Giant Deer of Iowa are rapidly becoming a past memory

[Muskrat24]

Everyone makes great arguements both ways. Its easy for me to agree with most all of you in some fashion but the for me the winning argument is Skips comment of "Death by 1000 cuts". It's not one particular thing alone that got us to our current situation and it's not one particular change that will solve our issues and stop the bleeding. We need to remedy the situation somehow someway even if that means the smallest of changes in our regulations. Slow the bleeding of just a couple of those 1000 cuts. Sacrificing a little could help a lot.

100% agree. And I am a trophy hunter. I believe ALL the topics brought up have some impact. BUT what is the one thing that IMO is the biggest cause of the drop in quality, POPULATION. What is the one thing out of the topics that does not take legislative action, population through DNR reducing antlerless tags. Is there really ANYONE in the hunting community that increased population will divide. I doubt it. Skip if the DNR has changed its tune and cares about resource and wants Iowa to get back to the greatest whitetail state, then they should prove it. We can spend our time and money chasing these other topics but it is a waste in the grand scheme compared to population. Based on actions by DNR I think the population is right where they want it and this is the new Iowa going forward. I concede that in some areas (skips area) thermals and such are a problem for poaching but not in my average joe neighborhood. I’ve shot two deer in Iowa since 2012 and before that I averaged one every other year and there is way more parcels “ managed” for deer now. Quality is down along with population since EHD of 2012.

 

[IowaBowHunter1983]

If I could wave a magic wand, all this thermal technology would go back in the box.

Im not a government regulations advocate at all but that's a technology i seriously question if it should be available to the general public. This extends way beyond hunting. Remember DC sniper? Wait till a crazy person does the same thing under the cover of darkness.

 

[booneriverbucks]

Was discussing with skip and Curtis. Im curious on input from a broader audience

Topic: Thermal predator hunting

You can hunt year round with a thermal. You cannot hunt during deer season with Night Vision. I think the original intent was to eliminate guy out with rifles at night during deer season.

1. Its very clear to me that the technology (thermals) outpaced regulations.

2. More coyotes dead the better. Clearly.

3. If everyone followed the rules this wouldnt even be a discussion. I understand the "poachers gonna poach" argument.

4. We are losing deer to thermal poaching. Zero doubt about it.


So, should thermal hunting be allowed during deer season? If it was outlawed anyone out doing it would be "up to no good". Much easier to police and monitor. Right now you cant tell the good guys from the bad unless you catch them red handed in the act.

Thoughts?

Some states have caliber restrictions while using thermals.. South Dakota for sure. A little irrelevant as I’m sure a .223 can poach something just fine. I think most would support what you are saying.

 

[Sligh1]

If the DEER DICTATOR could run the show…. combined with some love & empathy mixed with the iron fist of Stalin or China’s Xi Jinping …. A 16 point starting list shall be Enacted immediately.

1) 1 buck for residents with all gun season dates being same & having to choose one like we have now. 2nd buck tag for 320 acres or more (remember- this is a dictator so I don’t care if u don’t like it! ) No tag sharing.
2) crossbow lobbyists are banned from iowa & the mere mention of destroying our resource by putting them in the regular archery season will have a long prison sentence. They will remain in late ML & for seniors, disabled or injured in archery in perpetuity.
3) seasons all get lightly condensed so the last day of deer season is Jan 1.
4) doe #’s across state are increased in all areas Substantially where we can allow for high & sustainable doe Harvest. Youth season will then become doe only. The dictator shall tour each township of each county to evaluate deer #’s with a thumbs up or down until all areas pass.
5) drones for deer recovery allowed by licensed pilots & all activity & reports are given to the dictator weekly on results. No hunting on flown parcels for 3 full days. No scouting for deer with drones permitted.
6) no thermals sept 15 to Jan 1.
7) egregious poaching will be sentenced to death - goring by rutting whitetail bucks. Poacher will be covered in estrous doe pheromones & placed in a UFC style octagon with 6 rutting bucks.
8) all complaining farmers will allow public hunting access to their land.
9) coyote bounty of $100 each
10) a stiff fine will be enacted & 30 days hard labor for any hunter shooting a button buck.
11) farm bureau must be dismembered & closed.
12) cell cameras must have a 48 hour delay.
13) it is illegal to sit ON the fence of any property. A 50 yard buffer must be obeyed by all parties.
14) a public roast that also includes eggs, tomatoes & other various throwing objects for audience for any hunter shooting a buck that’s 2 or 3 years old that scores over 150”. 60 days in prison labor camp immediately after. Exceptions for new hunters & kids will be made on case by case basis & with some compassion from the state.
15) no hunter shall pass a low scoring deer scoring lower than 120” if they know that deer is 5+. Penalty on a case by case basis.
16) instant adjustment on tags in ehd areas. All CWD testing dollars will be diverted to ehd research & CWD cure/immunity solutions.

This will fix the state. If you don’t like it…. It would be in your best interest not to say so- the Deer Dictator tolerates no dissent!

 

[booneriverbucks]

^^^^ Well done!. except you didn’t address non-res access Chairman Sligh

 

[Hardwood11]

Acreage limit isn’t the way to handle it. Someone with 80 acres in the FR program would qualify and they don’t even pay taxes on it. Eliminate them completely if needed as depredation tags are available where warranted. 2 anysex tags, 1 bow and 1 firearm and nobody can cry that they’re being discriminated against. If you’re a horn hunter, shoot 2 bucks, if you’re a meat hunter, you have options.

This whole debate is about horns yet the majority are meat hunters. If bucks were just a different color, we wouldn’t even be having it.

100% agree that the late season should be the first to go. That would also address the shed buck concerns and help the population. 65% of counties having antlerless quotas doesn’t help.

Quote fm Iowaqdm:
Just because a county has extra doe tags allocated doesn’t mean they have a surplus of does. In any county there are pockets of management or controlled hunting that will have good populations.

This is exactly what I see locally. If we could get the state to take that into consideration when they set their quotas, it would also improve a lot of things. It’s almost as if the route surveys are only along those areas. Taking disease into account would also help. I see less than 1/4 the deer I did 5 yrs ago and it’s not for lack of habitat.

1 buck max with bow & 1 with a gun.. I could see that being a possibility… again I think Iowa has to limit tags in mostly dirt-agriculture counties. That’s just a big flaw in my opinion.

 

[Hawk32]

Was discussing with skip and Curtis. Im curious on input from a broader audience

Topic: Thermal predator hunting

You can hunt year round with a thermal. You cannot hunt during deer season with Night Vision. I think the original intent was to eliminate guy out with rifles at night during deer season.

1. Its very clear to me that the technology (thermals) outpaced regulations.

2. More coyotes dead the better. Clearly.

3. If everyone followed the rules this wouldnt even be a discussion. I understand the "poachers gonna poach" argument.

4. We are losing deer to thermal poaching. Zero doubt about it.


So, should thermal hunting be allowed during deer season? If it was outlawed anyone out doing it would be "up to no good". Much easier to police and monitor. Right now you cant tell the good guys from the bad unless you catch them red handed in the act.

Thoughts?

Legalizing thermals is one of the worst things Iowa ever did. Ya, no doubt the most effective way to kill coyotes but the negatives far outweigh the positives as far as I'm concerned and it would really hard to change my mind. I could go on a 2 page rant that goes well beyond deer. 100% be on board of them not being allowed from October 1st through Jan 10th. This legislative change would top of my list.

 

[Daver]

Was discussing with skip and Curtis. Im curious on input from a broader audience

Topic: Thermal predator hunting

You can hunt year round with a thermal. You cannot hunt during deer season with Night Vision. I think the original intent was to eliminate guy out with rifles at night during deer season.

1. Its very clear to me that the technology (thermals) outpaced regulations.

2. More coyotes dead the better. Clearly.

3. If everyone followed the rules this wouldnt even be a discussion. I understand the "poachers gonna poach" argument.

4. We are losing deer to thermal poaching. Zero doubt about it.


So, should thermal hunting be allowed during deer season? If it was outlawed anyone out doing it would be "up to no good". Much easier to police and monitor. Right now you cant tell the good guys from the bad unless you catch them red handed in the act.

Thoughts?

OR...just raise the fine(s) for poaching up to where it really hurts/isn't "worth" it?? They are barely a scratch now, IMO. Note - to my knowledge we are not losing deer to thermal poaching in our area. I freely admit that I might feel differently if we were. But generally, more rules seem to not be the better way IMO.

 

[Bucksnbears]

Legalizing thermals is one of the worst things Iowa ever did. Ya, no doubt the most effective way to kill coyotes but the negatives far outweigh the positives as far as I'm concerned and it would really hard to change my mind. I could go on a 2 page rant that goes well beyond deer. 100% be on board of them not being allowed from October 1st through Jan 10th. This legislative change would top of my list.

I know lots of guys that kill the crap out of coyotes with thermal.
Would bet both nuts that they would never poach a deer while doing so.
The 100's (1000's) of coyotes they kill annually are WAY more of a benifit then a few deer poached with thermals.

I know several guys that lock up good properti$e and wont set foot on them until their cell cam " tells them to".
locking up and maybe not even hunting them that year sucks! The future of our sport will be dictated by kids/ new hunters having a place to hunt. We ALL MUST remember that!

Lots of good points made fellas.

Skip for POTUS.

 

[madplotter]

You don't need two or three tags to kill a bully buck. You only need one. Better genetic bucks live to breed. If you have two bully bucks, you kill the second one next year ... or find a friend.

Amen to this...

 

[Matthewfox_45]

I’d bet cars poach more deer than guys with thermals. Probably shouldn’t allow vehicles from Oct 1-Jan 10. Or better yet, make it illegal to have a thermal scope in a vehicle??? Sorry, but bad people do bad things. I could’ve poached many a deer with my thermal, but I haven’t and I’d guess most thermal owners fall into the same category as me.

 

[madplotter]

One other thing. In general terms Iowa is easy to hunt compared to some other places. There isnt endless cover. Its pretty obvious what deer are going to do.

One example. I scouted southern Ohio extensively for 4 straight days. Theres alot of places in didn't even know where to start. Gigantic swaths of timber. Mini mountains. Incredibly difficult hunting imo.

Spots in Kansas. Vast vast areas away from everything. Deer can just disappear.

Harder for deer to get old in Iowa IMO. If not for the regulations Iowa would be terrible in a hurry.

Great post. IMO, It doesn't take much of a hunter to harvest a great deer in Iowa but to do it consistently takes some skill and/or some extra fine ground...

 

[madplotter]

My rambling for today...

Groups that operate on shady info IMO...of course the forever evil Farm Bureau & a little group that carries some weight in the state house...ABATE. For some reason lawmakers listen to those yahoos. ABATE lobbies constantly for liberal hunting regs. Joined for 1 year and was stunned at how they would sit at a bar, bash bowhunters, drink non-stop for a couple hours, crank up the hog and blast off. "I hit a deer with my motorcycle so we better kill em' all". Never mind they had just hit the 6th bar in 7 hours, just ignore that tidbit. lol

I am not lying, all true...Now I appreciate not having to wear a helmet all the time, so they get the credit for keeping Iowa a choice state. But that demonstrates the type of pull they have with certain legislators. When every insurance company and nanny group has successfully lobbied for helmets all over the country and yet Iowa remains a beacon of choice, that's some political horsepower in my book. It makes me wonder how many small groups we don't think about that are shady?

I want to share that Skip made a compelling argument for the good that the ISC does. I joined and received a phone call from Tyler shortly after. I was blown away at how they have a great plan and are working to execute. The organization is well organized and IMO they are working for us. I suggest the IBO and ISC are both a must join. Great organizations...

 

[madplotter]

Lawsuit claims Farm Bureau hid fraudulent activity from insurance regulators • Iowa Capital Dispatch

Two alleged whistleblowers are suing Farm Bureau's insurance company for alleged racketeering and concealment of fraud from state regulators.

iowacapitaldispatch.com

We are in a negotiation with them as their client hit my daughter. 100% their fault. The worst scum I have encountered in the industry...They are a bad company.

 

[booneriverbucks]

I understand the pro thermal arguement but the intent of the current regs on similar tech is clearly to limit potential poaching.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bucksnbears]

Infrared and thermals are not the same?

 

[DMarley83]

Where are the regs of legal use of thermals?

 

[booneriverbucks]

Infrared and thermals are not the same?

Not the same exactly but I would say they are as it relates to this.. a scope can be infrared and not thermal but thermal scopes are still measuring heat which is a form of IR. There is a difference between the two if you are talking about a regular IR scope and a thermal scope and if it needs to be clarified it probably could. Normal IR=night vision. Also, could clarify whether it is also talking about true IR/Thermal scopes or just IR lights

 

[Bucksnbears]

Guy, I know it's hard to do (MYSELF) included, but...., we ALL must look ahead and take into consideration what the future looks like.
Those of us that have prime hunting properties to own/ hunt.., it's easier to fall into the " management " thingy and our judgements can/ does get clouded.

I've spent the better part of 30 years trying to lock up prime grounds for a " trophy buck". And was very successful doing so. Realized a few years ago there was nobody out hunting. Guess why?.. because I was a greedy S.O.B., that's why.. had 1000s of prime acres to myself and oftentimes I wouldn't even hunt some properties.

My attitude probably wiped out a good # of future hunters (hell, I know it did)!

Didn't care less 10 years ago but it bothers the shit out me now!.
Have given up hunting permission in the past 5 years or so to a few 1000 acres.
Have even asked the landowners to please let others hunt.

There are 2 things that majorly turned around my way of thinking.
#1. I'm a bear hunting FREAK... and would scout my ass off to find the best private lands to do so!.
Got permission on a piece that borders a HUGE refuge bout 20 years ago.
World class bearhunting spot and between myself, wife,brother, we killed many bear there. The property owner one year had a daughter that was 14 that shown an interest in shooting a bear and asked if I'd take her.
Of course I says yes but I sure didn't want too...
Opening evening, I took the young girl with me half (livid) about going through all that work only to have a kid " ruin" it for me.
A bear comes in, she shoots, makes a great shot, bear is down within eyesite.
The total utter joy she felt is something I'll never forget!
Another is, going out of my way, spending alot of $$ to take a young gal bear hunting. She was a paraplegic, had zero $ but her goal was to shoot a bear.
A friend begged me to take her out. I did (even though I didn't want too).
She ended up killing the most gorgeous bear I've ever seen
at 10 yards! . 500#± and a chocolate.
The TOTAL JOY that they felt changed my whole attitude on hunting and life in general.

Since then, I've made it almost a mission to help others get into hunting.
What once was an uncontrollable urge to be greedy has now turned 100% other way. Hell, nowdays ill try and find even a small 5 acre tract for a kid to hunt. They just want a place to go.

I sleep much better nowdays

Didn't mean to de_ rail this topic. I get that way sometimes.

Let's ALL look back to when we were young kids, reflect and remember the first squirrel, rabbit,duck,deer we took and the absolute joy that brought.
Those memories have made MANY of us who we are today.

Grand scheme or thing, hunting should be a fun,healthy, conservation passion.

Big bucks have ruined that. (Guilty).

 

[seven twenty]

Infrared and thermals are not the same?

Infrared scopes need an IR light with them or they’re pretty much useless at night. Hence the reg specifying that the light must be attached to the method of take. A thermal senses temp differences and does not need an external light source.