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BH 209 issue

Call Luke at Arrowhead Sporting Goods right here in Iowa <http://www.smokelessmz.com/>. He'll set you up with a smokeless muzzy build with all the long range capability you'll ever need for a lot less than a BadBull. I've only shot mine out to 350 yards but I was VERY impressed with it at that range. Can't wait for nicer weather so I can stretch it out to 500 or better & see what it's really capable of.
 
HorseDoctor said:
Call Luke at Arrowhead Sporting Goods right here in Iowa <http://www.smokelessmz.com/>. He'll set you up with a smokeless muzzy build with all the long range capability you'll ever need for a lot less than a BadBull. I've only shot mine out to 350 yards but I was VERY impressed with it at that range. Can't wait for nicer weather so I can stretch it out to 500 or better & see what it's really capable of.
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Is there any downsides to smokeless? Like, I briefly recall someone saying they are hard to dial in and are finicky. I can't remember. Any truth? Any big "downsides" to them other than the cost? If only downside is COST - I'm very interested!!! Regular guys who aren't "Gear junkies" like me, basics of firearms, are these user friendly guns and easy to dial in? They "SOUND" like a no brainer to me with velocity, trajectory, etc.

BTW - that website had one gun listed and it was sold. So, I was unable to find the price. Like: what's the price of gun, not including scope, ballpark? Are these things almost as simple to use and dial in as regular ML's? If I got one and wanted to do long range, I think I'd buy a premium scope and practice from 50 to 500 so I knew the drops at each of these places and with how flat they shoot, I think I could easily compensate with knowing the ballistics because it's so flat. Just like my old rifle really.
 
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I would be interested in any gun similar to badbull as $5,000 for a badbull is out of the range I want to spend. Thanks for the link. I will check it out.

Badbull are over 3,000 FPS.....that's faster than a .30-06. Stupid capabilities in that gun. My friend killed a doe at 512 yards a few years ago.
 
As already mentioned, BH209 likes a tight fitting bullet. It helps the powder to build the pressure needed to go bang. Also, proper breech plug design is a must, and a good primer like the CCI-M or Federal 209-A.

As for cleaning, the 777 builds the dreaded crud ring, but it is easy to clean. BH209 no crud ring, but cleaning, especially the breech plug, is more difficult. Just my personal experiences.
 
I furnished my own Rem 700ML action for the build but otherwise cost was well under 2K which included heavy Brux barrel, pillar bedded Boyd thumbhole stock, Swinglock sizing die (for custom sizing bullets to shoot sabotless), folding ramrod with Spinjag tip and a couple boxes of bullets to get started. I added a Leupold VX-2 4-12X CDS scope. Sent bullet data & muzzle velocity to Leupold & they cut a turret to match. They also print a chart specific to the load for wind adjustment. Loaded with 70 grain H4895 it spits a 310 gr .458 cal Parker bullet at a bit over 2700 fps. That's 458 Win Mag velocity/energy levels! So far it is consistently sub MOA @ 100 yards. Shot one group at 350 so far. Set dial to 350 & shot one 3 shot group that was just over 2". I'm sure some of that was luck as no matter how good the gun might be, I don't pretend to be that good from the bench, but I was impressed. Anxious for spring so I can get it back the farm with a longer range bench to see how good it really is but so far I am impressed. So far I haven't found it hard to get "dialed in". Custom sizing and loading bare bullet is a little different but I can do it (& I ain't no rocket scientist).
 
LYON said:
Top one of those babies with a Burris eliminator and you have a killer setup!
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Whoa, I like that. Ok, since you mentioned the scope - know the scoop on it. As in.... It says "just feed the scope your ballistics and it'll take care of the rest", whatever.... So, stupid question, can you "feed it" or load ML ballistics (I'm sure you can) and how do you "load" those ballistics into a scope? I'm a scope-retard so just wondering how you load ballistics on that scope or a scope like that? I'm sure it's simple, just wondering.
If it's a "no brainer, that simple" - geesh, a one time buy, that might be the ticket, that does look amazing.
 
For cleaning BH209, do not use water! It's oil based and will make a huge mess if you use water. All I do is run a patch of hoppe's #9 through it and a couple clean dry patches after. That's usually all it needs. No scrub brush. The breech plug I just put a little hoppe's in it while I'm cleaning the barrel and the soak time makes it super easy to clean as well. Pretty easy if you ask me.
 
Smokeless MLs can be built or bought for less then $2,000. You gents talking about your Encores, you already have the gun needed for a good sabot shooting smokeless gun, you just need the barrel and conversion completed. You'll need to go to a bolt gun and sabotless if you want 3,000 fps 500 yard capabable, but you can easily get the Encore, and other guns converted and shooting just shy of 3,000 fps sabotted loads, and for sure capable of 300 yard shots.
 
Sligh1 said:
Whoa, I like that. Ok, since you mentioned the scope - know the scoop on it. As in.... It says "just feed the scope your ballistics and it'll take care of the rest", whatever.... So, stupid question, can you "feed it" or load ML ballistics (I'm sure you can) and how do you "load" those ballistics into a scope? I'm a scope-retard so just wondering how you load ballistics on that scope or a scope like that? I'm sure it's simple, just wondering.
If it's a "no brainer, that simple" - geesh, a one time buy, that might be the ticket, that does look amazing.
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To be honest I don't know everything about them. A buddy of mine has it on his savage smokeless (crappy gun by the way) and it is incredible! I believe the initial setup required shooting at a few distances and calibrating the scope based on impact point, but I'm not entirely sure. There may be a couple ways to do it. I know they also ran their loads through a chronograph so maybe they were using velocity and bullet info to sight the scopes.
 
LYON said:
For cleaning BH209, do not use water! It's oil based and will make a huge mess if you use water. All I do is run a patch of hoppe's #9 through it and a couple clean dry patches after. That's usually all it needs. No scrub brush. The breech plug I just put a little hoppe's in it while I'm cleaning the barrel and the soak time makes it super easy to clean as well. Pretty easy if you ask me.
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Agree, don't use water on BH209. Cleaning the barrel with hoppes worked fine. The breech plug it was soak and scrub and soak and scrub and soak and scrub. Sort of like a thin layer of tar that did not want to come off.

Back to the water. Doesn't get much easier than hot water when using 777. Good option, better than BH209, but not as good as shooting and cleaning smokeless.
 
Here is one I just had built and should have it this week. It will reach out to 600 yards, along with the 45 cal SML shooting sabotless.
http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/18364/phoenix-range

http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/18417/phoenix-range
 
150 Class said:
Agree, don't use water on BH209. Cleaning the barrel with hoppes worked fine. The breech plug it was soak and scrub and soak and scrub and soak and scrub. Sort of like a thin layer of tar that did not want to come off.
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I switched to using Butch's Bore Shine this past season for my BH209, and I like it WAY more than Hoppes. It cleans up the breech plug much easier, and gets the barrel cleaner as well.

Caution though, the stuff is potent!
 
I looked on Traditions website and found nothing about a BH209 specific BP.

150 Class said:
As already mentioned, BH209 likes a tight fitting bullet. It helps the powder to build the pressure needed to go bang.
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How tight should a Saboted bullet be? I did not feel that I could got one started without smashing the ballistic tip.

Anyone with a CVA BP have the ability to take measurements and make a mechanical drawing? I can shade tree bore mine out, if the machinist I know are not willing to put it on a CNC machine.
 
The traditions accelerator breech plug says it works well with blackhorn 209. However if it isn't specifically made for BH 209 then I wouldn't count on it. Look at BH's website. Click the technical header and then ignition guidelines. Minimum flash hole diameter should be 0.03" - 0.035". When we started shooting BH in our older knights we actually bought some 0.035" bits and drilled out the breech plug. Never had an issue. The amount of metal that was drilled out was so marginal you barely knew it went through anything. Personally that would be the only modification I would make to a breach plug, doing more than that is asking for trouble.
 
Hopefully these pictures show up. You can see the obvious difference between the original CVA breech plug and the blackhorn breech plug. The large hole get that powder a lot closer to the primer so the spark doesn't have to go nearly as far.


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Forestryguy said:
How tight should a Saboted bullet be? I did not feel that I could got one started without smashing the ballistic tip.
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Not that tight. Just a good tight fit that takes a bit of a push, and seat it down with a solid push on the powder charge. Let's just say a loose fit might not cause an ignition issue, but it could contribute to it.
 
cvadave said:
Here is one I just had built and should have it this week. It will reach out to 600 yards, along with the 45 cal SML shooting sabotless.
http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/18364/phoenix-range

http://dougsmessageboards.proboards.com/thread/18417/phoenix-range
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...tell me more. Who built? Approximate cost? What powder you going with? That gun certainly looks AWESOME.
 
Something that helps if you use blackthorn is to run 2 or 3 dry patches down the barrel before using any wet patches. Dry patches will remove just about all the black residue and take less solvent to clean the barrel. I preferr using solvent versus having to go inside and get a bucket of hot soapy water, head back to the garage to clean my ml. I'm almost done cleaning in the time it use to take getting the water and less of a mess.
 
Here is the Web site of who built it.
http://www.cmcfirearms.com/ Cole is his name, Carlos from Ed's gun shop is a friend that set it up, and is very good at working with you on regular ML and the SML,
Powder out of the 416, will be IMR 4350,
PM me for more info.
 
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