AR Pistol Hunting Deer

[tannerismyhero]

I have taken out my .40 before as a back up while shotgunning. This year I bought a .50 beowulf ar pistol as a primary. Its big and kicks like a mule. I love it. I contacted the local DNR CO to ask about the sig brace that came on it. I have seen elsewhere that people have used the brace, and I wanted proof that I got the ok if the CO was called on me. Well, they came back and said it was not ok. She came back with "I did some checking on this. According to the law enforcement Bureau Chief, the arm brace would allow the gun to be mounted to the shoulder. Under Iowa Administrative Code chapter 106.7 it would be illegal. " So, moral of the story, watch out if you have one of these. I don't agree with the statement, but not much I can do about it.

 

[seven twenty]

So the Bureau Chief can supercede what the ATF has decided? If it's classified as a pistol and you are shooting an "approved" caliber according to the regs, I wouldn't think they could fight it and win.

 

[tannerismyhero]

Yeah that is what I was thinking too. Iowa isn't supposed to enforce anything superceeding the batf. I am going to do what they say. I am not up to snuff on all the rules and regs to say that doesnt work and why. But with what they say, i want to make sure my brothers and sisters are not going to get in trouble doing what they love to do. It is a sad day when there are so many grey areas we are not sure if what we are doing is okay. I hope someone can say that is bs and why. I will email it back to them.

 

[LYON]

Center-fire handguns .357 cali-
ber or larger, shooting straight wall ammunition
with an expanding-type bullet. Minimum barrel
length for all handguns is 4 inches. No shoulder
stock or long barrel modifications are allowed.

That's what the regs say. I would think as long as you don't have the shoulder mount on it, you should be good to go.

 

[seven twenty]

Center-fire handguns .357 cali-
ber or larger, shooting straight wall ammunition
with an expanding-type bullet. Minimum barrel
length for all handguns is 4 inches. No shoulder
stock or long barrel modifications are allowed.

That's what the regs say. I would think as long as you don't have the shoulder mount on it, you should be good to go.

The ATF has clarified that the Sig brace is not considered a shoulder mount. He really shouldn't have to take it off. I'm guessing that the Bureau Chief is either uneducated on the subject or isn't afraid to lose in court.

 

[revup]

The ATF has clarified that the Sig brace is not considered a shoulder mount. He really shouldn't have to take it off. I'm guessing that the Bureau Chief is either uneducated on the subject or isn't afraid to lose in court.

^^^THIS^^^

 

[LYON]

The ATF has clarified that the Sig brace is not considered a shoulder mount. He really shouldn't have to take it off. I'm guessing that the Bureau Chief is either uneducated on the subject or isn't afraid to lose in court.

I understand that it's not considered a shoulder mount, but it can very easily be used as one which would go against the DNR law. I think the DNR is more worried about how it could be used than what it's actually made for which is understandable.

 

[revup]

Here is the stupidest part about the whole thing.... ballistically speaking.... it's not really faster/flatter than most modern sabot slugs or black powder rifles....
This is just another example of uneducated people making, and interpreting, laws cause they THINK something is worse than what is currently legal.

 

[tannerismyhero]

Its not like you cant just put the buffer tube up to your shoulder anyway. I really wanted to use it as a forearm brace as intended just because it would be fun.

 

[nIAeagle]

Here is the stupidest part about the whole thing.... ballistically speaking.... it's not really faster/flatter than most modern sabot slugs or black powder rifles.... This is just another example of uneducated people making, and interpreting, laws cause they THINK something is worse than what is currently legal.

Why not use a quality sabot slug then? I honestly don't see a problem with them not allowing it. As LYON stated, it sounds like the DNR regulations say no shoulder stock on a centerfire gun. Pretty cut and dry to me.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to hunt with a high power but with this specific situation I'd say the rules are pretty obvious.

 

[GILLESPIE]

The .50 beowulf is listed as a legal round for handgun hunting. I have a 12" beowulf with a sig arm brace. From everything I have gathered, including ATF opinion letters, is that it is legal if used as designed. Last year there was an ATF opinion letter that said shouldering the brace does not change the desing and its intended use of the brace therefore it is NOT illegal to shoulder it. About six months later another ATF opinion leter was written by different ATF employee that says shouldering the brace changes the design of the brace and is therefor it IS illegal. From what i can tell it is legal till the second it touches your shoulder. It seems that if you take it off you can shoot the gun however you like and your in the clear. The laws on hand gun hunting don't specify what hand gun you can or cant use, just the ammo. Your AR pistol is legally a hand gun.

 

[revup]

Why not use a quality sabot slug then? I honestly don't see a problem with them not allowing it. As LYON stated, it sounds like the DNR regulations say no shoulder stock on a centerfire gun. Pretty cut and dry to me.
Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be able to hunt with a high power but with this specific situation I'd say the rules are pretty obvious.

Well, a sig brace is not considered a "shoulder stock" as defined by the ATF.
A .50 Beowulf is not "high power" either.

It really ends up being the principal of the matter.
People making, interpreting, and enforcing laws in a way to make things illegal.....that shouldn't be illegal in the first place......is the PROBLEM.
By the FEDERAL interpretation, a PISTOL in .50 Beowulf with a sig brace is in fact A PISTOL.
.50 Beowulf meets the state requirements for caliber size, so using such weapon to harvest a deer should be legal.
Any half way decent attorney could win this argument in court.

 

[tannerismyhero]

I agree that since my intent was to use correctly anyway, there should be no problem. I had a sneaky feeling this would happen to end up in court if the wrong person (uneducated) turned me in...then the wrong CO (uneducated) wrote me up. The CO that I contacted didn't know. She didn't even contact me back for a couple of weeks till the supervisor was copied. I can't blame them for not knowing all the stuff that is out there. The CO's are way stretched thin, we all know that. Otherwise the d bags that are intentionally breaking the law would have to answer for their crimes
I am in the camp that this is legal. The crappy thing is, I got a response that it wasn't. I don't have the funds to fight it. I don't have the time to fight it. Unfortunately it is a losing battle for me. It sounds like others on here have used one...Just be aware of what they are thinking.

 

[nIAeagle]

I'm not arguing that the gun isn't a pistol as defined by the ATF, I'm just saying that it sounds to me that the DNR considers it a gun with a "shoulder stock" (when fitted with a sig brace) therefore making it illegal to use deer hunting. If it's a DNR regulation then it's a law as it applies to deer hunting and deer hunting only. The gun is still a pistol but the DNR says you can't use for deer hunting.