BOW GUYS HELP- 80 lbs bows & busting thru shoulders???...

[Central Iowa]

Scenario #2 sounds very plausible. Neither lung may have been damaged, chest wall intact, pleura intact, live deer with a tracheotomy. If this is analogous to humans with a temporary tracheotomy the tracheal wound closes off in a matter of hours.

Posting same time as Travis. Of course he was there and saw the deer but sitting here thinking about it I wonder if this doesn't happen a lot. I wonder if some of the "hit the brisket" shots are actually this.

Ok I did learn a new vocabulary word this morning Thanks Bonker.
(analogous) comparable in certain respects, typically in a way that makes clearer the nature of the things compared.

Seriously though the arrow was to far back for scenario #2. Unless my viewing angle, excitement interpreted the entry differently. I remember thinking the only way I couldn't get penetration was from the shoulder mass coming back as he started running after the doe just as the arrow was entering him. If #1 is something hat can happen then that's it.

 

[Sligh1]

I just like hearing a deer story with the words "sand trap" and "greens keeper" in it! Where are you hunting, Deer Park Fun land mini golf course?!?!? Wait, were you actually hunting Gophers on the golf course? Caddeshack kinda stuff I bet.

 

[Central Iowa]

I just like hearing a deer story with the words "sand trap" and "greens keeper" in it! Where are you hunting, Deer Park Fun land mini golf course?!?!? Wait, were you actually hunting Gophers on the golf course? Caddeshack kinda stuff I bet.

Yep the good old days before urban sprawl.......Always a joy on the edge of urban areas I have stories that could go on and on. Some of the most rewarding and frustrating hunts of my life. I had one tree stand I swore I would get nailed by golf balls in sometime.

 

[Daver]

I just like hearing a deer story with the words "sand trap" and "greens keeper" in it! Where are you hunting, Deer Park Fun land mini golf course?!?!? Wait, were you actually hunting Gophers on the golf course? Caddeshack kinda stuff I bet.

The problem with hunting near golf courses is that you have to yell, "FOREkhorn", every time you see a young buck!

I just flew in from LA and boy are my arms tired! I'm here all week.

 

[Sligh1]

Whoa, I just tested arrows for penetration and speed.
Full Metal Jacket
Carbon Express Maxima Red
Easton ACC
(my old gold tip pro hunter)
Easton Injection deep 6
Got all same sizes from buddy who had a ton, ran through a chronograph I have just to compare. Did several types of penetration test from ballistic gel, pressed meat, foam, etc.....
Oh my gosh, no contest test over test over test.... Injection blew the rest away. I mean toasted. They were running about 7-9 fps slower than maybe some others but penetration was disgustingly, consistently better, every single time, by a lot. Impressed. I'm done on arrow picking, got that solved for sure. Downside, I have less to pick from for broadheads but I don't care. *These were the heaviest Injections I think - 330's. But, the other ones were spinned for same set-up so the heavier ones too.

 

[tslc]

I am not an expert but I think those micro shaft arrows when shot into a target have less drag because of the total surface area of the shaft. When shooting an animal the blood lubricates the arrow thus offsetting some of the arrow friction on bigger arrows.

 

[MN Slick]

There is some interesting information and testing posted on Archery Talk about a broadhead called the Strickland Helix. If penetration is what you want it sounds like the ticket. I'm thinking about trying them this year.

 

[Sligh1]

Ok guys, still looking at a different bow. My wife got me a "gift bow" I do love. I suppose in a horrible situation, I could have 2 bows, we'll see.
FOR NOW, THE MATH..... My bow is shooting the combo I'm 99% sure I'll go with. Injexion FMJ arrows, 11 GPI which is some of the heaviest a guy can find or close. The arrow with tip weighs in at 485 grains - pretty heavy, really heavy actually and that's pretty fast for me with that kinda weight. I know there's faster with more power out there BUT that's pretty frigin good. It's shooting over and over through my chrono (my basement is my shooting and training range currently! )....

279 FPS. That puts KE at 83 lbs and Momentum at .60. I know I can go to some faster bows and get more. I'm actually tempted to go for more if I find a bow I like shooting. I actually think the Injexions penetrate better than my other arrows even if the same weight, for various reasons, like above though, maybe I'm wrong. I like them a lot though. With 83 lbs of KE, .60 of momentum, you think I'm getting into the "realm" of getting closer to busting through some serious bone if needed? Pass through shots? I mean, there's has to be a point where you can shoot through anything (say if KE was 150 lbs and momentum was .95 or whatever). But, aside from maybe hitting the exact wrong spot on the shoulder, would most of you say I'm good for almost anything based on above figures????

 

[Rich77]

Your good up until that "one little spot" is hit.
Id focus now in tuning that thing to perfection, I was in the same boat as you a few yrs ago and was shooting a 550+ grain arrow at 260 fps until i hit that one little spot that it would take an OZ of lead to get through.
I went from a 125 grain 2 blade magnus that i killed well over 25 deer with and a super heavy arrow down to a 460ish grain arrow moving around 275 fps with a rage hypodermic and just moved my shots away from the shoulder and ive buried every arrow in the dirt so far.
My conclusion was that a small 2 blade or 4 blade, " i shot slick tricks for awhile" is great for a bone busting shot or anything through the shoulder.... on the same page that one really hard spot makes up about 10% of the kill zone on a broadside shot.
A small fixed blade to me is only beneficial on a shoulder shot. But a big expandable will lead to easier to recover deer hit anywhere but the shoulder wich make up 10× more area than the top of the shoulder.
Its all personal preference and i think you have done all the right homework to get away with 80% of your shoulder related / quartered shots. Ive only wounded one deer so far and he lived to see another day but I take my shooting very seriously and that one deer was enough to change my whole view of my equipment and shot placement.
I have a feeling you will be pulling arrows out of the dirt this fall. If a little bit is good. Alot ought to be better

 

[hoosierhunter]

Sligh

I shot the same FMJ's with muzzys and had almost identical speed as you. I'd estimate I shot 20 deer with those arrows. The only one I didn't pass thru was a spine shot buck. I did pass through his off shoulder on the follow up. I also passed through shoulders of two other bucks that were 4.5 or older. I mean the meat of the shoulder too. I was so confident in the setup I aimed to break the shoulder. It also allowed me to feel comfortable taking a quartering to shot. I'd estimate I passed through both shoulders on 5-7 of those deer.

I lost penetration when I went to axis and rage broad heads. I still passed through but the arrow sometimes stayed in as the deer ran away.(I know that's maximum transfer of energy but I'd rather find my arrow immediately instead of down the trail) Needless to say I don't shoot those anymore. The switch was to gain FPS on the string jumpers and longer shots.

Now, I bumped up to 80lb limbs and I'm shooting rocket sidewinders with the axis arrows. I shot 4 deer this year with that setup and passed through all four. I only hit one shoulder albeit on a nice doe that dressed at 131.

Btw, adding 10 lbs of draw weight and dropping 1.8 GPI on 28.5 arrows took me from 272 to 294FPS. It was basically 10fps per change.

 

[iabwhntr]

Sligh

I shot the same FMJ's with muzzys and had almost identical speed as you. I'd estimate I shot 20 deer with those arrows. The only one I didn't pass thru was a spine shot buck. I did pass through his off shoulder on the follow up. I also passed through shoulders of two other bucks that were 4.5 or older. I mean the meat of the shoulder too. I was so confident in the setup I aimed to break the shoulder. It also allowed me to feel comfortable taking a quartering to shot. I'd estimate I passed through both shoulders on 5-7 of those deer.

I lost penetration when I went to axis and rage broad heads. I still passed through but the arrow sometimes stayed in as the deer ran away.(I know that's maximum transfer of energy but I'd rather find my arrow immediately instead of down the trail) Needless to say I don't shoot those anymore. The switch was to gain FPS on the string jumpers and longer shots.

This pertains to another discussion in a thread about broad heads. I just wanted to comment that broad heads do not kill by energy transfer like bullets do.

Their mode of lethality (?) is different. We want bullets to expend all of their energy inside the target. This would give the most organ disruption/destruction capable by the caliber used. Remember that organs are tough and slippery and can move around a little in their respective areas. Bullets need to transfer as much energy as they can in order to actually damage the tissues and not just push them around

It is for this reason that broad heads need to be extremely sharp. If they're not, the organs just simply slide over the dull the blade with out being cut.

Broad heads kill by causing hemorrhaging. There is little energy transfer from arrow to target. The blades create a wound channel that the arrow passes through. Obviously the arrow needs enough energy to push the broad head deep enough to reach the vital areas but it's not dumping energy into that area.

 

[Boonie Rat]

You boys can debate this till the cows come home, but the simple truth of matter is "crap happens".
I'm an old slug gun shoulder buster from waaaay back. never had one get up. till 2 years ago. dropped him at 50 yds. flattened him. Remington areotip. set the gun down, pull out the blade and the cell and start walking to him. half way there look up from the cell and watch him stumble away, gun. 25 yards behind me. saw him 2 hours later chasing does. what a pair he has.
It's great that's you're trying to remove as many variables as possible, just remember, s*&^ happens.