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Blackhorn 209 vs. Triple 7

Talked to Thompson Center the other day and they said I should have no problem with the BH209 in my gun, then today I just got an email from Blackhorn stating that they cannot recommend it for my gun since its not what they consider a sealed ignition system.

Im not exactly sure what that means, but Im guessing its because the primer is exposed, rather than being sealed off like on the newer guns with hammers..

Kinda a bummer, since I was really looking forward to shooting the stuff. I will make another call to Thompson Center tomorrow and see what they have to say about it..although Im thinking I should just take Blackhorn's word for it.

Might have to start shopping for a new gun..There should be some killer deals coming up after the season :D
 
cornfedkiller said:
Perfect..Thanks for the help!

I have been trying to call Blackhorn and cannot get an answer, and I emailed them a couple days ago too and havent heard anything back from them..kinda ticks me off :mad:

Anyways, Im not sure if my muzzleloader is a magnum load muzzleloader or not..What does that mean/how do I find that out?? I was planning on staying under 100gr by volume anyways (depending on what works best with my bullets), but it sounds like some of the breech plugs are not compatible because the flash chamber isnt big enough or something (or is that what the difference is between the magnum and non-magnum ones is?). The breech plug on my BDXR is a two piece thing (it was about the time everything was switching over from no.11 to 209s), and you can switch out the one piece depending on what you want to burn, so Im not sure if thats going to work or not.. I wish blackhorn would answer the phone..

I'll maybe give thompson center a call, but Im not sure how much they will know about it??
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Cornfedkiller,

I did a little bit of research on your current muzzleloader it is a magnum muzzleloader. Being a magnum muzzleloader just means that it can accept a magnum charge of 150 grains. My brother-in-law also shoots a Black Diamond and has used Blackhorn 209 in this gun. However, he used a magnum load of BH209 and well,he wrecked his gun. If you want to give it a try though you definitely want to use the 209 primer ignition system and a load no higher than 100 grains by volume. As for primers, BH209 needs a hotter burning primer in order to ignite it properly. We use CCI 209 Shotgun Primers in our muzzleloaders. To be on the safe side though, if you can find a newer model muzzleloader you will be good to go. If you have any other questions let me know.
 
I would like to improve the accuracy of my Encore Endeavor 50 cal. I haven't been impressed by my groups at 100 yards. I would say my groups are around 4". I have been running a TC cleaning patch then a dry patch between shots. I am shooting 3 pyrodex pellets (150 gr) with 250 grain TC Shockwave. I have the a Nikon BDC 250 scope. My friend shoots a Knight long range hunter with a 12 power Leupold scope with 120 grains of 777 with 250gr red hot sabot and shoots .75" groups at 100 and sub 2" groups at 200. Would switching to BH209 and red hot sabots help? Does anyone shoot BH209 in their Encore Endeveavor? What about misfire with the BH209 in the Encore Endeavors? Any suggestions?
 
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iowaqdm said:
I would like to improve the accuracy of my Encore Endeavor 50 cal. I haven't been impressed by my groups at 100 yards. I would say my groups are around 4". I have been running a TC cleaning patch then a dry patch between shots. I am shooting 3 pyrodex pellets (150 gr) with 250 grain TC Shockwave. I have the a Nikon BDC 250 scope. My friend shoots a Knight long range hunter with a 12 power Leupold scope with 120 grains of 777 with 250gr red hot sabot and shoots .75" groups at 100 and sub 2" groups at 200. Would switching to BH209 and red hot sabots help? Does anyone shoot BH209 in their Encore Endeveavor? What about misfire with the BH209 in the Encore Endeavors? Any suggestions?
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The first thing I would do is back off the powder charge. Just for kicks try 100 grains and shoot 3 shots and see where they hit. Don't adjust your sights, just aim for the dot and shoot three times and see what the group looks like. If it is better, the 150 grain charge is too much for that bullet combo.

If that don't help, it is most likely not a powder issue. I would then try different bullets. The barnes TMZ and Precision Rifle Dead Centers are good ones. Keep in mind the Hornady SST is the same thing as the shockwave. Shoot some of those with 100 grains and see how they shoot. If good, bump up the powder charge.

With my old gun my groups were about the same with BH209 and 777. What I like about the BH209 is A LOT less smoke and seems to burn cleaner. I do not believe it is easier to clean up though. I did just buy the montana extreme stuff specifically for BH209 so we will see how that goes.

A 4 inch group at 100 yards with a muzzleloader tells me the bullet / powder combo isn't right or you got a bad rest. Should be fairly easy one to figure out.
 
Thanks for the advice. I'll try backing the powder down tomorrow. My buddy said I could try his red hot bullets and 777 as well. I gotta believe the gun will shoot better than it has been. The rest was good and conditions were perfect to shoot that day. I shot a .5" 5 shot group with my AR off the same rest right after shooting my muzzleloader. To say I was disappointed with the TC's performance would be an understatement! I really appreciate your advice and will post the results!
 
Follow what Liv said.

I shoot 120 gr. in my Endeavor with the Shockwaves and CCI Primers with no problem.

I Love the BH209. You can see a considerable difference in the cleanup from the
Triple 7 and won't go back anytime soon.

Good luck. :way:
 
Well shot my TC tonight with 125 gr of 777 with the 250 gr shockwave and it shot much better. I had two shots in the bullseye about .25 inch apart and one that was about 2 inches from the center of the bullseye at 100 yards. The 125 gr of 777 had the exact same zero as 150 gr of pyrodex which was nice because I didn't have to adjust the scope at all. I'm gonna try 125 gr of 777 with some 250 gr red hot bullets this weekend to see if that will group even better. After late muzzy I'm gonna do some more experimenting with bullets and powders (including BH209) to determine the best combo. Thanks for the advice.
 
iowaqdm said:
...After late muzzy I'm gonna do some more experimenting with bullets and powders (including BH209) to determine the best combo. Thanks for the advice.
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Great Idea! I highly recommend this to anyone with a muzzleloader. IMO, muzzleloaders are just like people, they all have their own personality! :way:
 
I am new to muzzleloading, started with triple 7 and will never use it again after trying BH. Yes, the biggest and only thing that I don't like is cleaning the breach plug, it takes a little effort, but I can still clean the weapon to look like new in less time than I could with triple 7. Three patches and the barrel is spotless using the Blackhorn solvent. Any residue left by triple 7 will cause rust almost overnight it seemed, with BH my TC Omega shoots best with 2 or 3 down the barrel, so that is the way I leave it duing season and no rust at all anywhere. I use winchester primers and never have had a hang fire in 60 or shots this year. I use just under 100 grains (250gr w/TC blk sabots) to have the reticle on my Cabelas powder horn scope (4-12X) shoot where the marks are intended. I have a pile of triple 7 loose and pellets plus a bunch of the water soluble cleaners I will sell cheap.
 
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