T_Max
PMA Member
That was a very good video, Skip. I have a general question about drills for the group. There are some things I would never buy used. Too many chances to buy a lemon and not know it until it is too late. There are some things I would never buy new, because used ones are much cheaper and are easy to repair / hard for the previous owner to mess up. Where do drills fall on this spectrum for you? New prices are pretty high for most guys. Do you need a degree in mechanical engineering to maintain / repair them? If you bought a used one with plenty of miles, is it reasonable to expect you can put many more on it? I often have to look at / buy things online through auctions due to time and distance. I have a hard time pulling the trigger on something with so many moving parts sight unseen. Is it reasonable to assume that a guy with some general mechanical skills could overcome most of the issues he might face on one of these machines? I would love to have one, but I have never really been around them.
deep woods goat hunter
PMA Member
Skip-
I that doubletree mix planted or something different?
I that doubletree mix planted or something different?
Really good ?!!!!!!!
1) they are not complex. A planter is much harder to work on. Drills are for sure more basic…. Chain drive system that just meters seed out as u go. Few big metal boxes, some tubes, etc. Changing clutches, chains, bearings & OPENERS is main things & it’s pretty rare I’m ever doing it. Every couple thousand acres maybe. It’s easy & not that expensive Labor is most because there’s so many more rows (7.5” spacing vs a 30” planter)…..
2) being that they are pretty basic - a used Great Plains wouldn’t spook me a bit. Even the worst repairs- not bad at all. They are basic. But the guts of a GP drill are just so much heavier built - why I wouldn’t be afraid of used one. I got a couple other brands used- never again. GP- I’d be just fine with it.
3) so say someone is a “medium size” plotter…. Even a 6’ drill be fine. & a used one…. Not bad. If u own land & gonna do plots forever & want equipment to last- I’d get one. If u aren’t it & maybe not a lot of acres- I’d hire it out or buy cheap stuff. Or heck - guys on a budget- go buy an old minimal till drill with 2 boxes. Lots of options. IMHO- the rotary tillers & the aggressive tillage for years - yikers…. Over time the soil will get worse & worse & failures will be more prevalent and take all the tillage tools - the value- coulda just bought a drill in many cases. Controversial & I’ll upset a few of my friends but rotary tillers should be sold for scrap & destroyed.
. Dbltree mix with some slight tweaks.
T_Max
PMA Member
Sold! I rebuilt a corn planter from the ground up, so looks like I'll have to go ahead and jump in on this! Haha!Really good ?!!!!!!!
1) they are not complex. A planter is much harder to work on. Drills are for sure more basic…. Chain drive system that just meters seed out as u go. Few big metal boxes, some tubes, etc. Changing clutches, chains, bearings & OPENERS is main things & it’s pretty rare I’m ever doing it. Every couple thousand acres maybe. It’s easy & not that expensive Labor is most because there’s so many more rows (7.5” spacing vs a 30” planter)…..
2) being that they are pretty basic - a used Great Plains wouldn’t spook me a bit. Even the worst repairs- not bad at all. They are basic. But the guts of a GP drill are just so much heavier built - why I wouldn’t be afraid of used one. I got a couple other brands used- never again. GP- I’d be just fine with it.
3) so say someone is a “medium size” plotter…. Even a 6’ drill be fine. & a used one…. Not bad. If u own land & gonna do plots forever & want equipment to last- I’d get one. If u aren’t it & maybe not a lot of acres- I’d hire it out or buy cheap stuff. Or heck - guys on a budget- go buy an old minimal till drill with 2 boxes. Lots of options. IMHO- the rotary tillers & the aggressive tillage for years - yikers…. Over time the soil will get worse & worse & failures will be more prevalent and take all the tillage tools - the value- coulda just bought a drill in many cases. Controversial & I’ll upset a few of my friends but rotary tillers should be sold for scrap & destroyed.
Dbltree mix with some slight tweaks.
Bucksnbears
Well-Known Member
Great video Skip.
I personally have no need for one as all my plots are 1/4 acre or less.
I'm stuck to the broadcast and drag method.
I personally have no need for one as all my plots are 1/4 acre or less.
I'm stuck to the broadcast and drag method.
Well done, Skip! You made some excellent points on soil health. I started with 2.8% organic matter on a soil health project on May 1st of this year, and will be monitoring it. Good stuff!
CottonwoodCanyon
Well-Known Member
One thing to consider too, is that a lot of no-till rental opportunities through Pheasants Forever chapters, NRCS offices, and others for those that don't want to bite off the price tag.
Skip,
I agree with everything you’ve said on this subject, especially the rototiller comment. They destroy less than perfect soils, especially on a slope of any grade. They dry out the soil to extremes, create a hard pan that exceeds comprehension, and kill earthworms and most other life in the soil. When you consider the cost of a large (6 ft or larger ) rototiller, a heavy cultipacker, a sub-soil ripper, a mechanical spreader, and perhaps a disc, the cost adds up quickly. Add to this the cost of repair for the damages these machines do to the soil ecosystem and you find a hefty cost for less than acceptable results. Till a dry marginal slope up into a fine powder, cultipack and plant a crop, but have it get hit by a thunderstorm and return to find all your topsoil gone. That’s something you won’t recover at any price. Also, tillage will bring stuff out of the seed bank ya never thought existed ! I’m speaking from experience gained as a younger man, when I was excessively energetic, struggling to make things happen, possessed little cultivation knowledge, but found out the hard way that rototillers could destroy the thin layer of top soil we had in WV. No till is the way to go for soil and moisture conservation if for no other reason. Rentals are an option and used equipment is affordable if you know what a good deal looks like. Just my $0.02
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I agree with everything you’ve said on this subject, especially the rototiller comment. They destroy less than perfect soils, especially on a slope of any grade. They dry out the soil to extremes, create a hard pan that exceeds comprehension, and kill earthworms and most other life in the soil. When you consider the cost of a large (6 ft or larger ) rototiller, a heavy cultipacker, a sub-soil ripper, a mechanical spreader, and perhaps a disc, the cost adds up quickly. Add to this the cost of repair for the damages these machines do to the soil ecosystem and you find a hefty cost for less than acceptable results. Till a dry marginal slope up into a fine powder, cultipack and plant a crop, but have it get hit by a thunderstorm and return to find all your topsoil gone. That’s something you won’t recover at any price. Also, tillage will bring stuff out of the seed bank ya never thought existed ! I’m speaking from experience gained as a younger man, when I was excessively energetic, struggling to make things happen, possessed little cultivation knowledge, but found out the hard way that rototillers could destroy the thin layer of top soil we had in WV. No till is the way to go for soil and moisture conservation if for no other reason. Rentals are an option and used equipment is affordable if you know what a good deal looks like. Just my $0.02
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Mark Ferman
Member
Skip -
Need a little help figuring out the mix here. In this blend you mention 125 lbs. per acre of which 60 lbs. for peas and the others are rye, oats, triticale and winter wheat. I thought I read in a previous post (dbltree or someone's modification) - 50 lbs. each of rye, oats and peas - which would bring this to considerably more then 125 lbs. per acre. So, how much rye, oats, triticale and winter wheat go with the 60 lbs. of peas.
Just wanted to ensure I have the poundages per acre correct.
Thanks
Dag nab I missed this !!!! This .02 is SPOT ON PRICELESS!!!!!!!!
I put a “lot” on
. I’ll give u an example of what I ran this year. If you look at it…. Doesn’t look too thick or any issue….50-65 lbs peas
50 oats
50 rye
50 winter wheat.
(Sometimes I’ll throw 50 extra of triticale or sub something if I can’t find xyz)
5-10 in clovers. 2 lbs radish.
So, call it 200 lbs. would it be fine if u dialed down to 125? YEP. Be ok if u accidentally put 300 lbs out? YEP. Especially if fertility is right. I’ll admit- right wrong or indifferent… I like a lot of diversity & some pretty stout rates. The one thing I’d keep FOR SURE… 50 lbs peas. U could cut the others in half & be fine.
Mark Ferman
Member
Got it - thanks for the quick response! I like going the heavier route, but wanted to make sure that I didn't "over-seed" and created too much competition within the grains.I put a “lot” on
50-65 lbs peas
50 oats
50 rye
50 winter wheat.
(Sometimes I’ll throw 50 extra of triticale or sub something if I can’t find xyz)
5-10 in clovers. 2 lbs radish.
So, call it 200 lbs. would it be fine if u dialed down to 125? YEP. Be ok if u accidentally put 300 lbs out? YEP. Especially if fertility is right. I’ll admit- right wrong or indifferent… I like a lot of diversity & some pretty stout rates. The one thing I’d keep FOR SURE… 50 lbs peas. U could cut the others in half & be fine.
@Mark Ferman here are a few pics of Doubletree type mix- 50/50/50 oats/rye grain/peas. I also put ground hog forage radishes and white clover in the small seed box. This year I’m going to spray a lot of my white clover and reseed medium red clover In my mixes. The white clover tends to dominate my plots.
This is December 30 and this was seeded into a summer mix around Labor Day. No snow that year.
Close up
Peas on May 13
I did a commercial Fall Release mix at the recommended rate this year. It was a little too wet when I planted, then it got dry for about a month and a half? Really didn’t get the tonnage but that might have been because of conditions. Kinda thin. I’m pretty sure I’m going back to the Doubletree 50/50/50 in the big seed box with medium red clover and radish/turnips in the small seed box this fall. Seems like you cant miss doing that.
This is December 30 and this was seeded into a summer mix around Labor Day. No snow that year.
Close up
Peas on May 13
I did a commercial Fall Release mix at the recommended rate this year. It was a little too wet when I planted, then it got dry for about a month and a half? Really didn’t get the tonnage but that might have been because of conditions. Kinda thin. I’m pretty sure I’m going back to the Doubletree 50/50/50 in the big seed box with medium red clover and radish/turnips in the small seed box this fall. Seems like you cant miss doing that.
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Question about soil prep… what’s your preferred herbicide cocktail? Has anyone “planted green”?
When I’ve done a typical gly+2,4D burn down 2 weeks before a late July-mid August drilling, a dry Sept stunts growth so that the entire fall, the deer keep everything mowed down to the ground.
The past two years, I’ve done a spring mix and then crimped (homemade crimper) and drilled the fall mix directly. This seemed to produce a ton of weeds and grasses that aren’t desirable.
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When I’ve done a typical gly+2,4D burn down 2 weeks before a late July-mid August drilling, a dry Sept stunts growth so that the entire fall, the deer keep everything mowed down to the ground.
The past two years, I’ve done a spring mix and then crimped (homemade crimper) and drilled the fall mix directly. This seemed to produce a ton of weeds and grasses that aren’t desirable.
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I either burn down with super heavy gly + ams & plant immediately or close to immediately or i run 2,4-d with gly & give it 7-ish days (labeled wait interval before planting). Now- do I like being around any of that? No. But I like it way better than tearing up my soil. & it’s such a small amount of use/exposure that it doesn’t bother me. Later on- when drones available more- be the ticket. Everything has its issues. When we have drones.. Then we have all this solved EXCEPT the issue of what gly does to the soil. But again- I’ll take the impacts of gly a billion times over the impacts of tillage & soil loss. If one wanted to remove gly…. Mowing clovers for example is an option. Or running a mix of pre-emergents. On a side tangent …. If we looked Through every method of farming with every single one having +/-‘s…. IMO- the most sustainable with least amount of downsides is agroforestry…. All your food production starting with the trees. Many ways to get this done with no chemicals & no “yearly replanting”. No working of soil, takes in carbon, builds soil (VERY SLOWLY over time unless u adding wood chips which speed it), etc etc. Most regenerative & sustainable practices are founded in trees & shrubs (& complimentary things like asparagus, raspberries, other veggies, etc etc). In theory- could kind off that alone but add in the animals you hunt from that & the fish in the ponds…. Ok- sorry on the adhd rant.
Meyer30
Active Member
If weeds are a problem, you might consider beans for your spring planting. That will give you herbicide options to be weed-free going in to fall. In the fall, I drill my rye mix right in to the standing beans. Then the following spring, I drill beans into the rye and crimp the rye. This rotation has been a huge help getting weeds under control for me and provides a smorgasbord.
Mark Ferman
Member
Great - Thanks for sharing.
I’m glad I read this. Very forgiving on seeding rate- and something in that mix is going to be ideal for the conditions you are dealt.I put a “lot” on
50-65 lbs peas
50 oats
50 rye
50 winter wheat.
(Sometimes I’ll throw 50 extra of triticale or sub something if I can’t find xyz)
5-10 in clovers. 2 lbs radish.
So, call it 200 lbs. would it be fine if u dialed down to 125? YEP. Be ok if u accidentally put 300 lbs out? YEP. Especially if fertility is right. I’ll admit- right wrong or indifferent… I like a lot of diversity & some pretty stout rates. The one thing I’d keep FOR SURE… 50 lbs peas. U could cut the others in half & be fine.