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Thoughts on arming teachers?

Wapsi Tree Rat

Well-Known Member
Well, if you're asking me what should be in an AP Calculus curriculum, I think I'm qualified to provide input. If it is the social studies curriculum, I am not. What happens in a typical classroom is very much controlled by the individual teacher. Yes, there are liberal teachers out there...and conservative too. In Iowa it somewhat varies urban versus rural. I'm sure there are things on CNN that would be totally appropriate for certain classrooms, and other things that would obviously not be. The same would be true about FOX. The point I was making is that conservative outlets so often paint with the broad brush that says public schools are training little liberal brain-washed robots who aren't capable of independent rational thought. I've been in enough schools and know enough faculty members to tell you that this just isn't the case on a wide scale. My 2 cents...about time for the next class to show up!

NWBuck
Wow. Advanced calculus. Nice! Pretty sure I failed algebra and I still have trouble counting how many tree stands I hung.:) You have chosen the only school subject that cannot be politicized. I can only speak for my little community, but ours is rural and extremely liberal. I am very in tune with what is being taught and do a lot of re teaching my youngsters when they get home from school at night, mostly social studies and yes, science. I don't tell them how to think. I make sure they have all views so they make their own informed opinions. This is how our local teachers fail, by teaching opinion as fact.
 

NWBuck

PMA Member
Sorry Wapsi...I did not mean to hijack your original thread, which I truly believe is a great topic of discussion. Muddy mentioned how his kids froze up during an active shooter training. We had a similar training at our school, and I watched veteran teachers do the same thing in a simulation that they knew was coming. I admire your district for trying to take this training to a new level, and I think that would definitely help identify weaknesses in the response team. As my teaching career is much closer to the end than the beginning, I pray that I will never be faced with such a scenario, but if I am, my hope is that God will empower me to do all I can to help protect my students and colleagues. Thanks for the great discussion guys...
 

Wapsi Tree Rat

Well-Known Member
Sorry Wapsi...I did not mean to hijack your original thread, which I truly believe is a great topic of discussion. Muddy mentioned how his kids froze up during an active shooter training. We had a similar training at our school, and I watched veteran teachers do the same thing in a simulation that they knew was coming. I admire your district for trying to take this training to a new level, and I think that would definitely help identify weaknesses in the response team. As my teaching career is much closer to the end than the beginning, I pray that I will never be faced with such a scenario, but if I am, my hope is that God will empower me to do all I can to help protect my students and colleagues. Thanks for the great discussion guys...
Never saw it as a hijacking as this subject includes so many other topics from social issues, parenting, discipline, schools to guns to security and on and on. It's ALL part of this discussion. Thanks for your comments.
 

Oct-Lull

Well-Known Member
Couple things here, I think security first and formost is the most basic and sensible action here. Wouldn't possibly solve a current student issue though. Second I am not against a teacher carry secondary option, but one with pretty rigorous and stringent guide lines. Even so far as a 6 week academy or basic similar to or the same as new LE. Then keep it quiet, if the rumor is there and the unknown it will cause many of these cowards from trying it. If they walk in and don't know who may be trained and armed they may just not do it. As far as the liberal bias in schools, I firmly believe it's there. You push hard conservative views especially containing religion you won't stay employed. Go to the far left not so much. It's real
 
I don't have a strong opinion either way in regards to teachers carrying.

But am I the only one that has a problem running a drill that nobody knows about? Say an actual shooter walks into that school next Monday morning, starts shooting, and they make the active shooter announcement over the intercom. How many of those kids are going to: *eye roll* "Oh great, another drill haha. Hey Tommy, how 'bout you try not cry this time lolol." and not take the actual active shooter situation seriously? I'm serious... does this not make any of you guys uncomfortable? This is literally the start of the story 'The Boy Who Cried Wolf '.

Look, having a drill twice a school year or so for this situation is fine by me. But I would MUCH rather they give a heads up for these drills and have it be explained to them that drills will ALWAYS be announced before hand so EVERYONE knows it is a drill. Period. If you haven't heard anything about a drill it's code red and you need to do whatever you can to get out and run as far and as fast as you can or barricade yourself in the most secure place as possible. Explain to the kids that they are to take these drills seriously. No horsing around like they do during tornado drills or fire drills. Really pay attention and take it seriously. Do the drill, make sure everyone knows what needs to be done and go on with the day.

I'm sorry, but that administration ought to be slapped in my opinion. Just seems idiotic to me that you would run a drill of that significance without telling anyone.

My .02
 

bwese

Active Member
A. I was in the teacher's lounge the other day and it was filled with women. They were discussing the idea of teachers carrying. They were all against it and said they wouldn't. I stated I wouldn't want any teacher who didn't want to carry, carry but those that wanted to and passed all the checks and such, completed training in grand fashion should be allowed concealed carry. They though cameras were also part of the answer and they should be installed asap in this school. I said cameras are only good if they are being monitored full time, on real time, and if they are always working. I have yet to work in a school where they have issues with their camera system. We quit talking after that as they had to leave as lunch time was over for them. (because of class schedule not because of being rude) The school secretary and I carried on the conversation and she was not for teachers carrying. She thought it would be too dangerous but supports CC in general. Her husband is a conceal/carry person.

B. The drill that was carried out without explaining it was a drill was a great idea. I understand there would be some issues with it but I believe the positive outweighed the negative. However I know that had I been in that school and in a locked room I would have broken a table leg off or found something else useful for swinging hard as well as finding things kids could use as well.

C. I work at schools in Omaha, NE and those schools are overflowing with liberal filled agendas pushed by the individual teachers. Not all teachers are liberal in these schools but they are in a small minority and don't have a lot of sway in school direction.
 

NWBuck

PMA Member
C. I work at schools in Omaha, NE and those schools are overflowing with liberal filled agendas pushed by the individual teachers. Not all teachers are liberal in these schools but they are in a small minority and don't have a lot of sway in school direction.

I don't disagree that there are plenty of classroom teachers who would fall into the "liberal" category. That's probably more true in Omaha than in rural northwest Iowa, but they are here as well. What I don't believe is that there are a whole bunch of them out there pushing a political agenda in the classroom. I have plenty of colleagues both in my district and others that would lean much more to the left than to the right. But they have the professional ethics to understand that their job is to teach content, not push their political views on students. Whether conservative or liberal, if a teacher is doing this consistently in the classroom, they need to be reprimanded. I know they would be here...
 

Oct-Lull

Well-Known Member
T
I don't disagree that there are plenty of classroom teachers who would fall into the "liberal" category. That's probably more true in Omaha than in rural northwest Iowa, but they are here as well. What I don't believe is that there are a whole bunch of them out there pushing a political agenda in the classroom. I have plenty of colleagues both in my district and others that would lean much more to the left than to the right. But they have the professional ethics to understand that their job is to teach content, not push their political views on students. Whether conservative or liberal, if a teacher is doing this consistently in the classroom, they need to be reprimanded. I know they would be here...
This view confuses me? Maybe our schools here are different? I do live in a pretty liberal area. But to me schools are very liberal as a whole and support liberal ideal far more than Conservative. From trans gender bathrooms, people against prayer, using God in the pledge, being afraid to reprimand kids, they teach evolution as gospel, even when I was in school it was liberal media. My wife worked at a cc last year and a teacher let go for referring to a student in the wrong gender?????
 

Wapsi Tree Rat

Well-Known Member
....being afraid to reprimand kids...
Bingo! My wife (teacher)was hauled into the principals office for a stern reprimand. Why? She had lunchroom duty and some kid was tossing some Macheal Obama Lunch menu around trying to start a food fight.(kids don't eat that crap) She went over to his table and told him to knock it off or else.... She apparently did 3 things wrong there.
1. She got in his face in a threatening manner. Nope. Need to use a kind and encouraging tone.
2. She bent over to talk to him. Nope. Need kneel down and talk on his level.
3. She called out bad behavior in front of that kid's peers. Nope. Need to pull them aside and talk with them privately.

Seriously? That's how we are preparing our kids to go live/work in the real world?
No! Teach them now that if you do stupid, bad will happen.
 
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Wapsi Tree Rat

Well-Known Member
I don't have a strong opinion either way in regards to teachers carrying.

But am I the only one that has a problem running a drill that nobody knows about? Say an actual shooter walks into that school next Monday morning, starts shooting, and they make the active shooter announcement over the intercom. How many of those kids are going to: *eye roll* "Oh great, another drill haha. Hey Tommy, how 'bout you try not cry this time lolol." and not take the actual active shooter situation seriously? I'm serious... does this not make any of you guys uncomfortable? This is literally the start of the story 'The Boy Who Cried Wolf '.

Look, having a drill twice a school year or so for this situation is fine by me. But I would MUCH rather they give a heads up for these drills and have it be explained to them that drills will ALWAYS be announced before hand so EVERYONE knows it is a drill. Period. If you haven't heard anything about a drill it's code red and you need to do whatever you can to get out and run as far and as fast as you can or barricade yourself in the most secure place as possible. Explain to the kids that they are to take these drills seriously. No horsing around like they do during tornado drills or fire drills. Really pay attention and take it seriously. Do the drill, make sure everyone knows what needs to be done and go on with the day.

I'm sorry, but that administration ought to be slapped in my opinion. Just seems idiotic to me that you would run a drill of that significance without telling anyone.

My .02
I think you do raise some great points here. Not sure I agree yet, so let me throw this out. Previous drills had proven a 15 min screw off time. My kid says pushing and shoving through the door, making a mockery of the drill, you know, what 6,7,8 grade boys do. Lot of jacking around. One kid landed flat in a mud puddle. It was just a joke to the kids....and the teachers just trying to babysit the whole thing. Thinking now maybe they start taking it seriously.
 
Bingo! My wife (teacher)was hauled into the principals office for a stern reprimand. Why? She had lunchroom duty and some kid was tossing some Macheal Obama Lunch menu around trying to start a food fight.(kids don't eat that crap) She went over to his table and told him to knock it off or else.... She apparently did 3 things wrong there.
1. She got in his face in a threatening manner. Nope. Need to use a kind and encouraging tone.
2. She bent over to talk to him. Nope. Need kneel down and talk on his level.
3. She called out bad behavior in front of that kid's peers. Nope. Need to pull them aside and talk with them privately.

Seriously? That's how we are preparing our kids to go live/work in the real world?
No! Teach them now that if you do stupid, bad will happen.
I agree. Your boss isn't going to kneel down and speak to you in an encouraging tone. Best they learn how the real world works now.
I think you do raise some great points here. Not sure I agree yet, so let me throw this out. Previous drills had proven a 15 min screw off time. My kid says pushing and shoving through the door, making a mockery of the drill, you know, what 6,7,8 grade boys do. Lot of jacking around. One kid landed flat in a mud puddle. It was just a joke to the kids....and the teachers just trying to babysit the whole thing. Thinking now maybe they start taking it seriously.
And I totally understand that point of view too. We were all once teenage boys and know very well how they behave lol. It's a tough thing to handle. I just cringe at the idea of what I described above. Having a real emergency and people not taking it seriously because they thought it was just another drill and then getting hurt or killed because they walked to the exit instead of running. I'm sticking to my opinion on this one, Wapsi. I feel a drill of that significance shouldn't be disguised. I understand where you are coming from though.
 

4DABUCKS

Well-Known Member
1. She got in his face in a threatening manner. Nope. Need to use a kind and encouraging tone.
2. She bent over to talk to him. Nope. Need kneel down and talk on his level.
3. She called out bad behavior in front of that kid's peers. Nope. Need to pull them aside and talk with them privately.

Seriously? That's how we are preparing our kids to go live/work in the real world?
No! Teach them now that if you do stupid, bad will happen.

This is one thing that is very frustrating for me, I see it from my 3 boys as well as some of the younger guys at work. When you have to think twice about how your going to discipline your own kids because you don't know who's watching let alone could maybe hear you. I'm very proud of what my boys are slowly turning into, but I'm damn sure that along the way if it wasn't for some tough love/lessons on how the real world works, I would be very worried.
My oldest is now 17, I've been @ some of his friends, to say I'm a Lil worried about the next generation would be a huge understatement. Listening to some of their conversations scares the shit outta me. Some of these kids don't have a clue on how the world works.
Maybe I'm not sensitive enough but it sure feels like we'e raising a bunch of brats that feel like they are entitled to what they want and when and how they want it.

Sorry guys, Lil off subject......musta struck a nerve!!!
 

Obsessed

Well-Known Member
I'm all for teachers carrying firearms, and I'll take it a step further. I don't believe they should have to take any more training than anyone else who has their carry permit. It should be one in the same.

As for the extra bullets flying around from returning fire comments... Life constantly gives us horrible and even worse decisions to chose from. Returning fire in a crowded area is a horrible choice, but it's much better than the even worse choice of not returning fire and allowing terrorists to continue mowing down innocent people, unopposed.
 

Al Stockwell

New Member
Lots of good replies. Here are some of my pet peeves that I see/hear from ininformed people:
-I don't want teachers walking around with a gun (open carry) - That isn't being proposed from logical folks
-I don't want old Mrs. Johnson responsible for handling a gun - nobody is suggesting that ALL teachers assist in this process, just a few well trained folks
-An armed teacher will be hard to decipher from the gunman - Not if we make their guns orange and have them slip a piece of identifying clothing on that only the school and LEOs know about

I asked a buddy the other night who is opposed (non-hunter/gun owner) to arming teachers. I asked him if one of his boys was in school when an activ shooter appeared, would you rather have nobody there to take action in the 4-5 minutes before the cops show, or would it make you feel better to know that there is someone there to at the minimum slow the shooter down and provide some resistance? How about being locked in a room with a teacher that is armed and the only way into the room is the door where the gun is pointed?
 

Zipper

New Member
Hired retired police officers who have a life time of experience as school safety officers. They must qualify with their weapon twice a year. Teachers and administrators who are properly trained and wish to carry concealed can do so in coordination with the school safety officer.
 

isu22andy

Active Member
All I know is if my kid was locked in a classroom with a shooter standing at the door, I would want the instructor to at least attempt to unlock the biometric safe in his/her desk to retrieve a firearm and defend the classroom rather than just getting mowed down defenseless.
 

203ntyp

PMA Member
My daughter is a teacher in Orlando and worries all the time. She's not a fan of guns and frowns a little when I get the firearms out when they visit to plink at targets with the grandsons. I'd rather they learn gun safety than be shunned from it.

I think armed employees are (unfortunately) needed but not all teachers are cut out to pull the trigger in a stressful situation, the liberal women wouldn't have the gonads to shoot someone. :oops:
 

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