dbltree
Super Moderator
Just reply to a relevant thread...such as in the NWSG thread in this case.
I have not planted Quail buffers via a program but for certain you want NWSG buffers.
If pheasants are your main concern then mixed tall grasses are probably best but if quail are your goal then Little Bluestem and Sideoats Grama will be much better for the little brown bombers!
For larger areas, having blocks of alfalfa next to blocks of switchgrass for instance are great for pheasants but IMO coolseason grasses are a waste of what could be valuable habitat...
letemgrow
PMA Member
but IMO coolseason grasses are a waste of what could be valuable habitat...
I would have to agree, cool season grasses are not going to do much for pheasants or quail. Plant some prairie dropseed, little bluestem, side oats, partridge pea, purple prairie clover, desmodiums and remember that foxtail, common ragweed and giant ragweed are your friends for quail or pheasants and they are free!!! :way:
When I checked into them a few years ago I was told by the FSA that if you enrolled in the upland bird buffer then you couldn't do any other CRP practices inside of that buffer. Meaning that if you did a 150' foot buffer all the way around a field that was 240 acres and that used up 30 acres. The remaining 210 acres inside of that practice wasn't eligible for any other CRP practices and had to remain in production or hay until the upland bird buffer contract had expired. They also told me I couldn't drive on it or mow to help establish shrubs. I will tell you that every NRCS office seems to interpret the rules differently and that you should check with your office. If they say you can plant shrubs, drive, mow what ever on your CRP contract then make sure they put it down in writing before you sign up. I didn't sign up for the upland bird buffer. I felt that I would rather do a general sign up someday. They haven't had any general sign ups that I know of in at least the last five years only extensions of existing general sign ups. The biggest problem with CRP programs is some of the dumb restrictions they put on the various practices. For example I have some bottom ground that would qualify for wetland restoration. The practice was to allow 3 acres of upland ground for every 1 acre of hydric soil (bottom). So I envisioned digging a small slough 3-5 acres with about 35 acres of NWSG around and uphill from it. I thought to make it perfect I would have about 10 acres of shrub plantings scattered in several locations (1-2 acres each) to provide some woody habitat for winter protection of upland birds, deer and turkey. So a total of about 50 acres in the CRP contract. I would then have the remaining tillable around the project in row crop which will provide the needed food sources. Sounds good right? Well, I had the NRCS look at the site and they said it would qualify for wetlands but I can't plant any shrubs/woody habitat because of restrictions in the wetlands contract. I said that's fine then I wont sign up for the wetlands CRP. I plan to do my various tree and schrub plantings as time and money allow me. I will make the wetland myself and will farm around the habitat improvemets I have made. Eventually if they have a general CRP sign up I may put the tillable portion around those improvemets into NWSG depending on the restrictions at the time the sign up is offered. I would make sure you read and ask lots of questions before signing any CRP contract. Most of the programs I have looked into had more negatives than positives. Therefore, I have done most of my habitat improvements on my own with no assistance from the government. That way I can develop the land how I want, thus providing the wildlife with the most diverse habitat possible. Which I feel will allow my kids to have the best hunting opportunities for various species in the future. The best part is I don't have the government telling me how I have to manage my land. If I want to mow something or drive on it I don't have to request in writing permission from the FSA. The negative part is I don't get the CRP payments for my habitat improvements. The increased wildlife and changing landscape is payment enough for me. Again, all that I do is for my kids and someday their kids. Thus not recieving a CRP payment hasn't stopped me from putting in 40' foot strips of NWSG on field edges, both sides of interior fences, above and below terraces as well as planting shrubs along the fences and terraces at my own costs and without payments. The main thing with a specialized CRP practice is if the practice does what you want and you can live with the restrictions then sign up, otherwise I would just do pockets of trees/schrub habitat and farm around them. If they have a general sign up then you can put the remaining tillable into the general sign up when the time comes. That is if you can live with the restriction they have on the general sign up.
Hardwood11
It is going to be a good fall!
CRP bird buffers
It it too bad that the NRCS/FSA Office is not given some flexibility in allowing landowners to come up with a plan for wildlife like Iowaqdma did. With all of the CRP contracts being converted to crop, we need to allow as many acres in as possible without stupid restrictions. I looked in buying a farm in ND, had the whole thing in the CRP program of some sort, buffers, wetlands, windbreaks. It would have been a wildlife paradise, and I had previously done every practice in MN. For whatever reason, it didn't qualify in ND, so they missed out on all those acres. Some day we will have very few acres in CRP at this pace, they need to work with the landowners!
It it too bad that the NRCS/FSA Office is not given some flexibility in allowing landowners to come up with a plan for wildlife like Iowaqdma did. With all of the CRP contracts being converted to crop, we need to allow as many acres in as possible without stupid restrictions. I looked in buying a farm in ND, had the whole thing in the CRP program of some sort, buffers, wetlands, windbreaks. It would have been a wildlife paradise, and I had previously done every practice in MN. For whatever reason, it didn't qualify in ND, so they missed out on all those acres. Some day we will have very few acres in CRP at this pace, they need to work with the landowners!
ajadams
PMA Member
We have some in the quail program on my dads farm, and there is also some general crp. The stuff in the quail program had to be continuous, you couldn't have a patch here and there. The payment on it was much better than the general crp, but you are not supposed to drive on it so we made our strips a little wider so we have a place to drive. They said we could mow it the first few years to get it started but than leave it alone. I think we put in some cp33 and cp25 mixes in them but I have some areas that are just switch and some that are alfalfa and red clover. They don't stand there and watch what you put in so you can kind of do what you want as long as something grows, you just won't get paid back for the other seeds. Good luck Aj
dbltree
Super Moderator
Exactly...lot of things you can do and not a soul will ever check on any of it.
The reason they say "don't drive on it" is because farmers want to use the buffer as a turn lane or headland and of course turning on the native grasses with huge equipment flattens it.
No point in paying someone to leave protective nesting and winter habitat and then crush it flat each spring and fall.
iowaqdm made some good points however, do your homework before singing up for anything so you know where you stand. If you question some things, don't be afraid to check with another NRCS office for another opinion so you are in a position to challenge what was said.
They are not "the law" only advisors capable of unknowingly giving out incorrect or misinformation so be your own best advocate...
Lot of reading in this link but you can see that Iowa's Consevation Districts work to may some policy changes so things can do change over time.
2010 Policy Statement
Whole host of continuous CRP programs that allow for a number of different possiblities to achieve the same goal.
Continuous CRP
Check the Conservation Cost Share thread in Dbltree's corner for more help and ideas as well...
goatman
I hunt days ending in Y
Thanks to all. Where it would be going isn't a problem as far as no driving on it. And I don't want anybody driving on prairie grass anyway. They did tell me that. I would agree that cool season grasses are very poor habitat. I'm really don't care if it helps the quail or not I see it as a better option for all things versus cool season. No mowing is fine also.