Are we making progress?

[dbltree]

I've been managing my land with QDM practices for over 10 years now. Like most of you, I try to provide the best in nutrition, cover, harvesting does and letting the small ones walk.
Years ago I would see at least several mature bucks in daylight hours and never ever saw a spike.
Now I see spikes daily and I'm lucky to see one or two mature bucks all season...either by hunting or trail cam.
My property is seperated by nearly 20 miles...but I see the same both places

I see plenty of 2 1/2 year old bucks and one would think that at least a percentage would survive another year or two.
I know we have a serious poaching problem and poachers have advanced their tactics with range finders and night vision equipment. I always find headless bucks...too many...

Not sure about the spikes...too many deer? So many bucks that big mature bucks are breeding fewer does?

Maybe it's just me...obviously their are some good bucks out there but I wonder if all the noteriety of Iowas quality bucks isn't increasing pressure by poachers each year?

Used to be hunters just shot whatever they drove out and called it good...is there to much pressure by more hunters to take a limited number of mature bucks?

Just wondering what you guys think...is the quality of your deer getting better, staying the same or declining?

 

[bjkpharmd]

I have improved habitat and done new plots but have only been at it 5 years. Shot some does but there is a huge amount of ground around me that is leased or posted in some manner, I don't think that much has changed except I have more deer. I don't think that there are many does shot in the immediate area unless it is me or one neighbor and our guests. Between us though, we are just under 200 acres and all the surrounding ground deer filter on and off our property. Still some good bucks, I see them on occasion but then nothing, I think a couple good ones have fell to poaching. I think that the deer that I have are in better shape because of the food and recent mild winters.

 

[Windwalker]

How many acres are you talking about ?I have real problems here they shoot everything and leave it lay and keep doing it. This is the first year I didn't find one shed. Unreal for me. I know of a neighbor that whacked everyone he saw. Gets real old fast. My advice is talk with some neighbors and hope they understand . Wish ya luck

 

[letemwalk]

I have a similar perspective as DBL - have not seen as many quality bucks after 7 years of attempting QDM. Noticed an upturn after a couple of years but recently (last 3 years) there has been a lot more poaching in the area (8 headless bucks found last year within 1.5 mile radius that I know of). Plus, I only have 140 acres (Madison county) and the land adjacent gets pounded pretty hard during the gun seasons. In Appannoose county, the 160 acres of mine is adjacent to ~1,500 acres under QDM and has been since about '97. Definitely a huge uptick in the number of quality bucks the first several years. That, too has leveled off and poaching is a factor but also believe that we've underharvested does. Being an absentte landowner there also means more trespass - even though I have neighbors that try to keep an eye on it - it just happens. So, I guess to answer the original question - I think we have made some progress but definitely feels like a step back in recent years.

 

[Shredder]

It sounds like the county is getting over-run with does as few folks care to harvest the antlerless population. As the antlerless population increases, the less nutrition is theoretically available to all deer. Does not seem to be the case there with the Ag Production and food plots going up all over. My best guess to the situation you are seeing would be the harvest of the top quality bucks leading to lesser genetics breeding the doe population and the poaching problem is just taking out the other mature bucks from the roadway.

My observations from last season, I saw a fair number of mature bucks early then extreemly limited sightings of deer in general until late season. Up til them, I had been practicing the same general management practices as you guys (last 3 years)

May just be coincidence but from what I have seen the last 2 years in VB, the county is relativly dead for traffic until late october thru mid december...IMO the age structure is going to the pits???? JMHO

 

[dbltree]

[ QUOTE ]
It sounds like the county is getting over-run with does as few folks care to harvest the antlerless population. As the antlerless population increases, the less nutrition is theoretically available to all deer. Does not seem to be the case there with the Ag Production and food plots going up all over. My best guess to the situation you are seeing would be the harvest of the top quality bucks leading to lesser genetics breeding the doe population and the poaching problem is just taking out the other mature bucks from the roadway.

My observations from last season, I saw a fair number of mature bucks early then extreemly limited sightings of deer in general until late season. Up til them, I had been practicing the same general management practices as you guys (last 3 years)

May just be coincidence but from what I have seen the last 2 years in VB, the county is relativly dead for traffic until late october thru mid december...IMO the age structure is going to the pits???? JMHO

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree Shredder. I feel the high doe numbers lead to stress and poor genetics. It's no longer a case of the biggest and best breeding the does.

I also feel that a number of factors are leading to increased poaching. The value of those racks is tremendous and attracts "profesional poachers". With less and less land available to hunters, I feel many who have lost access are venting by hunting the land they used to...only perhaps at night?
The new meth laws have created a whole new population of very desperate people. Thefts have increased in rural areas as they struggle to pay for more expensive "Mexican meth" and I have no doubt they are also more then willing to chance the fine if a poached rack means they can get another fix.

I wish I had answers to all these problems. "poacher screens" will help but they take time to grow. Harvesting does...but I'm not willing to turn my place into a "killing field" either. How long is a mature buck going to hang around if I'm whacking does in his bedroom all the time?

Population control and anti-poaching efforts are something that we are all going to have to work on as part of our QDM efforts.

 

[Daver]

I don't feel like I have enough years hunting my place in Davis County to say anything for sure, but...

I will say this though, there are more "serious" archery hunters in this area all the time and IMO there are more guys successfully harvesting mature bucks in the "area" than 10 years ago or so. I'll not discount the possible poaching effect, but there are only so many 4 1/2 year old plus deer walking around out there and if just one or two more guys start taking these guys in "your" section, then I could easily see where the big buck sightings would go down.

I also subscribe to the notion that the does are out of control and it is a dilemma in the sense that if you are a responsible landowner and take to shooting plenty of does while your neighbors do not then you risk "chasing" the bucks over the fence or into a nocturnal mode while you are otherwise whacking does. We shot 8 does, 1 button and 2 bucks on my property last year. I am quite certain though that not all of my "neighbors" had a similar "ratio", if you know what I mean. I also know at least 2 does were found dead on my property from reasons I do not know. So that is roughly a 4 or 5 to 1 doe to buck kill and I still have too many does. I don't think I can kill them fast enough though if others around me do not participate.

 

[dbltree]

I sure would like to see more even control of the does also Dave. If my place is nothing but steaming gut piles...surely a mature buck will find safer "pastures".

I'm sure that as pressure and competition for mature deer increase that people begin to settle for less each year. It takes a lot to end the season without a buck while others are piling them up.
I still think we have the best hunting in the country and we need to just keep hanging in there..hopefully the fruits of our labors will pan out someday.

 

[LoessHillsArcher]

I am a firm believer in QDM and we have had it on our land for going on 5 years now and it is really paying off!! Last season I was able to harvest a buck we had been watching for 3 years..picking up his sheds and taking trail cams pics of him..we let him get to 4.5 yrs old and I took him on Nov. 5th..luck?? maybe but to me we are seeing, getting more pics, and finding bigger sheds..also having a little more intense rut.

We are also having HUGE poaching problems on our land and finding headless bucks all over. I don't know if anyone heard about those North Carolina poachers that they busted last year, I think the DNR called it the "Double XL" or something like that? We had confronted the poachers the night before they were busted and had the DNR on the phone but we had not hard evidence of their wrong doings. It turned out the DNR had a sting going on them for over a week and finally took them down, FINALLY!!

Sorry to drag on but I think the poaching problem here in IA has gotten WAY out of control and I wish the DNR would crack down on it more. I know it is hard with one or two DNR per county but they depend on people like us to help them out.

 

[TimberPig]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't feel like I have enough years hunting my place in Davis County to say anything for sure, but...


I also subscribe to the notion that the does are out of control...
I am quite certain though that not all of my "neighbors" had a similar "ratio", if you know what I mean. I also know at least 2 does were found dead on my property from reasons I do not know.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont live in southern IA but a group of us hunted Davis county for about 5 years during the late antlerless season. That was before there were late antlerless tags available in our own county, now we have no reason to travel down there. We enjoyed the trip but we get alot less complaining from the wives if we stay local.
We killed some does but usually did not limit out, simply because we didnt know the area well enough and by the time we did we were done hunting there. We were usually short on manpower for the large sections as well and most in the group didnt seem interested in trying anything other than drives.

A few things we noticed down there:
There were always alot of dead deer down there, usually in gun range of the road.
There were a LOT more deer than here in central IA, due to the increased cover.
Farmers were always happy to let us hunt, but usually on the condition that we shoot every thing we saw whether we kept it or not, turkeys included (we didnt of course).
I dont ever remember seeing any other groups hunting that late season.
I saw a couple of absolutely huge bucks. I'd love to bow hunt those farms. Tons of classic terrain features.
Y'all have a BUNCH of coyotes!

The family that owned most of the ground we hunted were hunters themselves, but by all accounts were buck hunters only, though not neccesarily trophy hunters. The last report I heard was that they shot around 15 bucks during 1st season shotgun and simply gave them all away, racks included, supposedly all small bucks. Strange management practices for folks who complain about deer populations if you ask me.

Locally, it seems that more guys are passing on smaller deer, or at least that is the popular talk. I still see plenty of dinks get killed when a doe would have served the same purpose. There are plenty of exceptions but the average bow hunter is at least passing the 1&1/2 year olds now. More gun hunters are starting to as well.
Overall I see more mature deer than 10 years ago but that is no doubt due to the fact that I no longer shoot the first basket rack I see, which naturally gives me the extra time to see those larger bucks.

 

[dbltree]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont live in southern IA but a group of us hunted Davis county for about 5 years during the late antlerless season.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be kind of interesting to see how many of those places one could get permission to hunt now? I would say in some ways that those who live in areas with fewer deer, less cover etc. may actually be seeing better QDM progress.
The "land rush" is less prevelant and I suspect, less poaching.
I think many people even today assume that Iowa has 180 class bucks "coming out of the woodwork" but IMO I think even most landowners will find it increasingly difficult to see let alone harvest that class of animal.
Every year some will be taken of course and that alone will be enough to keep us as landowners every vigilant in our efforts to control poaching and other problems that impede our QDM efforts.

 

[Liv4Rut]

I believe QDM in itself hurts alot of people's properties. Sure you can shoot as many does as you want and pass up every buck and never shoot a buck, but what does that do for you? Nothing in my opinion. Mainly the reason, is because most people are not willing to sacrifice their buck tag on a buck that they don't want. All my opinions are based on from properties that I have seen that have been managed. Most of these properties have alot of mature bucks that are in the 140-150 inch range but will never get any bigger. Most people practicing Qdm wouldn't shoot these because they want big deer. The problem is all these 5,6,7,8 year old bucks run off tons of potential shooter bucks. A 140 inch 6 year old 8 pointer wouldn't think twice about running off a 3.5 year old 160 class deer. With that said, I believe alot of the younger deer simply move away to an area with less mature bucks running around. I have noticed that if you drive away from these areas a mile or so you will see much better quality of deer, even if they get hunted heavily. If you think about it, you can have too many bucks on one property. I know it sounds crazy to most, but I have seen it in person. Another instance is, I live by a state park, and I also go drive by a different state park almost every day looking at deer. Both state parks are overun with does, and you occaisionally see a good buck, but if you want to see the 170+ inch deer, you need to drive about a mile away where there is alot less deer. I think state parks are good, because alot of the smaller deer will stay in there until they get old enough to where they will disperse always leaving a good quality of bucks in the general area around a state park. So I guess if I ever own ground, and after 3-4 years and I start noticing regular older deer that aren't that impressive, im gonna start letting others shoot them or wait till the last few days and take them out.