What About Your Dream

[blake]

Since the beginning of the 2009 deer season I have spent a good deal of time in the woods in pursuit of the whitetail deer. I have also talked with countless hunters her is SW Iowa about their hunting experience. And these last few days I have been in daily contact with 5 different shotgun hunting parties.

Let me share with you some of what I have heard and observed:

“Deer numbers are way down”.

I have heard this statement from more hunters than I can count. They are very dissatisfied with the Iowa DNR ‘s managing of the deer herd.

“The November antlerless needs to be discontinued”.
Bow hunters are saying this season is ruining the late November rut; and shotgun hunters are complaining that their chances for a quality shotgun hunt is no longer happening. The November antlerless season is driving the deer into the states and county parks, leased properties, and properties that allow no or limited access.

"We need to stop shooting antlerless deer in January"


Generally I have found that my hunting contacts feel the Conservation Officers in the law enforcement part of the DNR are doing a good job.

These same hunters, myself included feel we need a major shake up at the administrative level in the Iowa DNR. These individuals don’t seem to care at all about the average tax paying hunter. They are rubbing elbows with big money interest, insurance companies, FOI, and out of states outfitters.

Then of course we have the hunting media, you know, those individuals that are “living the dream”. They are living their dream and the promoting the quality trophy deer in Iowa. No wonder everyone from outside of this state wants to come here and hunt trophy whitetails.

But what about your dream…………………….

 

[tlambert]

I agree with all of this. It all comes down to money and greed

 

[risto2351]

Guys I may be the minority but I have to disagree with most of what was said.

I do believe that certain areas are down but I do believe for the most part the IDNR is

doing a fairly good job. I know some people that were not seeing any deer for two or three days and soon as the corn came out the field was loaded.

Kind of hard making accusations when most of these guys only hunt 5 days a year IMO.

I generally stay out of these heated forums but I guess it is my opinion.

Good luck to all of those still hunting me included.

 

[Daver]

I think deer numbers are down, but it is hard to pinpoint how much because of so much standing corn this year.

I would favor eliminating the November doe season and pulling back on the January doe season, but not eliminating it. I think it can be the right thing in certain areas. I think it has clearly had an impact in many areas, but there are still pockets where the doe numbers are pretty wacky on the high side.

 

[risto2351]

Dave,

I would have to agree with everything you said Dave.

As far as the Nov. Doe season I can take it or leave it.

There is 500 - 700 acres of standing corn by me that is hurting me
but I know that. Just because I do not see any I am not jumping to the conclusion that there just isn't any deer.
The warm weather this year and the nice weather this past weekend also had a little to do with the deer harvest IMO.

I think deer numbers are down, but it is hard to pinpoint how much because of so much standing corn this year.

I would favor eliminating the November doe season and pulling back on the January doe season, but not eliminating it. I think it can be the right thing in certain areas. I think it has clearly had an impact in many areas, but there are still pockets where the doe numbers are pretty wacky on the high side.

 

[crietveld]

I don't know if deer numbers are down or just sightings, I saw plenty of deer bow season but the shotgunners are struggling on the same ground.

I like the november antlerless, it gives me a chance to still hunt or sit in a tree while the weather is nice and the deer are calm. My only suggestion to appease the haters would be to not allow party hunting for that season, maybe for the January season too.

Stop shooting does in january? When would people suggest we shoot does if January is no good and November is no good?

I agree the CO's do a good job. The administration, I don't know. They have a tough job balancing the interests of hunters, farmers, insurance companies and the legislature.

My dream, I'm living it. I can walk off my yard and hunt 600 acres of prime habitat. There are a couple neighbors within 2 miles that provide large refuge areas so the deer population is good and the mature buck numbers are great. I just bought 22 acres across the section that is a funnel and bedding area, it will only get better with food plots and habitat improvement. I have been helping a buddy try and get his wife her first deer this year, and that is more fun than shooting one myself. We got her on her first turkey in October and it was cool to see how excited she was about that.

 

[Iowabowtech]

I don't know where the numbers are but I'd love to see the late anterless season go away. I think there are a LOT of shed bucks being killed and it's counterproductive to the philosophy behind the season. I also have major questions as to the accuracy of the harvest report system which SEEMS to be the primary means of tallying herd numbers and trends.

I know they used to do aerial counts and so forth...does anybody know if they are still using multiple methods to determine population and if so, what exactly those methods entail and where they are in practice? Certain areas? Statewide?

 

[risto2351]

Just wondering when would you recommend having a season for those areas that see an abundance of does?

I don't know where the numbers are but I'd love to see the late anterless season go away. I think there are a LOT of shed bucks being killed and it's counterproductive to the philosophy behind the season.

 

[KCCyclone]

I don't know if deer numbers are down or just sightings.

I agree completely. This year it doesn't seem to matter where you're hunting at in the Midwest, all hunters seem to be complaining about the number of deer being seen. I am no different, this year has been one of the worst seasons I've seen as far as quantity is concerned. However, we had approximately 1,000 acres of standing corn within a mile radius of our main property. With all of that cover, of course the deer sightings are going to be down. I've lived in Minnesota and Iowa and now live in Missouri and have had the fortunate opportunity to hunt all three and Kansas as well. All I can say, is just be happy that your gun season is during the first week of December and not during the rut as in Minnesota and Missouri. But one gun season I do like is Kansas' early ML season. For one it gives hunters the opportunity to take a good, mature buck (with a gun) while the deer are still on their summer feeding pattern. Second, you don't have the chance of shooting a shed buck. I would really like to see Missouri get away from their late doe and ML season and push them up closer to Oct. 1. Just my opinion though.

Hopefully all of the forecasted snow won't hinder the corn harvest too much in Iowa. But most of the corn is out around where we currently hunt and the deer sightings are starting to increase. I believe that with as much corn as was around and the length of time it was standing, deer patterns have changed a little bit this year and it will take some adjustments on my part of find them again and I can't count on my typical honey holes from years past.

 

[Iowaide]

I hunt in southeast iowa and I am by know means an expert since I don't get to hunt everywhere. What I can say is for the area we are hunting that we just haven't seen as many deer as usual. The hard part is trying to judge how many deer are out there during shotgun season. We could all have multiple sightings of the same deer being chased from one party of hunters to another. So my judgement comes mostly from my time spent bowhunting. Really I am not a big fan of the Thanksgiving season for all the reason listed above. Might as well open the gun season for all deer a week early at that rate. It's in my opinion that if the state was truly more interested in reducing the deer population we would just do a two for one tag were you get one buck and doe for the same price. What organization in the world could be so lucky to profit from such a problem? Kind of like asking soldiers to pay for their ammo to shoot terrorists?

 

[ElkHunter]

My dream, roll back the clock 20 years. I'm younger, lots of deer and very little outside interest in Iowa. Late 80's early 90's all I needed to do was knock on doors and hunt. We all know those days are gone forever.

Today I enjoy hunting with my grandkids and instilling the love of the great outdoors. Watching them gather a nugget of information and putting it to use. That really puts a big smile on my face. We should all be striving to make sure the next generation gets to partake of the hunting oppertunties we enjoy.

The DNR is under extreme pressure from all sides, FB, insurance, NR's, those living the dream and the beancounters within the department. Today they manage the deer herd not from a biological carrying capacity but rather from a social carrying capacity. Simply put at what level do they get their butts chewed the least, hardly an exact science. We have lots of friends in the DNR and some that aren't.(enough said)

We as hunters are not doing a very good job of letting the DNR and legislators know how we feel and what we are seeing. Let me reword that. We are not speaking as loudly as other groups, keep in mind the squeakie wheel gets the grease. We all talk amongst ourselves about the problems but are we making sure the right people hear our concerns.

Most of you know I'm a strong supporter of the IBA and would love to have everyone be a part of this group. For those who aren't sure about joining the IBA there is another group Iowa Whitetails Forever that is helping to give us a united voice. Check them out at www.iowawhitetailsforever.com

Didn't mean to hijack the thread, but if we don't unite none of us will be living the dream not matter how large or small that dream may be.

 

[iowabucks]

“Deer numbers are way down”.

That is the very same thing i have been seeing and hearing this year. Sad to say the DNR will probably keep this herd reduction plan going until there is nothing left.

"We need to stop shooting antlerless deer in January"

I couldn't agree with them more.


I did send a email to Richard Leopold on these two very subjects. All i got was a two line canned response with no real forethought on what i was talking about.

 

[Shoot2Kill]

How many of you shoot does just to shoot does and HUSH them all? I know it is about heard balance, but when is enough enough? I'm just asking.

Here is what I deal with every year...don't let IA get to this point...EVER.

I moved from AK in 2005 with visions of killing IA deer every fall...well, one thing led to another and we landed in MN instead of IA. I was okay with it, because hell, MN is mostly like IA...or so I thought. Within the first fall hunting here I knew this state was NOTHING like IA...when I started driving 45 miles down a rural county highway to work and rarely EVER saw a deer I knew right then that MN was again nothing like IA. I started to ask around and talked to the neighbors once we finally moved out in the country and started to grasp what I had done to my "deer hunting dream" by moving to central MN.

The deer hutning around here used to fantastic according to my neighbors..I've seen the pics...full meat poles every year back when you could just shoot bucks in the mid to late 90s....then around the year 2000 the MN DNR upped the tags to 5 per hunter throughout much of the farmland zones in MN and people went hog wild....many groups went out and decimated the poplulations shooting everything they could for 2 - 3 years...my neighbors included...and again I've seen those pics...VERY full meat poles and PILES of dead deer.

Fast forward to when I show up here in the fall of 2005....most of the hunters that were shooting 5 per year are now backed off to 3.....and now fast forward to 2009 when nearly half of MN is considered a "lottery" zone where you can shoot ONE, yes ONE flippin' deer per year TOTAL no matter how many seasons/weapons you have. ONE! You can only shoot a doe with a bow on an any sex tag, but if you gun hunt and want to kill a doe you have to draw a lottery permit and if you fill that tag, YOU ARE DONE (in these zones). You can travel north and hunt in the intensive harvest zones and kill more deer but if you like to hunt close to home and live in these "lottery zones" then that is your season. No multiple buck harvests here, no endless doe tags to take to the HUSH locker....you get ONE. You have no idea how much I envy the IA resident...and especially the IA resident landowner. Now granted...MN has things that IA does not, but in the topic of deer hunting my flame has nearly blown out here in MN because of the way it is.

I honestly don't know if I'll ever end up back in Iowa, but I for one hope that some of those doe seasons and endless doe tags are cut back on just so IA does not turn into MN someday. Don't say it won't happen.....my neighbors never saw this happening either back when they killed every deer they saw because the DNR said they could.

Is this happening around you as we speak?

 

[cedar creek]

How many hunters remember the 70's & 80's when you could only shoot one deer a year? You had to send for your shotgun license in August i believe, and if you filled your bow tag you couldn't hunt shotgun. I ate my share of shotgun tags back then!

 

[Iowabowtech]

Just wondering when would you recommend having a season for those areas that see an abundance of does?

A question that always comes up and I'd answer by first saying I'm not 100% sure that we actually even need it right now. I'd sure love to see some firm herd numbers derived from solid proof. And I guess if worse came to worse, I'd rather see an extention from 2nd season shotgun to perhaps the end of December or first week of January for the "anterless only" season using guns. Then shut the guns off and open the second bow season all the way until the end of January. Bowhunters are more likely IMO to postively identify a shed buck simply due to the method of take and distance required before pulling the trigger. Not saying there won't be some sheds out there in Dec, but the vast majority seem to come off in Jan/Feb in my experience.

The only drawback I can see from that scenario is it might make getting a second bowseason buck more of an issue because they'll have higher odds of dropping during that time but I'd rather throw in the towel personally than see a bunch of shed antler bucks go down. I just have a REAL HARD TIME envisioning a 180 class buck hitting the dirt in January to a volley of 14 slugs only to have guys walk up to it and say..."oops". Just my opinion, your mileage may vary.

 

[bloodhoundhandler]

with all the land being bought and leased up with no access to it there will be pockets of high deer numbers I think the hush program leads to a lot of people shooting deer just to be shooting something makes it awful convenient. I think the state needs to really start thinking about not being so generous with doe tags not to mention all the button bucks being shot we delete our deer we are down to squirrels and rabbits to hunt i can guarante that the pheasant numbers will never be back to what they were maybe as hunters we should think twice about shooting does if we think the numbers are down everybody knows its no fun sitting in a tree all fall and not seeing any deer

 

[dblmainbeam]

The county I hunt in the only corn standing is in food plots and I know the numbers are down. The hunting party has switched over to the old day. Buck only!!! Theard needs to be built up. I don't like it but I agree the deer numbers here are sickning. I we pushed at leats 15 different sections and I didnt se 75 deer total.

 

[Liv4Rut]

Honestly what did we expect would happen by pounding does year after year after year after year? If we keep it up, it will get worse each year with lower deer number sightings, there will be a younger age group of does that most likely will only have 1 fawn and simply less bucks. I have seen it first hand in the ammuntion plant. We used to see 20 deer a sit on a late season hunt, now if you see 2-3 a sit that is a dang good night. I know the state will end up like this for the majority of it that gets good hunting pressure. I have seen a lot of folks simply give up hunting there due to the lack of deer sightings. Most people are too lazy to hunt if it is going to be tough for them to find a deer.

 

[sureshot]

This sounds like what bowmaker was predicting last year.....looks like it may have occurred in some parts of the state.

 

[BJohnson]

I think Mike (Liv4Rut) pretty much summed up my opinion on this subject. I know that my county has been allotted a low number (100) but it still seems to have had an impact. Certain gun groups with lots of ground absolutely POUND the does. Individual land owners can do whatever they want but the day of shooting does for me is most likely over unless I am helping a landowner's request.

"Herd management" is a grossly overused term in certain areas.