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Great podcast to listen to! Steve Hansen on the Land Podcast

I might be all wrong on this but...these super celebrities with huge properties are so well insulated, they could care less what the deer population is outside their property line in the cheap seats. They probably do still need to take does. Almost like living in a gated community with the hood two blocks away.
 
I started bowhunting in 85 and a 125-130 buck at that time was like a 180-290 inch typical now! When I’m unable to hunt in the near future we could go full circle with a 130 buck… don’t laugh yet
I remember my first P&Y like it was yesterday...he's still on the wall! lol. Hopefully the new hunters outgrow it like we did:) I have a buddy of mine that never outgrew it. He talks about his bad neighbors and I tell him, you are the bad neighboro_O
 
“Celebs” can be for good or bad. & let’s have some grace with ANYONE (not talking about celebs) - no one has a perfect record in life or hunting.
What they do from here is what’s important. With that audience comes responsibility to do good & right with it. I absolutely have an issue with “sell out celebs” who only care about themselves, $ &/or ego…. GOOD BYE!!!!! At the same time, I appreciate those that will speak about issues that are a threat to the sport, resource & younger generation. There are those that get “the world isn’t just about ME ME ME” and some that don’t get it. I know almost every single one of em. I talk to MOST of em fairly regularly. (Land, habitat, regulations, THIS TOPIC, etc, etc). The ones who care about only them or a sponsor that pays them to sell their values or remaining luke warm: GOOD BYE!! Best wishes but not folks I want to spend my limited time talking to. Folks that do right - let’s chat. & make no mistake - I’ve discussed “doing the right thing, protecting the future, doing what’s best for resource” with the vast majority. Those that maybe haven’t thought about it or knew how to impact it. We’ve made huge progress. Lemme say this here…. I will leave out the names of folks I personally don’t have the values or intent that’s RIGHT. The folks who have put actions into words, (perfect or not!!!!!) & who have done things &/or spoke up or put resources into helping “the greater good”…. Lakoskys, Lindsay’s, Bowmars, Huntworx, Midwest Whitetail, GSM outdoors, Jay Gregory, most of podcast industry (exodus, huntr, nine fingers, etc etc etc) & countless others I am not remembering. The other key… there’s far MORE actually doing things every year VS less. Our movement is growing at exponential rate. So- some that didn’t do the right thing- guess what- if they change their path & decide to help- welcome. There’s never a time in life or a journey where folks can’t be changed or do good. Grace is something God gives & so should we. We are winning this & what that really means is: the future is winning this. We are leaving things better than we found it or making it far better than if we did nothing. Props to all those doing the right thing. & last- I assure u- the non-celeb everyday guy in our #’s is infinitely more effective than any celebrity movement. We sure need both. But it’s YOU more than anything that’s changing our direction!!’
 
Well said Skip. As always love the passion and commitment. Would just say a couple things as it relates to your post as well as the huntr podcast w Jeff Lindsey that was brought up. On your post, I would say that bc me and the folks on this board know you relatively well that as a result I’m inclined to believe you….however, with deer numbers being HALF of what they were, quality way down and seemingly getting worse, crossguns (in most of the Midwest not necessarily IA), longer seasons, access at an all time low- it sure doesn’t feel like we are winning unfortunately. Frankly it feels like the farm bureau, insurance lobby, and diseases are kicking our ass haha.
Maybe what you are saying and what I hope is the case is that guys like you in IA are starting to go on the offensive and starting to gain some traction and that you are determined to win and the results from this early stage of winning won’t be seen as far as actual improvements of the things I mentioned for 3-5 years from now?

On the Lindsey podcast.….have seen their show a few times, he talked about his faith, seem like great dudes. Nothing but respect for them and this isn’t meant as disrespectful but when Jared and Jeremy were talking about deer #’s being way too high in OH (which I can’t imagine but that’s a different rabbit trail) Jeff kinda just went along with it and said something to the effect of that yea #’s are up but the quality high end bucks are down. I wanted to dial in to their podcast and scream hahaha. He clearly doesn’t realize or know that the herd in IA (even if he’s in a rare pocket where this isn’t the case) is HALF!! What a perfect opportunity for him to address that and just make a casual non threatening comment about how the doe harvest needs to be reduced. This is what I’m talking about when I say “celebrity” guys need to get that message out and in a lot of cases need to be made aware of it in the first place. I’m continually amazed at how few hunters know how far down the herd is and that it’s rarely brought up while they’re discussing why the top end is so bad Compared to the hey day.
 
There’s no doubt in my mind that 1990s to 2006 roughly were just better for big bucks . I can’t compare Iowa as I was not hunting there at that time.

My home state of Minnesota had so many more mature bucks, it’s hard to comprehend how much we have slipped. It’s a dramatic difference!

During the Halloween Blizzard of 1991 I was in the stand and saw huge bucks chasing does full speed for 3 straight hours as 8 inches of snow fell (we ended up with 24 inches of snow)…. I barely got out of the woods that night there was so much snow. It was absolutely insane. I hunt that same area today, and we’re are luckily to even SEE a 130-140 inch buck.

You add in poor timing of the season, longer seasons , special doe seasons, early youth season, late muzzy seasons, better weapons, comfy blinds, bigger and better food plots, trail cameras, social media, and now EHD! It all adds up to a real challenge to get a buck to real maturity in most states.

Luckily Iowa still has pockets of good hunting, some great hunting, but we have a challenge on our hands.
 
Hunters
Well said Skip. As always love the passion and commitment. Would just say a couple things as it relates to your post as well as the huntr podcast w Jeff Lindsey that was brought up. On your post, I would say that bc me and the folks on this board know you relatively well that as a result I’m inclined to believe you….however, with deer numbers being HALF of what they were, quality way down and seemingly getting worse, crossguns (in most of the Midwest not necessarily IA), longer seasons, access at an all time low- it sure doesn’t feel like we are winning unfortunately. Frankly it feels like the farm bureau, insurance lobby, and diseases are kicking our ass haha.
Maybe what you are saying and what I hope is the case is that guys like you in IA are starting to go on the offensive and starting to gain some traction and that you are determined to win and the results from this early stage of winning won’t be seen as far as actual improvements of the things I mentioned for 3-5 years from now?

On the Lindsey podcast.….have seen their show a few times, he talked about his faith, seem like great dudes. Nothing but respect for them and this isn’t meant as disrespectful but when Jared and Jeremy were talking about deer #’s being way too high in OH (which I can’t imagine but that’s a different rabbit trail) Jeff kinda just went along with it and said something to the effect of that yea #’s are up but the quality high end bucks are down. I wanted to dial in to their podcast and scream hahaha. He clearly doesn’t realize or know that the herd in IA (even if he’s in a rare pocket where this isn’t the case) is HALF!! What a perfect opportunity for him to address that and just make a casual non threatening comment about how the doe harvest needs to be reduced. This is what I’m talking about when I say “celebrity” guys need to get that message out and in a lot of cases need to be made aware of it in the first place. I’m continually amazed at how few hunters know how far down the herd is and that it’s rarely brought up while they’re discussing why the top end is so bad Compared to the hey da
Hunters & the resource has been beaten down & exploited for 15 to 40++ years depending on the state. It’s only gone ONE WAY- the wrong way. IBA has been the only wall iowa had. If u think it’s bad now- imagine what “no IBA” would look like!!!! We’d be RUINED …. Not “half”…. RUINED.
The celebs often are like the everyday guy. They are the everyday guy in Many regards- they just happen to “have a show”. Being that involved - should mean they understand it better than the average guy- but sure doesn’t mean they are experts. They are experts in making a show & shooting some good deer. That’s generally the end of it. They are waking up. More of them everyday. Think of the everyday guy- for 15-40+ years few thought of these things. Vast majority. We have to educate the everyday hunters just like the celebs. And we are!!!!

It’s taken 15-40+ years for things to get “bad” …. & some places, bad means: RUINED. Some places it means- “harvest is half”. Any movement & changes- it’s not gonna happen in 1 month, 1 year or even 3 years. It’s probably 5 years for example.
Think about how fast Biden ruined things. I can’t see Trump cleaning it up in even 4 years. Big problems take time. But- it’s on course… the ball is moving & it’s snowballing BIG TIME!!!!! We will fix this far faster than it was ruined. It’s always going to be 2 steps forward & 1 back. We gonna win many and lose a few. The goals at this moment are very achievable…. Get a reasonable population back up. Maybe not to 2005 levels but a statewide increase. Stop the crossbow lunatics. Get some ehd relief in many regards (long story). Gain members & those involved in outdoor issues.
Educate hunters & politicians. Fight back & stop the maniac special interests that want to exploit us. Get more politicians & other groups on our side. On & on. We have a plan - I can see the outcome & like any war or struggle- there’s battles, ups & downs but resilient & ambitious people, 16m hunters - can change things for the better. Not all roses & butterflies. Some pain ahead. But overall-the game has changed & there’s no stopping the positive things being fought for.
 
Hunters

Hunters & the resource has been beaten down & exploited for 15 to 40++ years depending on the state. It’s only gone ONE WAY- the wrong way. IBA has been the only wall iowa had. If u think it’s bad now- imagine what “no IBA” would look like!!!! We’d be RUINED …. Not “half”…. RUINED.
The celebs often are like the everyday guy. They are the everyday guy in Many regards- they just happen to “have a show”. Being that involved - should mean they understand it better than the average guy- but sure doesn’t mean they are experts. They are experts in making a show & shooting some good deer. That’s generally the end of it. They are waking up. More of them everyday. Think of the everyday guy- for 15-40+ years few thought of these things. Vast majority. We have to educate the everyday hunters just like the celebs. And we are!!!!

It’s taken 15-40+ years for things to get “bad” …. & some places, bad means: RUINED. Some places it means- “harvest is half”. Any movement & changes- it’s not gonna happen in 1 month, 1 year or even 3 years. It’s probably 5 years for example.
Think about how fast Biden ruined things. I can’t see Trump cleaning it up in even 4 years. Big problems take time. But- it’s on course… the ball is moving & it’s snowballing BIG TIME!!!!! We will fix this far faster than it was ruined. It’s always going to be 2 steps forward & 1 back. We gonna win many and lose a few. The goals at this moment are very achievable…. Get a reasonable population back up. Maybe not to 2005 levels but a statewide increase. Stop the crossbow lunatics. Get some ehd relief in many regards (long story). Gain members & those involved in outdoor issues.
Educate hunters & politicians. Fight back & stop the maniac special interests that want to exploit us. Get more politicians & other groups on our side. On & on. We have a plan - I can see the outcome & like any war or struggle- there’s battles, ups & downs but resilient & ambitious people, 16m hunters - can change things for the better. Not all roses & butterflies. Some pain ahead. But overall-the game has changed & there’s no stopping the positive things being fought for.
Love it! Spot on and damn I wish there were more of ya out there Skip! Much respect for you and the battle you are spearheading
 
I haven’t been able to read through all the comments to see if it’s been addressed but down in our area farms that might be pushed a couple times during gun season and then left untouched the rest of the year are now leased out by outfitters with blinds and plots on them and hunted all season long and killing deer that used to make it a few more years until they got mature and some turned into giants. And in Van Buren county the doe population is still insanely high.
 
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Show…
Instead of what seems to be a never ending fight for mediocre deer hunting in Iowa, maybe we need to change our approach a bit. Let the numbers fall, let it get washed out. Let the State and DNR get back on our side. Rid it from all that brought it down in the first place and keeps it down. Just a thought.
 
Instead of what seems to be a never ending fight for mediocre deer hunting in Iowa, maybe we need to change our approach a bit. Let the numbers fall, let it get washed out. Let the State and DNR get back on our side. Rid it from all that brought it down in the first place and keeps it down. Just a thought.
No thanks, I think we should keep fighting to keep it as good as possible. Letting it go to hell and then trying to fix it will be nearly impossible, look at Illinois.
 
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Instead of what seems to be a never ending fight for mediocre deer hunting in Iowa, maybe we need to change our approach a bit. Let the numbers fall, let it get washed out. Let the State and DNR get back on our side. Rid it from all that brought it down in the first place and keeps it down. Just a thought.
I’ve thought that as well. (Heck- I’ve thought that about the Libs ruining the country like we seeing now!) But- I assure u- iowa “with problems” is still infinitely better than 90% of midwestern states.
If we wanted to let it go…. Close up shop on IBA & ISC. Let every special interest have a feeding frenzy. Would be toast in 5-7 years. (Maybe faster). If the seasons got changed - it would NEVER come back. Ever. It’s “hurting” but still good now. Ehd is part of that equation. Status quo- we will recover from EHD & we will improve. On top of that - we have an army now. We have legislators on our side, huge amounts of hunters & many lobbying groups. The machine is built & growing. To fight every scumbag. To fight for good changes. We are winning far more than losing. No other state has done what iowa has done & what has happened in last couple years. We are the last great place. I’ll never stop fighting.
 
Aw come on guys..."build back better" works for Biden! :D JK JK

Great points Skip as always. I guess you have to ask yourself, what caused the start of the downward decay 30 some years ago? We're circling the bowl but I'd guess we are due for a bump up. Six months til Rut and a new president. Good hunting!
 
When guys talk about the hey day of deer hunting in the 90s and early 2000s, it raises so many questions for me. I remember hunting during gun 1 in 2004 and seeing 75 deer in one evening. Was that too many deer for that area? I think so. Were there areas that were over carrying capacity? What is the carrying capacity that won't also hurt the farmers livelihood, i.e. crop damage and grazing loss for cattle? To all the guys complaining about all the things that have hurt our deer hunting, how many of the new things that have been allowed or changed have you used or participated in? How many deer were you killing when the numbers were up? What makes a hunt good, based on the number of deer you see or the quality of bucks? I'm convinced there are more mature bucks out there than we think. You just have to be willing to put in the work to find them. I agree that finding access is a real problem. Also do we really need to kill a mature buck EVERY year?
 
Smoking ribs today and had a lot of time on my hands so I found the podcast and listened in. Thanks for sharing. I really enjoyed this!
 
When guys talk about the hey day of deer hunting in the 90s and early 2000s, it raises so many questions for me. I remember hunting during gun 1 in 2004 and seeing 75 deer in one evening. Was that too many deer for that area? I think so. Were there areas that were over carrying capacity? What is the carrying capacity that won't also hurt the farmers livelihood, i.e. crop damage and grazing loss for cattle? To all the guys complaining about all the things that have hurt our deer hunting, how many of the new things that have been allowed or changed have you used or participated in? How many deer were you killing when the numbers were up? What makes a hunt good, based on the number of deer you see or the quality of bucks? I'm convinced there are more mature bucks out there than we think. You just have to be willing to put in the work to find them. I agree that finding access is a real problem. Also do we really need to kill a mature buck EVERY year?

I guess it’s hard to say where the population should be ? I do know a landowner should do the best he can to make his property attractive for deer, but I can guarantee like Skip says that many farms will never hit the carrying capacity that it should.

Myself included …. A 3 letter word (JOB) and two four letter words (WIFE & CASH) hold a lot of landowners back, especially absentee landowners.

I just don’t have $10k annual budget for food plots, and the time required to do the TSI, remove cedars, etc.. it’s easier to collect a cash rent check, then leave a lot of standing crop due to the cash flow situation… Hiring the work done is often a must …

As far as trying to shoot a trophy every year, that is true personal preference. You certainly don’t have to manage for giants. I’d say I’m a trophy hunter, but I’m happy to tag does, and bucks that are older with poor racks . Last year I ate tag soup in 3 states, but still enjoyed every minute of it !
 
Instead of what seems to be a never ending fight for mediocre deer hunting in Iowa, maybe we need to change our approach a bit. Let the numbers fall, let it get washed out. Let the State and DNR get back on our side. Rid it from all that brought it down in the first place and keeps it down. Just a thought.
We'd never get it back. Just like taxes and gov regulation- once it's on the books, there's no going back.

Also, I wish people would understand that the DNR aren't the ones we are fighting. They are hamstrung by the legislature on most issues we care about. Their hands are forced on things like rifles, extended seasons, depredation rules, etc. The DNR only has the legislative authority that is given to them by the state. It sounds backwards, but we should be fighting to give the DNR MORE authority. Let biologists make biological decisions, not legislators that don't know their head from their ass.
 
Is trophy hunting (encouraged by social media) working against us?

- Hypothesis of more recent Huntr podcast (Lindsey episode): Fewer hunters holding more access.

Loss of access due to changes in hunting culture. We all see our parents and grandparents generation centered around deer camps, ..now a thing of the past.. But why?
Welp, sorry cousins and uncles - Mature bucks require seclusion and limited hunter access. Holding mature (trophy) bucks directly works against large party hunting and deer drives.

As hunters, we only want ourselves to have limited, managed excess. Others need to get their own place, or hunt elsewhere.. We're going so far as to own or even lease MULTIPLE other properties to get others "out of the way" to grant ourselves as much individual access to ground looking for the "few" giants. As a result of this culture shift, WE are not shooting as many deer. We're trying to manage for as many deer as possible, and as old as deer as possible. (Remember - We as hunters LIKE seeing deer on our hunts).

Meanwhile the DNR, other agencies are scratching their heads looking at the numbers on the page.. The PAGE says - We're loosing deer hunters, and deer numbers are continuing to rise. Result? Pressure from the Farm Bureau, Auto Insurance Companies = More tags! less restrictions! Open up to any methods!! WE are losing!!

These seasons are becoming more liberal because hunters as a group, are winning.. We are openly defying these game agencies and special interest groups - Managing properties to maximize deer numbers, maximizing access to every property we can find (thereby eliminating hunting competition), being selective about the deer we shoot.. All in an effort to increase trophy opportunities.

But at what cost? Are we our own worst enemy?

Only time will tell.
 
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We'd never get it back. Just like taxes and gov regulation- once it's on the books, there's no going back.

Also, I wish people would understand that the DNR aren't the ones we are fighting. They are hamstrung by the legislature on most issues we care about. Their hands are forced on things like rifles, extended seasons, depredation rules, etc. The DNR only has the legislative authority that is given to them by the state. It sounds backwards, but we should be fighting to give the DNR MORE authority. Let biologists make biological decisions, not legislators that don't know their head from their ass.
not totally disagreeing but letting unelected "biologists make biological decision" without significant oversight by elected representatives is not good either, IMO. We all like to think the DNR biologists are noble and above politics, waste, abuse, mismanagement, etc. But they are also humans who have to survive in a political & bureaucratical system that has to answer to a whole host of people. Including hunters, hikers, campers, horse riders, bird watchers, farmers, boaters, fishermen, etc. These groups have opposing opinions on what biological decisions are important. Also throw into the mix that these biologists also have to provide income to their department for their survival, raises and pensions and chasing $$$ and the betterment of nature don't always parallel.

As a pointed example- Just think of how we all we told we must "follow the science" during Covid. Today it sure seems like a lot of those "scientists" were out for themselves.
 
Is trophy hunting (encouraged by social media) working against us?

- Hypothesis of more recent Huntr podcast (Lindsey episode): Fewer hunters holding more access.

Loss of access due to changes in hunting culture. We all see our parents and grandparents generation centered around deer camps, ..now a thing of the past.. But why?
Welp, sorry cousins and uncles - Mature bucks require seclusion and limited hunter access. Holding mature (trophy) bucks directly works against large party hunting and deer drives.

As hunters, we only want ourselves to have limited, managed excess. Others need to get their own place, or hunt elsewhere.. We're going so far as to own or even lease MULTIPLE other properties to get others "out of the way" to grant ourselves as much individual access to ground looking for the "few" giants. As a result of this culture shift, WE are not shooting as many deer. We're trying to manage for as many deer as possible, and as old as deer as possible. (Remember - We as hunters LIKE seeing deer on our hunts).

Meanwhile the DNR, other agencies are scratching their heads looking at the numbers on the page.. The PAGE says - We're loosing deer hunters, and deer numbers are continuing to rise. Result? Pressure from the Farm Bureau, Auto Insurance Companies = More tags! less restrictions! Open up to any methods!! WE are losing!!

These seasons are becoming more liberal because hunters as a group, are winning.. We are openly defying these game agencies and special interest groups - Managing properties to maximize deer numbers, maximizing access to every property we can find (thereby eliminating hunting competition), being selective about the deer we shoot.. All in an effort to increase trophy opportunities.

But at what cost? Are we our own worst enemy?

Only time will tell.
Deer numbers aren’t continuing to rise though…..just the opposite. Since 2012 they’ve done nothing but go down significantly. As Skip has said the harvest in IA is half of what it was in the 2000s. In IL you have to go back 33 years to when there were less deer vehicle accidents.
 
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