booneriverbucks
PMA Member
Will message you maps and info. I did just order a .22ARC upper I might eventually have to try out but it’ll probably be about a month yet before my right arm works good enough to bother going hunting. Good luck!
Thermal Hunting Regulation Ideas, Poaching, all groups- SOLUTIONS!
booneriverbucks
PMA Member
No factual information but the rumors around me are always that the squirrel hunters do the most damage
So the CO's say they stop and check poachers and they use the excuse that they are coyote hunting. What I don't understand, or what my question is: what do they need to ticket/prosecute even if coyote hunting was shut down? Can't you legally have a loaded gun in the vehicle if you have your concealed carry permit (or maybe you don't even need that - I admittedly don't know the rules anymore)? Can't you just drive around with a thermal or night vision, and as long as they don't catch you shooting, there's nothing they can do?
Do we need rules that you can't even drive around with a thermal or night vision - similar to spot lighting? And even if we get that, how hard is it going to be to catch/prove that they were doing it - as in the CO has to see someone looking through a monocle in their vehicle at night in the dark?
In summary, is there a good understanding on how strict the regulations need to be to help impact this? Did they CO's that have been discussing this have recommendations on what the regulations need to be shut down the poachers? My understanding is that aside from drastic increases in penalties, the poachers are going to poach, regardless of what laws they are breaking, so how do we best alter the laws to be able to prosecute when the CO's come across them?
Do we need rules that you can't even drive around with a thermal or night vision - similar to spot lighting? And even if we get that, how hard is it going to be to catch/prove that they were doing it - as in the CO has to see someone looking through a monocle in their vehicle at night in the dark?
In summary, is there a good understanding on how strict the regulations need to be to help impact this? Did they CO's that have been discussing this have recommendations on what the regulations need to be shut down the poachers? My understanding is that aside from drastic increases in penalties, the poachers are going to poach, regardless of what laws they are breaking, so how do we best alter the laws to be able to prosecute when the CO's come across them?
Hawk32
PMA Member
I don't think it's that simple and I know most here won't give 2 shits about this but this would really upset the coon hunters and would not fly with their association if you said NR couldn't purchase an Iowa hunting and fur harvester. I know it's not as big of sport as it used to be but there are still a lot of guys that travel in the fall to hunt with people from other states. Whether it's just to hunt with buddies for a few nights, possibly purchase a hound, or even to see a potential stud dog go. It happens a lot. I've done it going to other states and I've had a lot of people come here and hunt with me for those reasons over the years. Even though a NR doesn't need a license for a UKC or PKC sanctioned hunt there are still a fair amount of those being hosted during those months so I'm not sure how a rule like that would apply to them.
seven twenty
PMA Member
I understand that and have mentioned the same in other posts. The fact is that unless you just shut all hunting off, there will be an excuse to be out there. I’m not promoting the idea, just stating the facts.
tall@wide
PMA Member
I had someone hunting in one of my blinds last year. I went to secure my blinds for the off season around March and found all the windows unlatched in one. I firmly believe they were coming in at night and hunting with thermals. Now I lock all the blinds.
I have had this very discussion regarding thermals with a couple CO’s, DNR employees, and numerous friends, we discussed the area’s CO’s cover and what is best for deer hunters and all of Iowa’s outdoorsmen.
This is exactly what I have said to my friends, and what I will say here….I don’t expect cops to stand outside my house to make sure someone doesn’t break in. Likewise, I don’t expect a CO to sit by my farm to make sure someone doesn’t poach a buck. Both of those responsibilities fall on me. What I do expect from both is to come when I have caught someone or suspect something has happened to investigate. I assure everyone here I have had my share of issues from trespassing, poaching, guys running hounds, stray packs of dogs, guys shooting from the road, you name it. My local game warden lives approximately 20 minutes from my farm. If he is not available there is usually a sheriff deputy close by. Otherwise, park rangers also have law enforcement capabilities. I have never called and not had one of those three show up in a timely manner. By that I mean before the violators have left. Your job is to gather as much information as you can and get a LEO there to get any additional information needed. The trespassing and other game violation tickets can be written after the CO gets there and has had time to investigate. It is ultimately up to us to patrol our farms and neighborhoods. Just like the police, the CO can’t be everywhere at the same time to stop the bad guys. Even if there were two CO per county it still wouldn’t stop the guys determined to poach.
Closing thermal hunting for one month or two won’t stop the bad guys. They intend to break the law one way or another. It is up to us to help catch them. Cell cams really help with this problem. Real time data at your fingertips. A trespasser walks by a cell camera and you got him. Picture forwarded to CO and you start looking for the guy while the CO/PR/LEO is on their way. Same with a truck driving by slowly at 1 AM heading one direction, same truck drives back by slowly at 1:05 AM heading the opposite. That means it is time to go for a drive. You have a picture of the truck so it is easy to identify. You showing up in the middle of the night when they end up in your neighborhood lets any trouble makers know they are being watched. Now if you guys legislate for a delay on cell cam picture delivery times then I guess you guys will just have to go on random patrols at night. Have fun.
One CO I talked with told me they have seen no increase in poaching cases since thermal hunting has taken off. Another CO definitely didn’t like thermals being out there but didn’t report an increase in poaching cases either. Seemed like his biggest issue was from a privacy standpoint with people being able to look onto your property and his. That is definitely a good argument, definitely more efficient but not too much different than someone looking over your farm with binoculars during the day.
I have also talked with several friends who own land. Some with multiple farms in different counties and some with only one farm or a couple farms close to each other. Not one of them has found a buck they suspect was poached in the last 5-10 years. So I have to believe this poaching issue is really limited to just “certain” neighborhoods.
In my opinion, you are not going to be able to stop people from owning thermals. You are not going to be able to stop people from having them in their vehicles whether on the road or driving across their farm. I would bet, push come to shove you couldn’t even ticket someone for shooting their thermal rifle at night on private property without catching them shooting something prohibited. So you won’t be able to restrict people like you’re thinking. If you think you’re going to pass some piece of legislation that restricts someone’s right to own or use their legally owned rifle and thermal. I think you’re mistaken. You will be able to restrict legal hunting, but what does that really get you? Less coyotes and raccoons shot? I definitely know you won’t be able to sleep soundly because of restricting the coyote and raccoon hunters, because the deer poachers will still be out there. I would argue that having legit coyote and raccoon guys out hunting is a better option for helping to keep poachers at bay in your neighborhood than passing some unenforceable legislation.
I wish there was a simple fix. Unfortunately, there isn’t. The technology is available and the guys that are determined to poach will continue to poach regardless of closing thermal hunting during November, December or the whole season for that matter. We just have to use the technology at our disposal to help catch them. Which I have to say includes cell cams and thermals. I definitely wouldn’t delay cell cam picture delivery because they are the best tool out there to monitor your property for trespassing and poaching.
tracker
Life Member
I don't think its a bad idea to try and get something started with this. I do believe we are still in the first phase of where issues can lead to.
The first people to purchase thermal were spending quite a bit to get to own it, not so much anymore.
Using the cell phone cameras as a comparable, the first cams were pretty pricey, and you also had to top it off with a monthly cell phone payment, that kept some purchasers from going after it early. Now you can buy new and used ones pretty reasonable. Plus, a lot of guys don't seem to care about the extra charge of the carrier service since they have seen the advantages it gained them.
The thermals have now been around long enough that used ones are coming up for sale with new ones also in the affordable range for the average Joe. The suppressors will soon follow since the tax stamp has been removed. They are flying of the shelf with probably the small caliber can getting the most benefit since the tax was almost as much as the suppressor.
The amount of people that will now own a thermal and a suppressor will definitely increase with the affordability the market has presented. It's hard to stay ahead of rules/regulations as it is, but if we can go to our local sporting goods supplier and they are talking about how many more units they sell now and the increased wait times for approval then we have to know the surge is coming.
The first people to purchase thermal were spending quite a bit to get to own it, not so much anymore.
Using the cell phone cameras as a comparable, the first cams were pretty pricey, and you also had to top it off with a monthly cell phone payment, that kept some purchasers from going after it early. Now you can buy new and used ones pretty reasonable. Plus, a lot of guys don't seem to care about the extra charge of the carrier service since they have seen the advantages it gained them.
The thermals have now been around long enough that used ones are coming up for sale with new ones also in the affordable range for the average Joe. The suppressors will soon follow since the tax stamp has been removed. They are flying of the shelf with probably the small caliber can getting the most benefit since the tax was almost as much as the suppressor.
The amount of people that will now own a thermal and a suppressor will definitely increase with the affordability the market has presented. It's hard to stay ahead of rules/regulations as it is, but if we can go to our local sporting goods supplier and they are talking about how many more units they sell now and the increased wait times for approval then we have to know the surge is coming.
Came here to post this too
That’s a great point!! I think we should all work together to ban guns!! I mean maybe a musket at the most. We have the 2nd amendment only for hunting & when they wrote that it’s when muskets were the norm. No guns, no problems!!!! Duh.
. It’s fun to make the whacko’s arguments on some issues. 
.On a serious note - when we make laws or try to come up with VIABLE solutions - we have to be realistic about bigger issues than just poaching for example. I might think that guns in vehicles will create more situations where poaching occurs …. I’m sure it does. Does any of us want to remove guns to slow poaching? No. I truly don’t. On the other side of that…. We can regulate how a tool, weapon or combination fit into seasons, takes or specific uses. Heck, even a hand held radio …. I can have them & use them & no one can take them away - clearly. But- the law is black & white- clear as day…. I can’t use them with a group while we are hunting “chasing deer” or doing a drive or whatever. I can go fly a drone around all over my land. I can’t go use it to hunt for deer. I can have a rifle & a spotlight. The second I’m in possession of both in my truck & put that light into the field at deer…. There’s a line & law that is crossed & broken.
All my ramblings…. This is not easy to regulate. Especially if we can’t take them out of some or all of deer season. Which, if it’s impossible…. only due to people objecting - that’s only reason!!!! Other states have outlawed it while we have not… If we can’t- then all we can do is: 1) extremely clear language on what’s illegal & specify how any set of tools may be used or not used. 2) extreme penalties that are publicized & truly make violators think twice (I am a HUGE fan of this!!!!!!). 3) far larger presence of law enforcement to stop the violations - I’m also in favor of this. BUT…. If we can’t get more law enforcement - we MUST be willing to think through other remedies to lower abuse to give relief to the little law enforcement we do have out there!!!!! 4) remove the easiest magnets & segments where the most egregious abuse is happening where it impacts the resident hunters the least. Example: no NR hunting for coyotes or any animal using xyz weapons or methods. This is ongoing thinking here that is gonna take some time to get right. Any of this, whatever it is, it’s an issue we can refine over time & we are a ways away from any viable solution …. Solution to a growing problem we do have. Critically thinking & open minded here!!!
seven twenty
PMA Member
Carry permits never allowed loaded and uncased long guns while hunting. You could have your handgun but not long guns in the vehicle. The Sheriff actually wrote “not valid for long guns” on our permits. I even got an “uncased” charge while pheasant hunting.
If I’m remembering and understanding correctly, it changed when the state went “constitutional carry”.
Guys here drive around and have for ever with guns on their dash- did all during shotgun for years.
3rd group bites the dust in 30 days. “You can’t catch guys”. Not at all accurate. This last one is probably the biggest poaching, theft & organized raping of our resource I’ve ever heard of. Busted. I can’t give too many details but u guys can stop this crap. I’ll post details when get the ok on this one. Harsher fines, penalties & long term loss of privileges are on the way …. we need to fight for that when the time is right- which again, is coming. This needs to get serious very much like “drunk driving in the 70’s” (slap on wrist) vs drunk driving in 90’s on…. Jail time. Love seeing bad guys go down.
