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Broadhead discussion

Tmayer13

Tmayer13

Well-Known Member
As some of you saw on my harvest post I lost a deer this year and also had a crazy long track job on what appeared to a great shot. I will go over what head I was using and my past two seasons of experience with it and then I will say what I am shooting now. I think all should chime in and give the real world experiences(not what the Facebook machine says) and we can use this for anyone who is looking at making a change. We don't need to make this a debate at all but just sole experiences.

So last year I dove pretty hard into the heavy arrow, heavy FOC, single bevel broadhead Dr. Ashby thought process. I listened to several podcasts and watched tons of YouTube videos about his "research" on arrow flight and broadhead penetration. "The Archers Paradox". I'm sure several of you have also followed some of his "research" as well. So I will start off by saying that everything he preaches does NOT belong in Midwest style compound bow hunting for white-tailed deer. We simply do not have the need for that kind of penetration and frankly speed DOES matter when it comes to deer jumping the string. We also do not need setups that can break a Water Buffaloes scapula.

So last year I hunted with a 525 gr arrow with 19% FOC and Iron Will single bevel head with bleeders. The first deer I shot with this head was a 5.5 yr old buck at 8 yards. I made a perfect shot. Complete pass through. I watched the buck run approx 40 yards and stand there. I could see the hole in the 10 ring area. There deer then ran off another 40 yards roughly and died. Once I got out of my stand I looked at the arrow and it was soaked in good blood. Upon following the blood trail there just wasn't that much blood. It was enough to follow but not like what you would think with a great shot like I had. While gutting the animal I noticed that there was some great carnage on the inside of the animal. Lungs were destroyed, top of the heart removed but just not much blood on the outside of the animal.

I also had a buddy who is on this forum and I am hoping he chimes in with his thoughts as well. So he shot a few deer with the same head and basically had little to now blood. So I decided to switch from the Iron Will single bevel to the Iron Will Wide head. I then shot a doe with the wide. It looked like I definitely had more blood the issue is she gave up after about 10 yards and fell over so I wasn't able to actually get a good assessment of the broadhead. But because I did see more blood I decided that Iron Will Wides were going to be my head moving forward.

So we are now onto this season. The first buck I shot was at 26 yards broadside. No alerted to my presence at all. I watched the fletching bury right behind the shoulder. I thought I had once again smoked a deer with a perfect shot. After the deer initially ran off her stopped about 15 yards away. I could only see the top of the back and his head, so I could not see the shot hole. He stood there for roughly 30 seconds and then trotted off and I figured we walked away to die. I then saw him again work around behind me and once again thought he was going to die there. So I called my family and was facetiming my son when I looked back and watched him walk up hill away from me. I instantly got nervous. I knew where the shot was but something wasnt making sense here. I waited and called my buddy to let him what happened, told him the story and he figured I shot back into the liver. Although it did not make sense to me I thought well maybe he was right. I got down and went to the arrow. It was completely covered in blood but also stomach matter. The blood on the ground was full of stomach matter. Well not I was really confused. I saw where the arrow entered the animal. I have worked very hard in my archery skills to learn to stay present in the shot and know exactly what is going on with my shot. I know what I saw. Anyways, we gave him 6 hours. took up the trail which was very sparse and ended up bumping the buck about 100-150 yards away. Came back the next day and grid searched the farm with no luck. ( Yes I know the deer is dead, yes I should have brought in a dog...I completely regret not doing it but we are here to solely talk about broadheads). I am 100% convinced that what happened was as my arrow entered the body cavity my head was at the perfect angle that the arrow deflected off a rib and it went straight backwards into the stomach area thus not hitting the lungs/heart where I was in fact aiming.

After I got home that day I removed the Iron Will heads from my arrows went into my make shift archery room and screwed back on my Rage Trypans. For those that read my story in the harvest section, saw my shot which appeared to be perfect but only got one lung. But I also was able to retrieve the animal. For the time being I am planning to leave the Trypans on my arrows until I come up with something else.

So here is my opinion of what happened with the Iron Will heads. First off, the single bevel heads I think do such a great job of damage on the inside and the hole is so small ( 1 1/16" hole) that the insides literally clog the hole and don't allow the blood to come out. This is what I believe happened to my buck last year and my buddies deer as well.
With the Iron Will Wides I think a lot of the same happens, the internal matter just clogs the hole. And being that the head does not make a "hole" and just a "slit" the wound nearly seals over.
I will say that the Iron Will heads are the sharpest pieces of metal anything I have ever touched. Which I think could be a negative as well being that they do not create any "blunt force" trauma.

Moving on to the Trypans. I know many people do not like expendable's and that is fine but I will say that until last year I have used Rage heads since they came out 15 years ago or so and have NEVER lost a deer with them. I do also believe whole-heartedly that had I shot my first deer with the Rages I would've found him that same day. BUT because the Rage is only a 2 blade I just missed the heart of the second buck. So an argument can be made that if I was shooting a 3 blade head I would've hit the heart and my deer would've died within 50 yards.

These are just my real world experiences that I have come across the past 2 seasons. I don't know what the right answer is for a head. But I am hoping to continue doing some testing on broadheads this late season and seeing what I come up with. I will make reports as I have them.
Thanks for reading!
 
First, thank you to Tmayer13 for starting this very important REAL HUNTER FEEDBACK thread. Also, thank you for being so open and honest, especially when things did not go according to plan.

For me, I use to shoot a 3 blade up until 5 years ago. They were cheap and my bow hunting "knowledge" was poor, at best. My confidence to hit a deer's vitals was out to 20 - 30 yards due to inconsistent arrow flight (which now I know was me not properly tuning my bow/arrows). All that being said, I shot multiple does and bucks within my range and had decent blood trails with 100% recovery (all dead within 150 yards). But then I discovered the Rage "flappers"...

For the last 5 years I have solely shot Rage Hyperdermics. They shoot great out of my bow setup and my confidence range is now 60 yards. However, I have never shot a deer past 27 yards to date so consider that with my results. My previous 4 years of shooting does and bucks have all resulted in fantastic blood trails, destroyed vitals, 100% recovery (all under 60 yards)...BUT 0 PASS THROUGHS.

So last year I went down the rabbit hole of single bevel, heavy FOC, etc, etc., but just did not pull the trigger on the switch.

Then, this year happened. I decided to do some ground hunting on some public ground and was able to shoot a buck at 9 yards. However, I did not see a small "branch" (a little smaller than a pinkie finger) as I released the arrow. The arrow hit the branch, the "flappers" deployed early, and the arrow hit WAY low and a bit back. ***What happened next is gruesome so stop here if you would like***. As the buck turned to run, blood, guts, and fat chunks went flying. He ran about 15 yards then slowed to a badly hunched walk. He went another 50 yards through a cut cornfield and back into the woods. I followed the massive blood and gut trail (4 seperate piles of guts) up to the field then I backed out for 5 hours. Obviously, the next 5 hours was spent with me being extremely pissed at myself for not doing my part for a fast and clean kill. I went back in and he was dead 20 yards into the woods off the cornfield and VERY stiff. I am now confident he died pretty quick after I lost sight of him. The entry wound was about 5 inches long (due to early deployment and changed angle of the arrow), the belly was cut wide open, and the offside hind leg artery was cut in half.

All this being said, the Rage DID do its job... even when I did not. If I was shooting a different setup (single bevel, high FOC, etc.) maybe it cuts the brach and still hits perfect vitals. Or, it deflects hits the same spot as my shot and I struggle to recover a gut shot deer.

Honestly, I am very curious to hear about other setups/results as I am always willing to learn and change if it means quicker and cleaner kills.
 
I like this thread. The my experiences will the opposite of the first two posts. I was all aboard the big expandable train. I'd read and heard of horror stories but had never experienced them. I liked the big holes Rages made. A handful of years ago I had a Rage blade fail and it caused the arrow to deflect. Luckily I found the deer but it turned what should have been a 100 yard, 45 minute after the shot, blood trail into a half mile, 12 hours later body search. Thinking it was a potential fluke and not completely losing that deer I stuck with them but wanted to shoot a doe or 2 to regain the confidence. My next shot was a somewhat hard quartering away shot at around 20 yards. Upon release of the arrow the deer never moved and I saw the arrow enter behind the back rib like I had aimed. Only when she trotted off , she stopped about 80 yards away and I could see her offside and the exit hole was just as far back as the entrance. I was befuddled and actually thought I must be made a bad shot. I gave the deer adequate time and when I found her it confirmed another deflection. The deer was hard quartering away and entry was good but arrow took a hard left for some reason after contact and the entry and exit looked more like broadside.

I have since switched to QAD Exodus heads. Have been using them for the past 3 or 4 years and results have been phenomenal. My wife shoots them as well out of her light poundage bow and have had great results there as well. I like the 3 bladed head and the bloodtrails have been top notch.
 
If we were all fortunate enough to double lung every deer it would make zero difference. Dead deer within 100 yards every time. Obviously that is not reality.

I'll go way back..... I shot muzzy since I first started hunting. Grew up watching old Dan Fitzgerald videos. I think they were even VHS. Haha

As bow technology advanced and bows got faster I couldn't get them to fly well. I had no clue how to broadhead tune and likly didn't even know that was a thing.

So I switched to expandables. I shot rage for a single season. Saw major arrow deflection in a deer I shot terrible blade retention. Junk. Switched to NAP Killzone for a long time.

In 2018 I shot a deer in the shoulder with the NAP. Got enough penetration to get a single lung. Tracked the deer for a mile and 8 beds in the snow. Coyotes jumped the deer and I never recovered. It was found during shed season by a neighbor.

So then the, heavy arrow, fixed blade experiments start happening. I learned how to broadhead tune thus eliminating the reason I switched to expandables in the first place 2 decades ago.

I shot several does last year with the Iron Will and was on at least 8 tracks that they were used on. All the deer that were shot well were dead within 80 yards. However, on every single one of them the blood trail was terrible. In some cases I would say non existent. I shot one doe at 20 yards. 10 ring. She just stood there. I could not even see the entry hole. She went 5 yards and fell over dead. Basically no blood. That arrow setup penetrates like crazy. Arrows bury in ground. Arrows fly true and do not deflect. Ribs, scapula, no problem. But after all the lack of blood trails despite dead deer I was worried about marginal shot scenario and not being able to find blood. I ended last year by shooting two does with muzzys and having massive blood trails.

Going into this season I went with the ramcat fixed. I want to shoot a fixed head for bone situations and yet have a blood trail that my experience with the 2 blades have not provided. I do not have enough data to report conclusively on the ramcat. I've shot one deer. It went 50 yards and had blood all over it.
 
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I've been using German Kinetics for years. Two blade fixed head. Carbon steel.
Good blood trail.
When I first tested them, I shot the same head over and over, through both walls of a 50 gallon, steel drum.
No issues.

Good luck!
 
I've listened to all the podcasts as well and still have not been convinced I need to switch to the latest fad. I'm not hunting rhino, I'm hunting whitetail.
I've been using the 4 blade grim reapers since 2015. I've killed a pile of deer in that time. I have yet to not get a pass through with them. The blood trails are amazing. I see no reason to switch away from what works so well for me.
If I was shooting low poundage or short draw length, maybe they wouldn't be the ticket. All I know is that with my set up, I see zero reason to switch.
IMO, the biggest factor to not losing deer is having the discipline to wait for the broadside shot and keep the shots under 30 yards. Deer can and will move too much beyond that range. It doesn't matter how accurate you are when the deer isn't in the same place when the arrow gets there.
 
I am 100% on same page as Iowa BowHunter1983, started out YEARS ago and not knowing much about tuning my arrows and broadheads, ended up going to a NAP spitfire expandable which did improve down range arrow flight BUT… I shot my first P&Y buck at five yards off the ground and no pass through, limited blood and me scratching my head. As I started learning more kinetic energy matters TO SOME DEGREE. Not judging others as I live by “to each their own” but rear deploying mechanicals take a lot of kinetic energy and result in reduced penetration. The Rage technology does help a little with kinetic energy retention but they are still susceptible to other issues with mechanicals. I have found that mechanicals can deploy early for a number of reasons, the blades can break with bone hits and others. So as you can tell I use a small diameter fixed blade with a medium heavy arrow weight and FOC. This setup shot completely through a broadside moose breaking ribs in and out. TRADE OFF, as 1983 stated limited blood trails even if passthrough. I feel that two holes gives a better chance for blood trail. Next, I am not sure what OP style of Iron will head but I think those are the heads that allow blades to move. IMO the moving blade and IF the arrow was not flying true for ANY reason results in deflections. This is another issue I see often with mechanicals. Simulate your arrow and mechanical broadhead hitting anything at a quartering to or away angle, one blade can deploy before the others resulting in a whipping affect to the arrow which destroys arrow flight and kinetic energy/momentum. There are issues with all heads but I have landed on a small cut fixed blade knowing I am going to make a good shot MOST of the time and settling for a reduced blood trail but know deer is dead close with good shot. This decision takes out what I can’t control in issues with mechanicals early deploying or causing lose of penetration. Just my $.02.
 
I have zero experience with the single bevel heads or with the super heavy arrow set ups. I've always shot between 425 and 450 grain arrows. I do like a little more FOC so I use brass inserts. I'll be honest I'm not one to really switch or experiment with stuff so I probably don't have much to offer.

I shot muzzys for years until about 15+ years ago I was on a hog hunt in oklahoma and the guide at the ranch questioned me on using them. Said his experience with people shooting them on hogs was they would not leave much of a blood trail at all. Something about them plugging up exit hole. No idea. He handed me a slick trick and said he loved these and to try one, so I did. They flew great and killed a hog that weekend so when I got home I bought some more. Shot them side by side my old 3 blade muzzys with the longer farrell and they flew 10x better so I switched. Been using them ever sense. I've killed a lot of deer, one bear, and a few hogs with the slick tricks and for the most part have never been disappointed. With that said I'm pretty sure they cheapened them up a few years ago and they are not quite the same anymore. I had a couple blades break in half after going through the deer. I actually took pictures and sent it to them and they said the made a change to farrells and they were aware of the problem and were fixing it and sent me a new package. I did use up that last pack this year between me and my son so I bought a package of the exidus to try. Lot of guys I know shoot them and love them. I will be using them going forward and after shooting a doe with one a few weeks ago I have no doubt they will be as good and probably better than the slick tricks.

The rage and few other mechanicals have always peaked my interest I just can't bring myself to try. Don't like the thought of a chance of failure or losing that pass through. Even my son got a pass through on his first doe with the slick trick shooting 45 pounds.
 
I've not experimented much. First few years hunting I didn't know a thing and shot a few different heads, but i doubt my bow was tuned etc. Those first few years mean nothing to me now in regards to if a broadhead was good or not.

For probably 10 years or so now I have used rage. They fly great and I dont recall losing a deer yet with them. Have probably shot 15 plus deer with them that I can recall and all but two have been complete pass throughs. One of the non pass throughs was because the deer was quartered away pretty good and I aimed for back for the offside shoulder. There was also very little blood with that one. It still did the job. I believe the arrows went in and hit the offside shoulder. Haven't had a reason to try anything else. Most deer I have seen go down and it puts a massive hole in both sides often times with blood trail anyone could follow, if blood trailing is even needed. Been using the rage hyperdermics for the past several years, i believe they are a two inch cut.

I should add, that other than the one shot that was quartered away that i did not get a pass through and poor blood, i really try to wait for that perfect broadside or barely quartered away shot. That one shot was the only one that was not ideally broadside. I'm not taking frontal shots or quartered to shots etc. Also, all my shots have been under 22 yards. Most under 15.
 
Good discussion...this is one topic that draws different opinions and experiences to be sure. Kind of a scattershot answer here, but...

I started shooting crappy 3 blades way back when and didn't know enough to sharpen them in between shots. Let's just say that between the two issues, I had multiple sketchy blood trails and tracking jobs in my early days. FWIW, so did my fellow archery oriented friends as many of my early archery memories were endless, and often fruitless, blood searches. We were all ignorant. :)

I attended a seminar at a sport show now many years ago where the presenter preached, and demonstrated, the importance of sharp broadheads. It clicked then for me and I switched to re-sharpenable fixed blades, Zwickeys.

Killed quite a few deer with them, sometimes down within 5 yards, as a truly sharp broadhead does not alert the nervous system of the animal and cuts more tissue and does so in a manner that does NOT facilitate quick wound closure/coagulation, etc, etc. But, like others had said too, I sometimes had skimpy blood trails, even when using the "bleeder" blade style. Zwickey's got hard to find, etc, and I then shot 3 blade Muzzy's for years, with overall good results. I cannot think of a "lost" deer right off, but maybe I am forgetting one?? (FWIW, I was shooting heavy arrow, FOC, single blades way before it was a thing with the Zwickey's. :) )

Again, key, key, key...razor sharp edge. I would never shoot a broadhead twice, either sharpen it between shots or switch out to a new. As my boys got into archery hunting now roughly 15 years ago I started them on 3 blade Muzzy's, but some reason or the other one of them got bit by the "Rage bug" and switched to those. Well...after several dicey and/or unsuccessful recoveries over a few years, he "returned" to 3 blade fixed and as far as I can recall right off...not another deer was lost and most, maybe all, DRT. For us, a long blood trail is 80 yards and the only times I can recall a problem was when we followed a deer hit "back" too soon...not a broadhead issue IMO.

I don't want to start a fight, but I will never shoot a mechanical for a variety of reasons. Yes, in the right circumstance they leave a massive entry wound and associated blood trail, but lack of penetration and other variables are not for me and I have seen it/heard it way too many times. So, yes, sometimes they work out super...but too often they don't. (Ask a blood trailing dog owner about broadhead selection...I am pretty sure they will almost unanimously confirm this.)

Keep the conversation going, I am always interested in learning more about this.
 
IowaBowHunter1983 said:
Going into this season I went with the ramcat fixed. I want to shoot a fixed head for bone situations and yet have a blood trail that my experience with the 2 blades have not provided. I do not have enough data to report conclusively on the ramcat. I've shot one deer. It went 50 yards and had blood all over it.
Click to expand...
I forgot to add that after my expandable experiment I wanted something that had 3 blades as well and that was the major deciding factor. I wasn't confident in a fixed head that didn't have at least 3 blades. The best results that I have seen from the Exodus was this years buck took a step on the shot and wad quartered away hard. The head went through the back ham, all the way through the cavity and buried in the off-side shoulder. I don't think an expandable would have done that.
The most impressive was probably my wife's first archery buck shooting very low poundage. I made her error on being back rather than forward and she was back towards the liver and guts, we were low in the tree so both the entrance and exit were fairly high up. I didn't even check the arrow, just backed out for a few hours. Part of it may have been luck and clipping one of those arteries, but for a shot in that area, I was very impressed by the amount of blood along the trail. I was expecting a slow track with a cavity filling up first, but the blood was immediate and a steady walk for about 300 yards found the deer. I had shot plenty of deer with big cutting expandables and that was the best bloodtrail I had followed.
 
Not trying to be gruesome and this is not conclusive as it's only deer to date, but this was the 1.5" fixed 3 blade ramcat. 125 grains. FMJ arrows. I think around 600g total.

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All great comments to read. I also got burnt on mechanicals ONCE. We blame them at times but have to make a choice. Buddys love them. I found the muzzy trocars shoot like darts for my setup. They fly like field points. So shot placement is key. I have never taken a shot over 35 yards. Been bow hunting for 32 years. Us older guys dont like trailing deer for miles. I have been wondering and thinking about expandables again but i guess if it aint broke do mess with it.
 
I’ve shot- muzzy 3 blades in the “beginning”. As a kid. Lack of blood was a big problem.
Since being a young pup I’ve shot: 2 wasps (really like 3 blade drone). Multiple Rage. Grim reaper. Ramcat. Few others.
Tested dozens…. spent 1 winter in my basement doing my own tests…. Wood, bone, ballistic gel, etc etc. I just didn’t trust even the YouTube tests and my results were very different than other reviews & tests. Tested arrow combos as well (really like 4mm arrows).

IMHO- I’m still a big fan of the 1.5” 125 grain ramcats. Are they the absolute best head out there? Likely not…. But they sure are way better than almost every head I’ve shot. What I like about em… 3 blade vs 2. Big holes. 1.5” is a dang big 3 blade cut. fly like field points. No failure possibility. Penetrate like crazy. Great on bone. Zero energy deploying. What I don’t like about them…. Hmmmm…. Need a quiver that accepts them (plenty to choose from- no biggy). Maybe the blades bend a bit after shot. My only other downside is the thought that an expandable might do a little more damage in guts, etc ??? & yes, technically & reality is, u shoot these at insane ranges - I’m sure the “field point accuracy” will deviate some. <40 yards - I notice zero.

If I were to shoot an expandable, I’d actually shoot the Beast. 125’s. I looked those over intensely & seen results. IMHO- blows away rage, etc. No contest. The quality & blades & spring quality in them is insanely good. IMHO- after going over them- it’s like taking a rage & fixing every issue they could possibly have & building so far ahead quality-wise- no contest. My black & white assessment after seeing them & seeing what they do.

It seems like there’s the “top 20% of heads out there” that a guy should stick with. Dump the bottom 80%. & yes, I think there’s some real garbage out there for broadheads. Like, when I tested a pile of them- some were such a joke it’s insane they are on the market. Huge variance. Find top 20% of one that matches to your needs & u probably can end your broadhead research.
 
I urban hunt and have to shoot 5 does a year to get a buck tag the following year. I started with the g5 montecs & shot many deer because i could sharpen & resharpen. I usually either saw the deer drop or blood trails were an issue. Also my arrow would pass through and bury 8 to 10 inches into the ground.

I wanted to use more of that arrow energy up cutting a bigger hole but did not like the 2 blade expandables. I wanted a 3 blade expandable for better penetration. I went with the G5 T3(discontinued), then to the g5 deadmeat, and now the g5 deadmeat V2s.

I really like the deadmeat V2 they are almost too sharp, I've cut my self more than a few times. I only shoot 60lbs and get pass throughs as long as I don't hit the far shoulder. Blood trails are usually really good even on shots that are back. The entry & exit wounds are big.

G5 has replacement blades and I replace the blades after each deer, which helps on cost.

I would definitely reccomend the G5 deadmeat V2s. They have the positives of both expadables & fixed blades.


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Bill Winke used to shoot Rocket Broadheads. So I tried them . The Rocket Hammerhead is great for massive blood trails. I went on a good kill streak with them !

I still use them, even though Rocket is no longer selling broadheads. Might consider some other options—I appreciate the advice !
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