter. It ruins farms, absolutely destroys them and completely counter-productive to what I'm trying to do. Their right to outfit, my right to sell. I'm a GIVER when it comes to management, passing deer, growing mature bucks, not killing young deer. Outfitters are generally, on average - TAKERS. As simple as I can make it.

That is it in a nutshell. Its happened in my area as well. The best genetic young deer get shot because the paying hunting don't care if that 130" is only 2 and the 150" is only 3. The top end genetic bucks are taken too early.

The only way an outfitter can really do it right is they own the ground free and clear, that way they can run as few as they want on it for a premium price.

The outfitters I've been around are generally good people, some seem like used car salesman tho and blow smoke up the landowners you know what to end up with the ground. My hunting has went down hill big time in my area, but deer #'s are still very high....so EHD, taking too many does, none of that makes any sense as to why there are very few mature deer and the mature ones we do have go 120". The giant mature bucks were loaded up as 2-3 year old 10's, 12's, non-typicals....just my opinion of course :D

I'll go a step farther and say the increase in "trophy" hunting also is detrimental. Those type hunters will not shoot a 120" mature buck, yet will shoot a 150" that still has milk on his mouth. There has been a big increase in that type hunter as well. Put enough guns in an area with outfitters and trophy hunters that are not after mature deer and you have a recipe for disaster from a mature buck/200" stand point....
 

mplane72

PMA Member
The "penalties" for shooting a sub-whatever buck that a outfitter may attempt to enforce are a joke. I have heard of situations similar to what Sligh1 mentioned. Better then that though. When I used to travel the North East there were plants that would go nutty when they heard their was a tech on the plant floor from Iowa. Sometimes I could hardly get any work done because everyone wanted to know if I knew Lee and Tiffany. Anyway, I heard from many that when they went on their mid-western hunt they figured their outfitters penalties into their budget.
 

jkratz5

Super Moderator
Skip,

We had outfitters lease up a bunch and I mean a bunch of ground around us in IL. First couple of years, they hammered big deer, saw several 4.5+ deer taken every year and I thought they were doing it right. Then the switch got flipped. The guys did exactly as you say, 120 and it was getting hammered. The last year they were in business I saw them harevst two whitetails, both in the 120" range and they were running 27 guys a week thru camp. They absolutely destroyed the land they were hunting. Was good to us as they pushed a pile of deer out our way after about the first week and we would get loaded with deer.

They have since left and it has taken about 5 years for the population around those farms to restore itself. Wasn't pretty thou.

Oh and this outfitters guides consistently shot 150+ every year. They ended up goin to jail for it too but that is another story all together. I hope IA doesn't succumb to increased tags and an influx of outfitters but I fear you are headed that way. IL is still a great place to hunt, but man it was really fantastic in the early 2000s.

Kratz
 

Altiman94

Member
The farms in IA are just not large enough to sustain the # of hunters that outfitters need to run thru them to make money. It all goes back to the commercialization of hunting ruining our sport.
 
Would anyone have a clue or a guess as to the avg. size outfitter in Ia in terms of acres?

Not sure on the exact average, but a quick google search showed one at 8000 acres, one at 5000 acres (plus guaranteed hunt on 900 separate personal acres), and one at 6000 acres (also outfitting in other states). Two with 140" minimum and one with 125" minimum. Typical penalties of $500-1000.
 

Baby-G

Super Moderator
Skip,

We had outfitters lease up a bunch and I mean a bunch of ground around us in IL. First couple of years, they hammered big deer, saw several 4.5+ deer taken every year and I thought they were doing it right. Then the switch got flipped. The guys did exactly as you say, 120 and it was getting hammered. The last year they were in business I saw them harevst two whitetails, both in the 120" range and they were running 27 guys a week thru camp. They absolutely destroyed the land they were hunting. Was good to us as they pushed a pile of deer out our way after about the first week and we would get loaded with deer.

They have since left and it has taken about 5 years for the population around those farms to restore itself. Wasn't pretty thou.

Oh and this outfitters guides consistently shot 150+ every year. They ended up goin to jail for it too but that is another story all together. I hope IA doesn't succumb to increased tags and an influx of outfitters but I fear you are headed that way. IL is still a great place to hunt, but man it was really fantastic in the early 2000s.

Kratz

Kratz,

Your right the early 2000's was amazing in Illinois. The county I hunted is still ruined and outfitting is in the milking stages. Run as many through as possible before they find out..... stinks......
 

Sligh1

Administrator
Staff member
Outfitters here will lease any size they can get for a good price. Any. My neigbors farm is 160 acres. I'm guessin who ever outfitted it put no less than 10 guys thru. I killed zero bucks on my farm & I hate to know how many were shot there. They have maybe 40 acres of timber on this 160 they leased to outfit.
So- u will see 3000 or 4000 advertised but its made up of tons of small pieces. Biggest farm in Iowa is less than 4000 acres and anything over 300 acres is getting pretty rare now days.
 

SaskGuy

Active Member
Whoa......
My friend is an outfitter. His area is roughly 500 000 acres. Tonight I will ask him how many clients a year he runs through there, I think it is less than 30.
 

IowaChiro

Member
I feel a lot of limitations and NR bashing comes as a result of outfitting. As a landowner we are lumped into this because of the old ... Increase tags and everything will be leased to outfitters.

Therefore I'm just not a fan of outfitting

You are correct. Outfitting displaces more local hunters due to leasing, than out of staters buying ground.
 

capttrae

New Member
I tell y'all what y'all make a NR feel right at home don't y'all. When I finally got to come up there to hunt a couple seasons ago I was tickled pink bc I've been hearing about Iowa for as long as I can remember, and now I'm fortunate enough to have a job where I make enough money to be able to hunt places like that. And while there are some guys that come up there w/ the attitude that I've paid all this money I'm going to bring a buck back no matter what and shoot a 115-120" deer, but there's also a lot of us like me that just really appreciate the fact that we are getting to hunt Iowa and understand that killing a deer is just icing on the cake, and that already have the mindset that if we kill one it's going to be something that say proudly that came from Iowa.
 

IowaChiro

Member
I tell y'all what y'all make a NR feel right at home don't y'all. When I finally got to come up there to hunt a couple seasons ago I was tickled pink bc I've been hearing about Iowa for as long as I can remember, and now I'm fortunate enough to have a job where I make enough money to be able to hunt places like that. And while there are some guys that come up there w/ the attitude that I've paid all this money I'm going to bring a buck back no matter what and shoot a 115-120" deer, but there's also a lot of us like me that just really appreciate the fact that we are getting to hunt Iowa and understand that killing a deer is just icing on the cake, and that already have the mindset that if we kill one it's going to be something that say proudly that came from Iowa.

I'm not against you coming to Iowa, I'm against outfitters leasing up land, sometimes for supper cheap prices, displacing locals who can't afford to lease or pay the thousands they outfitters charge. Eff those guys. They will turn whitetail hunting into a rich man's sport.
 

kodiak416

New Member
I'm not against you coming to Iowa, I'm against outfitters leasing up land, sometimes for supper cheap prices, displacing locals who can't afford to lease or pay the thousands they outfitters charge. Eff those guys. They will turn whitetail hunting into a rich man's sport.

Not in any way trying to start an argument, i am curious? How do Outfitters go about leasing land for super cheap prices? What kind of pricing per acre have you heard of Outfitters getting? Is ther an angle that they use that me as a average hunter looking to lease cant use? Just looking for info so i know what im getting into as i look to lease some new Ground for 2014.
 

AIRASSAULT

PMA Member
Not in any way trying to start an argument, i am curious? How do Outfitters go about leasing land for super cheap prices? What kind of pricing per acre have you heard of Outfitters getting? Is ther an angle that they use that me as a average hunter looking to lease cant use? Just looking for info so i know what im getting into as i look to lease some new Ground for 2014.

Don't use sites such as base camp leasing.. they are a rip off from the prices I've seen. I've never leased before, however I personally know a family that is leasing out their 200+ acres of prime hunting ground out for $7/acre right now.. they don't accept higher offers from anyone, just simply say 'get in line'.
 

SplitG2

New Member
Just because someone is a NR doesn't mean you have to go to an outfitter, buy ground, or lease ground. I met a NR in a public land parking lot this year who was camping out for a couple weeks and hunting the public. Really nice guy, we helped each other out on where to hunt, what we've been seeing, etc. Just from scouting the area and hunting he had a sighting of a 160+ and missed a 145. All while hunting with a recurve from the ground believe it or not. I don't know if he ever got one, I tagged out and never saw him again. Wish I would have gotten his number or remembered his name. So to all you NR's out there, us resident hunters can be welcoming, encouraging, and even helpful. Even on public ground.
 

IowaChiro

Member
Don't use sites such as base camp leasing.. they are a rip off from the prices I've seen. I've never leased before, however I personally know a family that is leasing out their 200+ acres of prime hunting ground out for $7/acre right now.. they don't accept higher offers from anyone, just simply say 'get in line'.

Pleased don't give help to people wanting to lease, we need fewer people leasing, not more.
 

kodiak416

New Member
Pleased don't give help to people wanting to lease, we need fewer people leasing, not more.

for sake of conversation why not lease? You said it yourself outfitters getting leases for super cheap. I was hooked at " Suoer Cheap" and needed to know more... i am far from a rich man and only been able to Primarily hunt Public land. but if its super cheap why not? Im confused now? Do Outfitters really get it for super cheap or were you ranting / venting? If you were just venting your dislike for Outfitters without facts i apoligize i asked.

Good Luck Hunting and God Bless....
 

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