Blast from the past.

[Daver]

IT IS THAT BAD.
That poster makes me a bit sad cause I live this & see what has happened in every single one of our 100 counties. Was telling some folks anecdotally … I probably chatted, texted, saw, got feedback from maybe 1000-1500 guys around the state if I had to take a wild guess. Weekend warrior public & casual guys… to the most serious with the most elite land I can think of… Say it’s “1,500 guys”… LITERALLY…. 1 guy/fam I know had an “amazing year”…. 2 bombers on an extremely large farm. After 2 years of struggling.
Literally that’s it & LITERALLY the 1,499 others…. every sentiment is: “it’s down. What the heck is going on. Worst season I’ve ever seen. Not even a buck I know of i want to hunt. I will not be shooting a deer this year” or some variety like that. That’s every area of this state.
I remember a DNR interview - was either the head of DNR or the Deer Biologist for state…. Listened to that interview probably 20 years ago on Iowas hunting. My memory on stuff like that is like a lock box. He was talking about how special iowa was. How we are the best managed state in the country & how proud we were of that. Talked about how we had the best age class & best deer in country, etc. He said something that was interesting & I still remember it to this day…. Something like this….. “I spend time on deer surveys, population & buck age/quality in everyone of our 100 counties. I can say with certainty there’s multiple 200” bucks in every single one of our 100 counties. That’s amazing & it shows how well iowa is managed & how great our system works”. & he was spot on. I thought of that back then…. When I traveled for my medical job to every area in this state. Areas with “almost nothing” for habitat & they still had mammoths.
I can see in my mind (not a Rosie or skewed view- a true reality) going around Jefferson & van buren counties on “average farms” & seeing COUNTLESS 170-230” deer. Like- “hey, driving around, glassing beans, hunting, etc” bet I ran across 15-25 a year on your average run of the mill farms. Had a 2 200” bucks on my 80 acres in 2 years. Typical just over 200” & a NT 230’s. I remember so many giants posted on this site. Guys Might be shy about posting trail cams but not nearly as secret on bucks they get. We are 1000000% way way down. Hurting. Dang it I hope for the sake of every one of our 165,000 deer hunters - we recover & get back to greatness. Ain’t gonna happen without some effort & changes.

Another FWIW anecdote...I just returned home from watching the Hawks play the Illini in men's BB at CHA. I overheard 3 guys talking deer hunting in the row behind me. Their words would fit right in this thread..."We used to have big bucks...". "It sucked this year..." erc.

At least one of them was referring to the Wapello, IA, area. An area that I have no personal insight into, FWIW. I know not every area sucks right now, but it sure sounds like A LOT of them do.

 

[jkratz5]

If guys want to share the pics I would certainly make the posters again, I think they ran about $20 back then. Based on what is shared I am guessing not to many would sign up

 

[Muskrat24]

IT IS THAT BAD.
That poster makes me a bit sad cause I live this & see what has happened in every single one of our 100 counties. Was telling some folks anecdotally … I probably chatted, texted, saw, got feedback from maybe 1000-1500 guys around the state if I had to take a wild guess. This past season. Weekend warrior public & casual guys… to the most serious with the most elite land I can think of… Say it’s “1,500 guys”… LITERALLY…. 1 guy/fam I know had an “amazing year”…. 2 bombers on an extremely large farm. After 2 years of struggling.
Literally that’s it & LITERALLY the 1,499 others…. every sentiment is: “it’s down. What the heck is going on. Worst season I’ve ever seen. Not even a buck I know of i want to hunt. I will not be shooting a deer this year” or some variety like that. That’s every area of this state.
I remember a DNR interview - was either the head of DNR or the Deer Biologist for state…. Listened to that interview probably 20 years ago on Iowas hunting. My memory on stuff like that is like a lock box. He was talking about how special iowa was. How we are the best managed state in the country & how proud we were of that. Talked about how we had the best age class & best deer in country, etc. He said something that was interesting & I still remember it to this day…. Something like this….. “I spend time on deer surveys, population & buck age/quality in everyone of our 100 counties. I can say with certainty there’s multiple 200” bucks in every single one of our 100 counties. That’s amazing & it shows how well iowa is managed & how great our system works”. & he was spot on. I thought of that back then…. When I traveled for my medical job to every area in this state. Areas with “almost nothing” for habitat & they still had mammoths.
I can see in my mind (not a Rosie or skewed view- a true reality) going around Jefferson & van buren counties on “average farms” & seeing COUNTLESS 170-230” deer. Like- “hey, driving around, glassing beans, hunting, etc” bet I ran across 15-25 a year on your average run of the mill farms. Had a 2 200” bucks on my 80 acres in 2 years. Typical just over 200” & a NT 230’s. I remember so many giants posted on this site. Guys Might be shy about posting trail cams but not nearly as secret on bucks they get. We are 1000000% way way down. Hurting. Dang it I hope for the sake of every one of our 165,000 deer hunters - we recover & get back to greatness. Ain’t gonna happen without some effort & changes.

Where did the train run off the track? I think they quit managing and got comfortable. No doubt legislation opened the door for technology but there are a lot of those counties that have little to no deer now so no way of producing big bucks and going to one buck won’t have a short term impact because there are no deer. I think a lot of the problem came from the first major widespread EHD outbreak in 2012. The DNR has not been able to nor tried to respond to the 2012 significant population decline. POOR population management by DNR. Should be obvious that harvest has not declined with population meaning we are more effective so tags should be reduced. Increase population IF they (DNR) has any interest to getting back to good ole days.

 

[203ntyp]

Yep, the good ole days for sure. Lots of old-timers and memories!

 

[Daver]

Where did the train run off the track? I think they quit managing and got comfortable. No doubt legislation opened the door for technology but there are a lot of those counties that have little to no deer now so no way of producing big bucks and going to one buck won’t have a short term impact because there are no deer. I think a lot of the problem came from the first major widespread EHD outbreak in 2012. The DNR has not been able to nor tried to respond to the 2012 significant population decline. POOR population management by DNR. Should be obvious that harvest has not declined with population meaning we are more effective so tags should be reduced. Increase population IF they (DNR) has any interest to getting back to good ole days.

I think this is a good, accurate summation, FWIW. ^^ Just a tangent from my perspective after reading and digesting so many of the related thoughts expressed here, particularly in the last month or so...

While I definitely heard, and read, about low population concerns from others over the past, say, 5-8 years...that wasn't the reality that we were experiencing at our place in that timeframe. Things were still pretty dang good for us, even while others were suffering. Looking back...the number of old bucks was dropping some from where things were say, 10+ years ago, but only by a little and there were still multiple prospects each year AND younger up and comers. Also, there were still PLENTY of does...too many even. So, some signs of slippage were there, but only faintly, and I still maintain that we "needed" to increase the doe harvest, as late as 2023.

Then, in August of 2023, we experienced our first widespread EHD breakout and let's just say that "everything changed"...and not for the good. I know that this wave of EHD was fairly widespread too, extending into, at least, neighboring counties. AFAIK, tag availability in my area remains unchanged at this time. Harrumph. (If it has been reduced, then it hasn't been by much and it is still WAY TOO HIGH, at least IMO.)

Under the heading of "what can we do"...if there is a bona fide EHD wipeout...then tag availability needs to be dropped NLT the following season. I feel like there are many things at play right now, but considering everything...I think our biggest collective problem is sheer numbers, as in, we have a fraction of the deer now that we did 3, 5, 10+ years ago. With due respect to the devotees to the One Buck Limit (OBL) guys...that change, particularly in isolation, will NEVER solve the main problem that we have now. FWIW, no one has convinced me yet the OBL is what boosted say, Indiana, let alone be the solution for what ails us here. Yes, it could help, but it will never lead us back to where we once were, not even close.

If we are going to do ONE THING...we should find a way to combat and/or react to EHD outbreaks. Nothing comes close to EHD in terms of explaining our "missing" deer.

 

[HWC]

What's odd is there are still groups seeing lots of deer. We saw decent groups of deer 2nd season shotgun. But a drive that used to have 30 plus deer had 20 ish. So down some. A guy that stopped by said his group shot over 40 deer 1st season. Another group I know shot over 20. Both in Southern Iowa. This weekend I spoke with a guy who hunts near Waverly (I believe) shot close to 30 deer. Said they had to keep grabbing more tags. So some areas are still flush with deer for the time being.

The vast majority will think the population is great as long as the DNR allows this many tags available. They trust the DNR to do right by the populations. This may not be popular, but I think the DNR is very untrustworthy .They were still emailing me up until this last season to get out and get more deer. THey are still pushing to test animals for CWD and farmers near me eat it up as a reason to shoot everything that moves. Multiple groups 2nd season I spoke with still go by brown it's down.

 

[Windwalker]

IT IS THAT BAD.
That poster makes me a bit sad cause I live this & see what has happened in every single one of our 100 counties. Was telling some folks anecdotally … I probably chatted, texted, saw, got feedback from maybe 1000-1500 guys around the state if I had to take a wild guess. This past season. Weekend warrior public & casual guys… to the most serious with the most elite land I can think of… Say it’s “1,500 guys”… LITERALLY…. 1 guy/fam I know had an “amazing year”…. 2 bombers on an extremely large farm. After 2 years of struggling.
Literally that’s it & LITERALLY the 1,499 others…. every sentiment is: “it’s down. What the heck is going on. Worst season I’ve ever seen. Not even a buck I know of i want to hunt. I will not be shooting a deer this year” or some variety like that. That’s every area of this state.
I remember a DNR interview - was either the head of DNR or the Deer Biologist for state…. Listened to that interview probably 20 years ago on Iowas hunting. My memory on stuff like that is like a lock box. He was talking about how special iowa was. How we are the best managed state in the country & how proud we were of that. Talked about how we had the best age class & best deer in country, etc. He said something that was interesting & I still remember it to this day…. Something like this….. “I spend time on deer surveys, population & buck age/quality in everyone of our 100 counties. I can say with certainty there’s multiple 200” bucks in every single one of our 100 counties. That’s amazing & it shows how well iowa is managed & how great our system works”. & he was spot on. I thought of that back then…. When I traveled for my medical job to every area in this state. Areas with “almost nothing” for habitat & they still had mammoths.
I can see in my mind (not a Rosie or skewed view- a true reality) going around Jefferson & van buren counties on “average farms” & seeing COUNTLESS 170-230” deer. Like- “hey, driving around, glassing beans, hunting, etc” bet I ran across 15-25 a year on your average run of the mill farms. Had a 2 200” bucks on my 80 acres in 2 years. Typical just over 200” & a NT 230’s. I remember so many giants posted on this site. Guys Might be shy about posting trail cams but not nearly as secret on bucks they get. We are 1000000% way way down. Hurting. Dang it I hope for the sake of every one of our 165,000 deer hunters - we recover & get back to greatness. Ain’t gonna happen without some effort & changes.

Like our pheasants now Iowas giant bucks. Seasons need to be changed back.

 

[Muskrat24]

What's odd is there are still groups seeing lots of deer. We saw decent groups of deer 2nd season shotgun. But a drive that used to have 30 plus deer had 20 ish. So down some. A guy that stopped by said his group shot over 40 deer 1st season. Another group I know shot over 20. Both in Southern Iowa. This weekend I spoke with a guy who hunts near Waverly (I believe) shot close to 30 deer. Said they had to keep grabbing more tags. So some areas are still flush with deer for the time being.

The vast majority will think the population is great as long as the DNR allows this many tags available. They trust the DNR to do right by the populations. This may not be popular, but I think the DNR is very untrustworthy .They were still emailing me up until this last season to get out and get more deer. THey are still pushing to test animals for CWD and farmers near me eat it up as a reason to shoot everything that moves. Multiple groups 2nd season I spoke with still go by brown it's down.

What you stated is 100% the issue with population. Deer are not extinct in Iowa therefore hunters are still able to kill them. We can see by the harvest data that our ability to kill has stayed relatively static even with a third less deer. Meaning people can and will fill tags if tags are available. Perception of a thriving deer herd is easy to mistake when hunters continue to fill their tags. It’s also why we see higher than expected hunter satisfaction. Your comment about used to see 30 deer and now only see 20 is right on par with statewide population changes. I see the same thing. Fields where deer used winter used to have 100+ in them this time of year now have 30.
Glad yet sad to hear about the DNR emails suggesting to get out and hunt deer even at the end of the season because it makes my case even that much stronger. DNR doesn’t put their actions with their words that they know there is a problem as some have suggested. Until I see otherwise DNR is perfectly comfortable with the current deer herd and if there are DNR employees telling you otherwise tell them to do something about it. I don’t think anyone that has commented here would say that there are 0 deer but yet fewer and less high scoring deer. The majority of hunters just want to kill something OR fill the freezer (I 100% respect the fill the freezer group) so those groups can be successful by shooting younger bucks and does and therefore are satisfied.
I like numbers and a good example of questionable interpretation or self fulfilling interpretation is the spotlight survey data. Drive more miles and see more deer so population is rebounding, really?