Appanoose Co? Deep analysis- too much!

[letemgrow]

Appanoose cannot be any different than the counties around it genetics wise IMO. With the dispersal of young bucks all over the place they have to be flowing in and out of all the counties around it. If the farm has the same type habitat and # of mature bucks in the counties around it, then it would be as good a spot as anywhere else.

My farm is MO is 2 miles from the IA line close to the Wayne/Decatur line...I do not have one booner on camera in 6 years, yet they get several up across the line a few miles. There is no difference in soils (all mine are IA soils Nodaway silt, gara and adair loam). The only difference is hunting pressure and age structure, those are the 3 things to really consider, habitat, hunting pressure and age structure. All 3 of those are in place and you will see some giants anywhere in northern MO or southern IA so I would not sweat the county too much.

 

[Hardwood11]

bottom ground

Quote from Sligh1:

Lastly, I personally think the areas in Southern IA that have large tracts of BOTTOM GROUND will grow bigger deer. Just my opinion. Has the nutrition, more water for plants, minerals, etc. Great thoughts above fellas![/QUOTE]


I would agree with you on that. Seems to be a key factor in producing large bucks. It would be interesting to see a study on this.

 

[SaskGuy]

I have no clue what counties you guysare discussing but have enjoyed this read very much. I think age class and genetics are the key factors. I'd bet the grey wood and sandy soils where I am stink in comparison to Iowa's, heck they stink compared to many parts of SK that don't produce as many top end deer as where I reside. Those better soil regions have far more cropland and therefore don't have near the cover resulting in the % of bucks that reach an older age class being miniscule compared to forest/forest fringe areas.

Thanks for the good read, great post guys.

 

[Scott]

On average the real top end deer have come from the quality crop ground where the deer population is low imo. Yes they are flukes but I would bet money every year that the biggest deer in the state will come off ground that is piss pounded by shot gunners not the track in southern iowa under "qdma". Yes I think you can raise big deer but the true giants are a combination of quality ground, genetics, and alot of mother natures roll of the dice.

 

[iowaqdm]

Quote from Sligh1:

Lastly, I personally think the areas in Southern IA that have large tracts of BOTTOM GROUND will grow bigger deer. Just my opinion. Has the nutrition, more water for plants, minerals, etc. Great thoughts above fellas!

Are there large deer along river drainages because those areas have the roughest terrain/best habitat as well as the largest sections or is it because of the soil and water? I say because of the habitat and large sections which tends to increase age structure because it is harder to hunt not the water or soil. letemgrow's post has it right and his name says it all IMO. Age structure is the most important factor in having large deer to harvest. Without age I don't care if a buck has the potential to be 300" he wont ever get there if he is dead at 2.5. I would say that 95% of the bucks in any given county never reach 5.5 let alone 6.5-8.5 so if you hunt in a county or area with a lot of hunting pressure and little management you may never know your areas true potential.

 

[Sligh1]

Are there large deer along river drainages because those areas have the roughest terrain/best habitat as well as the largest sections or is it because of the soil and water? I say because of the habitat and large sections which tends to increase age structure because it is harder to hunt not the water or soil. letemgrow's post has it right and his name says it all IMO. Age structure is the most important factor in having large deer to harvest. Without age I don't care if a buck has the potential to be 300" he wont ever get there if he is dead at 2.5. I would say that 95% of the bucks in any given county never reach 5.5 let alone 6.5-8.5 so if you hunt in a county or area with a lot of hunting pressure and little management you may never know your areas true potential.

Agree. The point where we're splitting hairs with maybe one other difference... If all were equal- section A that had same genetics as section B. Section A had same things planted as Section B. Deer were allowed to get to maturity in Section A the same as Section B.... If Section A had more FLAT area river bottoms VS section B having all ridges without those bottoms- I personally feel section A would have bigger deer, by a substantial amount. Those minerals, vitamins & nutrition in their everyday browse will be far better. (Yes, the flatter areas will also have better CSR allowing more crops in a regular example).
The moisture and water sources on bottom land areas are ALSO a benefit - SIMILAR to folks that claim when it's wet spring and summer- Antler growth will be better- we've probably all head that? The added moisture helps with plant growth, obvious ample supply of water/moisture to deer, more forage/tonnage, etc, etc.
I guess all this means to a guy like me (deer NERD) is I'll always have to have river bottom on any ground I own, I like it, I think it's a huge benefit, I like hunting & farming it (qualifies for all sorts of $ perks! ) and I think it'll beat out a cattle farm any day.

 

[River1]

On average the real top end deer have come from the quality crop ground where the deer population is low imo. Yes they are flukes but I would bet money every year that the biggest deer in the state will come off ground that is piss pounded by shot gunners not the track in southern iowa under "qdma". Yes I think you can raise big deer but the true giants are a combination of quality ground, genetics, and alot of mother natures roll of the dice.

When I read your comment I thought about where I live. That pretty much describes the area around my hometown. Rarely do I see a mature deer because of hunting pressure and poor cover for them to escape that pressure. But, if one makes it to maturity around here .....the ones I've seen are exceptionally big. We have some of the best crop ground in the state just West of town. However, I can count on one hand how many mature deer I've seen around here in the last 10 years.

 

[letemgrow]

I guess all this means to a guy like me (deer NERD) is I'll always have to have river bottom on any ground I own, I like it, I think it's a huge benefit, I like hunting & farming it (qualifies for all sorts of $ perks! ) and I think it'll beat out a cattle farm any day.

No doubt a crop farm will beat out a cattle farm any day of the week, the cattle eat at least some of the desirable browse species that deer would.

Something else to ponder, if there are 30 deer per square mile on two different farms. One has a csr double the other, then the 30 on that farm will be healthier, but what if the other farm only had 15 deer psm....I bet you would be suprised as what it would produce too. There would not be as much quality browse/food on the second farm, but it only has to feed half the deer so they can pick the highest quality browse.

 

[Sligh1]

Good, interesting reading...I'll add this.

I mostly hunted in a couple of areas up until I bought my farm in Davis County about 10 years ago. My ground in Davis County is relatively poor soil, heavy clay, although there is some decent crop ground within a 1/2 mile of me. But for the most part, I have below average soil quality.

Previously, I predominantly hunted a couple of different places in Washington County and also one in Henry County. These areas were very good agricultural land and two of them were along river bottoms too.

Age......Washington/Henry................................Davis
1-1/2 ...fork, 6 or even small 8's...................... Spikes commonly
2-1/2 ...100"ish 8 pointers ..............................60"-80" 5's and 7's
3-1/2 ...130"+ 8's or 10's, rare though...............120" 8's and 9's
4-1/2 ...?? hardly ever saw any :grin: ...................140"ish
5-1/2+ .Seriously, saw one once 180"+..............155"-165"
6-1/2 ..There were more unicorns than..............160"-170"+
...........bucks this old! :grin:

I think I have seen enough to present the chart above with some credibility behind it. For any given age class, I think the deer from the "good soil" counties were 20%-40% bigger antler-wise each year. However, due to hunting pressure and also "escapability" cover being present or not, the age class in the poor quality county is vastly superior.

So I commonly see bigger bucks in Davis County, but I think it takes them an extra year or two to "get there" than some other counties. I think the soil quality is a real factor, but if you have good soil and all of the bucks get whacked before they get to maturity, then you will have good genetics, but unrealized potential.

Daver- by the way- I love your analysus and self-study. I think u r right on with above, believe u r probably very accurate. Well done. Seems like the difference I even see with my farm in VB co VS Davis- except deer on my place with great genetics luckily can get 5+ great chart and I like your analysis!