I would push back on that. It is amazing how little SOME USDA folks know about their own programs.
Hardwood11 is right, it doesn't pay a ton but it's better than zero.
Converting 160ac pasture to wildlife mecca
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Hardwood11 is right, it doesn't pay a ton but it's better than zero.
We were in a similar situation, purchasing 295 acres three years ago. Since this was our first round with habitat work, it was beneficial to bring in a consultant to draw up a plan. Super helpful to get a jumpstart on education, and confidence when it came to cutting 100y old trees, etc.
I can’t speak to your situation, but here are some things that we have done:
This year we converted 70 acres of pasture/hay into crop ground with a view of converting to CRP eventually. In the meantime this gives us a higher rent. Plus, this fall it kept the deer on our farm browsing the harvested beans until dark instead of just passing through the pasture onto the neighbors before dark.
We have been cutting hedge to sell as fence posts. Great for my boys to learn how to run a chainsaw.
Plus it is amazing how the deer hammer the new growth on the “mineral stumps”. And the downed tops are great for cover.
We used some old field management practices on 20 acres by spraying the cold season grasses (brome) and releasing the seed bank. This has been the quickest and cheapest win to improve the habitat for wildlife. HIGHLY recommend it.
We are also using EQIP monies to cover some of our timber work. We’ve been approved, but have yet to receive first payment. We’ll see how it goes.
This forum has been super helpful, as well as a couple other habitat forums and YouTube channels.
Good luck! Have fun and enjoy the journey!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I can’t speak to your situation, but here are some things that we have done:
This year we converted 70 acres of pasture/hay into crop ground with a view of converting to CRP eventually. In the meantime this gives us a higher rent. Plus, this fall it kept the deer on our farm browsing the harvested beans until dark instead of just passing through the pasture onto the neighbors before dark.
We have been cutting hedge to sell as fence posts. Great for my boys to learn how to run a chainsaw.
Plus it is amazing how the deer hammer the new growth on the “mineral stumps”. And the downed tops are great for cover. We used some old field management practices on 20 acres by spraying the cold season grasses (brome) and releasing the seed bank. This has been the quickest and cheapest win to improve the habitat for wildlife. HIGHLY recommend it.
We are also using EQIP monies to cover some of our timber work. We’ve been approved, but have yet to receive first payment. We’ll see how it goes.
This forum has been super helpful, as well as a couple other habitat forums and YouTube channels.
Good luck! Have fun and enjoy the journey!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
smithhunter1975
Active Member
I really like this idea if there is a good native seed bank! Would be great to do this in select areas for diversity pockets. My fear is the seed bank may just be crap i dont want (thistles, etc). Have others had good success doing this?
hillrunner
PMA Member
All I get if I kill vegetation and walk away is marestail, ditch weed, or foxtail.
smithhunter1975
Active Member
That is my fear, get a bunch of junk growing and then that junk goes to seed and have a real mess. I love this idea if it would work. Anxious to hear others input on this.
smithhunter1975
Active Member
I read through the grassland program today. Continued grazing is a requirement for the program which i do not want to do. Looks like that program is off the table.
This is where a plant community assessment would help to determine what is present, but held back. One year without grazing will tell a lot.
Tmayer13
Well-Known Member
Im not sure if I missed where you said this? But have you had a private lands biologist out there? If not I would call your local NRCS and make an appointment to have them come out. Then you can tell them your objectives and they can tell you about specific programs. There are SO many programs out there its unreal, my local office sent me a 600+ page document that has ALL of the programs listed in it, its simply amazing. The government sets aside money just for people like you and I to help the land, you may as well use it.
For instance: I am going to get paid to remove cedar trees, the get paid to burn the ground, then get paid to plant natives and also get paid to plant trees and shrubs.....Now these are one time payments but in your situation this could be beneficial on the parts of the farm that you wouldnt put into production.
Good Luck
For instance: I am going to get paid to remove cedar trees, the get paid to burn the ground, then get paid to plant natives and also get paid to plant trees and shrubs.....Now these are one time payments but in your situation this could be beneficial on the parts of the farm that you wouldnt put into production.
Good Luck
Understanding wanting to go program for income. First thing would be to prepare a 5 and 10 year plan for the entire parcel. Do carve out a parcel(s) for CRP but wildlife habitat and CRP can be different. Start planting trees/shrubs ASAP knowing will take 5 to 10 years to see good results. Second plan to access to hunting sites second. Then get dirty and start to develop areas of natural regeneration of native forbs and pollinators. Then designate area for government program(s), do check if program allows for deer stands and food plots.
smithhunter1975
Active Member
I have met with the dnr wildlife biologist at the pasture who is a big deer hunter so thinks our way. I have met with fsa in their office. I have not met with nrcs yet in that county, but did talk with the nrcs rep that i have gotten to know in my county. I plan to get the wildlife biologist back there soon to help me brainstorm and come up with a plan for different hunting habitat diversity. I agree with starting something ASAP because it will take a long time to develop and mature into some usable habitat. I really appreciate everyone’s thoughts and ideas!
smithhunter1975
Active Member
Hello all. Update on this project brewing. As mentioned previously this is a 160ac rolling hill pasture that is being taken out of cattle grazing. There is sizeable timber to the north and to the south of the pasture with rowcrop and hay to east and west. There is a small creek that runs north and south to the timbers. Very few trees in the pasture, mainly a few scattered along the creek bank. There are 5 ponds on the property with a couple of them being very nice size. We have settled on rowcrop farming about 45 acres of the flatter ridges to hopefully someday get them eligigible for CRP. We are enrolling 50ac into CP22 tree program which allows 180' on each side of creek bank and same width around the ponds.
I have met with the district forester to do a "tree plan". The plan is 600 trees per ac with 10' between rows and 7' on center. This obviously amounts to about 30,000 trees! Fortunately our soil favorable for most trees so we have a lot of flexibility in what we plant. This creek will form a travel corridor between the timbers to the north and south but I would also like to turn it into good bedding/browse. The tree plan lists the compatible trees which is nearly every type of tree I can dream up. I would like you experts to chime in on what tree species and proportions of each you'd do for this 50ac planting. The program stipulations are that I must use at least 6 different tree species, no species can exceed 20% of the total trees, and avoid having more than 10 of any one species in a consecutive row. I want nearly all of these trees to be most beneficial to deer/turkey but will also scatter maybe 100 very fast growing "junk trees" so that I can get a treestand in something as quickly as possible.
I am extremely excited about this project and am looking forward to your recommendations!
I have met with the district forester to do a "tree plan". The plan is 600 trees per ac with 10' between rows and 7' on center. This obviously amounts to about 30,000 trees! Fortunately our soil favorable for most trees so we have a lot of flexibility in what we plant. This creek will form a travel corridor between the timbers to the north and south but I would also like to turn it into good bedding/browse. The tree plan lists the compatible trees which is nearly every type of tree I can dream up. I would like you experts to chime in on what tree species and proportions of each you'd do for this 50ac planting. The program stipulations are that I must use at least 6 different tree species, no species can exceed 20% of the total trees, and avoid having more than 10 of any one species in a consecutive row. I want nearly all of these trees to be most beneficial to deer/turkey but will also scatter maybe 100 very fast growing "junk trees" so that I can get a treestand in something as quickly as possible.
I am extremely excited about this project and am looking forward to your recommendations!
Field of Dreams
Member
I wouldn't call myself an expert, but Ive worked on my own farms for the last 20+ years. Ive converted farm ground to cover using a wide variety of oaks in crp programs etc.. Currently Im taking a pasture similar to you and putting it to cover and this will consist of trees and switch grass.
The trees Id recommend for your project are the same Im using on my current farm. I have had really good luck with pin oak and it hold its leaves and provides great cover through the winter. Also would use shingle oak as they provide awesome cover also. Next oak Id say swamp white. So Id go Pin oak, Shingle oak, Swamp white for the oaks in equal numbers each. For me in my area I also like red cedar and Norway spruce. Other considerations are crab apple and maybe consider a soft maple to get your tree stands in. A few shrubs I really have had luck with are American plum and hazelnut. My first planting of oaks was back in 2006 and the Pin oaks are just about ready for tree stands! Also Id get started asap on a couple of fruit orchards. Here Id go with Keifer pear in a big way and also a variety of disease resistant apples.
You're starting a very rewarding project that will give you some frustration over the years. Takes time to get the habitat where you want it, but its so worth it in the end.
The trees Id recommend for your project are the same Im using on my current farm. I have had really good luck with pin oak and it hold its leaves and provides great cover through the winter. Also would use shingle oak as they provide awesome cover also. Next oak Id say swamp white. So Id go Pin oak, Shingle oak, Swamp white for the oaks in equal numbers each. For me in my area I also like red cedar and Norway spruce. Other considerations are crab apple and maybe consider a soft maple to get your tree stands in. A few shrubs I really have had luck with are American plum and hazelnut. My first planting of oaks was back in 2006 and the Pin oaks are just about ready for tree stands! Also Id get started asap on a couple of fruit orchards. Here Id go with Keifer pear in a big way and also a variety of disease resistant apples.
You're starting a very rewarding project that will give you some frustration over the years. Takes time to get the habitat where you want it, but its so worth it in the end.
smithhunter1975
Active Member
Thank you for this input!
Here’s my 2 cents on tree species…. Pick about “80%” the deer are going to mess with minimally. the 20% they do mess with…. tube them!! Or protect with some method…. PERIOD
heres examples of species (depends on soil) i
would plant so it actually creates a "forest". some of these u can rule out for preference, soil, not your goals. these are ones that will need less protection or possibly none if u plant
enough…. & IMO- u absolutely dont need all trees that "deer love" or produce deer food. most wont. but u want a "forest" - hence my list…. in no particular order….
ash
box elder
maple
Hybrid willow & hybrid poplar
Thornless locust if u could find em.
Mulberry
Sycamore
Nannyberry
Wild plum
Cedar sporadically mixed in.
Hackberry
Osage orange/hedge
Shagbark hickory
Ninebark
Serviceberry
Kentucky coffee
Elm
Protect - tube &/or cage…. Id have at a minimum a handful of these:
Swamp white oak
Any oaks lacking on your land (red, white, burr, etc).
Chinkapin oak
Pin oak
Persimmon
Chestnut (yes, I’d add these & if they won’t approve - I’d add on side). Chinese or 15/16th.
2-4 varieties of crabapple (can add any pear or apple seedlings & tube them)
If u can protect: hazelnut, dogwoods & shrubs deer hit hard……
I’d also get every shrub the iowa dnr offers…. Some get hammered by deer, some don’t. Get all of them IMO. Here’s one example of how I’d handle shrubs…. I’d get every type…. I’d put them at one end of the planting & either make a cheap high fence or double layer TALL electric fence around the shrubs. Could use this technique for all of the plantings deer destroy too. An example might be putting 2-10 of the acres into all the shrubs & trees deer hammer- lumping into one area and keeping deer out of THAT portion. Million ways to do this though.
Get MOST from iowa tree nursery. Find some wholesalers to get rest. Order way in advance. LINK:
No right or wrong here. Tweak your list as needed. I personally like 80% lower maintenance trees & 20% “deer trees” that need to be protected big time.
Good luck!
heres examples of species (depends on soil) i
would plant so it actually creates a "forest". some of these u can rule out for preference, soil, not your goals. these are ones that will need less protection or possibly none if u plant
enough…. & IMO- u absolutely dont need all trees that "deer love" or produce deer food. most wont. but u want a "forest" - hence my list…. in no particular order….
ash
box elder
maple
Hybrid willow & hybrid poplar
Thornless locust if u could find em.
Mulberry
Sycamore
Nannyberry
Wild plum
Cedar sporadically mixed in.
Hackberry
Osage orange/hedge
Shagbark hickory
Ninebark
Serviceberry
Kentucky coffee
Elm
Protect - tube &/or cage…. Id have at a minimum a handful of these:
Swamp white oak
Any oaks lacking on your land (red, white, burr, etc).
Chinkapin oak
Pin oak
Persimmon
Chestnut (yes, I’d add these & if they won’t approve - I’d add on side). Chinese or 15/16th.
2-4 varieties of crabapple (can add any pear or apple seedlings & tube them)
If u can protect: hazelnut, dogwoods & shrubs deer hit hard……
I’d also get every shrub the iowa dnr offers…. Some get hammered by deer, some don’t. Get all of them IMO. Here’s one example of how I’d handle shrubs…. I’d get every type…. I’d put them at one end of the planting & either make a cheap high fence or double layer TALL electric fence around the shrubs. Could use this technique for all of the plantings deer destroy too. An example might be putting 2-10 of the acres into all the shrubs & trees deer hammer- lumping into one area and keeping deer out of THAT portion. Million ways to do this though.
Get MOST from iowa tree nursery. Find some wholesalers to get rest. Order way in advance. LINK:
No right or wrong here. Tweak your list as needed. I personally like 80% lower maintenance trees & 20% “deer trees” that need to be protected big time.
Good luck!
smithhunter1975
Active Member
Thanks for all the recommendations! Tree tubes have to be very limited as I will be doing 30,000 trees and tubes/stakes are about $7/ea. No idea how the deer browse problem will be yet. This pasture had not historically had too many deer on it but it has always been grazed very low.
smithhunter1975
Active Member
Yes it will be a ton of work but nibbling off little bits at a time. Getting some food plots going this spring along with about 45ac in rowcrop to start the eligibility process for CRP. Next spring 50ac of trees and then hopefully start working on a phased EQIP for more trees, shrubs, and natives. Will be lots of maintenance as I go!
Field of Dreams
Member
Its all a labor of love! Enjoy the journey.
Ya- so how I might do it is this…. Even Just tube like 100-300 or whatever …. Whatever u feel comfy with. Now- there is often cost share on tubes in some cases. U might check into that.
Another method, like mentioned…. Go fence part of it. U could probably fence “.5 to 3 acres” for example, in maybe 1-2 days. & if u used: double layer tall electric, snow fence, old woven wire, etc- could be really cheap. Ton of ways to do that. If u willing to get creative to protect your more fragile but “valuable trees” - I do think there’s a way to do it cost effectively & even with some work, being very worth while. In full context…. It’s a few more days worth of work, it might get cost share to pay for it or cost a bit more BUT….. get it by a few years and it will reward you for a lifetime. **heck- u could start adding posts & fence now. When u got free time - cut some hedge or collect old fence material & start putting it in.
Deer #’s…. Of course they aren’t using the pasture as there’s nothing for them but…. What’s deer #’s like in the area? If they are medium to high…. U will be protecting some trees. They didn’t use it before but u will change that pretty quick. Which is a good thing. Just creates a bit more challenge.
**last…. Thinking out loud. 30,000 trees….. I’d have to see the lay out and where they planted BUT…. In that case…. U very well might get away with less protection. I usually wouldn’t say this BUT…. That’s so many & such a big area…. U might get away with them not hammering them bad. U might increase your tree density to compensate for some loss…. There is no perfect answer here & 1 way to do this. U might get away with less protection with that volume. Trees like “crabapple” for example & others that are delicate like that will still need tubes but some others might not if you truly do overwhelm them. I rarely say it but that’s lot of area where it’s possible.